From the Void- Dark Eldar Tactica for 7th Codex

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**Jimsolo**

I think I will depart from the crowd and vote for 5 men with a blaster in a Venom. 120 points, fast, lots of killing power, and shaves off a bunch of points to spend elsewhere, which is always a positive with an army that does MSU as well as we do.

**War Kitten**

Ok, so I've been thinking of some lists. Would something like this work? (Don't have the book yet, just a rough depiction of units).

Succubus (Glaive, Haywire Grenades)

Trueborn (x5)- 4 Blasters (venom)

Warriors (x10)- Splinter Cannon (Raider)
Warriors (x10)-Splinter Cannon (Raider)
Warriors (x5)-Blaster (Venom)
Warriors (x5)- Blaster (Venom)

Reavers (x6)- 2 Cluster Caltrops, Blaster
Razorwing Jetfighter
Scourges (x6)- Haywire Blaster (or two)

Ravager.

Don't have the book on me, so I don't quite know how many points this would come out to be, but it uses several of the units that I like (Succubus, Kabalites, Reavers, Razorwing)

**Inevitable_Faith**

War Kitten wrote:
Ok, so I've been thinking of some lists. Would something like this work? (Don't have the book yet, just a rough depiction of units).

Succubus (Glaive, Haywire Grenades)

Trueborn (x5)- 4 Blasters (venom)

Warriors (x10)- Splinter Cannon (Raider)
Warriors (x10)-Splinter Cannon (Raider)
Warriors (x5)-Blaster (Venom)
Warriors (x5)- Blaster (Venom)

Reavers (x6)- 2 Cluster Caltrops, Blaster
Razorwing Jetfighter
Scourges (x6)- Haywire Blaster (or two)

Ravager.

Don't have the book on me, so I don't quite know how many points this would come out to be, but it uses several of the units that I like (Succubus, Kabalites, Reavers, Razorwing)

Succubus is good with glaive and haywire, another good addition I like on her is armour of misery, it's a fun little relic and not terribly expensive.
Others have spoken about kabalite warriors and trueborn, they know their stuff.
Reavers and caltrops are fun and powerful, just gotta play them smart.
Personally I like the idea of the razorwings but I've never played one, looks like fun though
Scourges, just max out on haywire in my opinion. If I remember correctly you can have like 4 or 5 haywire blasters in a unit.
Ravager is alright I think as long as you roll atleast average, I roll below average so only three lances scares me.

Good list overall I think, would be fun to play and play against.

**Jimsolo**

Scourges are best in units of 5 with 4 heat lances or haywire Blasters. Other than that, looks great!

With no book, I estimate 1361 points or so. (If you dropped the scourges to 5 and gave them 4 HWB that is.)

Any way you slice it, SOLID list.

**War Kitten**

Thank you. It was just a rough list I had in my head. I have no idea of how many points it would be. As soon as I can pick up the book I can tally it up.

**Jimsolo**

1361 if my rough estimate is correct. (So somewhere in that ballpark.)

**War Kitten**

Alright, just need to add a bit to it and then I'd have a 1500 point list. Any suggestions?

**Red Corsair**

It's your hobby, but honestly, I wouldn't spam our troops at all. Why when their is a viable option or 2 in every other spot. DE troops are not durable enough for OBSEC to matter very often. If your looking for flavor and variety I'd suggest taking one raider squad and one venom squad and then look at some grotesques, incubi, mandrakes or beastpacks also consider our monstrous creatures, they are very strong and more importantly they are one of 2 options we have that are incredibly durable, something of rare importance.

Not to beat a dead horse since I have mentioned it before in this thread, but I am not a fan of raider squads full of warriors, 190 is way too much for their output and glass jaw. Others will chime in on their output, but honestly 18 hits after rerolls amounts to 9 wounds, or 3 dead marines (42pts) and that is when your 12" away, meaning you can kiss that unit goodbye since night shields won't save you from CC. Now look at 3 Sslyth a Medusa and a Lahmaen in a dual canon venom for 175, 21 poison shots an ap3 flamer, leadership 9 and 8 T5 wounds with FNP that can actually kill and sweep things in HtH. I am not saying that is the best option either but it just illustrates that the same roll can be done on a more durable platform and actually be effective in more then one phase for cheaper. Are weakest spot is in fact our troops section.

