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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 09:20:20
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Sgt. Harker is the most useless unit entry in the Astra Militarum codex. Arguably, he is the most overcosted and useless character in the entire Warhammer 40,000 meta right now. What exactly was GW thinking when they kept his points cost the same, but stripped him off all his abilities (except relentless) and in turn only made his weapon rending. At best, he should cost 25 points with the named special character tax thrown in.
While 6th edition did give him some buffs for being a character (precision shot) it also brought him in more danger due to the new take on wound allocation and being challenged, and also made his FNP worse. 7th edition took away the former and only made things worse.
So did GW do a hiccup here or was this deliberate? I'm surprised the Errata didnt fix this.
Those of you who used to play him in the old IG dex...would you ask your game group to continue playing him using the old rules or what is your take on this?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/05 09:24:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 09:51:13
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Tunneling Trygon
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I've been considering playing him in the new codex. I can look at it with fresh eyes since I wasnt playing in 6th and Imperial Guard wasn't a blip on my radar back in 3rd when I did play. So 55pts for a Relentless Heavy Bolter replacing the inherently stupid Sergeant position is a touch expensive but worth it to me. I'll make every excuse to get rid of the mandatory pistol/sword combo that takes away valuable shots in this very shooty edition. Building a Veteran Squad around him with Plasma weaponry up the wazoo, staying mobile and essentially being a high damage output squad for dealing with 4+ Armor units, or even Terminators if need be, makes me not mind in the slightest. A 150pt~ squad able to dish out the shooting strength of units twice the size and cost and dropped by a Valkyrie where I want or need it for some immediate fire means What's-His-Face could have a place in my list.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 09:55:29
Subject: Re:A case for sergeant Harker
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Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator
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Would you mount him in a vehicle then, Shark? Foot-slogging veteran squads don't last long for me. Then again, if you're paying 55 pts for a relentless heavy bolter, you're already getting one plus a snap-firing multi-laser or vice versa from a chimera.
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2,500 points
2,500 points
1,500 points
41-31 since returning to the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 09:56:14
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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SharkoutofWata wrote:I've been considering playing him in the new codex. I can look at it with fresh eyes since I wasnt playing in 6th and Imperial Guard wasn't a blip on my radar back in 3rd when I did play. So 55pts for a Relentless Heavy Bolter replacing the inherently stupid Sergeant position is a touch expensive but worth it to me. I'll make every excuse to get rid of the mandatory pistol/sword combo that takes away valuable shots in this very shooty edition. Building a Veteran Squad around him with Plasma weaponry up the wazoo, staying mobile and essentially being a high damage output squad for dealing with 4+ Armor units, or even Terminators if need be, makes me not mind in the slightest. A 150pt~ squad able to dish out the shooting strength of units twice the size and cost and dropped by a Valkyrie where I want or need it for some immediate fire means What's-His-Face could have a place in my list.
Except he had all that, plus a FNP save, plus granted stealth to his entire squad (without you having to pay points for the ability like you would otherwise do) + granted infiltrate and also granted move through cover for the same points cost.
Only reason why I'm so bothered with Harker is because he has a really cool model that I can't use as counts-as for anything else in the IG army except maybe putting him on a large base and using as a HWT with another guy modeled to stand around with nothing to do since Harker's doing the holding and the firing of the HB all at once.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/05 09:57:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 10:04:18
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Tunneling Trygon
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Valkyrie preferred but no, I wouldn't put him in a Chimera. That wouldn't do much good with the lasgun arrays. I'd consider playing musical Dedicated Transports with an Inqusition Chimera so Harker gets a Psybolt Chimera with 5 shooting out of the 'top hatch' instead of using the lasguns on the sides. That would give the Chimera a Rending Heavy Bolter, a S6 Heavy Bolter and two more Snap Shot Bolters (mounted and heavy weapon team) as well as the three Plasma Guns from the squad itself.
I'm new to AM and thinking of them alongside Inquisiton so I don't REALLY know what I'm talking about. I'm just spitballing a pair of options here. It's worrying that a more experienced AM player is saying he's one of the worst available. I thought it was a good deal but like I said, I am quite new to the Guard.
I get the Nerf Bat hits things hard. I'm a Nid player from 3rd. I understand it better than most. RIP my poor Genestealers... But looking at it without what it used to be says its a Sergeant with Look Out, Sir, a Heavy Weapon that it can move and shoot with and makes the Sergeant useful for something. Fresh eyes make anything better in this game. I don't have to remember the glory days.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/05 10:07:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 10:09:48
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Douglas Bader
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SharkoutofWata wrote:I'll make every excuse to get rid of the mandatory pistol/sword combo that takes away valuable shots in this very shooty edition.
