From the Void- Dark Eldar Tactica for 7th Codex

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**Denizen of the Dark City**

A Archon supported by a farseer can be HARD to get rid of.
Fortune makes him a real killer.

High toughness creatures can be rough on you..bring in the lowly agonizer and watch those wraithknights eat dirt.

The new dex is about finding units that work together.

I miss the old husk blade but it's gone,gone.

**vipoid**

Denizen of the Dark City wrote:

High toughness creatures can be rough on you..bring in the lowly agonizer and watch those wraithknights eat dirt.

Why are high-toughness creatures rough on us? Surely we're one of the best armies for dealing with them?

The only high-toughness creatures I have problems with are those with 2+ saves. So, I'll just kit out my Archon for... oh... wait.

**Solar Shock**

SisterSydney wrote:
[nitpick]Actually the average roll on 1d6 is 3.5, which isn't even possible as the result of any individual roll. Try finding an entry for "3.5" in the Combat Drugs table, I'll wait....[/nitpick]

PS Math: (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 = 3.5

And as 3.5 is not a value that can be obtained using a dice we round to the nearest achievable value; which is 4, as you round 3.5 up.

Yeh archon's arent worthless, but certainly not as interesting or as customisable as our other HQ choices imo. The haemi provides so much more and the succubus is certainly more choppy. A shooty archon isn't bad, but for his cost isn't bringing much more that can't be found elsewhere in our army.

**vipoid**

Solar Shock wrote:
SisterSydney wrote:
[nitpick]Actually the average roll on 1d6 is 3.5, which isn't even possible as the result of any individual roll. Try finding an entry for "3.5" in the Combat Drugs table, I'll wait....[/nitpick]

PS Math: (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 = 3.5

And as 3.5 is not a value that can be obtained using a dice we round to the nearest achievable value; which is 4, as you round 3.5 up.

That's a really dicey way to round.

I mean, it just seems like trying to manipulate the facts for no good reason. 3.5 can't be rolled, but it's still the average. If you roll 2 dice, then the average is 7. Using your method, the average jumps to 8 for no good reason.

To put it another way, there's no value whatsoever in rounding at this point. You only round if you need a whole number for some reason, or a more manageable figure after some mathhammer. Rounding the result of a single d6 serves no purpose but to mislead (intentionally or otherwise).

**Frozocrone**

Can we all just agree that you are likely to get something good out of Combat Drugs 2/3 times (Personally don't rate the Initiative one as you still have I6 and what on earth is that Ld Gak)?

I'd argue we still have good weapons in the form of Blasters to deal with High Toughness 2+, which is why I'm considering 2x 5 units of Trueborn. Not ideal, but it's there, if need be.

**vipoid**

Frozocrone wrote:

I'd argue we still have good weapons in the form of Blasters to deal with High Toughness 2+, which is why I'm considering 2x 5 units of Trueborn. Not ideal, but it's there, if need be.

Well, Dreadknights are a massive pain in that regard as they have a 5++ save and a cheap psychic power to make it a 4++.

Statistically, you need 14-15 blaster shots to take them down. So, those two trueborn squads would have to fire at the Dreadknight, then both survive and fire at it again next turn. Just saying.

**sweetbacon**

vipoid wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:

I'd argue we still have good weapons in the form of Blasters to deal with High Toughness 2+, which is why I'm considering 2x 5 units of Trueborn. Not ideal, but it's there, if need be.

Well, Dreadknights are a massive pain in that regard as they have a 5++ save and a cheap psychic power to make it a 4++.

Statistically, you need 14-15 blaster shots to take them down. So, those two trueborn squads would have to fire at the Dreadknight, then both survive and fire at it again next turn. Just saying.

Yeah, I think firing your Blasterborn at a Dreadknight, when you can pour poison shots into it, is a little bit of a waste. I find Venoms full of Warriors with one Blaster to be pretty decent at whittling down Dreadknights since we can spam them due to their relative cheapness. At 12 inches, that's 20 poison shots and one AP2 shot per Venom. Not too shabby.

**vipoid**

In case anyone is interested, those warriors with blaster in a venom (in rapid fire range) average 1.4 wounds on a dreadknight.