**Jimsolo**

You can NEVER go wrong with grotesques. It might require a bit of point shaving, but 3 or 4 grots in a raider to escort your Succubus would make for a DAMN fine list.

**vipoid**

Jimsolo wrote:
You can NEVER go wrong with grotesques.

I can...

**Frozocrone**

I forgot this thread existed...kinda sums up my interest in DE at the minute.

I don't use Grotesques, but I've got a TWC mate sporting TH house-ruled at S10 and everyone else packing as much S10 to deal with him, leaving my Grotesques out to dry.

**vipoid**

Jimsolo wrote:
I think I will depart from the crowd and vote for 5 men with a blaster in a Venom. 120 points, fast, lots of killing power, and shaves off a bunch of points to spend elsewhere, which is always a positive with an army that does MSU as well as we do.

I'll second this - I find them vastly more useful to 10 Kabalites in a Raider with Splinter Racks.

War Kitten wrote:
Ok, so I've been thinking of some lists. Would something like this work? (Don't have the book yet, just a rough depiction of units).

Succubus (Glaive, Haywire Grenades)

Trueborn (x5)- 4 Blasters (venom)

Warriors (x10)- Splinter Cannon (Raider)
Warriors (x10)-Splinter Cannon (Raider)
Warriors (x5)-Blaster (Venom)
Warriors (x5)- Blaster (Venom)

Reavers (x6)- 2 Cluster Caltrops, Blaster
Razorwing Jetfighter
Scourges (x6)- Haywire Blaster (or two)

Ravager.

Don't have the book on me, so I don't quite know how many points this would come out to be, but it uses several of the units that I like (Succubus, Kabalites, Reavers, Razorwing)

Oh, I meant to say earlier - the Succubus really wants some sort of melee unit as an escort. As it is, all she can do is footslog across the board.

Frozocrone wrote:

I don't use Grotesques, but I've got a TWC mate sporting TH house-ruled at S10 and everyone else packing as much S10 to deal with him, leaving my Grotesques out to dry.

Yeah, I see a lot of S10, Force Weapons and just a lot of stuff that seems to shred grotesques even in melee.

**Frozocrone**

It's not even S10 sometimes, it's just pure rate of fire.

TWC sometimes have Lightning claws and WS5 from detachment and it's 'why are the Covens so slow'.

Also rate of fire. Got a Necron buddy with obscene amount of Destroyers and Doomsday Arks. Also Tau with HYMP Broadsides from old Firebase. He wants to get the Ta'unar.

I feel disheartened when I play DE in my meta, it shouldn't be like that. I usually play Orks these days, at least I can have a laugh when I lose (frequently, because Orks

)

**vipoid**

Frozocrone wrote:
It's not even S10 sometimes, it's just pure rate of fire.

TWC sometimes have Lightning claws and WS5 from detachment and it's 'why are the Covens so slow'.

Also rate of fire. Got a Necron buddy with obscene amount of Destroyers and Doomsday Arks. Also Tau with HYMP Broadsides from old Firebase. He wants to get the Ta'unar.

Indeed. More than once I've lost an entire Grotesque squad to a unit of 5 Skitarii Ruststalkers.

Frozocrone wrote:

I feel disheartened when I play DE in my meta, it shouldn't be like that. I usually play Orks these days, at least I can have a laugh when I lose (frequently, because Orks )

The one thing that's cheered me up recently is the Eldar Corsair rules (my God! HQs with actual wargear, and troops with more than 2 special weapons.

). The depressing thing is that I started building a Corsair list to ally with my DE... and realised that I didn't actually need any DE.

**Frozocrone**

I'm headed to Warhammer World soon with a bunch of friends. I'll have a flick through and see whether to commit or not

**DirtyDeeds**

Don't take any shooting weapons on the Reavers, due to their fragile armor save you'll almost always be Jinking with them.

**vipoid**

Oh, another thing regarding that list - you don't want more than 5 Scourges, and 4 of them should have special weapons (it's literally the only reason to take them).

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Don't take any shooting weapons on the Reavers, due to their fragile armor save you'll almost always be Jinking with them.

