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Played against a guy who wasn't TFG, but his list still pissed me off. He asked me beforehand if I had any fliers, I said one Nephilim. He proceeded to bring 2 Storm Ravens and 3 Storm Talons. My ADL barely did anything. He was a great opponent and I would like to play him again, but needless to say I will never play his cheese list again.

I used to get called tfg but i was more waac. I see them as different, both can be bad. I played space wolves back in 5th and i played a guy running BA mephiston and dreadnought drop pod spam. My list was my alpha legion proxy because feth that awful piece of gak that was the prviois chaos dex.

Being alphas i had spammy same equipted multipurpose units. Apparently he had been asked to the local tournament to beat me, because he told me as much "I'm the best player around my area and I was the best here so this should be quick from what I've heard of you". We exchanged lists and he scoffs going "well your list is boring" and at thiz point I'd had enoufh of his attitude and just replied "yep, and yours is bad". He proceeded to gloat about his o5her victories and how quickly he tabled his opponent. I castled in the corner and one by one his drop pod dreads ate melta and las/plas fire. Mephiston got pulped by my thunderwolves (exhalted chaos knights) and it was over turn 2.

Dude threw a huge hissy over how unsporting I was and how I ruined his tournament, were talking hall of fame hissy for 20 minutes straight. But he did set me straight, i realised i never wanted to be that bad so i picked up dark eldar and run fluffy chaos lists.

Now i still got called tfg /waac because i was good and won a lot. But i cant see how running pure 1k sons, or pure foot khorne (kharn, bersrkers, mutilators and maulers ONLY) without knowing what my opponent had is waac. Eventually i stoped playing 40k and have moved to fantasy. So far I havent had a single issue of tfg but then again the playr2 base seems more mature on the fantasy side.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
I used to get called tfg but i was more waac. I see them as different, both can be bad. I played space wolves back in 5th and i played a guy running BA mephiston and dreadnought drop pod spam. My list was my alpha legion proxy because feth that awful piece of gak that was the prviois chaos dex.

Being alphas i had spammy same equipted multipurpose units. Apparently he had been asked to the local tournament to beat me, because he told me as much "I'm the best player around my area and I was the best here so this should be quick from what I've heard of you". We exchanged lists and he scoffs going "well your list is boring" and at thiz point I'd had enoufh of his attitude and just replied "yep, and yours is bad". He proceeded to gloat about his o5her victories and how quickly he tabled his opponent. I castled in the corner and one by one his drop pod dreads ate melta and las/plas fire. Mephiston got pulped by my thunderwolves (exhalted chaos knights) and it was over turn 2.

Dude threw a huge hissy over how unsporting I was and how I ruined his tournament, were talking hall of fame hissy for 20 minutes straight. But he did set me straight, i realised i never wanted to be that bad so i picked up dark eldar and run fluffy chaos lists.

Now i still got called tfg /waac because i was good and won a lot. But i cant see how running pure 1k sons, or pure foot khorne (kharn, bersrkers, mutilators and maulers ONLY) without knowing what my opponent had is waac. Eventually i stoped playing 40k and have moved to fantasy. So far I havent had a single issue of tfg but then again the playr2 base seems more mature on the fantasy side.

He was definitely TFG in the situation. Props to you for busting his chops as long as you're a decent guy and not bragging, don't matter how hard you play. I think you're only a WAAC if you try to spam/cheese out your opponent

morgoth wrote:

There is no mention of the other player receiving any advantage due to anyone counting the Hammerhead as not being at the proper height.

5th edition
TLOS

I don't know what your malfunction is, but your attempt to define TRUE Line of Sight as being, 'some arbitrary position different than where the model actually is,' is just bizarre, and completely unsupported by the rules. Especially for 5th edition. Bookwrack even mentioned the hamerhead taking cover saves, and since they were using TLOS, that meant they were using where the model actually sat on the table and not some random abstract position elsewhere.

As dictated by the rules.

So, again, this was a pretty clear case of the Tau player trying to pull a fast one at the last second.

 Portugal Jones wrote:

morgoth wrote:

There is no mention of the other player receiving any advantage due to anyone counting the Hammerhead as not being at the proper height.

