Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I just got the SW codex and I've been trying to put lists together, but it is just proving difficult. For one, I have noticed an inability to easily and efficiently fit a good amount of anti-tank or anti-flyer shooting in the list; the codex has it of course, but it just doesn't ever feel like a best-in-slot situation. Also, the SW seem like they can go in one of three directions, but the dex feels like it commits you so much in that direction that you end up feeling weak to other things; the three directions being troop heavy infantry spam, great for objectives games, but really lacking good anti-tank/mc/flyer, the awesome CC builds built around thunderwolves and wolves etc, but again feels like its lacking anti-tank/flyer unless you consider giving your cavalry units thunderhammers for a zillion points and hoping to charge the heavy armor, or finally shooty, which can be built differently of course, like flyer heavy, but seems like you have a very low model count. Of course there are builds like pods or bikes or whatever, but at that point why aren't you just playing salamanders/crimson fists or white scars. I want to make a list that says, yeah this is space wolves, but has good game against a number of unknown opponents. How I should be approaching space wolves in general?

There's a big thread where we've been debating SW tactics here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609597.page

Honestly, you can probably live without AA as long as you don't face tons of flyers on a regular basis. Aside from Heldrakes, their damage output is just not enough for me to dedicate points or firepower towards them.

I'm finding two stormwolves to be a solid core of a force and they provide great AA and great AT/anti-elite infantry.

The Storm Wolf is pretty much great AA with Multi Meltas. It's tough enough to withstand enemy shots and it usually claims a victim a turn in the skies (sometimes two, with Machine Spirit).

There is nothing quite as satisfying as flying between two Vendettas and one-shotting them both with Multi Meltas.

Ok so stormwolves have really been strong for people, I'll definitely use them. But what about TWC, they appear to be the "best" thing in the book, but I can't quite get the feel of what package to put them in. Do I go all in with a full on wolf themed fast attack list? Do I go minimal point investment and just run one moderate unit? And if so, what is the rest of the force doing? Drop Podding in? Just some Grey Hunters in rhinos? My basic issue is that I want to include TWC because of how good they are, but they make the list want to go "all in" when you look at what they are going to do on the field; but when you go all in your force becomes too small and two one-sided; and yet, when you take TWC and surround them with more traditional things, they almost look out of place and easy pickings. Again just looking for ideas.

I've seen two units with some angle on getting Strength 10 onto the board. Strength 10 is potent. The desire to put storm shields on them is big but honestly I think it is probably a bit more sensible to just add more to the unit.

I use one TWC squad sparingly and I will say you are very right about them seeming out of place -- they are very quickly targeted and eliminated, no matter the loadout, just because they are the softest target I present on turn 1. They have to be used more defensively, which is difficult. A tanking IC seems to do them well but I'm generally not a fan, the model is much too expensive for my tastes. A combo of T-wolves and Terminators seems to work out okay in my experiences, but it really depends on the list. We have the misfortune of a codex full of things that don't really make themselves a high-priority targets, the only thing that really draws fire is the flyers and T-wolves.

Yeah, my sentiments exactly. I think this is a force which on paper, looks like an enigma, when thinking about truly competitive play of course. I think this is a codex that will lend itself to hands on experience above all else. People who have just tried lots of different configurations will eventually figure out the right balance of elements. And my guess is that if a non-seasoned wolf player were to look at that honed list, he will probably say "huh? really?" lol

How do drop pod lists work in the new codex?

Pretty well, not to mention you can do drop shenanigans with allies too.

Our Grey Hunters gained (well, never lost, really, but doesn't need to have an Elite slot blown anymore) the ability to be led by a fairly decent cost Terminator who can carry a 5pt combi-weapon, and some of our dreads got a lot more effective (Bjorn, Murderfang, and the Shield Dread can all take drop pods). Some say the Terminators also can, because the Drop Pod from Fast Attack has no restrictions, but generally it doesn't seem worthwhile to do that anymore (not when our others can have some deep strike mitigation to help).

You want to talk about something that looks killer on paper but seems flat in-game? Long Fangs. Seems like they are just not as effective when the rest of the army is considered. Many are converting up to Lascannons, which isn't bad, but I personally am going to probably ditch them outright for more maneuverable speeders. In a lot of cases, 6x Strength 8 shots at side armor is going to be better than 5x Strength 9 shots at front armor is.

The area where I have the most trouble is the HQs.

- The Wolf Priest seems too expensive for what he does
- The Battle Leader seems designed to be on a Thunderwolf
- The Lord is very killy but still no match for the other heavy hitters out there, and will quickly falter against most dedicated CC HQs unless given the usual boring T-wolf treatment
- Logan is too expensive for what he is
- Ulrik is good but easy to kill for a Slay the Warlord point, and doesn't synergize well with Terminators or Thunderwolves
- Njal is too expensive when you could buy multiple Priests for his cost
- Rune Priests are cheap but generally easy to shut down and the Tempestas discipline is hot, wet garbage.

I just can't decide which way to go. I've been doing a Wolf Lord but it seems he's less and less worth it, especially on foot/in a Stormwolf/in anything that isn't a T-wolves unit.

Yeah, my Long Fangs were super unimpressive this last weekend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, put Ulrik in a Stormwolf with 5GH and a Wolf Standard. Fly around handing out buffs.

That seems like a waste of a lot of points (not to mention having to keep the Storm Wolf close.

I like the idea of the banner doing that, though. It always dies, this is a great way to marginalize that.

I think the key to the SW codex is allies, honestly, I'm working on list I'll be putting up in a few minutes of pretty much 50/50 white scars and space wolves, and the list seems really powerful. I know Tigurius feels like an auto-include for cents, and he is really great in that role, but the UM don't seem to bring anything else that exciting after that. Bringing Khan for scouting bikes and transports, combined with TWC and the like is going to make for a real sick list.

