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2014/10/05 11:02:44
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
18th century, North America. Amidst the chaos and violence of the French and Indian War, Shay Patrick Cormac, a fearless young member of the Assassin Brotherhood, undergoes a dark transformation that will forever shape the future of the American colonies. After a dangerous mission gone tragically wrong, Shay turns his back on the Assassins who, in response, attempt to end his life. Cast aside by those he once called brothers, Shay sets out on a mission to wipe out all who turned against him and ultimately become the most feared Assassin hunter in history.
Introducing Assassin's Creed Rogue, the darkest chapter in the Assassin's Creed franchise yet. As Shay, you will experience the slow transformation from Assassin to Assassin Hunter. Follow your own creed and set off on an extraordinary journey through New York City, the wild river valley, and far away to the icy cold waters of the North Atlantic in pursuit of your ultimate goal to bring down the Assassins.
I think it looks pretty good, the plot sounds decent, and it's nice that they're giving us last-gen peasants one last game in the series (although Unity, Halo and Arkham push me towards wanting an XBone more each time I see the trailers )
However, to get to what I wanted to discuss, a lot of the early comments on this are moaning that the gameplay, UI and graphics are 'no better than', and in many cases a direct port from, Black Flag. So, the question is, is that a bad thing?
Personally I think Black Flag is just about as close to a perfect game as I'll ever play: the world is huge and immersive, the graphics are stunning, the mechanics are fluid and sound, and the UI is simple, easy to follow and does what it had to.
So, is it lazy that the game hasn't been 'updated' mechanically or graphically, or is it just a case of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'? Personally, I'm in the latter camp: there's absolutely nothing I would change about Black Flag, so to me, I'd rather see a new story on the same engine then have the graphics, UI or Mechanics changed for the hell of it.
2014/10/05 11:53:07
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's lazy, because it's kinda Black Flag again, but that doesn't mean it won't be good. I just wish there was a PC release.
I agree. It is oh so lazy even for a series that is defined by it's laziness. (I mean come on what the buck was up with revelations.) On the other hand, I haven't gotten enough of the sailing ships bit. I really want to see the black flag idea spun off into it it's own thing. Prates! only with a more inmate camera.
2014/10/05 20:51:27
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/05 20:51:33
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/10/05 21:06:00
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
To be honest, you can do hours on end of pirate stuff in Black Flag without touching the assassin stuff, so while an out and out pirate game would be great (and lose the crappy modern day bits from AC as well) I'm not sure it's needed.
Give me the opportunity to play as Captain Jack Sparrow and fight skeletons and the Kraken, on the other hand, and I'm sold!
2014/10/05 21:07:30
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
As long as I didn't have to actually play AS PotC characters I want to play my own character instead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/05 21:07:39
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/10/05 21:48:57
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
Paradigm wrote: To be honest, you can do hours on end of pirate stuff in Black Flag without touching the assassin stuff, so while an out and out pirate game would be great (and lose the crappy modern day bits from AC as well) I'm not sure it's needed.
Give me the opportunity to play as Captain Jack Sparrow and fight skeletons and the Kraken, on the other hand, and I'm sold!
Melissia wrote: As long as I didn't have to actually play AS PotC characters I want to play my own character instead.
I just kind of want something more sandbox simulation. Well an open world, AC has always been very directed. You have only a limited ability to pick your upgrades, your story is set, and a good chunk of the game is tutorial. I want the ability to really customize my character and game play style. You know like let me name my own ship and choose what weapons I have. Like maybe I don't want a mortar, Did you ever think of that !? Oh ya and a nice character creator would be nice too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/05 22:01:31
2014/10/05 22:34:10
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
I just want this series to end. I don't want to be some stupidly powerful warlord within the assassins, I just want to be sent to kill stuff. Like the beginning of the Dark Brotherhood questline in Skyrim. When you were just an epic assassin it was awesome.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/10/06 12:07:42
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
I love how people think designing an entire game from conception to deployment is 'lazy' because they use some of the same aspects of their previous games.
