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Hello guys, I am new to the forum, nice to meet this active community. My apologies for any possible mistake, my english are bad :/

1. Generally, we dilute varnish with water? Is is acrylic base so theoritically yes but is it effective? After how many coats is the mini safe? (referring to matt varnish)

2. For bases, using thick layers of varnish is a pain imo. So maybe if I dilute with a large amount of water and just apply it easily with a large brush will it bo ok?

3. In what kind of area do we empty the amount of varnish we will use? Because in a mere plastic palette it dries quickly so it is like wasting an amount :S

4. Especially with brush, how can we effectively avoid clouding/misting? And is there a way to correct a possible mistake?

5. I am going to use Vallejo matt (brush) varnish and Winsor & Newton Gallery series (brush) matt varnish. Is anyone using em for producing serious results ?(I mean not only for tabletop but for display too). Or does somebody knows a better product than them?

Thank you in advance for your answers

Firstly, welcome to Dakka!

I'll hopefully answer some of your questions. I'm by no means an expert but can tell you how I personally do varnishing.

I use Vallejo matt varnish for most of my models, except where it needs more gloss and I use, mainly GW's 'Ardcoat but branching out to Vallejo.

1. Yep! I usually mix 1 drop of water to every 3 or 4 drops of mat varnish. I put about 3 coats on. Mini's are never "safe" just a little more protected.

2. I don't usually discriminate bases from the model. As far as i'm concerned, the base is the model, too! Use the same diluted mix everywhere.

3. Mix up small amounts so you use it up before it dries!

4. Not sure here. Never experienced clouding except when varnish if applied too thickly.

5. I use Vallejo varnish and apply it with W&N 7 Series.


Hope that assists, somewhat. Looking forward to seeing your results and experiences. Be sure to share!

A little bonus tip.
I airbrush, so I sometimes want a quicker drying time.
In order to achieve that I thin some paints and varnishes with Vodka.
You can use rubbing alcohol mixed 4 part rubbing alcohol to 6 parts water. But Vodka is usually blended down to around 40% alcohol. So it's already a premade thinner mix.
Actually most of my paints and varnishes are thinned with Vodka.. :p

Thank you very much for your answers.
Sorry for the late response.

I finally thought about using this empty spray bottle:

to spray dilluted varnish.

I don't have airbrush and according to this article it works!
http://www.wargamingtradecraft.com/2010/09/liquidtex-matte-varnish.html

I'm new to airbrushing, and new to varnishing. I did models as a kid, just painting from the pot. That was about 30 years ago.

Anyway, I've had some very bad experiences with varnish from my airbrush. In fact I've had ZERO good experiences with airbrushing varnish. They always frost. No amount of thinning, changing air pressures or changing the distance I spray, always frosting.

I would be extremely careful using that spray bottle. It could come out clumpy or spotty. In fact I wouldnt try it at all, but that's me.

FYI you can use acrylic gloss(clear coat) spraypaint from a can to remove the frosting effect, but it leaves your miniatures VERY glossy, even if you try to tone down the gloss with several coats of satin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoBwMghF20A I might try a matte coat with a brush to bring down the gloss. I'm using Vallejo series of varnishes.

As you can see, too glossy.





https://www.flickr.com/photos/jgm11/sets/72157646731410845/

 Psychopski wrote:
I'm new to airbrushing, and new to varnishing. I did models as a kid, just painting from the pot. That was about 30 years ago.

Anyway, I've had some very bad experiences with varnish from my airbrush. In fact I've had ZERO good experiences with airbrushing varnish. They always frost. No amount of thinning, changing air pressures or changing the distance I spray, always frosting.

I would be extremely careful using that spray bottle. It could come out clumpy or spotty. In fact I wouldnt try it at all, but that's me.

FYI you can use acrylic gloss(clear coat) spraypaint from a can to remove the frosting effect, but it leaves your miniatures VERY glossy, even if you try to tone down the gloss with several coats of satin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoBwMghF20A I might try a matte coat with a brush to bring down the gloss. I'm using Vallejo series of varnishes.

