From the Void- Dark Eldar Tactica for 7th Codex

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**Jimsolo**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Jimsolo wrote:
When did they become Gargantuan? Is this another rumor that hasn't been put up on the main page of the rumor thread?

Here http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/boom-eldar-rules-tidalwave.html

That info was provided earlier in the day by a guy who took a picture of himself holding the new codex, so it's likely legit.

Cool. Looks pretty sweet. Like the change to the Hemlock big time. Freakshow lists are going to benefit from that.

**Rinkydink**

So, I am a pure DE player... I already struggle against Newcrons, and I will likely struggle against Eldar by the looks of things.

Staying positive, wwp's seem good vs the bikes. Dissies may get the nod over DL's on my raiders. Massed posion will work against the bikes too. Talos can take the hits, (To a certain extent) but will not get near them. Razorwing JF' missiles might do okay as well. The issue is, they threaten and can destroy all troops and vehicles in my army, so will be a priority target. I guess board control will be important for us. - Edit: But, then again just discovered windriders are still troops. And kept their 3+. Urgh.

It is a little annoying seeing the rumoured buffs to Banshees, as that really is what Wyches should be. (Ignore overwatch, terrain, cause fear etc.)

As for the rumoured GC WK... My best option seems to be to ignore it as much as possible and focus down the bikers I guess.

**vipoid**

Haven't you been reading this thread? New Eldar are no threat to us.

We just spam bikes, which then beat their bikes and WKs... somehow. And Gunboat Raiders, those to.

And, of course, no one would ever want to use any of our other DE units - so it's a flawless strategy and proves just how balanced Eldar are.

**SkaredCast**

Ive been reading the last few pages of this tactica thread... thought id chime in here:

- No need to get all our panties in a not, armies come and go in level of "power" and 40k is not a game that exists in a vacuum. Each game exists within the relative. And chance and probability... so there are never any definitive things.

@vipoid - for your level of participation in this thread, I am surprised at your comments, they don't seem very... tactically constructive. How do we find a solution when comments seem overly negative and dismissive? The internet gives people the opportunity to be overly negative I guess. I am in no means an expert in the forces of the Dark Kin, but a positive outlook has always helped me find a solution and help other to find something that works within their local area and against their regular opponents. It seems like you have a great knowledge about the intricacies of the game. How would you use the dark eldar if at all tactically to overcome these new challenges?

I think that a more accurate discussion about the new Eldar will really be possible within a few weeks when we start to gather some more real life experience against the new army.

Personally, I have found use within the new coven units when dealing with Gargantuans and other tough minis. The upgrade for the taloi for example is quite handy. I am nervous for the number of D things that we shall be seeing, but I think that as Dark Eldar, using allies and other detachments and formations to complement the main force will be the best way to run against certain builds.

Thoughts?

**vipoid**

SkaredCast wrote:
Ive been reading the last few pages of this tactica thread... thought id chime in here:

- No need to get all our panties in a not, armies come and go in level of "power" and 40k is not a game that exists in a vacuum. Each game exists within the relative. And chance and probability... so there are never any definitive things.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Yes, it's possible that the eldar player will roll a string of 1s, but it's equally possible that you'll roll that string of 1s instead. Personally, I'd rather side with the average, rather than hoping to win against a much stronger army by sheer luck.

SkaredCast wrote:

@vipoid - for your level of participation in this thread, I am surprised at your comments, they don't seem very... tactically constructive. How do we find a solution when comments seem overly negative and dismissive?

It's ironic that you say that, because I've found a lot of comments overly positive and optimistic, and which don't want to let little things like 'probability' ruin their fun.

It's probably just because I'm just a very cynical person, but really positive comments (especially ones which make demonstrably incorrect assumptions) tend to annoy me far more than overly negative comments. Each to his own, I guess.

SkaredCast wrote:
I am in no means an expert in the forces of the Dark Kin, but a positive outlook has always helped me find a solution and help other to find something that works within their local area and against their regular opponents.

It seems we just look at things in different ways. Frankly, I'm more than a little fed up of having to try and dig for solutions to GW's newest OP codex.

SkaredCast wrote:

Personally, I have found use within the new coven units when dealing with Gargantuans and other tough minis.

Well, Wracks actually have a ranged AP2 Fleshbane weapon. So, with a mere 1040pts of Wracks with Ossefactors (not including transports), you'll have enough shots to take down a Wraithknight. Assuming they're all in range, obviously.

Other solutions include 20 Venoms (1300pts, without passengers), or 9 Dark Lance Ravagers (1125pts)

SkaredCast wrote:

Personally, I have found use within the new coven units when dealing with Gargantuans and other tough minis. The upgrade for the taloi for example is quite handy.

