Grey Knight Chaplain

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**Grey Templar**

Yet another codex, and we still haven't seen any rules for a GK chaplain despite them being mentioned in hushed whispers as ultimate badasses.

Grey Knight Chaplain 130 pts

WS5
BS4
S4
T4
W2
I4
A3
LD10
SV 2+

Wargear: Terminator Armor, Rozarius(4+ invuln), Storm Bolter, Frag, Krak, and Psyk-out Grenades.

Nemesis Cruxius: All Chaplains carry the Cruxius Arcanum as the sigil of their office, and a potent weapon on the battlefield. Grey Knight Chaplains carry even more fearsome versions than their counterparts in other chapters.

Nemesis Cruxius: Str: +2, AP2, Type: melee, Concussive, Force, Daemonbane

Special Rules: The Aegis, Fearless, Independant Character, Preferred Enemy(Daemons), Psyker(ML1), Purity of Spirit, Adamantium Will,

Litenies of Banishment: Models with the Daemon special rule within 6" of this model must reroll successful Invulnerable saves.

Masters of Sanctity: For each HQ choice in your Detachment(not including other Chaplains) you can include a Grey Knight Chaplain. These do not use up a slot in the Force Organization chart.

Psyker: Grey Knight Chaplains know the Banishment and Purge Soul psychic powers from the Daemonology(Sanctic) discipline.

Options: May take items from the Melee Weapons, Special Issue Wargear, and/or Relics of Titan lists.

**AlmightyWalrus**

A Crozius is a Power Maul, should a Nemesis Crozius not be a Force Maul with Daemonbane then?

**BrianDavion**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
A Crozius is a Power Maul, should a Nemesis Crozius not be a Force Maul with Daemonbane then?

agreed, definatly should be a deamon bane force maul.

and that stat block is IMHO too good. and the point cost is rediculasly good. it's priced the same as a terminator chappy despite being better.

I think a GK Chaplain should have the following

Points Cost: 130 points

WS: 5 BS:4 S:4 T: 4 W:2 I: 4 A: 2 LD: 10 SV: 2+

Wargear:
Terminator Armor
Rosarious
Nemisis Force Crozarious (force maul with deamon bane)
Stormbolter
Frag Kark and Psyk out grenades

Special rules:
Aegis
Purity of Spirit
Psyker (Mastery Level 1)
Independant Character
Zelot
Prefered Enemy: Deamons

Psyker: Grey Knight Chaplains know the Banishment and Purge Soul psychic powers from the Daemonology(Sanctic) discipline.
Options: May take items from the Melee Weapons, Special Issue Wargear, and/or Relics of Titan lists.

this seems about right. there's no reason a GK chaplain should be massivly better then a standard Marine one.

**Grey Templar**

I kinda wanted the Nemesis Cruxius to be a little better than simply a Power Maul + Force and Daemonbane. I think AP2 with a little extra cost isn't too much to ask.

But yeah, I probably did put the point cost too low.

**AnomanderRake**

Grey Templar wrote:
I kinda wanted the Nemesis Cruxius to be a little better than simply a Power Maul + Force and Daemonbane. I think AP2 with a little extra cost isn't too much to ask.

But yeah, I probably did put the point cost too low.

AP2 at initiative is the province of Monstrous Creatures or rare and special relics (and Incubi), not any old sod who happens to get to a leadership position in the Grey Knights. I'd just hand him a Warding Stave and call it done if I were you.

**Rurik**

Great rules... I'm wondering why GW is so silly on new releases.

**Experiment 626**

BrianDavion wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
A Crozius is a Power Maul, should a Nemesis Crozius not be a Force Maul with Daemonbane then?

agreed, definatly should be a deamon bane force maul.

and that stat block is IMHO too good. and the point cost is rediculasly good. it's priced the same as a terminator chappy despite being better.

I think a GK Chaplain should have the following

Points Cost: 130 points

WS: 5 BS:4 S:4 T: 4 W:2 I: 4 A: 2 LD: 10 SV: 2+

Wargear:
Terminator Armor
Rosarious
Nemisis Force Crozarious (force maul with deamon bane)
Stormbolter
Frag Kark and Psyk out grenades

Special rules:
Aegis
Purity of Spirit
Psyker (Mastery Level 1)
Independant Character
Zelot
Prefered Enemy: Deamons

Psyker: Grey Knight Chaplains know the Banishment and Purge Soul psychic powers from the Daemonology(Sanctic) discipline.
Options: May take items from the Melee Weapons, Special Issue Wargear, and/or Relics of Titan lists.

this seems about right. there's no reason a GK chaplain should be massivly better then a standard Marine one.