As you can see, too glossy.






https://www.flickr.com/photos/jgm11/sets/72157646731410845/

Yeah yeah I know, I will for sure test that many times. I hope, not believe, this works

Thank you for your advice for frosting!!!

I've had great results using matte coats on my minis. It's usually user error if it gets "frosty" .
As for airbrushing on varnishes.
I do it indoors. In a controlled enviroment. So no large variations.
My varnish is alvays kept at room temperature.
Shaken vigorously before use.
And as previously mentioned. Thinned down with straight vodka.
The alcohol evaporates very quickly compared to water.

As for frosted finish from aerosols. I have never had that happen to me.
Even when spraying outside during midwinter.
The trick I found was saving up an entire batch of minis so I can use as much as possible in one go. Having the rattlecans stored at a constant temperature also helped. No massive temperature shifts.

The thing that stopped me from buying any more rattlecans was my airbrushing kit. The precision of a fine nozzled airbrush is spectacular compared to any rattlecans. And I use a lot less product. Yes the initial investement may look offputting. But for me the cost equated to something like ten cans of GW products. And I now have the flexibility of being able to spray any colour I want. No more toxic smelling primers, paints and varnishes drying on my work bench.

In addition you can try topaint up some. T-shirts for gifts.

Oh and the sprayer bottle.. I doubt that it would work. The nozzle will get clogged very easily I fear.
And the misting will not be as good. So you will get clumps of paint or varnish.
If you want proper misting of the paint or varnish you need a higher pressure than a pump bottle of that size can deliver.
And the nozzle is an unknown factor as well. The spray pattern might not even be suitable. At least not if its anything similar to the ones normally fitted to hat type of bottles..

Thanks for making this thread. I just got some varnish too same as you (Vallejo matt) and was wondering the same questions

If you can get your hands on it Testors spray matte varnish. Great stuff, no frosting ever. I have coated well over 300 minish with it in the last 4 years and had zero issues.

Main comments on frosting seem to be:
unreliable batches/distributors (this is why GW origonally pulled the mate varnish from their stores)
spraying when it's too cold.
Spraying with high humidity (but coupled with cold, i think)
can temperature dropping super fast, making the spray cold.

I only spray varnish in temperatures above 10C, and then bring them into a warm room immediately. Pain int he ass over winter, but it works.

The article linked to above, the author seems to have had horrendous luck, I have never encountered the issues he describes, especially not the one of getting dust and grit caught in the varnish. But then again, I always use spray on varnish from a tin, so maybe the spray is fine enough that that isn't an issue.

Varnishing shouldn't be a big deal, get stuck in to it!

Gobbi...

Would that be "Testors Dull Cote"?

That's the one! Couldn't remember the exact name, but on the shelf its got a pearly looking cap.

Gobbi..

Is this the correct type?


http://www.walmart.com/ip/Testors-Spray-Paint-Dullcote-Clear-3-oz/22056097?sourceid=csepg01bfa969258f9b4046bffc45a639953355&wmlspartner=pricegrabber.com&affcmpid=2768634865&tmode=0000&bcfg=a4884822242a8a74fc43e0494ccb99a2&veh=cse

Have you ever tried spraying the Testors gloss cote for washing? Then sealing the mini with the Testors dull cote? Does it bring the gloss all the way back down to matte?

That's the one! It's a small can, but at $4.50 US it's OK, I find a can usually does about 6 batches of models, it really depends on how efficiently you spray, an the size of the batches.

 goblinzz wrote:
That's the one! It's a small can, but at $4.50 US it's OK, I find a can usually does about 6 batches of models, it really depends on how efficiently you spray, an the size of the batches.

Will it bring the Testors gloss cote back down to a matte? ie for doing washes?

I don't know what you mean by using it as a wash, it's a spray can. But I accidentally sprayed my Skyshield Landing pad with high gloss enamel paint. I thought I was utterly screwed, but three coats of properly applied matte spray, followed by another when I was done painting and you wouldn't know there had ever been any gloss paint near it.