5th edition
TLOS

I don't know what your malfunction is, but your attempt to define TRUE Line of Sight as being, 'some arbitrary position different than where the model actually is,' is just bizarre, and completely unsupported by the rules. Especially for 5th edition. Bookwrack even mentioned the hamerhead taking cover saves, and since they were using TLOS, that meant they were using where the model actually sat on the table and not some random abstract position elsewhere.

As dictated by the rules.

So, again, this was a pretty clear case of the Tau player trying to pull a fast one at the last second.

TLOS is not the only rule. You also have to use the base shipped with the model AND ignore any advantage or disadvantage stemming from modeling.

Even if my WK was crouching, there's no way I'd ever consider anything else than the basic pose for TLOS and distance measures.

A friend of a friend... who brought a friend.

A friend of mine who I worked with would talk with me for hours about 40k, told me his friend from the next town over would be going to my flgs, looking for a game and asked if I'd like to play this guy (who 'never lost'). I agreed and the next week I went to the store to meet this friend of his. I introduced myself to the guy, who'd brought along a chum, and set up on the table against him. My army was fairly unconventional for the type (ork wagon rush) and I had really refined taking marine armies down along basic principles... I waited to see what he'd deploy and out came...

An army designed to kill mine. He had brought a list entirely designed to take down my wagon rush, the army I'd been talking through with my friend from work, it had been, I guess, relayed back to him and he knew precisely what I'd be fielding. Moderately peevish, I set up.

And then my opponent's chum started up, for the entire game, questioning every single thing I did, movement, shooting, special rules... 'is that how it works' or 'not sure I'd be doing that'. He sat there thumbing through the rulebook whenever I did anything at all.

As soon as it was apparent I'd lost, I called it. He smiled and told me he never loses and that I shouldn't feel bad... I was not amused and he was genuinely puzzled why when he looked around for another game, nobody would play him. When he left, a gamer wandered over and patted me on the back and informed me that he knew this guy from a previous store and the dude was widely reviled.

There have been a couple of others over the years, but I guess that's a good thing, that of all the games I've played, only a few have ever been negative experiences. TFG remains for me, all about behavior, not bringing a strong list or sticking to the rules, but forgetting to be a gent.

Except I did spam cheese lol. Again I was a waac tournament player and won fairly often, but I eventually realized I wasn't really having fun.

morgoth wrote:
TLOS is not the only rule. You also have to use the base shipped with the model AND ignore any advantage or disadvantage stemming from modeling.

Even if my WK was crouching, there's no way I'd ever consider anything else than the basic pose for TLOS and distance measures.

The biggest reason people don't use the base/stem for the models is because of how easy those thin stems snap off in the hole (it's even worse if you glued it on because you have to drill it out to replace it), so many people play without. The fact that it wasn't used again, is not the issue. The issue is the owning player trying to change how the model is being played strictly for an advantage.

And yes, you can pose a WK or a Riptide as kneeling. If you do then that's how it's treated. The only things ignored (last I checked) were weapons, banners, and wings when it came to determining LoS, so if it's kneeling, then it's kneeling. I'm not going to try and argue that I should be able to shoot it because it's normally taller just because that's the default way to assemble the model. To do so is frankly a dick move.

EDIT: You seem REALLY confused on what TLoS actually is now that I read over your post again. With TLoS you don't pretend the model is anywhere but where it actually is. Yes, there are some things that are ignored for modelling purposes, but the majority of the model is always treated as where it is physically is not where it would be if posed more conventionally. You can run into some situations where modeling needs to be discussed with an opponent (such as any Tyranid player who uses Space Hulk Genestealers as some are FAR taller than normal Genestealers because of what they're attached to and the like) but generally speaking it's not quite that hard. And as long as it's consistent it doesn't matter how you agree to play it as long as it doesn't change, which in the situation where you keep lambasting the OP of that story, is the problem. It was played one way, and then for an advantage the controlling player tried to change how it was played. That is a no-go with any opponent who isn't coddling your nonsense because you're the only person they have to play against.

Seriously, read the rulebook because you don't seem to actually understand the rules you're referring to.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And yes, you can pose a WK or a Riptide as kneeling. If you do then that's how it's treated. The only things ignored (last I checked) were weapons, banners, and wings when it came to determining LoS, so if it's kneeling, then it's kneeling. I'm not going to try and argue that I should be able to shoot it because it's normally taller just because that's the default way to assemble the model. To do so is frankly a dick move.

