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Did anyone read any of the Ultramarine Omnibus books or even a Horus Heresy book where they describe reloading, firing, and using bolters, and the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer?
Did anyone note the amount of litanies for firing/reloading/using a lasgun? In every single book where a Space Marine reloads their bolter, they just slam a mag in and rack the slide. No litanies at all. Only once do I remember a Space Marine saying anything to their equipment, and that was just a whisper to soothe the machine spirit. Once. Only once. Any idea why there's this huge discrepancy?

Space Marines are somewhat less credulous than Guard.

And even then, the fact that the primer says to do it doesn't actually mean that most Guardsmen will...

Also, most gaurdsmen don't get a bolter anyway.

The litanies are semi-optional anyway.

They're part of the manual for the weapon itself, but very few people actually follow manuals 100%.

Its for when there are problems.

I always imagine my Guardsmen praying and talking to their weapons every hour.

All it takes discipline I'd imagine. A good Guard regiment has discipline.

I'd rather think that it's omitted for brevity and the Marines actually do do it... in their heads, at least.

litanies iv'e found are more memory devices or techniques to remember the steps for using the weapons. Like those silly math acronyms your taught in school for what order to do a math equation in.

But instead its how to reload a weapon PROPERLY and not have it explode on you or jam or something.

Bolter wise... It depends on the Marine.

How the Bolter operates in general is like any current IRL firearm with magazine, reloading mechanism and so on. The litanies would follow most general Litanies of Reloading or whatever the term would be. They seem to be left out in books as to remove the stop in time and keep things moving.

Technically we could in theory manufacture a Bolter today but it would be possibly inefficient in terms of sheer overkill on infantry targets compared to how expensive the round would be, the technology is there, but no one has the budget nor will to make a fully functioning Bolter.

There are a few existing hand weapon that use the rocket-bullet technology with gyroscopical stabilisation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

 Engine of War wrote:
litanies iv'e found are more memory devices or techniques to remember the steps for using the weapons. Like those silly math acronyms your taught in school for what order to do a math equation in.

yeah I see it the same way. Mechwarrior has a faction similer to the mechanium and one of the novels had this great scene where this guy explains that ultimatly all the chants etc that the faction does at their religious ceremonies are actually ritualized descriptions of how to build, use and maintain technology and that if you actually listen and understand what those chants are saying. I've always iamgined the mechanium was a bit like that, many of the literurgies etc they use, and those they pass onto others are, often unknowningly to them, bits of knowledge preserves as scripture.

So you'd hear a buncha preists of mars chanting "E equals MC squuuaared" like a gregorian chant,

Funnily enough while there are tons of liturgies, they mention that sometimes it's better to sometimes just do it in your head rather then aloud. Like the infamous Liturgy of silence..Which has no words so basically shut up and do your job!

BrianDavion wrote:



yeah I see it the same way. Mechwarrior has a faction similer to the mechanium and one of the novels had this great scene where this guy explains that ultimatly all the chants etc that the faction does at their religious ceremonies are actually ritualized descriptions of how to build, use and maintain technology and that if you actually listen and understand what those chants are saying. I've always iamgined the mechanium was a bit like that, many of the literurgies etc they use, and those they pass onto others are, often unknowningly to them, bits of knowledge preserves as scripture.

So you'd hear a buncha preists of mars chanting "E equals MC squuuaared" like a gregorian chant,

Comstar. The followers of the word of blake, and maintainers of the Hyperpulse Generator (FTL comms) in the BT universe.
They were like that. Religious dogma covering tech know how.

 insaniak wrote:
Space Marines are somewhat less credulous than Guard.

And even then, the fact that the primer says to do it doesn't actually mean that most Guardsmen will...

As if Guardsmen live long enough to reload their weapons...

I imagine it's just ritualised weapon handling procedures aka

1.check the holy safe button'eth
2.inserteth thou holiest magazine into the holy weapon of thy emperor
3. action the holy incarnation of the emperors wrath
4. point the emperors wrath at the vulgar, vile and downright filthy xenos,heretic,traitor,mutant,dissident,usurper,arch-traitor,defeatist,cultist etc
5. turn the holy safety catch to death!
6. unleash the emperors wrath on holy orders, or at ones own will
7. die for the emperor!

something along those lines or translated to modern mlitry procedure

1. check safe is on
2. check magazine for ammunition then insert
3. check safe again, action the weapon
4. take up your target
5. safety off
6. fire at the target
7. die for the emperor!

Space marines need to do their work swift and efficient so they might not have time to do that

Peple rarely ever perform the litanies in the novels. Read the Gaunt's Ghosts books and it's the same thing- read the Eisenhorn novels and it's the same thing (he's even an Inquisitor!).