The only things I would tinker with would be;
1. No ability to swap out the Crozius. It's his badge of office after all.
For weapon upgrades, just treat him like the Libby in that he can swap his Storm Bolter for a Combi-weapon.

2. Add the ability to upgrade to a Reclusiarch and gain Mastery Lv2 + the additional attack & wound for +35pts.
Swap his powers around to Banishment, Hammerhand, Sanctuary.

**DogOfWar**

To somewhat combine the suggestions above:

Grey Knight Chaplain - (110)
WS:5 BS:4 S:4 T:4 W:2 I:4 A:2 Ld:10 Sv:3+
Grey Knight Reclusiarch - (145)
WS:5 BS:4 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:4 A:3 Ld:10 Sv:2+

Wargear
- Power Armour (Chaplain only)
- Artificier Armour (Reclusiarch only)
- Bolt Pistol
- Crozius Daemonicum
- Frag Grenades
- Krak Grenades
- Rosarius

Special Rules
- The Aegis (re-roll results of 1 on DtW tests)
- And They Shall Know No Fear
- Independent Character
- Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
- Psyker (Mastery Level 1) (Chaplain only)
- Psyker (Mastery Level 2) (Reclusiarch only)
- Purity of Spirit (Only suffer perils of the warp on double 6s when casting Daemonology: Sanctic powers)
- Adamantium Will (+1 to DtW rolls)
- Zealot (pass all fear, pinning, morale checks, and regroup tests. Re-roll all to-hit rolls in first round of close combat)

Crozius Daemonicum:The Crozius Daemonicum is a Grey Knight Chaplain's rod of office. It is the symbol of his authority, his weapon
of righteous judgement, and anathema to Daemonkind all in one. Each crozius is an ancient relic, passed down from Chaplain to Chaplain
and bearing each successive warrior's legend in etched script about its haft. A psychic conduit for his furious hatred towards the enemies of
the Imperium, the Crozius Daemonicum is a priceless artifact, capable of cutting through even traitor Astartes armour with ease.

Range -, S +2, AP 3, Melee, Concussive, Daemonbane, Force

PSYKER:
Grey Knight Chaplains know the Banishment, Sanctuary, and Purge Soul powers from the Daemonology (Sanctic) discipline.

Options:
- May replace bolt pistol with one of the following:
- Storm Bolter (free)
- A Grey Knight Chaplain or Reclusiarch may take items from the Special Issue Wargear and/or Relics of Titan lists.
- A Grey Knight Chaplain may replace his power armour and bolt pistol with Terminator armour and a storm bolter (30 points)
- A Grey Knight Reclusiarch may replace his Artificer armour and bolt pistol with Terminator armour and a storm bolter (15 points)
----- A Grey Knight Chaplain or Reclusiarch in Terminator armour may replace his storm bolter with
--------- a combi-flamer, -melta, or -plasma (10 pts)
--------- an incinerator (10 pts)
----- A Grey Knight Chaplain or Reclusiarch in Terminator armour may take items from the Special Issue Wargear and/or Relics of Titan lists.

So we have an identical statline to a Space Marine Chaplain (90 points) with the following additions:

The Aegis
ATSKNF (instead of Chapter Tactics)
Purity of Spirit
Adamantium Will
Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Psyker ML1 with 3 powers
AP3 Crozius with Daemonbane and Force

I think that makes sense at 20 points (for a 2 wound model with a 3+/4++) but it could be 5-10 points more perhaps.

GK Chaplain - 110
GK Chaplain in TDA - 140
GK Reclusiarch - 145
GK Reclusiarch in TDA - 160

(Compared to GK Reclusiarch in TDA)
GK Brother Captain in TDA - 150 (+1WS, +1BS, +1I)
GK Grand Master in TDA - 185 (+1WS, +1BS, +1I, +1A, +1 ML)

GK Librarian in TDA - 110 (Same statline as Chaplain, AP4 force weapon, Psychic hood, ML2)

My questions:

Points costs in general? (Especially for TDA, considering the Cuirass of Sacrifice is only 15 pts)
Weapon choices? (Incinerator seems very Chaplain-esque, but the other heavies not so much)
AP3 or AP4 on the Crozius Daemonicum?
Psychic Powers? (Everyone gets Banishment, Sancturary is a nice buff for the Rozarius, and Purge Soul seems Chaplain-esque. Another power for the Reclusiarch? Allow him to generate powers?)

