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Okay, this originally stemmed from my lack of tanks. Yes, I know, an IG player without tanks! (Well, technically I do have some - 2 Chimera plus a counts as Chimera MK1 Rhino and a converted Robogear Mech that is played as a Hellhound) However I just do not have the money to spend £35+ on a single tank, especially as I am less active within the 40K scene these days (Bad rules, overpriced kits/books, failcast, etc). However I do still play with a few friends once in a while and I have a big game coming up this weekend. Now, up until now I have had an old and very battered Rhino MK2 that I used as a "counts as" Leman Russ. However it just does not look the part and has been accidentally mistaken as wreckage in some games (even by me) leading to it being ignored/not shot/assaulted/shooting at times (A memorable moment last game was an entire 10 man unit of Terminators wandering in front of it whilst it was in Executioner Plasma Storm form).
As everyone whom knows me will tell you I am a bit of a history nerd, specialising in WW2 AFV's and in particular German tanks/SPG's.
After recently reading several books about Sturmsheutz and one filled with pictures from the battle of Arnheim I have decided to finally do something about my lack of armour support.
After acquiring a spare Eradicator cannon and some IG tanky bits from a rather generous friend at my club (Said friend I am indebted to because of this - He got this project off the ground) and digging out some old pieces of spare plastic I have now set about creating our very own Close Support SPG for use in my games. So, on with the Fluff/Crunch:

In the darker days of the Battle for Khantonia there where some acts of ingenuity that hone forth. One of these, in answer to the rapid losses that the armoured corps where suffering on some of the better held Imperial fronts was the up gunning of wrecked and captured APC chassis. Whilst these vehicles lacked both the turret ring and structural integrity to accept a true turret mounted gun an alternative method was found by mounting the cannon in the hull of the vehicle, which in itself was up armoured and reinforced. Whilst the lack of a turret did make the engagement parameters for these vehicles rather limited as they had to be aimed by turning the entire vehicle they where found to be an adequate solution for the problems that these fronts faced. Whilst the first of these where converted from captured and salvage chassis soon several dedicated factories where built to construct them. With the aftermath of the war the SPG(CS) where retained in service as infantry support vehicles and tank hunters and they continued to be built.

*Points increased and rules clarified
**Armour values on side and rear dropped

Khantonian SPG --------- 126Points

BS F S R HP
3 14 12 10 3

Weapons and Equipment:

Hull mounted Eradicator Cannon

Pintle mounted Heavy Stubber

Searchlight

Smoke Launchers

Special Rules:

Rolling Thunder; this vehicle may always fire its main gun at standard BS in addition to the other weapons it may fire if it moves at Combat speed. If the SPG moves at Flank speed it loses this ability

Options:

May take Hunter Killer Missiles ------- 10pts

May take Extra Armour ------------------ 10pts

May take a Dozer Blade ----------------- 10pts

May take Camo Netting ----------------- 10pts

May exchange Eradicator Cannon for:

Demolisher Cannon ----------------------- 15pts

Punisher Gatling --------------------------- 10pts

Hellhound Flame Cannon --------------- 5pts

Vanquisher Cannon ----------------------- 10pts

Battle Cannon ------------------------------- 15pts

Twin Linked Plasma Cannons ---------- 5pts

Executioner Plasma Cannon ------------ 10pts



There will be further developments and as I say the vehicle makes its début this Saturday. I will update this post to tell you how it does.
Just for those interested mine will be stock with Extra Armour.

I suggest removing the Demolisher Cannon, as the IG already have the Thunderer, and there's no point in having 2 similar vehicles.

So this is vastly better and cheaper than almost any Leman Russ variant, straight up.

xalvissx wrote:I suggest removing the Demolisher Cannon, as the IG already have the Thunderer, and there's no point in having 2 similar vehicles.

Good idea, although I do want it in there for fluff purposes.

curran12 wrote:So this is vastly better and cheaper than almost any Leman Russ variant, straight up.

Now that is an interesting argument. On the one side yes it is very cheap and good.
On the other it has less HP, less starting weapons, cannot take sponsons and cannot take a pintle mount. Oh, and the gun is hull mounted meaning that it has to turn to face its target as opposed to just swivelling its turret.

Huh? Less Hullpoints? Russes have 3, too.

And the lack of a turret is a false weakness, as this vehicle has more or less unrestricted movement. Why would the lack of a turret ever be a bad thing for it apart from the (much more rare) immobilized results?

For 125 points, I would make this, at best, AV 13/12/11.

RE: rolling thunder. A vehicle can already fire all its weapons, at up to any speed. Do you mean to say that it may always fire all of its weapons [at full BS] at stationary and combat speed? If so, does this override the ordinance rules making all your guns snap-shot if you use an ordinance weapon?

These weapon upgrades are way too cheap. They should all be at least 30 points minimum, then going up from there.