But this doesn't make any sense given Harker's obscene point cost. You're paying 55 points to exchange a laspistol for a heavy boler when you could just buy a Sentinel/Salamander/etc and get a laspistol AND a heavy bolter (and potentially a third gun as well). Even if your fast attack slots are full you can take most of a Wyvern, buy a Chimera for a squad that didn't have one already, etc. Pretty much anything you spend 55 points on will give you more shots than Harker.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 15:07:50
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Peregrine wrote: SharkoutofWata wrote:I'll make every excuse to get rid of the mandatory pistol/sword combo that takes away valuable shots in this very shooty edition.
But this doesn't make any sense given Harker's obscene point cost. You're paying 55 points to exchange a laspistol for a heavy boler when you could just buy a Sentinel/Salamander/etc and get a laspistol AND a heavy bolter (and potentially a third gun as well). Even if your fast attack slots are full you can take most of a Wyvern, buy a Chimera for a squad that didn't have one already, etc. Pretty much anything you spend 55 points on will give you more shots than Harker.
This is it right here.
You are basically paying 55 points for a crappier assault cannon on a model that is T3 +5 save. There no way in hell it is worth it. Harker went from being a niche upgrade to be a completely useless one. It is probably in the running for worst upgrades in the game right now. They also killed his fluff as well. It was stupid to even include him in the book.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 19:14:23
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Just use his model as a sgt with bolter. He's not at all worth 55 points, not even close.
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"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun
2500 points
1500 points
1250 points
1000 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 19:40:21
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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He can be...ok with a Sniper/HB Squad with Camo Gear and an ADL [Quad Gun is Optional]. Note the key word Ok.
We just House Ruled him that he give his Squad Relentless and the problem was solved there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/05 20:46:15
Subject: Re:A case for sergeant Harker
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Friend of mine version of SGT Harker. Retired now
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Kamikaze Pilot
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/05 20:46:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/06 02:55:01
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
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I have the most badass (imo...) conversion of Harker from the Heavy Stubber toting Cultist from DV all ready to use for my Traitor Guard force when.... BAM! **** Canned.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/06 02:59:09
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Heroic Senior Officer
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As cool as my Harker (left) is, he is not worth the points. Didnt even get to use him.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/06 02:59:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/06 04:01:45
Subject: Re:A case for sergeant Harker
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Dipping With Wood Stain
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Losing Harker's extra rules was irritating but the loss of Marbo was even worse. After reading the codex it felt like GW pulled their foot back to Australia and delivered a precision shot roshambo.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/06 11:44:08
Subject: Re:A case for sergeant Harker
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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He's probably waiting for a dataslate along with Marbo.
It's like Zaggy in ork codex. You look at him and think: well, he could have been nice if he provided something more and didn't take up an HQ slot. And than BAM! A dataslate. And he's now worth it. Automatically Appended Next Post: Swastakowey wrote:
As cool as my Harker (left) is, he is not worth the points. Didnt even get to use him.
Awesome painjob and...the instrument.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/06 11:44:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/06 13:03:15
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
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I converted up a Harker to look like Vulcan Raven for my Metal Gear Guard army, he used to be awesome infiltrating with 2x HBs and 3x Plasma Guns with 2+ cover saves... basically useless now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/06 22:46:08
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Andilus Greatsword wrote:I converted up a Harker to look like Vulcan Raven for my Metal Gear Guard army, he used to be awesome infiltrating with 2x HBs and 3x Plasma Guns with 2+ cover saves... basically useless now. 
He was a weird hidden gem in the book. Not super powered, but not many people knew about him. That extreme cover plus infiltrate made him a good replacement for the old chimera and the ability to take all those weapons made a pretty great squad.
With him and marbo gone and straken made so expensive, they made it so hard to make a Catachan army now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/06 22:50:13
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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I believe Harker was written for 5th edition when loading up a character with Infiltrate inside a DT didnt make it infiltrate as well.
Dont have the rules with me, but 6th and 7th allow DTs to infiltrate with a unit, dont they?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/06 22:50:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/07 00:06:15
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Tunneling Trygon
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Just want to add, officially writing Harker off for an Armored Sentinel with an Autocannon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/07 00:24:26
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Haha youre right. Armored Sentinels are ridiculously cheap - too cheap, IMO - in the new codex. And an autocannon is better than a HB and arguably on par with a rending HB,
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/07 14:45:30
Subject: A case for sergeant Harker
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Humorless Arbite
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I miss Harker. GW knows what they did though, the updated force requisition tool in the iBook codex will not let you select him.
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Voxed from Salamander 84-24020
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