DoW

**Experiment 626**

I think it's a solid balancing act that Chaplains in general are limited to their Corzius/power maul stats and thus, he *should* be ap4. Giving him ap3 or better simply means he'll replace standard 'fighty' characters as the chappy brings it all - close combat beatstick + psy powers + what is effectively 'Hatred +1'

Why bother with a Bro Captain or Grandmaster at this point? The Chappy can take Reclusiarch for near similar combat stats. He'll give out re-rolls to-hit which is a godly ability for assault units. He brings guaranteed Sanctuary. If you want those Telepathy powers, there's always Libbies anyways who are better outright casters.
The ap4 means that the Chaplain fights decently in combat, but leaves the true beatstick role open to the Grandmasters/Bro Captains, thus giving them relevance. (Libbies are better kept with their Warding Staff, as they tend become the ultimate anti-psyker unit!)

Besides, it's not like S6/ap4 is somehow useless, and Chaplains are overall meant to be a support unit.

**BrianDavion**

possiably add clensing flame there? chaplains could be fluffed as coming from the purest of the purifiers? that said I agree with experiment626, keep his weapon at AP 4.

**RAWRAIrobblerobble**

Experiment 626 wrote:
I think it's a solid balancing act that Chaplains in general are limited to their Corzius/power maul stats and thus, he *should* be ap4. Giving him ap3 or better simply means he'll replace standard 'fighty' characters as the chappy brings it all - close combat beatstick + psy powers + what is effectively 'Hatred +1'

Why bother with a Bro Captain or Grandmaster at this point?

The proposed rules section is often, though not exclusively, used to add "Guy+1" to a codex. For example, you won't see anyone who plays Grey Knight suggesting they balance their troop choices by making Terminators cost 7 points a model more so they're only slightly better than SM Termies. The point cost on proposed guys is often ludicrously low compared to a standard build. Take the Space Marine special characters. They generally cost MORE than the standard build in exchange for some specific buff, but they are not able to take ANY equipment options - so no storm shields or relics on your Khan biker, etc.

**ClockworkZion**

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
I think it's a solid balancing act that Chaplains in general are limited to their Corzius/power maul stats and thus, he *should* be ap4. Giving him ap3 or better simply means he'll replace standard 'fighty' characters as the chappy brings it all - close combat beatstick + psy powers + what is effectively 'Hatred +1'

Why bother with a Bro Captain or Grandmaster at this point?

The proposed rules section is often, though not exclusively, used to add "Guy+1" to a codex. For example, you won't see anyone who plays Grey Knight suggesting they balance their troop choices by making Terminators cost 7 points a model more so they're only slightly better than SM Termies. The point cost on proposed guys is often ludicrously low compared to a standard build. Take the Space Marine special characters. They generally cost MORE than the standard build in exchange for some specific buff, but they are not able to take ANY equipment options - so no storm shields or relics on your Khan biker, etc.

Making Terminators more expensive doesn't fix Grey Knights (as regular Termis cost too much as it is), it just makes a reasonable unit bad. But you keep making this strawmen, they'll keep the crows away from the crops.

**koooaei**

How come that Crozius arcanum is ap2? It's a force maul after all.

**Ashiraya**

koooaei wrote:
How come that Crozius arcanum is ap2? It's a force maul after all.

So is the Black Mace.

**Johnnytorrance**

STR +2 and AP 2 is too OP for a unit that any HQ can take without sucking up a FOC slot.

AP4 is fine, he shouldn't have the best weapon in the codex

**SGTPozy**

Ashiraya wrote:
koooaei wrote:
How come that Crozius arcanum is ap2? It's a force maul after all.

So is the Black Mace.

I'm pretty sure that it is only AP2 when on a Daemon Prince as MCs are AP2.

**AlmightyWalrus**

SGTPozy wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
koooaei wrote:
How come that Crozius arcanum is ap2? It's a force maul after all.

So is the Black Mace.

I'm pretty sure that it is only AP2 when on a Daemon Prince as MCs are AP2.

Yep.

**koooaei**

Ashiraya wrote:
koooaei wrote:
How come that Crozius arcanum is ap2? It's a force maul after all.

So is the Black Mace.

The black mace is ap4

**SGTPozy**

Tbh, your Chaplain is way too OP