That would be modelling for an advantage.

If you don't argue it means you don't recognize modelling for an advantage as a real issue that needs to be managed.

I recognize it as an issue and I believe Tournaments do as well.

That people who do not care for competitive play, i.e. playing fairly with equal chances for all, do not bother about that is not important to me.

morgoth wrote:

 Portugal Jones wrote:

morgoth wrote:

There is no mention of the other player receiving any advantage due to anyone counting the Hammerhead as not being at the proper height.

5th edition
TLOS

I don't know what your malfunction is, but your attempt to define TRUE Line of Sight as being, 'some arbitrary position different than where the model actually is,' is just bizarre, and completely unsupported by the rules. Especially for 5th edition. Bookwrack even mentioned the hamerhead taking cover saves, and since they were using TLOS, that meant they were using where the model actually sat on the table and not some random abstract position elsewhere.

As dictated by the rules.

So, again, this was a pretty clear case of the Tau player trying to pull a fast one at the last second.

TLOS is not the only rule. You also have to use the base shipped with the model AND ignore any advantage or disadvantage stemming from modeling.

Even if my WK was crouching, there's no way I'd ever consider anything else than the basic pose for TLOS and distance measures.

So that s the opponent not following that rule about using the base stem, taking cover saves as it was, but then at the end acting like it had the base to take a shot, and yet the OP is the dick...

This happened several years ago right when I had gotten back from basic training (US Army) and was playing in a small tournament at my FLGS. Now a little back story, there was an ex marine who thought he was a badass (was kicked out for feeling is PT test, he was a pretty big guy) that would often come in even before I shipped out to training and he would bring his girlfriend, now we all thought she was weird because she would constantly stare at us and try to talk to us privately. the sad fact was we found out later that he was physically and verbally abusive to her and she was trying to ask us for help in her own way.

Anyways at this tournament he was running a foot guard list (100pts. if I remember correctly) and had just barely tabled my buddies orks and was gloating about it like a typical Gak. I played him next and proceeded to kick the snot out of him with my airborne themed Steel Legion (back when Flyers were skimmers and could start of a table first turn). After a lengthy cryfest of calling me a cheesy, OP noob he packed up his stuff and dropped out of the tournament taking his girlfriend out into the parking lot with him. While we were picking up and getting ready for the last round we saw her trying to calm him down by their car and that's when we saw him wound up and slap her across the face. The next thing I knew i was outside and had him on the ground where I was proceeding to beat him into the pavement before the store owner and some friends dragged me off him. Later I found out she divorced him and have not seen him since nor has he ever come back to our game store.

^ that's...wow. That's a whole other level above TFG...

ImAGeek wrote:
So that s the opponent not following that rule about using the base stem, taking cover saves as it was, but then at the end acting like it had the base to take a shot, and yet the OP is the dick...

Because so far, the only person who took advantage of the stem issue was the player reporting the other one as TFG.

morgoth wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And yes, you can pose a WK or a Riptide as kneeling. If you do then that's how it's treated. The only things ignored (last I checked) were weapons, banners, and wings when it came to determining LoS, so if it's kneeling, then it's kneeling. I'm not going to try and argue that I should be able to shoot it because it's normally taller just because that's the default way to assemble the model. To do so is frankly a dick move.

That would be modelling for an advantage.

Tell that to GW who has advertised in the WD back when the Riptide came out it kneeling as a legitimate pose to use.

morgoth wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
So that s the opponent not following that rule about using the base stem, taking cover saves as it was, but then at the end acting like it had the base to take a shot, and yet the OP is the dick...

Because so far, the only person who took advantage of the stem issue was the player reporting the other one as TFG.

Except it wasn't because they mentioned cover saves, so they'd have taken them without the stem. It's only when the opponent wanted to take a shot that he couldn't that he mentioned the base at all.

morgoth wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
So that s the opponent not following that rule about using the base stem, taking cover saves as it was, but then at the end acting like it had the base to take a shot, and yet the OP is the dick...

Because so far, the only person who took advantage of the stem issue was the player reporting the other one as TFG.

