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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 09:28:37
Subject: TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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purplefood wrote: Sigvatr wrote:Democracy is good and well, but I don't see the point of having a "vote" on a thing most people do not understand. Or want to, for that matter.
And hey, I am biased as hell on this one.
Yeah we know. You've got yours. That's all that really matters right?
No, it's a good thing for everyone. Or, rather, a huge part of everyone. TTIP forces countries to get closer to companies again instead of pretending to not like them in public. A lot of political parties, especially German ones, want to use companies as a scapegoat for pretty much everything while at the same time, they are well aware of them being the one institution that actually holds everything together. With TTIP in place, they better double-check their attitude since power is shifted back where it belongs.
A good example for the aforementioned problem has been the introduction of minimum wages in Germany. Which isn't a bad idea at all. German politicians, however, thought that it was a genius idea to do their own thing and openly refuse the economy's offer to get together and find a compromise. Minimum wages were introduced and everyone was like "Yeah! Minimum wages! That's awesome and fair for everyone!". You don't bite the hand that feeds you. In return, at a lot of places and as an answer to this, people were simply fired and any bonus payments have been removed resulting in people now, in some places, gaining LESS than before. And what happens now? The very same politicians are now crawling back and want to strike deals. And those deals will be better for the economy's side.
Politics need to realize that they need to cooperate with the economy or else any attempt is doomed to fail. TTIP is a very important step in giving the economy the power back and forces politicians to wake up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 14:41:49
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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I'm confused... why would TTIP threaten European power / democracy?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 14:48:17
Subject: TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Con-TTIP claim that the ability for companies to sue individual countries would lead to them undermining a state's integrity.
How much sense that makes...that's up to each on his own to decide.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 14:54:52
Subject: TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Sigvatr wrote:
No, it's a good thing for everyone. Or, rather, a huge part of everyone. TTIP forces countries to get closer to companies again instead of pretending to not like them in public. A lot of political parties, especially German ones, want to use companies as a scapegoat for pretty much everything while at the same time, they are well aware of them being the one institution that actually holds everything together. With TTIP in place, they better double-check their attitude since power is shifted back where it belongs.
A good example for the aforementioned problem has been the introduction of minimum wages in Germany. Which isn't a bad idea at all. German politicians, however, thought that it was a genius idea to do their own thing and openly refuse the economy's offer to get together and find a compromise. Minimum wages were introduced and everyone was like "Yeah! Minimum wages! That's awesome and fair for everyone!". You don't bite the hand that feeds you. In return, at a lot of places and as an answer to this, people were simply fired and any bonus payments have been removed resulting in people now, in some places, gaining LESS than before. And what happens now? The very same politicians are now crawling back and want to strike deals. And those deals will be better for the economy's side.
Politics need to realize that they need to cooperate with the economy or else any attempt is doomed to fail. TTIP is a very important step in giving the economy the power back and forces politicians to wake up.
I disagree with you quite a bit here.... Sure, that's how things may have gone in Germany/Europe, but if you want to see an example of corporations/ the "economy" having too much power over government, just look at the US. When companies both large and small can change policies at the mere threat of something negative happening, that is generally bad.
Of course, this CAN sometimes be a good thing. For instance, look at Magpul and Colorado. Ruger USA and Maryland, Springfield Armories and Massachusetts, etc.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 15:48:09
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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whembly wrote:I'm confused... why would TTIP threaten European power / democracy?
Because, amongst other things, the TTIP wants to give the corporations the right to sue governments if any government decision impacts their profits.
But like it was stated several times, both the French and the German governments are against it so the chances of it ever being approved are slim and none, respectively.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 15:54:11
Subject: TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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It's nice to see some Governments displaying something akin to sense.
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Prestor Jon wrote:Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 15:58:33
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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PhantomViper wrote: whembly wrote:I'm confused... why would TTIP threaten European power / democracy?
Because, amongst other things, the TTIP wants to give the corporations the right to sue governments if any government decision impacts their profits.
But like it was stated several times, both the French and the German governments are against it so the chances of it ever being approved are slim and none, respectively.