I'm filing this under 'if it ain't broke...'
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2014/10/06 12:50:31
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
Frankenberry wrote: I love how people think designing an entire game from conception to deployment is 'lazy' because they use some of the same aspects of their previous games.
Reusing assets/an engine is prudent, as it amortises costs when developing new games. Rogue just looks like Black Flag: Again!. As I said, that doesn't mean it will be bad (Black Flag was quite good), but it does make it lazy.
The franchise is just kind of out of ideas. I am trying to think of anything actually new in the latest 2 games. Most elements are ports and reskins of elements we have seen before
0004/10/06 15:18:57
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
Frankenberry wrote: I love how people think designing an entire game from conception to deployment is 'lazy' because they use some of the same aspects of their previous games.
Reusing assets/an engine is prudent, as it amortises costs when developing new games. Rogue just looks like Black Flag: Again!. As I said, that doesn't mean it will be bad (Black Flag was quite good), but it does make it lazy.
I never said it was lazy, but in terms of offering something new.
A game should take at least 2-5 years to make. Making a game every year is just stupid. it may maximize profits but it also slowly whittles away at the game itself. And destroys it.
Personally I rather there be 2-5 years to make those games, and we would see a much better assassin creed games and a much better storyline.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/10/06 15:40:04
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
nomotog wrote: The franchise is just kind of out of ideas. I am trying to think of anything actually new in the latest 2 games. Most elements are ports and reskins of elements we have seen before
I'm not sure about the series as a whole, as I've only player 3 and 4, but between those, 4 added:
Open world naval stuff
Diving at sea(I think this was in 1 mission on 3)
Harpooning
New weapons (multi-pistols, blowpipe, and mortars,chase cannon and fire barrels for ships)
Ship boarding
Along with the mechanical and graphical improvements and an extensive new plot, I think that's enough to be getting on with. This is why I'm happy with the new one and don't really consider it lazy; I can't really see any changes that they could implement that would actually improve the gameplay, and not just be a change for the sake of it. I'd much rather have a new plot/character builton an engine that really is almost flawless than a bunch of pointless changes.
2014/10/06 16:04:47
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
A game should take at least 2-5 years to make. Making a game every year is just stupid. it may maximize profits but it also slowly whittles away at the game itself. And destroys it.
So you're saying that there's an element of diminishing returns with these sorts of things?
Asherian Command wrote: Personally I rather there be 2-5 years to make those games, and we would see a much better assassin creed games and a much better storyline.
Thing is, they do. When you look at annual game franchises (like CoD and AssCreed), these are games that take 2-3 years to make each, but they have multiple teams working on them. Ubisoft has more offices around the world than most countries do embassies. They have all these teams working on these games, so it's not Ubisoft making 1 game per year, it's one element of Ubisoft making 1 game every three years, and another element making another game every 3 years, and so on. Activision has 3 studios working on CoD games so that each studio gets three years to make the next game, but they're staggered so that there's still one a year.
Paradigm wrote: I'm not sure about the series as a whole, as I've only player 3 and 4, but between those, 4 added:
Open world naval stuff Diving at sea(I think this was in 1 mission on 3) Harpooning New weapons (multi-pistols, blowpipe, and mortars,chase cannon and fire barrels for ships) Ship boarding
Yeah but you can't have that in every game. Set the game in Ancient Egypt and that naval stuff goes away in favour of... building pyramids?
And Rogue doesn't add any of that because it's already there. Changing the adversaries from Templars to Assassins is about the only innovative thing (and I use that word loosely) in there that I can see (he has an air-rifle as well, but that appears to do the same thing the blow-dart did in Black Flag).
Now, again, this doesn't mean it's going to be bad, but it does make it lazy.