Edit - sorry, I think I get you, you mean wash it with nice hard gloss varnish and then spray it. Yes, I have done that too and it worked OK. Note the emphasis on OK. the spray doesn't get into the deeper crevices, just like when you blast with primer, so the effect is a little off. Generally what I do now is if I have anything I think will chip (spears, hats noses, sticky out bits) I paint them with gloss, and then hit the whole mini with 1-2 sprays of matte, which works really well, you don't know there's gloss varnish under there.

Edit edit - Another interpretation of what you mean is to paint over the gloss varnish by hand to add more detailing. Yes and no, see the comment above about the spray not getting into all the crvices. You can mitigate that somewhat by very careful spraying, but ultimately you're spraying a clear liquid and estimating ceverage is hard.

 goblinzz wrote:
I don't know what you mean by using it as a wash, it's a spray can. But I accidentally sprayed my Skyshield Landing pad with high gloss enamel paint. I thought I was utterly screwed, but three coats of properly applied matte spray, followed by another when I was done painting and you wouldn't know there had ever been any gloss paint near it.

Edit - sorry, I think I get you, you mean wash it with nice hard gloss varnish and then spray it. Yes, I have done that too and it worked OK. Note the emphasis on OK. the spray doesn't get into the deeper crevices, just like when you blast with primer, so the effect is a little off. Generally what I do now is if I have anything I think will chip (spears, hats noses, sticky out bits) I paint them with gloss, and then hit the whole mini with 1-2 sprays of matte, which works really well, you don't know there's gloss varnish under there.

Well some say it's a good idea to spray a gloss coat on after your base coat, to protect from scrapes. It's supposed to be easier to rub off a mistake without damaging the base coat, and it makes oil washes flow really smooth in all the crevices. Then after you're all done finish up with a Satin or Matte coat. I'd tried the Gloss to Satin technique as I described, but my minis are extremely glossy still.

Hey Psy, I wrote anther edit as you must have been typing. I've never heard anyone recommending that you paint your mini gloss before completion. Fair enough if it works for them, but I'm frankly HORRIFIED at the concept. Gloss paint is super smooth, it doesn't take drybrushing AT ALL, it screws with your opacities, and if you paint with thinned paint it encourages your layers to slide into the crevices as you describe (I use a consistency approaching milk to achieve a smooth finish when painting with a brush).

Like I said, if it works for them, more power to them, but I wouldn't touch that technique with a barge pole.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you're going to use gloss, just consider why, and use it appropriately.

Are you doing it as a painting aid for washes, as you describe above? Then good luck...

Are you doing it to protect the mini? Consider which parts will rub or chip (sticky out pointy bits), only paint those, and hit with a couple of sprays of dullcote.

Are you doing it for an effect, like a headlight? Then paint that iny area once you're done with spraying on the matte.

Wise words.

I've heard mostly Satin for doing the washes. Now that I think about it a bit more, it seems most of the remarks on applying varnish to facilitate the flow of washes was using a Satin Wash. I've been following Buypainted's tutorials on youtube for the most part, on the Dark Vengeances set(my first 40K minis) and first models since I was a kid. He does satin.... wash.... final highlights, then satin again. I was leaning towards the gloss because I'd read it somewhere, and the fact that my first 5 miniatures frosted pretty bad using my airbrush. I had to use a gloss coat to rescue them from the Simple Green(I'd already started 2 over).

So I suppose I should go with the Testors Medium/Satin coat, or whatever they call it. I am going to start experimenting with oil washes(as per Buypainted's tutorials) on my next batch, and it seems the satin wash is needed if you want the oil wash technique to work well. It appears his satin coats dont throw off his colors, if anything his minis are the best I've seen, and I had amazing results on my Dark Angles, other than the damned varnish circus.

Hey guys. I see that you have exp. with varnishes. I used winsor &newton matt varnish on my marine model applyied by brush slightly thinned with tamiya paint thinner. Two things happend. First, matt varnish went more gloss before it model was nice matt, I use varnish mainly for bit of protection and to hide small glossines of wash shading. And second thing, red lenses on helmet went much darker then they use to be. So my question is you guys had simmilar problems and know how to solve them or know some matt varnish which will stay matt.

Read Lepers guide.
It will answer most of your questions.

Better living through metachemistry, over at the official infinityy forums..

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24118-better-living-through-meta-chemistry-a-hobby-guide/