And yeah, all LR's have only 3 hull-points. I'm not sure how it not being able to take sponsons is helps balance it out, considering that it's 50 points cheaper than most tanks without further inflating their costs with sponsons and upgrades.

curran12 wrote:Huh? Less Hullpoints? Russes have 3, too.

And the lack of a turret is a false weakness, as this vehicle has more or less unrestricted movement. Why would the lack of a turret ever be a bad thing for it apart from the (much more rare) immobilized results?

Well, apart from being immobilized it means that the whole vehicle has to aim itself. This could mean presenting a far weaker face of armour to the enemy as you engage the target.
Thanks for the HP point, I thought the Russ had 4, seeing as it is bigger than a Chimera.

BlaxicanX wrote:For 125 points, I would make this, at best, AV 13/12/11.

RE: rolling thunder. A vehicle can already fire all its weapons, at up to any speed. Do you mean to say that it may always fire all of its weapons [at full BS] at stationary and combat speed? If so, does this override the ordinance rules making all your guns snap-shot if you use an ordinance weapon?

These weapon upgrades are way too cheap. They should all be at least 30 points minimum, then going up from there.

And yeah, all LR's have only 3 hull-points. I'm not sure how it not being able to take sponsons is helps balance it out, considering that it's 50 points cheaper than most tanks without further inflating their costs with sponsons and upgrades.

Thanks for this:
I do want to keep the high frontal armour but I do see what you mean
Rolling Thunder overrides the ordinance rule, so you can move up to 6" and fire your main gun at standard BS as well as your other allowed weapons. If you move at flank though the normal rules apply.
As for the weapons, im basing them on the fact the SPG already carries a tanks main gun as its primary gun.
However the argument is valid and the points costs will be upped.

As to both of you: Rules clarifications and points increase coming up!

Mounting something like a demolisher cannon inside the hull of a tank is not less technically difficult than making a turret for it. Your tank must actually be designed not to kill your own crew with recoil after having fired the first shot with this enormous gun.

As for the turret-less leman russes, there are thunderers allready. Maybe you could go that direction.

 koooaei wrote:
Mounting something like a demolisher cannon inside the hull of a tank is not less technically difficult than making a turret for it. Your tank must actually be designed not to kill your own crew with recoil after having fired the first shot with this enormous gun.

As for the turret-less leman russes, there are thunderers allready. Maybe you could go that direction.

Yeah, that is a good idea. However the model I have was converted from a wrecked Rhino APC model that I had. I literally rebuilt the entire model from scrap, built a gun mount in the hull that would actually work and made some new forward exhaust's.
That said I am going to change the armour values slightly to make it less of a "Leman Russ Thunderer with additional options".

Thanks for your feedback though, it is much appreciated.

 master of ordinance wrote:


Yeah, that is a good idea. However the model I have was converted from a wrecked Rhino APC model that I had. I literally rebuilt the entire model from scrap, built a gun mount in the hull that would actually work and made some new forward exhaust's.
That said I am going to change the armour values slightly to make it less of a "Leman Russ Thunderer with additional options".

Thanks for your feedback though, it is much appreciated.

If you aim for the rules for this 'specific' vehicles and don't want to introduce a new standard ig pattern, it's all good. Cause currently ig have 2 time-proven effective platforms - chimera and leman russ and just don't need anything new.

Rhino's clearly 11-11-10. And as your troops have jsut looted a wrecked rhino, it reminds me of ork's looted wagon. This direction is also an interesting option! Heavilly customisable tank with lots of gun options and some sort of drawback. In ork's case it's "Don't press dat" cause they sometimes get carried away, press random buttons and loose controle over their vehicle. In your case it'd be fun to have something like that with a rule representing re-using a heavilly damaged vehicle that has a chance to malfunctioning.

 koooaei wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:


Yeah, that is a good idea. However the model I have was converted from a wrecked Rhino APC model that I had. I literally rebuilt the entire model from scrap, built a gun mount in the hull that would actually work and made some new forward exhaust's.
That said I am going to change the armour values slightly to make it less of a "Leman Russ Thunderer with additional options".

Thanks for your feedback though, it is much appreciated.

If you aim for the rules for this 'specific' vehicles and don't want to introduce a new standard ig pattern, it's all good. Cause currently ig have 2 time-proven effective platforms - chimera and leman russ and just don't need anything new.

Rhino's clearly 11-11-10. And as your troops have jsut looted a wrecked rhino, it reminds me of ork's looted wagon. This direction is also an interesting option! Heavilly customisable tank with lots of gun options and some sort of drawback. In ork's case it's "Don't press dat" cause they sometimes get carried away, press random buttons and loose controle over their vehicle. In your case it'd be fun to have something like that with a rule representing re-using a heavilly damaged vehicle that has a chance to malfunctioning.

My idea was to create something like a Sturmshutz but that actually isnt a bad idea. I have the first trial this weekend and ill look at how it performs (Myself and a friend with 1.5K each, me IG him SM against 3K of 'nids)