Unity on the other hand, well that's a whole different story. But the OP asked about Rogue.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/06 16:19:37
Thing is, they do. When you look at annual game franchises (like CoD and AssCreed), these are games that take 2-3 years to make each, but they have multiple teams working on them. Ubisoft has more offices around the world than most countries do embassies. They have all these teams working on these games, so it's not Ubisoft making 1 game per year, it's one element of Ubisoft making 1 game every three years, and another element making another game every 3 years, and so on. Activision has 3 studios working on CoD games so that each studio gets three years to make the next game, but they're staggered so that there's still one a year.
I actually did not know that.
Huh. Whats their excuse for writing horrible horrible story writing then?
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/10/06 17:29:50
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
Paradigm wrote: Oh, I see, you're referring to the new/not yet out ones. Out of interest, then, what would you add to make them 'different enough'?
And one big new thing on Unity is campaign co-op, which none of the others have had as far as I know.
Multiplayer has been around sense brotherhood and they even has a co-op wolf pack thing in AC3. Also Co-Op itself has been around for a very long time. The concept is not new or under served. I don't really think the Co-Op is going to be a big game changer.
It's been practically dozens of games by now. You get a new one every year. I don't know if there is much you can do to spice things up. I have one idea for like a super hero assassin creed. Set in the deep past, you would play a prehistory barbarian who encountered a piece of eden that you kept used and learned more about through out the game gaining new powers. I think that a every old setting could be a fresh direction in setting. You have very few games set that far back. The PoE powers could make for some new gameplay, you now have excuse to add in completely new abilities Possession, teleportation, setting things on fire with your mind.
My other idea is to make a game that is more like what AC3 was advertised as. Lets actually do the big battles. The idea is open world RTS. Think brutal legend , only a way bigger map and you know not as stylist. You would be directing armies around a big open map all still from that close up third person camera. The idea is that a lot of old AC tropes could interact well with this. You home base could be upgraded to unlock new units. Vantage points would reveal more of the map, but could also be used to direct troops at a longer range. The brotherhood leveling mechanic can make a return with commanders you can recruit and level to add new abilities to your army. The game would be about taking over different out posts forts and towns. This idea is far too big to realistically do, but it's a fun dream.
Thing is, they do. When you look at annual game franchises (like CoD and AssCreed), these are games that take 2-3 years to make each, but they have multiple teams working on them. Ubisoft has more offices around the world than most countries do embassies. They have all these teams working on these games, so it's not Ubisoft making 1 game per year, it's one element of Ubisoft making 1 game every three years, and another element making another game every 3 years, and so on. Activision has 3 studios working on CoD games so that each studio gets three years to make the next game, but they're staggered so that there's still one a year.
I actually did not know that.
Huh. Whats their excuse for writing horrible horrible story writing then?
Business concerns. I think if they only needed to make AC1 AC2 then AC3, they could have had a nice story, but they needed to find new excuses to pump out more and more games.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/06 17:33:33
2014/10/06 17:33:47
Subject: Assassin's Creed Rogue: lazy design, or 'if it ain't broke'?
Frankenberry wrote: I love how people think designing an entire game from conception to deployment is 'lazy' because they use some of the same aspects of their previous games.
They rerelease the same game every year with some minor updates and charge full price for it. Every new Assassin's Creed game is essentially an expansion pack for the last game in the series. But they still charge you $60 for it. Maybe I'm crazy, but when I'm paying full retail, I expect a bit minor than tweaks/updates.
Frankenberry wrote: I love how people think designing an entire game from conception to deployment is 'lazy' because they use some of the same aspects of their previous games.
They rerelease the same game every year with some minor updates and charge full price for it. Every new Assassin's Creed game is essentially an expansion pack for the last game in the series. But they still charge you $60 for it. Maybe I'm crazy, but when I'm paying full retail, I expect a bit minor than tweaks/updates.
Sounds pretty lazy.
The worst part, is that even though it's the same game they won't let you skip the tutorial. That little detail just makes things all the worst because you end up spending most of your time being reminded about the old rather then playing with the new stuff.
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