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 Sasori wrote:

mercury14 wrote:
The necron codex has pretty much been spilled at this point. Any thoughts on how DE look against them.

T5 Wraiths with the beast type going on I5 that are laughably under-costed at 40-43 points kind of scare me. Everyone is going to run a dozen of them now because why not? And their jetbikes shoot S6 small blasts that ignore cover for just a little over 20 pts.

Tesla got nerfed, as did Annihilation barges so that's good.

From the Necron Perspective, You guys are in trouble.

The Decurion is the new big thing, which creates a 4+ RP for every model that is it available. The new RP is like a super FNP. This makes it extreamly hard to put down enough Necrons before they can cripple your Army.

Factor in that nearly everything in the Codex got either cheaper, better, or both. Things like the Obelisk, which is an AV 14 Superheavy with 4 Tesla Spheres that shot 5 Tesla shots each, and can be taken in one of the formations with the Decurion.

Tomb Blades with Gauss Blasters will blow apart anything, and have insane durability for their points.

The Decurion is going to be an uphill battle for every Army, not just Dark Eldar.

Annihilation barges look like they got worse and it still looks like there are a bunch of units nobody will ever take. Both Necron flyers got worse. Tomb blades look good but if they jink they can't shoot at least. The Obelisk looks good but a lot of metas and tournaments still don't allow superheavy vehicles.

As for the Harlies I'm very excited to add them to my DE force. The Caress seems very fun and the embrace can be really fun too given it's points cost. I don't care about the kiss so much though, I feel it's too reliant on a lucky six and you get 1 dice to use it with. I'm very curious about their transport though, I want to see what that offers us,

Necron is also something I'm excited for. There seems to be a lot of good stuff in their new dex but nothing I have heard so far scares me too much, it seems (and I know this word is blasphemy in relation to GW products) balanced for the most part. I haven't heard of any useless units or wargear (though some did get a hard nerf but those ones really needed a nerf though...I'm looking at you MSS). I feel the new Necron will be a decent fight for anyone and should be ,ore fun than their current iteration.

Solitare looks like a great addition. I like that hes a solo man, means you can run him for reasonable fun without feeling like you have to plant him with X unit to make them good, or to make him good. I will certainly be adding some harlies to my harle themed DE/CWE!

Oh I laughed at the MSS nerf.... as last time I played crons I forgot MSS and charged his court/lord star (which I had just nuked directly with a STR10 SAG shot - removing the court with ID), his 2 lords and 1 IC then with MSS killed my warboss, my bike mek (who had the SAG) along with all the bikes... instantly I was like oh fail..

But then I remember I play orks and then I realised a 3D6 fear check is still a little iffy for me! but atleast if they run they can potentially regroup... rather than having my warboss kill everyone in the unit.

Honestly, the wraiths wont be that big of a deal. Treat them like any other 3+ save and kill them with volume of shots.

The tomb blades will be a pain with the new weapon....But other than that, im not too worried about the new codex. The apoc unit looks nasty, but my group doesnt use too many super heavy units(except IK).

Yeah I've watched those things destroy many a force. Having my chaos lord turn around and stomp his unit of termies, not fun. Having my Eldar farseer swing his singing spear at his own bikers... sucked. Watching my friends two riptides one turn after the other punch themselves to death, well that one was hilarious but still... The nice thing about the fear test though is that now anything that can get fearless can negate it. Also isn't a fear test just dropping you to WS1 BS1 for the round it applies? I don't think it makes you run away right away. If it did in this case then those scarabs are scary still cause if you fear ad run away then he has a chance to sweeping advance possibly?

And yeah the Solitaire looks nice, both model and rules. I'm looking forward to seeing the pressure both him and my succubus can put on the field.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I was gonna say that that sounds like a horrible idea, but then it occurred to me that 60 warriors costs less than 500 points.

Here's a list I threw together while exploring the possibilities of that.