I actually like shooting weapons on Reavers, though I also prefer squads of 3. A Blaster or heat lance makes them a bit more of a threat, and means your opponent will probably want to dedicate resources to at least make them jink. Also, if (for whatever reason) you don't want to commit them to combat yet, they can pull some JSJ fun with their jetbikes.

**Red Corsair**

My FAVORITE use for reavers is to flat out them surrounding a transport an inch away and then use high AP weapons to kill it, forcing everyone in it to burn, I have done this more times then I can count and have eliminated several PITA characters this way as well. I generally don't buy weapons for them beyond caltrops for that reason, since I generally am turboing.

@Frozocone- the Taunar is absolutely busted. That thing is not priced right yet and when it gets published in a book I am positive (praying) it gets nerfed like the R'varna. I played one at a GT, 1850, and I killed it but apparantly I am the only guy at that local area that has managed it, so when people were coming over and enthusiastically cheering me on at first I thought they were patronizing me LOL! I killed it with a Ghost Glaive Wraith knight with no guns, a lot of strategy and even more luck. I failed a 5 inch charge after weathering its fire for a turn but I was smart enough to turbo boost a jetseer behind terrain turn one and used him to tie it up in combat, I then preceeded to pass every save required on my 2 wound left WK as he shoot it with a body guard buffmander shadowsun bomb and his hammerheads. 10 wounds on a T9 creaure with a 2+ 4++ 5+++ is beyond idiotic and I am sure we could play another 10 games and I wouldn't kill it first again. Its only weakness is tarpitting it like I did, which is tough since it has 16 TL S5 shots at BS2 on overwatch! I hate the model too, it looks to toyish in person.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry about the tangent, I hear Tau'nar and my B-hole puckers

**Frozocrone**

It's cool. As I've said my main army is Orks. I've grown accustomed to losing. I'm primarily a painter these days, I'm devoting more of my game time to infinity. Aro s are too good :p

**War Kitten**

So what's a decent unit to put the Succubus in? I had originally planned to throw her in a squad of Wyches (as I'm probably getting the Wych Cult Shardstorm as an Xmas Gift). Maybe Incubi in a Venom/Raider?

**ALEXisAWESOME**

Grotesques, by far. If you look at each units weaknesses:

Grotesques:
- Have no reliable AP, they have trouble breaking through power armoured units.
-They have terrible leadership.
-They have mediocre initiative for sweeping advances

Succubus:
-Low toughness and strength (alleviated by Archite Glaive)
-Has claws, but no defense. She needs some (in this case literally) meat shield.
-She is to expensive to have bogged down dealing with chaff

They both play to each others strengths and weaknesses. Succubus brings reliable AP, high leadership and initiative while the Grots are a great meat shield, are great at clearing out chaff and grant majority toughness 5.

Take 4 Grotesques with a Succubus in a Raider. Best Hunks of Man Meat a girl could ask for.

**Jimsolo**

No unit is perfect, obviously, but Grotesques are damn near. (Their only weakness is ID/S10, and if you run them in a Grotesquerie even that might be mitigated.)

I've had them s--t the bed exactly once, and I've run them almost every game since last December. (The one time was the first game I played against the new Ork codex, and got caught with my pants down against that superbuzzsawaxe.)

**vipoid**

Yeah, I'll second grotesques as a good bodyguard for a Succubus.

My second choice would probably be Incubi, for more S4 AP2 attacks.

**Red Corsair**

Definitely Grots, that said Incubi are good without the succubus, just run 3-4 with a klaivex and watch then dance from combat squad to combat squad usually finishing their victim off in the opponents turn ideally. Avoid large squads as they will overkill the enemy and then spend a turn in the open.

**War Kitten**

The only problem I have with Grots is the high cost per model (as a Marine player it horrifies me). Can Incubi still work relatively well (especially in lower point games) or do I need to just stick with the Grots. And does anyone know if Lelith is still decent?

**ALEXisAWESOME**

High cost per model scares you, so your first thoughts are Incubi? Grotesques are much more durable then Incubi, especially in low point games where Strength 10 is very, very rare. T5 and FnP prove a save vs almost everything, and 3 wounds per model makes them very efficient points per wound. The real kicker is Rampage that tips them over the edge of good.