But, how would a Talos ever close with a WK? Unless the WK wants to be in combat with said Talos (e.g. to make use of its S: D Sword), then it can just jump away until the talos is dead from shooting.

SkaredCast wrote:
I am nervous for the number of D things that we shall be seeing, but I think that as Dark Eldar, using allies and other detachments and formations to complement the main force will be the best way to run against certain builds.

I guess this is another area where we differ then - as I'd quite like to see allies burn in the deepest pits of hell.

But, if you like allies, I guess it's a great time - since you have full access to all these eldar goodies. The only thing you'll have to deal with is the handicap from having to include DE in an Eldar army.

**Jimsolo**

So, do you have any valid constructive advice, vipoid? As I understand it, this thread is for building up useful tactical strategies. You seem to be doing nothing but complaining non-stop, and with regard to the Eldar dex, we've got at least five threads for that going elsewhere.

Skari, any chance of getting a written tactical article on the ramifications of the new Eldar? There's a whole lot of ground to cover I suspect, both as allies and as enemies.

**vipoid**

Jimsolo wrote:
So, do you have any valid constructive advice, vipoid? As I understand it, this thread is for building up useful tactical strategies. You seem to be doing nothing but complaining non-stop, and with regard to the Eldar dex, we've got at least five threads for that going elsewhere.

My apologies, I wasn't aware that probability and realism were banned in tactics threads.

**SkaredCast**

Jimsolo- it really depends on the book first, once I have read through it and seen a few games I'll be able to write some stuff up. I'm mostly doin the video series, so I might to an eldar tactica series first, know your enemy style. Then touch on the ramifications for the game.

Now, tactically I'd like some opinions on night shields. I have started using splinter racks on larger warrior units but I findnit hard to pay the price of almost an entire new raider on upgrades... But! Last night I failed every junk save I had to make, and a lot of them were with 3's ... So ... It's got me thinking if it's worth it... There is not that much ignore cover stuff in my meta.

**SarisKhan**

SkaredCast wrote:
Jimsolo- it really depends on the book first, once I have read through it and seen a few games I'll be able to write some stuff up. I'm mostly doin the video series, so I might to an eldar tactica series first, know your enemy style. Then touch on the ramifications for the game.

Now, tactically I'd like some opinions on night shields. I have started using splinter racks on larger warrior units but I findnit hard to pay the price of almost an entire new raider on upgrades... But! Last night I failed every junk save I had to make, and a lot of them were with 3's ... So ... It's got me thinking if it's worth it... There is not that much ignore cover stuff in my meta.

4x Raider gunboats constitute the core of my DE army. I always give them NS. 3+ Jink is very effective against the most common AT weapons.

**vipoid**

SkaredCast wrote:

Now, tactically I'd like some opinions on night shields. I have started using splinter racks on larger warrior units but I findnit hard to pay the price of almost an entire new raider on upgrades... But! Last night I failed every junk save I had to make, and a lot of them were with 3's ... So ... It's got me thinking if it's worth it... There is not that much ignore cover stuff in my meta.

I find it hard to justify night shields simply because I really don't like making my Raiders more expensive than they need to be. If you've got splinter racks as well, then you're already up to 90pts - which seems like an awful lot for an AV10 open-topped skimmer. Generally, I'd prefer to have an extra raider for those points.

That being said, it might depend on how many 'spare' points you have in your list. If you have some points left, but not enough for a full squad, then it might be worth sticking night shields on some things.

Also, if your table has lots of terrain, then you may be able to make use of Night Shields without even needing to jink.

SarisKhan wrote:
4x Raider gunboats constitute the core of my DE army. I always give them NS. 3+ Jink is very effective against the most common AT weapons.

Do you give them Dark Lances or Disintegrators?

Also, do you give the blokes inside any special weapons?

**SarisKhan**

vipoid wrote:

SarisKhan wrote:
4x Raider gunboats constitute the core of my DE army. I always give them NS. 3+ Jink is very effective against the most common AT weapons.

Do you give them Dark Lances or Disintegrators?

Also, do you give the blokes inside any special weapons?

It looks like that:
10x Kabalite Warriors, 80 pts.
• 1 Raider, 90 pts. (DL, Splinter Racks, Night Shields)

Oftentimes I don't have to Jink with every Raider so those DLs have a chance to fire at full BS. They've already proven surprisingly helpful at AT duty numerous times.

Kabbies don't get any special weapons. Their duty is to kill anything with a Toughness value so TL Splinter Rifles are sufficient. Scourges get all the special weapons they want (that is HLs or HBs).