In the heat of the moment, even the most staunch Imperial probably disregards a lot of the dogma you're supposed to adhere too.

Most of the books are about Astartes, elite Guard or members of the inquisition. These people wouldn't need to think twice about an action they had performed countless times. Also the litanies would become pretty tiresome if they were mentioned every time someone reloaded. Not great for readers

IIRC in one of the Codices or supplements - possibly for the Imperial Fists - there's a mention of a captain who increases the effectiveness of the marines in his company by having them abbreviate the litany used when firing the bolter, thus increasing their rate of fire.

Which sounded a bit daft to me but hey ho...

 koooaei wrote:
There are a few existing hand weapon that use the rocket-bullet technology with gyroscopical stabilisation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

Yeah, but those weapons were a failure because they completely ditched the normal charge a bullet uses and were 100% rocket. This meant they left the barrel at very low speeds and were thus inaccurate.

A bolt round is basically a normal bullet + rocket. Not a bullet sized rocket like the Gyrojet was.

Litanies and prayers are just Gothic slang for "WORK DAMMIT".

 Inquisitor Gonzo wrote:
IIRC in one of the Codices or supplements - possibly for the Imperial Fists - there's a mention of a captain who increases the effectiveness of the marines in his company by having them abbreviate the litany used when firing the bolter, thus increasing their rate of fire.

Which sounded a bit daft to me but hey ho...

Well it makes perfect sense actually. If every Marine has to say "By the blessings of this bolter, I condemn these Heretics/Traitors/Xeno-scum to their fates!" When he starts a new magazine, it'll take long. If this captain instead taught them "Die motherfethers!" It'll speed things up immensely.

Well, the litanies actually are maintenance instructions... the AdMech's whole religious doctrine is made of user manuals. It's kind of the point. The pre-AdMech foresaw the fall of the Terran Empire, or whatever it was called, and re-encoded all their user manuals into an oral tradition to preserve them through the technological regression.

It's a funny mental image of like a billion guardsman all in a line chanting and firing their lasguns. Even noise marines would go deaf.

SirSertile wrote:
It's a funny mental image of like a billion guardsman all in a line chanting and firing their lasguns. Even noise marines would go deaf.

"This is my rifle! There are many like it-"
"By Slaanesh please stop I'm sorry! "

 Inquisitor Gonzo wrote:
IIRC in one of the Codices or supplements - possibly for the Imperial Fists - there's a mention of a captain who increases the effectiveness of the marines in his company by having them abbreviate the litany used when firing the bolter, thus increasing their rate of fire.

Sounds like he went green and started firing at bs2.

SirSertile wrote:
It's a funny mental image of like a billion guardsman all in a line chanting and firing their lasguns. Even noise marines would go deaf.

Lasers are silent.

 Wyzilla wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
It's a funny mental image of like a billion guardsman all in a line chanting and firing their lasguns. Even noise marines would go deaf.

Lasers are silent.

But Guardsmen aren't.

 Wyzilla wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
It's a funny mental image of like a billion guardsman all in a line chanting and firing their lasguns. Even noise marines would go deaf.

Lasers are silent.

Not in 40K they aren't. They are described as having a hiss-crack sound, partially due to super-heating the air they pass through and the collapse of that vacuum when the beam/bolt (lasguns are variably described as either) has passed through or ceased existing.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
It's a funny mental image of like a billion guardsman all in a line chanting and firing their lasguns. Even noise marines would go deaf.

Lasers are silent.

Not in 40K they aren't. They are described as having a hiss-crack sound, partially due to super-heating the air they pass through and the collapse of that vacuum when the beam/bolt (lasguns are variably described as either) has passed through or ceased existing.

Which makes perfect sense given that they fire small bursts of laser light rather than a continuous beam.

SirSertile wrote:
It's a funny mental image of like a billion guardsman all in a line chanting and firing their lasguns. Even noise marines would go deaf.

Now imagine them fighting against orks, who have their own sort of litany in the form of DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA.
The ground itself would be split asunder.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Lasers are silent.

Nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
It's a funny mental image of like a billion guardsman all in a line chanting and firing their lasguns. Even noise marines would go deaf.

Lasers are silent.

Not in 40K they aren't. They are described as having a hiss-crack sound, partially due to super-heating the air they pass through and the collapse of that vacuum when the beam/bolt (lasguns are variably described as either) has passed through or ceased existing.

Which makes perfect sense given that they fire small bursts of laser light rather than a continuous beam.

Basically, the sound is similar to that of thunder-- the rapid expansion of instantly-heated ionized air.

Except on a much smaller scale, of course.