As a question, do you guys think its better to disembark passengers to fire at a DK, or leave them embarked? Assume the DK has a Heavy Incinerator and Heavy Psycannon.

**mercury14**

Anyone else looking at the Harlequin 12" -2 Ld bubble artifact stacking with armor of misery and coven formations? -4 Ld bubble FTW.

**vipoid**

mercury14 wrote:
Anyone else looking at the Harlequin 12" -2 Ld bubble artifact stacking with armor of misery and coven formations? -4 Ld bubble FTW.

What would you use it for?

**mercury14**

vipoid wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
Anyone else looking at the Harlequin 12" -2 Ld bubble artifact stacking with armor of misery and coven formations? -4 Ld bubble FTW.

What would you use it for?

Forcing morale checks? In the opponents' deployment zone perhaps? Sweeping them in CC.

Necrons getting swept in CC circumvents their RP.

**sweetbacon**

vipoid wrote:
In case anyone is interested, those warriors with blaster in a venom (in rapid fire range) average 1.4 wounds on a dreadknight.

As a question, do you guys think its better to disembark passengers to fire at a DK, or leave them embarked? Assume the DK has a Heavy Incinerator and Heavy Psycannon.

Yeah, that sounds about right. That's why I mentioned it works because the Warrior/Venom combo is so cheap we can bring lots of them. And two cheap HQs in Venoms as well. Dreadknights are good but they're still just four wound MCs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
Anyone else looking at the Harlequin 12" -2 Ld bubble artifact stacking with armor of misery and coven formations? -4 Ld bubble FTW.

What would you use it for?

Check out the new Harlequin psychic powers. Numbers 5 and 6, specifically. Couple one of those with -5 Ld from Shadowseer Mask, Armor of Misery, and Covens formation. And if you're really frisky, run a DE/CWE/Harlie list where you also take a Farseer with Psychic Shriek.

**mercury14**

And a Hemlock.

**vipoid**

mercury14 wrote:

Necrons getting swept in CC circumvents their RP.

You're thinking of the old book - the new one doesn't have that weakness.

**mercury14**

vipoid wrote:
mercury14 wrote:

Necrons getting swept in CC circumvents their RP.

You're thinking of the old book - the new one doesn't have that weakness.

Sure it does. If my Harlies assault a group of Immortals, win combat by 2, and they eat a -3 leadership penalty from the relic plus nearby coven unit, they need to roll 5 or less or they break. And they have almost no chance to avoid being swept.

**vipoid**

mercury14 wrote:
Sure it does. If my Harlies assault a group of Immortals, win combat by 2, and they eat a -3 leadership penalty from the relic plus nearby coven unit, they need to roll 5 or less or they break. And they have almost no chance to avoid being swept.

I don't understand - how is that bypassing their RPs?

**mercury14**

vipoid wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
Sure it does. If my Harlies assault a group of Immortals, win combat by 2, and they eat a -3 leadership penalty from the relic plus nearby coven unit, they need to roll 5 or less or they break. And they have almost no chance to avoid being swept.

I don't understand - how is that bypassing their RPs?

I should have said it bypasses models altogether.

Kisses can partially bypass their RP though.

**sweetbacon**

vipoid wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
Sure it does. If my Harlies assault a group of Immortals, win combat by 2, and they eat a -3 leadership penalty from the relic plus nearby coven unit, they need to roll 5 or less or they break. And they have almost no chance to avoid being swept.

I don't understand - how is that bypassing their RPs?

It doesn't bypass it. They still get it, but the possible -5 Ld means you just have to kill one of them in CC, to make them effectively Ld 4, which makes is pretty easy to sweep them. So if I charge my Grotesquerie into a 20 man block of Warriors with D-Lord/Kryptek or whatever SC they have, all I need to do is enough wounds to make them have to test leadership. Once I force a leadership test on them, they stand a really, really good chance of getting swept. So even if I only kill one or two Warriors, that could be enough.

Due to the super resiliency of the new Necrons, sweeping them in CC seems to be the only effective way to kill them in any kind of large numbers. The Harlie/DE/CWE alliance gives us tools which makes that much easier.