So... wait... companies can't sue "the people" (ie, the government?)
O.o
Well... that's different.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 16:05:19
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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whembly wrote:PhantomViper wrote: whembly wrote:I'm confused... why would TTIP threaten European power / democracy?
Because, amongst other things, the TTIP wants to give the corporations the right to sue governments if any government decision impacts their profits.
But like it was stated several times, both the French and the German governments are against it so the chances of it ever being approved are slim and none, respectively.
So... wait... companies can't sue "the people" (ie, the government?)
O.o
Well... that's different.
No, companies sue governments in Europe all the time already, what the TTIP proposes is an broadening of the conditions in which the companies can sue the government.
For example, if the TTIP is passed and a country passes a new law lowering the maximum emission values of car exhausts, the car makers could sue the government because they would have lower profits due to the costs of implementing the new law. The same thing for pharmaceutical companies with new drug regulations, food companies if some additive or genetic modification was banned, that sort of thing.
And not only that but these lawsuits would not be conducted in American or European courts of law, but in special "private" courts presided over by panels of international corporate lawyers that would exist outside any type of jurisdiction and would be completely unaccountable to anyone...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/13 16:31:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/13 17:16:52
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!
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PhantomViper wrote:
No, companies sue governments in Europe all the time already, what the TTIP proposes is an broadening of the conditions in which the companies can sue the government.
For example, if the TTIP is passed and a country passes a new law lowering the maximum emission values of car exhausts, the car makers could sue the government because they would have lower profits due to the costs of implementing the new law. The same thing for pharmaceutical companies with new drug regulations, food companies if some additive or genetic modification was banned, that sort of thing.
And not only that but these lawsuits would not be conducted in American or European courts of law, but in special "private" courts presided over by panels of international corporate lawyers that would exist outside any type of jurisdiction and would be completely unaccountable to anyone...
Anyone else getting a real strong Shadowrun vibe from this proposed law?
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Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/14 09:13:55
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
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Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men.
Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/14 09:21:56
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Courageous Grand Master
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whembly wrote:I'm confused... why would TTIP threaten European power / democracy?
To give an example, there are things present in certain foodstuffs on sale in America, that are banned in the EU: GM food, hormones, certain ingredients etc etc
You see the problem, already?
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"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/14 11:04:03
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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whembly wrote:I'm confused... why would TTIP threaten European power / democracy?
Europeans are terribly afraid of our utter dominance of tasty processed "foods." Someone also allegedly threatened France with something called "Tex Mex droppedfrom B17s flown by wiener dog air crews." I have no knowledge of who that could be.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/14 11:05:22
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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My sources say that guy's a real wiener.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/04 09:13:29
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2014/10/17/latest-tpp-leak-shows-even-harsher-copyright-rules/
Wikileaks has released a new draft of the intellectual property chapter of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement, revealing that the US is still pushing for draconian measures on copyright infringement.
“By publishing this text we allow the public to engage in issues that will have such a fundamental impact on their lives,” says Wikileaks editor in chief Julian Assange.
The US has all along wished to introduce features of the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), such as compelling ISPs to alert customers who are accused of illegal downloads and, possibly, take the infringing material down. If they failed to do so, they would themselves be liable for any copyright infringement by their customers.
But the latest draft goes even further: the US wants to see these rules covering not just ISPs, but anyone providing internet services. And, as Alberto Cerda of Georgetown University Law Center points out to TorrentFreak, this means that coffee shops could potentially be held liable for copyright infringement by their customers.
Meanwhile, the copyright itself could be enforced for longer. While the previously-leaked draft showed that some countries were proposing flexibility on copyright terms, it seems that all are now agreed that there should be a universal minimum term, whether life-plus-50-years, life-plus-70 or life-plus-100.
The US is also calling for criminal sanctions for copyright infringement, even where the infringement isn’t being carried out for commercial reasons.
“If the US gets its way, then criminal penalties will apply even against users who were not seeking financial gain from sharing or making available copyrighted works, such as fans and archivists,” write Jeremy Malcolm and Maira Sutton of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). “Such a broad definition is ripe for abuse.”