You seem to have some kind of serious misunderstanding of what was clearly explained and reality in general. They agreed to play it without the stem, and the person who owned the model have cover saves and LOS benefits he didn't normally have because of it. Furthermore he then tried to alter the agreement to shoot as if he had the stem despite the bonuses he'd gotten for not having it.

He was trying to have his cake and eat it too. And you are intentionally ignoring facts to create a scenario where the person who posted this story was the the "actual" TFG when his opponent tried to go back on their verbal contract on how they were playing the game.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

morgoth wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
So that s the opponent not following that rule about using the base stem, taking cover saves as it was, but then at the end acting like it had the base to take a shot, and yet the OP is the dick...

Because so far, the only person who took advantage of the stem issue was the player reporting the other one as TFG.

You seem to have some kind of serious misunderstanding of what was clearly explained and reality in general. They agreed to play it without the stem, and the person who owned the model have cover saves and LOS benefits he didn't normally have because of it. Furthermore he then tried to alter the agreement to shoot as if he had the stem despite the bonuses he'd gotten for not having it.

He was trying to have his cake and eat it too. And you are intentionally ignoring facts to create a scenario where the person who posted this story was the the "actual" TFG when his opponent tried to go back on their verbal contract on how they were playing the game.

I think you should try reading it again.

 Bookwrack wrote:
Fortunately, the worst story I have to tell is pretty mild - playing a game against a tau player, who had a hammerhead with no base, and all game long it hadn't been a problem, just having it cruising along at ground level.

Until the last turn, when I had... something somewhere vital, but it was out of sight behind a tall wall. He pulled out his tape measure and started picking up his dice and I asked what he was doing.

"Well, if it was on its base, it'd be high enough to see them, so I'm taking the shot."

I wasn't having any of that, and he got cranky that I wasn't willing to budge on his hammerhead suddenly getting to gain a couple inches of height.

Very clearly, there is no mention whatsoever of the Tau player taking a cover save granted by the lack of stem.

But hey, if you want to be with the poster, and call TFG somebody you don't even know and who seemingly didn't do anything wrong, be my guest.

You mean like you are?

You're accusing Bookwrack of all sorts, but when people support the opposite view you're crying "invalid?"

You're adorable, like the living incarnation of Poe's Law.

Also, beside all the who had advantage and who didn't, your whole point is that you have to use the base it comes packaged with. The opponent didn't do that, so HE broke that rule. And yet the OP is being a dick for assuming he'd been using it as it was, in the edition when TLOS was a really big thing?

It clearly was just a misunderstanding but Id side with the OP if push came to shove, and in no way is OP being unreasonable about it, while you are.

 gmaleron wrote:
This happened several years ago right when I had gotten back from basic training (US Army) and was playing in a small tournament at my FLGS. Now a little back story, there was an ex marine who thought he was a badass (was kicked out for feeling is PT test, he was a pretty big guy) that would often come in even before I shipped out to training and he would bring his girlfriend, now we all thought she was weird because she would constantly stare at us and try to talk to us privately. the sad fact was we found out later that he was physically and verbally abusive to her and she was trying to ask us for help in her own way.

Anyways at this tournament he was running a foot guard list (100pts. if I remember correctly) and had just barely tabled my buddies orks and was gloating about it like a typical Gak. I played him next and proceeded to kick the snot out of him with my airborne themed Steel Legion (back when Flyers were skimmers and could start of a table first turn). After a lengthy cryfest of calling me a cheesy, OP noob he packed up his stuff and dropped out of the tournament taking his girlfriend out into the parking lot with him. While we were picking up and getting ready for the last round we saw her trying to calm him down by their car and that's when we saw him wound up and slap her across the face. The next thing I knew i was outside and had him on the ground where I was proceeding to beat him into the pavement before the store owner and some friends dragged me off him. Later I found out she divorced him and have not seen him since nor has he ever come back to our game store.

God I love street justice props mate, for beating him on TT and IRL


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:
[quote=ClockworkZion 616774 7253474 9972cb26815f4fccc1b84543e945a276.png

 Bookwrack wrote:
Fortunately, the worst story I have to tell is pretty mild - playing a game against a tau player, who had a hammerhead with no base, and all game long it hadn't been a problem, just having it cruising along at ground level.