I played against a White Scars list with CoF allies (2 IP and a Claw/Tooth/TWC Lord). Ouch.

Here is the list, going to also post in the actual list forum. It's an alpha strike list to be sure, low model count, but just pure power, there are no filler units. Technically Space Wolves with White Scars allies, but when you look at the contributions it's a real 50/50 breakdown. Khan allows all the WS units to scout, and the double pods means the cents will always arrive turn 1; the only unit actually deploying in my deployment zone are the TWC.


SW HQ – Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/ Runic Armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Thunderwolf
SW Fast Attack – 3x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ 2x Double Wolf Claws & 1x Frost Axe

WS HQ - Kor'Sarro Khan w/ Moondrakken
WS Command Squad w/ 5x Bikes, Apothecary, 5x Grav-Guns

SW Troops – 5x Grey Hunters
SW Transport – Stormwolf w/ TL-Helfrost Cannon, TL-Lascannon, 2x TL-Multi Melta

SW Troops – 5x Grey Hunters
SW Transport – Stormwolf w/ TL-Helfrost Cannon, TL-Lascannon, 2x TL-Multi Melta

WS Troops - 3x Bikes w/ 2x Melta Gun, Combi-Melta

WS Troops - 3x Bikes w/ 2x Melta Gun, Combi-Melta

SW Elites – Murderfang the Curseborn
SW Transport – Drop Pod

WS Heavy Support – 3x Centurion Devastators w/ Grav-Cannons & Hurricane Bolters, Omniscope
SW Fast Attack – Drop Pod

If you're going to get Cents, you need to fit Tigurius in there.

I mentioned tigurius in the previous post, saying that of course he is amazing with the cents, but rest of the ultramarines don't bring anything else too super exciting. The white scars on the other hand bring awesome scouting grav/melta bikes. Other than prescience on the cents, why is tigurius such an auto-include with them?

Prescience isn't the big deal. Ignore Cover is.

How does he confer ignore cover?

Perfect Timing. He pretty much guarantees any power you want in Divination. Perfect Timing is the go-to power for Grav Cents.

Never mind perfect timing, yeah, I'll start working on a UM version lol.

With Tigurius getting PT and Grav Cents, you basically just have to pick up a unit each turn and remove it from the board unless you kill them.

Yeah its a sick unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Only thing better was if you could guarantee them invisibility some how...lol

A buddy of mine runs cents, Tiggy, draigo and a GK lib. Gets you gate, divination and a good chance at invis.

This is a version using UM for Tigurius:


SW HQ – Wolf Battle Leader w/ Runic Armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Thunderwolf
SW Fast Attack – 3x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ 2x Double Wolf Claws & 1x Frost Axe

UM HQ – Chief Librarian Tigurius (Centurions)

UM Command Squad w/ 5x Melta Gun, Melta Bomb
UM Transport – Drop Pod

SW Troops – 5x Grey Hunters
SW Transport – Stormwolf w/ TL-Helfrost Cannon, TL-Lascannon, 2x TL-Multi Melta

SW Troops – 5x Grey Hunters
SW Transport – Stormwolf w/ TL-Helfrost Cannon, TL-Lascannon, 2x TL-Multi Melta

UM Troops – 5x Scout Squad
UM Transport – Land Speeder Storm w/ Cerberus Launcher & Multi-Melta

UM Troops – 5x Scout Squad
UM Transport – Land Speeder Storm w/ Cerberus Launcher & Multi-Melta

SW Elites – Murderfang the Curseborn
SW Transport – Drop Pod

UM Heavy Support – 3x Centurion Devastators w/ Grav-Cannons & Hurricane Bolters
SW Fast Attack – Drop Pod

I would grab some SS for those TWC over the double WC.

I have been playing wolves for about 2 years now and run a LoganWing. I don't play competitively just against friends or maybe my local league at times. Also my list is built for fluff reasons not to win. I found that termis give me decent anti infantry due to assault cannons or the heavy flamer in the squads and the fact I run 3 Landraiders with them. Lots of shots. Also the cyclone is good for both infantry and armor. Tanks and armor are sometimes an issue but most of the time I can get a squad into CC with the tank by rushing it with the LR. Flyers is where my big issue is. Currently I just run an aegis emplacement with a quad gun. Its 100 points and very effective. I will be adding in Stormwolf to help with anti-air and moving my termis around. It is a low model count army as termis can get expensive with upgrades but they are worth the points in my opinion. Just another idea for you to think about.

I played a game tonight with a medium size TWC unit consisting of:
3 TWC (1 CCW+SS, 1 Dual WC, 1 PF+SS)
1 IP with 2 Cyberwolves
1 Biomancer RP on bike (mastery 2)

It worked really great. I got Endurance on the RP and managed to get it off every single turn. The unit has two models with a 2+, two models with 3++ and with Endurance they all have FNP (4+) and Eternal warrior. There are 2 ICs in the unit so you can tank with the IP or RP and shunt low-AP wounds to the SS TWC easily through Look out sir.

The cost of the unit is slightly below 500p so it's easy enough to run it together with some other stuff. But yes, that unit will be *the* assault unit, I've found it impossible to fit both such a unit and terminators in the same list for example.

My RP is converted from GH parts and a Dark vengeance bike, the IP from a TWC+ a servo arm backpack from a tech marine. Those parts aren't too expensive I think ( I got them off ebay cheap, apart from the TWC parts).

Thanks for sharing your experience. Space Wolves are proving to be a tricky codex. I guess in terms of fluff the codex is a home run, the SW snubbed Guiliman's Codex Astartes in favor of there own traditons; much like that original decision, when building an army of space wolves one can't expect to follow excepted norms with much success.