Indeed, a similar provision in a free trade agreement between Columbia and the US led to copyright laws that saw a Columbian graduate student arrested for posting another student’s academic paper online without permission.
But while the last leaked draft of the TPP, dated November 2013, showed strong international opposition to this criminalization plan, Canada now seems to be the only serious hold-out.
This may, suggests James Love of Knowledge Ecology International, be because this new draft gives some countries extra time to implement the agreement – meaning that current governments won’t necessarily have to carry the can for their decisions.
“Developing countries are being asked to accept very restrictive standards for intellectual property in return for transition periods that defer the harm until current governments are now longer held accountable,” he says. “This will be a short-term benefit in exchange for a long term harm.”
The draft calls for countries to introduce criminal penalties for unauthorised access to, misappropriation of or disclosure of trade secrets “by any person using a computer system”. This would apply where the actions led to commercial advantage or financial gain; where they were directed by “a foreign economic entity”; or where they were detrimental to a country’s economic interests, international relations, national defence or national security.
These are very broad provisions, and don’t allow any exceptions in the public interest, such as journalism or whistleblowing.
“This text goes far beyond existing trade secrets law, which in the United States and other common law countries is usually a matter for the civil not the criminal courts,” write Malcolm and Sutton of the EFF.
“No public interest exception, such as for journalism, is provided. In practice, this could obligate countries into enacting a draconian anti-hacking law much like the Criminal Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) that was used to prosecute Aaron Swartz.”
These changes matter all the more because of the inclusion in the trade agreement of so-called Investor -State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) – a system that allows corporations to sue governments for decisions that result in a loss of profits. UN figures uncovered by the Independent newspaper recently revealed that US companies have already made billions of dollars from suing foreign governments under similar ISDS agreements.
The good news is that the US appears to be fairly isolated in some of its more extreme requests, with Canada pushing back hard: indeed, according to Wikileaks, Canada has registered its opposition to proposals 56 times, more than any other country. Canada’s recently enacted its own copyright legislation, and is working hard to keep it: and while it now looks like the only country still putting up much of a fight against the US, this latest leak could work in its favor.
The next round of negotiations is due to take place in Australia at the end of this month.
http://livefreelivenatural.com/wikileaks-releases-next-chapter-tpp-trans-pacific-partnership/
On Thursday, October 16th Wikileaks released a second chapter from the Trans-Pacific Partnership documents regarding Intellectual Property. The last time they released leaked documents about Intellectual Property from the TPP was November 2013.
The press release from WikiLeaks says:
“The 77-page, 30,000-word document is a working document from the negotiations in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, dated 16 May 2014, and includes negotiator’s notes and all country positions from that period in bracketed text. Although there have been a couple of additional rounds of talks since this text, little has changed in them and it is clear that the negotiations are stalling and that the issues raised in this document will be very much on the table in Australia this month.
The last time the public got access to the TPP IP Chapter draft text was in November 2013 when WikiLeaks published the 30 August 2013 bracketed text. Since that point, some controversial and damaging areas have had little change; issues surrounding digital rights have moved little. However, there are significant industry-favouring additions within the areas of pharmaceuticals and patents. These additions are likely to affect access to important medicines such as cancer drugs and will also weaken the requirements needed to patent genes in plants, which will impact small farmers and boost the dominance of large agricultural corporations like Monsanto.
Nevertheless, some areas that were highlighted after WikiLeaks’ last IP Chapter release have seen alterations that reflect the controversy; surgical method patents have been removed from the text. Doctors’ groups said this was vitally important for allowing doctors to engage in medical procedures without fear of a lawsuit for providing the best care for their patients. Opposition is increasing to remove the provision proposed by the US and Japan that would require granting of patents for new drugs that are slightly altered from a previous patented one (evergreening), a technique by the pharmaceutical industry to prolong market monopoly.