Spoiler:

Archon (Blaster)
10xKabailite Warriors (Blaster)
10xKabailite Warriors (Blaster)
10xKabailite Warriors (Blaster)
10xKabailite Warriors (Blaster)
10xKabailite Warriors (Blaster)
10xKabailite Warriors (Blaster)
Cronos Pain Engine (Spirit-probe)
Cronos Pain Engine (Spirit-probe)
2xTalos Pain Engines (2xTwin-linked haywire blasters)
2xTalos Pain Engines (2xTwin-linked haywire blasters)

1415

Not cutting edge competitive, but I think it'd be pretty brutal in a casual game.

Add a Fortress of Redemption to that list for the LOLs

Necrons don't do to well with really high toughness values. Dark Artisans, and Grotesques will clean up. A Grotesques squad with the a Haemonoculus will in fact kill a Wraith Squad in CC, they get to many INSTANT DEATH, Wound on a 2+ Attacks. 5 Grotesques charging a WRaith Squad they don't care about their rending claws and they are ST6 with wounding on 3s.

5 Grotesques @ 35 points get the charge, so that's like a lot of attacks.Especially if they've got something crazy like Rage or +1 Toughness.

5 Grotesques with Rage on the Charge is going to be a average of 45 attacks. All that wound on a 2+ and Instant Death on a 6, remember if they have Reanimation protocol it's only a 5+ against Instant Death.

Hollismason wrote:
Necrons don't do to well with really high toughness values. Dark Artisans, and Grotesques will clean up. A Grotesques squad with the a Haemonoculus will in fact kill a Wraith Squad in CC, they get to many INSTANT DEATH, Wound on a 2+ Attacks. 5 Grotesques charging a WRaith Squad they don't care about their rending claws and they are ST6 with wounding on 3s.

5 Grotesques @ 35 points get the charge, so that's like a lot of attacks.Especially if they've got something crazy like Rage or +1 Toughness.

5 Grotesques with Rage on the Charge is going to be a average of 45 attacks. All that wound on a 2+ and Instant Death on a 6, remember if they have Reanimation protocol it's only a 5+ against Instant Death.

6 Wraith's do 4 Wounds retaliating (18 attacks in total)
5 Grotesques do 2.06 Wounds on the charge, with Rage and 3 on Rampage for each Grotesque (45 attacks in total).

I can't see Grotesques winning against Wraiths, or at least easily, especially in subsequent turns in combat. (you even stastistically lose a Grotesque before they swing, so it's even less than the stat above) It will be a very long combat, thanks to that 3+ invulnerable (and RP if from the Canoptek formation).

(also Wraiths are T5 so Grotesques wound on 4+, unless they get +1S on the chart)

I'll update this post with data for Hatred Grots whn I've had a sleep :p

6 wraiths is what, 43*6=258pts?

5 grots is 180pts without upgrades. Should compare against 4 wraiths as that is closer in points. 4 wwraiths with whipcoils are 176 pts.

Grots aren't going to win against wraiths easily, but whoever the winner is will be decided by one person rolling very well, and the other rolling very poorly for one round, otherwise they will come close to wiping each other out over 3-4 rounds of assault.


TBH I think flayed ones are a little scarier than wraiths now.

3 attacks base, WS4 S4 T4 shred, they come with two flayer claws so they get an offhand weapon. 13pts each. oh and they cause fear... they do suffer morale, but if there is a CCB within 12" they can reroll. They also get infiltrate and can come in packs of 20.

20 of them is 260 pts.

20 of them puts out 100 attacks, yes 100, on the charge at strength 4 with shred. Against WS 4 toughness 5 they will hit 50 times and cause 25 wounds. No idea if you can add characters to them in the new codex.

They get a 4+ save 5+ RP, and there are ways they could get a 4+ save 4+ RP with a reroll. If that happens it takes on average 24 poison shots to kill just 1.

Grotesques also have fearless and gain It Will not Die, Also I think your math is wrong. I don't think you counted the 6 + save they have base.

If Grots get +1 ST they reroll all wounds against the Wraiths

If Grots get +1 T , Wraiths Damage is again cut in half

If Grots get Rage and a charge +2 attacks per

If they get FNP 4+ another

You also need to take into account the fact they have a instant death weapon.

They get Zealot on Turn 5.