**Solar Shock**

vipoid wrote:
That's a really dicey way to round.

Primarily I was kidding, but mathematically you round a .5 up in the circumstance of needing a single digit value.

sweetbacon wrote:
Due to the super resiliency of the new Necrons, sweeping them in CC seems to be the only effective way to kill them in any kind of large numbers. The Harlie/DE/CWE alliance gives us tools which makes that much easier.

Interesting, but in reality that is true for any/all units as leadership tests are. But I see what you mean with regards to necrons, rather than trying to force your way through 2 saves you can simply use CC to wipe them, as they have a low initiative anyway. Means either needing to keep the bubble as the unit forcing the checks, or as a nearby unit. Could be good fun to throw in a hemlock.

**sweetbacon**

Solar Shock wrote:
vipoid wrote:
That's a really dicey way to round.

Primarily I was kidding, but mathematically you round a .5 up in the circumstance of needing a single digit value.

sweetbacon wrote:
Due to the super resiliency of the new Necrons, sweeping them in CC seems to be the only effective way to kill them in any kind of large numbers. The Harlie/DE/CWE alliance gives us tools which makes that much easier.

Interesting, but in reality that is true for any/all units as leadership tests are. But I see what you mean with regards to necrons, rather than trying to force your way through 2 saves you can simply use CC to wipe them, as they have a low initiative anyway. Means either needing to keep the bubble as the unit forcing the checks, or as a nearby unit. Could be good fun to throw in a hemlock.

Yes, thats exactly what I meant. Trying to kill a 20 man Warrior blob which has a 4+/4++ (with Decurion), and which also re-rolls ones (possibly) through shooting will take your entire army. And even then you'll probably have to shoot everything you have it for multiple turns. And that's just one basic troops unit. Using the Ld decreasing/wounding tools at our disposal as DE/CWE/Harlequins seems like a much more efficient way to deal with Necrons now.

**vipoid**

In terms of killing a 20-man warrior block, what would you use against it in combat?

**sweetbacon**

vipoid wrote:
In terms of killing a 20-man warrior block, what would you use against it in combat?

As DE, I would use the only really viable CC unit we have, the Grotesquerie, with Succubus w/AoM, with Shadowseer w/Mask.

**vipoid**

sweetbacon wrote:
vipoid wrote:
In terms of killing a 20-man warrior block, what would you use against it in combat?

As DE, I would use the only really viable CC unit we have, the Grotesquerie, with Succubus w/AoM, with Shadowseer w/Mask.

You don't think Dark Artisan is viable?

**sweetbacon**

vipoid wrote:
sweetbacon wrote:
vipoid wrote:
In terms of killing a 20-man warrior block, what would you use against it in combat?

As DE, I would use the only really viable CC unit we have, the Grotesquerie, with Succubus w/AoM, with Shadowseer w/Mask.

You don't think Dark Artisan is viable?

Oh yeah, the DA is absolutely viable. And they would also work well as a CC unit/tarpit for Necrons. I cited the Grotesquerie as an example because I wanted the -5 Ld debuff that I get with the AoM and Shadowseer Mask artefact. Since a Shadowseer can't join the DA, the Grotesques with Succubus and Shadowseer are my preferred Ld debuffing CC unit.

**vipoid**

I hadn't actually realised the Shadowseer was an IC now - I'd assumed he was still an upgrade for a Harlequin troupe.

**sweetbacon**

You may be right. I'll have to double check that one.

**Doomaflatchi**

vipoid wrote:
I hadn't actually realised the Shadowseer was an IC now - I'd assumed he was still an upgrade for a Harlequin troupe.

Nope! New Shadowseers are IC's in the Elites slot.

**sweetbacon**

Awesome!. Thanks.

**lessthanjeff**

I've been looking into ways to sweep the necron in close combat as well. I haven't read their codex, so I am curious whether they have ways to make units fearless or stubborn before I rush into that strategy. Does anyone know if they have characters, wargear, or formation bonuses that would convey those rules?

**vipoid**

As far as I'm aware, the best they can do is reroll morale tests.