Incubi can work as a bodyguard, but they suffer from a common problem with HQ's. What does a Succubus do that 2/3 more Incubi couldn't? She brings more AP 2, more Str 4, higher Ws and I but for relatively high cost (100pts for a decked out Succubus-ish) and she does nothing to fix the Incubi's problems (lack of grenades, can be tarpitted by chaff) and they do little to help her.

Lelith suffers from the flaw that her niche trait (Ignore armour) can be emulated with an Archite Glaive, that also improves strength.

Long Story Short, both Incubi and Lelith can be used and it won't be overly detrimental. But for pure efficiency and synergy, A Succubus with Grotesques simply outclasses the other options.

**War Kitten**

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
High cost per model scares you, so your first thoughts are Incubi? Grotesques are much more durable then Incubi, especially in low point games where Strength 10 is very, very rare. T5 and FnP prove a save vs almost everything, and 3 wounds per model makes them very efficient points per wound. The real kicker is Rampage that tips them over the edge of good.

Incubi can work as a bodyguard, but they suffer from a common problem with HQ's. What does a Succubus do that 2/3 more Incubi couldn't? She brings more AP 2, more Str 4, higher Ws and I but for relatively high cost (100pts for a decked out Succubus-ish) and she does nothing to fix the Incubi's problems (lack of grenades, can be tarpitted by chaff) and they do little to help her.

Lelith suffers from the flaw that her niche trait (Ignore armour) can be emulated with an Archite Glaive, that also improves strength.

Long Story Short, both Incubi and Lelith can be used and it won't be overly detrimental. But for pure efficiency and synergy, A Succubus with Grotesques simply outclasses the other options.

I never did say I was too smart

. Ok then, Grots it is.

**vipoid**

War Kitten wrote:
The only problem I have with Grots is the high cost per model (as a Marine player it horrifies me). Can Incubi still work relatively well (especially in lower point games) or do I need to just stick with the Grots.

I certainly share your concern in that regard - especially as someone who prefers MSU.

The thing is though, you can have a reasonable squad of Grotesques with just 3 Grots (115pts with an Aberration). When you compare that to 5 Incubi with a Klaivex (which is the minimum I'd be comfortable running), they're just 5pts more.

War Kitten wrote:
And does anyone know if Lelith is still decent?

Was she ever decent? To my knowledge, she's sucked since I started DE back in 5th, and the new book changed bugger all in that regard. She costs 150pts for a model with no support abilities, T3, no EW and a 4++ (3++ in combat). So, she's a glass cannon, right? Nope. S3 kills any possibility of that. She can get a lot of attacks, but when you're losing 2/3 of them even against T4... you've got serious issues. So, we have a 150pt beatstick who is stupidly fragile and pathetic in melee.

Sorry to disappoint you.

**War Kitten**

War Kitten wrote:
ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
High cost per model scares you, so your first thoughts are Incubi? Grotesques are much more durable then Incubi, especially in low point games where Strength 10 is very, very rare. T5 and FnP prove a save vs almost everything, and 3 wounds per model makes them very efficient points per wound. The real kicker is Rampage that tips them over the edge of good.

Incubi can work as a bodyguard, but they suffer from a common problem with HQ's. What does a Succubus do that 2/3 more Incubi couldn't? She brings more AP 2, more Str 4, higher Ws and I but for relatively high cost (100pts for a decked out Succubus-ish) and she does nothing to fix the Incubi's problems (lack of grenades, can be tarpitted by chaff) and they do little to help her.

Lelith suffers from the flaw that her niche trait (Ignore armour) can be emulated with an Archite Glaive, that also improves strength.

Long Story Short, both Incubi and Lelith can be used and it won't be overly detrimental. But for pure efficiency and synergy, A Succubus with Grotesques simply outclasses the other options.

Ok then. Back to the drawing board

**ALEXisAWESOME**

She is aces in a challenge, and she has Rampage like the Grotesques do so as long as you always charge into units above 5 models (shouldn't be too hard) they will put out a lot of attacks.

But try not to make her your Warlord, her trait is abysmal (yeay, Ws10! Super useful vs...Keepers of Secrets?) and expect her to die. So have a secondary Haemonculus stay back to conserve that Warlord point.