Until the last turn, when I had... something somewhere vital, but it was out of sight behind a tall wall. He pulled out his tape measure and started picking up his dice and I asked what he was doing.

"Well, if it was on its base, it'd be high enough to see them, so I'm taking the shot."

I wasn't having any of that, and he got cranky that I wasn't willing to budge on his hammerhead suddenly getting to gain a couple inches of height.

Very clearly, there is no mention whatsoever of the Tau player taking a cover save granted by the lack of stem.

But hey, if you want to be with the poster, and call TFG somebody you don't even know and who seemingly didn't do anything wrong, be my guest.

Emphasis mine. He CLEARLY was taking cover saves by having it not be on the ground. Then, when he couldn't make a shot, he tried to play it as on the stem. He was obviously TFG, not the opponent. That, or you are literally insane/in denial

ImAGeek wrote:
It clearly was just a misunderstanding but Id side with the OP if push came to shove, and in no way is OP being unreasonable about it, while you are.

The OP called the other guy a TFG based on a misunderstanding and you find that reasonable ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

morgoth wrote:
[quote=ClockworkZion 616774 7253474 9972cb26815f4fccc1b84543e945a276.png

 Bookwrack wrote:
Fortunately, the worst story I have to tell is pretty mild - playing a game against a tau player, who had a hammerhead with no base, and all game long it hadn't been a problem, just having it cruising along at ground level.

Until the last turn, when I had... something somewhere vital, but it was out of sight behind a tall wall. He pulled out his tape measure and started picking up his dice and I asked what he was doing.

"Well, if it was on its base, it'd be high enough to see them, so I'm taking the shot."

I wasn't having any of that, and he got cranky that I wasn't willing to budge on his hammerhead suddenly getting to gain a couple inches of height.

Very clearly, there is no mention whatsoever of the Tau player taking a cover save granted by the lack of stem.

But hey, if you want to be with the poster, and call TFG somebody you don't even know and who seemingly didn't do anything wrong, be my guest.

Emphasis mine. He CLEARLY was taking cover saves by having it not be on the ground. Then, when he couldn't make a shot, he tried to play it as on the stem. He was obviously TFG, not the opponent. That, or you are literally insane/in denial

The non-Tau player had something somewhere vital, which was out of sight behind a tall wall.
Maybe you need to re-read it again.

morgoth wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
It clearly was just a misunderstanding but Id side with the OP if push came to shove, and in no way is OP being unreasonable about it, while you are.

The OP called the other guy a TFG based on a misunderstanding and you find that reasonable ?

Well... Yeah. He didn't actually say he was TFG at all, and said 'the only case I have is pretty mild'. Also made no mention of the guy being a dick, or an donkey-cave, or any kind of attack like that, he just said that he'd used his tau skimmer near the ground all day and at the end said about a base it wasn't on (which as you keep saying is a rule the opponent was actually breaking...)

I don't see anything he said that was unreasonable. You called him a dick, and TFG, so you're unreasonable. And a hypocrite.

Morgoth is obviously not going to budge from his stance on the situation. Would the rest of you please be so kind to move on to another point ?

At this point I am totally lost-I've read the damn post, and it looks like this:
-Tau player has tank not on base
-Non-Tau player (OP) is fine with this
-OP has important object
-Tau player tries to shoot it, claiming his tank would have been able to see it if it was on base, but can't when off base
-both players agreed it was being played off base, not on
-OP refuses this "back and forth"
-Tau player is a dick


Does that about sum it up? Because if I'm right in all that, anyone on the side of the Tau player is an asshat.

That sums it up yeah.

Great. Lets move on. If you support the tau player, you're an asshat. Good for you. You're also TFG, even if we're not playing a game currently.


(This is a general "you," not saying "you" to the poster above me. Just wanted to be clear )

I can't wait for one of your opponents to post his version of the story online and have some random people who didn't even bother to understand the situation judge you.

Sounds like your just salty morgoth.

morgoth wrote:
I can't wait for one of your opponents to post his version of the story online and have some random people who didn't even bother to understand the situation judge you.

\

Nobody likes people being salty Morgoth.

morgoth wrote:
I can't wait for one of your opponents to post his version of the story online and have some random people who didn't even bother to understand the situation judge you.

Like you did to the OP? Pot, kettle...