**SkaredCast**

Having the blather taken out of the kabalite unit really mitigates the cost of the night shield. 170 for the unit. That's about right and it focusses the unit to its battlefield roll. Using terrain to not have to jink with the shields is also huge especially ruins. Or presenting an angled shot and adding another +1 to the save.

I have not used my 4 haywire blaster scourge yet. Need to paint them up. Do you deploy or deep strike?

**vipoid**

SarisKhan wrote:

It looks like that:
10x Kabalite Warriors, 80 pts.
• 1 Raider, 90 pts. (DL, Splinter Racks, Night Shields)

Oftentimes I don't have to Jink with every Raider so those DLs have a chance to fire at full BS. They've already proven surprisingly helpful at AT duty numerous times.

Kabbies don't get any special weapons. Their duty is to kill anything with a Toughness value so TL Splinter Rifles are sufficient. Scourges get all the special weapons they want (that is HLs or HBs).

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

SkaredCast wrote:

I have not used my 4 haywire blaster scourge yet. Need to paint them up. Do you deploy or deep strike?

I generally deploy mine, though they have an awful record. They're infamous in my group for missing with at least half their shots, and rolling 1s to penetrate about half the time too.

**SarisKhan**

I frequently use two teams of HL Scourges. 80% of the time I DS them, unless I roll the strategic warlord trait with infiltration or fight against Tyranids (who couldn't care less about Melta and Lance USRs). They do quite well and AP1 really does explode vehicles every once in a while.

I haven't used the HB Scourges yet, but I suppose there's no need to DS. They've got a 12"+24" threat range so they can start behind BLoS and hop toward their targets. Not that DSing them is a bad idea, they don't exactly have to drop close to the target in order to be effective.

**vipoid**

SarisKhan wrote:
I frequently use two teams of HL Scourges. 80% of the time I DS them, unless I roll the strategic warlord trait with infiltration or fight against Tyranids (who couldn't care less about Melta and Lance USRs). They do quite well and AP1 really does explode vehicles every once in a while.

Do you not have problems with them scattering away from their target (or mishapping)?

**SarisKhan**

vipoid wrote:
SarisKhan wrote:
I frequently use two teams of HL Scourges. 80% of the time I DS them, unless I roll the strategic warlord trait with infiltration or fight against Tyranids (who couldn't care less about Melta and Lance USRs). They do quite well and AP1 really does explode vehicles every once in a while.

Do you not have problems with them scattering away from their target (or mishapping)?

I usually place them about 5-6" away from the target. They seldom scatter away from Melta range, 9" is awesome. Mishaps occur every now and then. Still, at least in my experience, they were successful significantly more often than not.

**Homeskillet**

SkaredCast wrote:Jimsolo- it really depends on the book first, once I have read through it and seen a few games I'll be able to write some stuff up. I'm mostly doin the video series, so I might to an eldar tactica series first, know your enemy style. Then touch on the ramifications for the game.

Now, tactically I'd like some opinions on night shields. I have started using splinter racks on larger warrior units but I findnit hard to pay the price of almost an entire new raider on upgrades... But! Last night I failed every junk save I had to make, and a lot of them were with 3's ... So ... It's got me thinking if it's worth it... There is not that much ignore cover stuff in my meta.

Skari, It's funny you mention the Nightshields question, as I've been practicing with the following list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/644789.page

Lots of Shields to keep the dark kin on the move.

SarisKhan wrote:
SkaredCast wrote:
Jimsolo- it really depends on the book first, once I have read through it and seen a few games I'll be able to write some stuff up. I'm mostly doin the video series, so I might to an eldar tactica series first, know your enemy style. Then touch on the ramifications for the game.

Now, tactically I'd like some opinions on night shields. I have started using splinter racks on larger warrior units but I findnit hard to pay the price of almost an entire new raider on upgrades... But! Last night I failed every junk save I had to make, and a lot of them were with 3's ... So ... It's got me thinking if it's worth it... There is not that much ignore cover stuff in my meta.

4x Raider gunboats constitute the core of my DE army. I always give them NS. 3+ Jink is very effective against the most common AT weapons.

Same here!

**Jimsolo**

Oof, Skari, you're killing me with the video thing.

As far as Night Shields go thought, I'm a huge fan. On Raiders or Dis Ravagers I think they are basically default equipment. I am less inclined to Jink with Lance Ravagers, so Night Shields might get dropped from them to conserve points, but usually they wind up shielded in my lists, too.