So yeah, if the Wraiths manage to turn 2 Charge the Grots (which is possible ) they'll do some maybe damage.

If the Grots get a turn 2 Charge and are bumped by Haemy or some other way, their getting through the Wraiths and the Wraiths just going to sit there all game or die.

Even if the wraiths get off a turn 2 charge on equal points of grots, chances are the assault is lasting until turn 4 or 5 and seeing the wraiths either dead or down to a model before the grots are done with.

Yeah that and the Grots get stronger as the turn goes on with gaining It Will not die. It seems like it at first your like oh wait that wouldn't work but it will. The Grotesque formation is really powerful and good.

Grots are nasty and all, but how are they getting into combat with the Wraiths, especially with the charge?

If they are taking a vehicle, that's a lot less grots, if they are footslogging, I find it very unlikely that an entire unit will get anywhere near a set of Wraiths, much less get the charge.

5 Grots and a Raider are less points than 6 Wraiths.

I'm curious as to how people feel about combat Archons?

Do you find them worthwhile with no AP2 weapons?

Don't wraiths from Canoptek Harvest lose a few buffs if you pop the Spyder?

Deldar should have little to no problem scrubbing ground-pounding MCs.

Yeah they do if you go first you should focus on killing the Spyder with shooting though because the Spyder only gives the ability on the first turn not before the game begins.

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah they do if you go first you should focus on killing the Spyder with shooting though because the Spyder only gives the ability on the first turn not before the game begins.

But the spyder is only applying a +1to RP (so a +1 to FNP). I understand that 'kill the spyder first' is obviously logical, but I dont think its something you will always be able to do. First off, as a necron player i'd hide it out of LOS at game start, but within 6" of said wraiths. Turn 1 maybe move it out, while also stringing the wraith unit to within the 6" bubble. DE then kill it, but now its turn 2, and my 12" move, D6 run, followed by 12" move is most likely putting me in range of whatever my target was. Once in combat jobs done. wraiths alone are gona be pretty mean, I think the spyder in some cases will be a distraction to the fact that the wraiths are the real issue. I mean they will be out of range of the spyder pretty fast, in cases i'd just focus down the wraiths anyway. Or simply enough that a unit of grots, or something else can handle them. assuming people will run around 6 in the unit?

Spyder > wraiths is the most optimal situation, but isn't the always situation. Is 2 turns of shooting at 1 unit with +1FNP always < than shooting the spyder then shooting the wraiths?
In saying this; I think the spyder would be a prime target for the scalpel squadron. Single model MC unit, with 3+ I think. So T is negated by poison and with enough shots 3+ wont hold. Does the spyder also get the FNP? or is the spyder buffing only the wraiths (and scarabs?).

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't wraiths from Canoptek Harvest lose a few buffs if you pop the Spyder?

Deldar should have little to no problem scrubbing ground-pounding MCs.

It takes an average of 60 poison shots to kill a Spyder with the RP buff applied.

 Sasori wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't wraiths from Canoptek Harvest lose a few buffs if you pop the Spyder?

Deldar should have little to no problem scrubbing ground-pounding MCs.

It takes an average of 60 poison shots to kill a Spyder with the RP buff applied.

How many darklight shots?

I'm guessing the same amount to take out a single wraith(poison shots I mean)?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't wraiths from Canoptek Harvest lose a few buffs if you pop the Spyder?

Deldar should have little to no problem scrubbing ground-pounding MCs.

It takes an average of 60 poison shots to kill a Spyder with the RP buff applied.

How many darklight shots?

I'm guessing the same amount to take out a single wraith(poison shots I mean)?

No, Spyders have 3 wounds compared to 2 on a Wraith.

10 Darklight shots, assuming no cover. Unlikely to not have cover though.

Either way, once RP is up on it, it takes a surprising amount of firepower to kill it.

 Sasori wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't wraiths from Canoptek Harvest lose a few buffs if you pop the Spyder?

Deldar should have little to no problem scrubbing ground-pounding MCs.

It takes an average of 60 poison shots to kill a Spyder with the RP buff applied.

How many darklight shots?

I'm guessing the same amount to take out a single wraith(poison shots I mean)?