The new WikiLeaks release of the May 2014 TPP IP text also has previously unseen addendums, including a new proposal for different treatment for developing countries, with varying transition periods for the text to take force. Whilst this can be viewed as an attempt to ease the onus of this harsh treaty on these countries, our diplomatic sources say it is a stalling tactic. The negative proposals within the agreement would still have to come into force in those countries, while the governments that brought them in would have changed.
Despite the United States wanting to push to a resolution within the TPP last year, this bracketed text shows there is still huge opposition and disagreement throughout the text. At this critical moment the negotiations have now stalled, and developing countries are giving greater resistance. Despite the huge lobbying efforts, and many favourable proposals for big pharmaceutical companies, they are not getting entirely what they wish for either.”
Julian Assange said:
The lack of movement within the TPP IP Chapter shows that this only stands to harm people, and no one is satisfied. This clearly demonstrates that such an all-encompassing and divisive trade agreement is too damaging to be brought into force. The TPP should stop now.
Current TPP negotiation member states are the United States, Japan, Mexico, Canada, Australia, Malaysia, Chile, Singapore, Peru, Vietnam, New Zealand and Brunei. “, the press release continued.
In addition Julian Assange had this to say:
“The selective secrecy surrounding the TPP negotiations, which has let in a few cashed-up megacorps but excluded everyone else, reveals a telling fear of public scrutiny. By publishing this text we allow the public to engage in issues that will have such a fundamental impact on their lives.”
The Full Chapter concerning Intellectual Property leaked from the TPP negotiations can be viewed here.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/16 22:32:00
Subject: Re:TTIP - Looming threat to European national power & democracy.
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
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TTIP: Cameron pledges support for EU-US trade deal
David Cameron has pledged to put "rocket boosters" behind plans for an EU-US free trade deal.
The UK prime minister said EU and US leaders had met and all agreed the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) "is a deal we want".
Speaking at the G20 summit, he said arguments against TTIP were "weak" and fears over the NHS were "nonsense".
Many opponents are concerned about TTIP giving firms power to sue governments if they are hit by policy changes.
Len McCluskey, general secretary of the Unite union, has called for the NHS to be excluded from the deal.
The EU is currently analysing responses to a consultation on a controversial element of TTIP which would allow foreign investors to go to an international tribunal for compensation if a government breaks the rules in a way that harms the company's interests.
'No threat'
Mr Cameron said he "sensed an enthusiasm" from EU leaders and US President Barack Obama during a meeting in Brisbane earlier, and was now "hopeful of progress" on TTIP.
The UK prime minister said the deal could be supported by the "classic free trade argument for growth and jobs and investment".
"The opportunities for Britain of trading more with the United States of America are clear," he said.
Protests took place last month in the UK and other countries including Germany and France
Critics say TTIP's powers for companies to sue governments are anti-democratic
Speaking about concerns over disputes between companies and countries, Mr Cameron said: "We've signed trade deal after trade deal and it's never been a problem in the past."
On the NHS, he said: "Some people argue in some way this could damage the NHS. I think that is nonsense. It's our National Health Service. It's in the public sector, it will stay in the public sector. That's not going to change. It will remain free at the point of use.
"There's no threat, I believe, from TTIP to the National Health Service and we should just knock that on the head as an empty threat."
Anti-TTIP protests were held last month in the UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain.
At their annual conference in September, delegates from UK unions unanimously backed a motion opposing TTIP.
Many unions focused on the potential impact on the NHS, saying TTIP would allow private firms to sue the government if it chose to return privately run services to the public sector.
Unite general secretary Len McCluskey accused David Cameron of "riding roughshod" over objections and "trying to brush the threat of TTIP under the carpet".
He asked: "If it is not a threat then why doesn't David Cameron just make an explicit commitment to use his veto in Europe to get the NHS out TTIP?"
He drew comparisons with steps taken by the French government to exempt their film industry from the agreement.
Food safety fears
One aim of the negotiations is to reduce the costs to business of complying with regulations.
Critics say this could lead to lower standards of protection for workers, consumers and the environment, with food safety a particular concern for some.
But Mr Cameron said TTIP would give the EU and the US a joint interest in areas like food and environmental standards
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Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men.
Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
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