**lessthanjeff**

For Scourges, the only games I've deepstruck them in were games where my opponent had no armor values at all and I wanted them more for grabbing objectives late game. Usually I just deploy mine so that they're out of range turn one. If I'm afraid they'll be killed right away (usually just dawn of war deployment), I might put them in regular reserves where they can fly in and reach most targets just fine anyway. I tend to deploy second with my dark eldar to make careful placement choices staying out of range and putting things in reserves as needed.

**SkaredCast**

I like the idea of the deep striking scourge. But it is risky, and it takes away from a razorwing... Now, those are awesome.

**Jimsolo**

At least for anti-armor, I find the scourges to be more reliable than razorwings, but that's just me.

**Ascalam**

Same.

Scourges make great anti-tank in my lists, with a Razorwing bringing the anti-infantry pain..

**vipoid**

Jimsolo wrote:
Oof, Skari, you're killing me with the video thing.

As far as Night Shields go thought, I'm a huge fan. On Raiders or Dis Ravagers I think they are basically default equipment. I am less inclined to Jink with Lance Ravagers, so Night Shields might get dropped from them to conserve points, but usually they wind up shielded in my lists, too.

I'd hesitate to put night shields on either Ravager, tbh. Even with Disintegrators, you have no TL so you're still crippling your firepower whenever you jink.

**SarisKhan**

Razorwing Jetfighters are nice. Airborne DLs to make up for our lack of Skyfire (seriously, GW) and, let's say, Necrotoxin Missiles to drop Fleshbane hate on SM Bikers and Wolfstars. Add NS to 3+ Jink after dropping the payload.

**Solar Shock**

I haven't had to chance to field any yet, but would our own bikers fair pretty well against the elder bikes?

I was initially looking for a shooting option to overcome them, but in general the 3+ with the option to jink seems to pretty much make shooting rather ineffective. Potentially throwing out lots of MSU venoms? I mean the bikes can only choose one target, so having a good few venoms with kabs inside? Throwing horrendous amounts of poison at them? volume seems the most suitable answer, as you have little effective means of by-passing the armour with jink available.

Back to our bikes, not only can we jink ourselves, but crashing into them with caltrops would surely be effective? Plus we have HnR, whereas they don't (?). So once tied up, you could potentially keep them locked down and HnR on their turns to open them up for fire, before charging back in?

Gunboats - with dissies? The TL spliterracks for volume, while the dissie for forcing jink? You get the benefit of weight of fire for answering their 3+, while potentially the dissie's force the jinks and help mitigate their shooting next turn? - I've always wanted to run dissies..... just because disintegrating stuff is pretty cooool. But then again shooting something with DarkLight is pretty cool also.... not that cool has anything to do with dice rolling

**vipoid**

SarisKhan wrote:
Razorwing Jetfighters are nice. Airborne DLs to make up for our lack of Skyfire (seriously, GW) and, let's say, Necrotoxin Missiles to drop Fleshbane hate on SM Bikers and Wolfstars. Add NS to 3+ Jink after dropping the payload.

Why Necrotoxin missiles? Wouldn't Shatterfield missiles be better - since they're also wounding on 2s, but have Shred?

**Solar Shock**

OOOO has anyone thought;
Medusae? DS in, flamers with AP3 and no cover saves

With a blaster archon? Or solo in venoms?

**SarisKhan**

vipoid wrote:
SarisKhan wrote:
Razorwing Jetfighters are nice. Airborne DLs to make up for our lack of Skyfire (seriously, GW) and, let's say, Necrotoxin Missiles to drop Fleshbane hate on SM Bikers and Wolfstars. Add NS to 3+ Jink after dropping the payload.

Why Necrotoxin missiles? Wouldn't Shatterfield missiles be better - since they're also wounding on 2s, but have Shred?

Because Shatterfields are a paid upgrade. If there are some spare points left to get them then sure, they are better.

Solar Shock wrote:OOOO has anyone thought;
Medusae? DS in, flamers with AP3 and no cover saves With a blaster archon? Or solo in venoms?

I was going to suggest that. WWP Archon + 4 Medusae in a Venom. Probably times two.

**Ascalam**

That would work.

Or we can be naughty and borrow a few wraithguard to WWP in

The Eldar bikes will be pretty beast, but not impossible to overcome.

Landing them In CC with something would also help, but the overwatch would be brutal. Maybe see if you can soak the overwatch on some wracks or something, then hit them with a few Taloi... hmmm....

**SarisKhan**

Talos Pain Engine with a TL Splinter Cannon isn't going to die anytime soon to an equivalent pts. amount of Scatriders (5 will deal only a single Wound on average) and can unleash some Poison hurt in return. Take three, or perhaps the Corpsethief Claw. Maybe throw a Cronos with Spirit Probe somewhere there.