No, Spyders have 3 wounds compared to 2 on a Wraith.

10 Darklight shots, assuming no cover. Unlikely to not have cover though.

Either way, once RP is up on it, it takes a surprising amount of firepower to kill it.

I was curious, on a multiwound model do RP bring the model back to full health, or just prevents wounds like a save? If it doesn't die, does it still get the RP roll?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't wraiths from Canoptek Harvest lose a few buffs if you pop the Spyder?

Deldar should have little to no problem scrubbing ground-pounding MCs.

It takes an average of 60 poison shots to kill a Spyder with the RP buff applied.

How many darklight shots?

I'm guessing the same amount to take out a single wraith(poison shots I mean)?

No, Spyders have 3 wounds compared to 2 on a Wraith.

10 Darklight shots, assuming no cover. Unlikely to not have cover though.

Either way, once RP is up on it, it takes a surprising amount of firepower to kill it.

I was curious, on a multiwound model do RP bring the model back to full health, or just prevents wounds like a save? If it doesn't die, does it still get the RP roll?

The new RP is like a super Feel no Pain. In that it can be taken even against Instant Death (Although with a -1 penalty)

The Decurion Deatchment Grants a 4+ RP.

 vipoid wrote:
I'm curious as to how people feel about combat Archons?

Do you find them worthwhile with no AP2 weapons?

Ive had luck running them so far. They either kill alot or cant find anything to kill since the rest of your army is killing.

Shadowfield is a must if you do run him as a CC beast.



Now back to the overestimated wraiths.... Shoot it with splinter weapons, watch as it dies to the volumes of shots. mathhammer is cool an all, but lets face it.... Everyone has a different exp than others with dice rolls. Dont let those numbers fool you.

 Sasori wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't wraiths from Canoptek Harvest lose a few buffs if you pop the Spyder?

Deldar should have little to no problem scrubbing ground-pounding MCs.

It takes an average of 60 poison shots to kill a Spyder with the RP buff applied.

Yea but with first turn DE only need 27 splinter shots to take it out, which honestly is pretty easy. ~8 dark light shots alternatively.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I'm curious as to how people feel about combat Archons?

Do you find them worthwhile with no AP2 weapons?

Ive had luck running them so far. They either kill alot or cant find anything to kill since the rest of your army is killing.

Shadowfield is a must if you do run him as a CC beast.



Now back to the overestimated wraiths.... Shoot it with splinter weapons, watch as it dies to the volumes of shots. mathhammer is cool an all, but lets face it.... Everyone has a different exp than others with dice rolls. Dont let those numbers fool you.

Honestly in order to field the decurion and multiple dark harvest formations they need to forfeit a lot in the shooting department. It means we have more time to power up ourselves while shrinking their units to a more manageable size.

Also can someone clear up the dark harvest. The way I read it is it says 1 spyder, 3 wraiths amd a scarab swarm. Are these units, or models? because even with repair protocol a 3 man wraith unit is much easier to manage especially when you realize it makes staying to within a foot of that spyder WAY harder.

@Red Corsair
I believe you left out the 4+ Reanimation Protocols. You need about twice that number of poison shots.

It won't get the Reanimation on the first turn if you go first.

Hollismason wrote:
It won't get the Reanimation on the first turn if you go first.

Good to know! Of course one can't always count on going first, or the Spyder being in line of sight. And that's still a ton of poison to get I to range first turn.

Why specifically doesn't Reanimation Protocols work on the first turn, or is it just they won't get the +1?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
It won't get the Reanimation on the first turn if you go first.

Good to know! Of course one can't always count on going first, or the Spyder being in line of sight. And that's still a ton of poison to get I to range first turn.

Why specifically doesn't Reanimation Protocols work on the first turn, or is it just they won't get the +1?

Ah ive been mistaken a little in my last posts.

spyder gives RP the rule, the decursion thingy gives the +1. So outside the spyder range they have no FNP whatsoever, nor on first turn if your going first.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@Red Corsair
I believe you left out the 4+ Reanimation Protocols. You need about twice that number of poison shots.

Turn one it doesn't get it if you go first.