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So this weekend, my opponent played this in the following way:

1. Roll Casting Dice
2. Sacrificed 3 dudes to get get another dice to make the spell go off
4. Dispel Dice are rolled and Dispel the spell
5. Sacrificed more dudes to roll more dice to beat my dispel

Is this correct order of operations for this Item?...It seemed kind of hanky to me that he could add more after I rolled to dispel, considering i couldnt then add more dice to dispel.

Yeah, that's a no no. You sacrifice before you roll the dice.
Once the dice are rolled, you're done knifing.

-Matt

No. You sacrifice ONE model. It clearly states so in the rules. This is all done before dispel dice.

so to be clear you can only sacrifice one model per spell as well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks someone just sent me the syntax!

"Once per casting attempt, after the casting dice are rolled but before dispel attempt is made, the bearer of this magic item can sacrifice one model in her unit.."

Yeah you can sacrifice more than one. If the first guy to die doesnt give a dice, you can keep knifing. You can only add one power dice to a casting attempt though

 japehlio wrote:
Yeah you can sacrifice more than one. If the first guy to die doesnt give a dice, you can keep knifing. You can only add one power dice to a casting attempt though

The rules say you can sacrifice one model. If you roll 3 or less, then you can try again. One guy per cast.

Wrong. The rules actually state
"On a 3 or less, not enough power, you can immediately sacrifice another model and roll again or accept original casting."

So, you can keep killing guys to try and get the extra die.

 japehlio wrote:
Wrong. The rules actually state
"On a 3 or less, not enough power, you can immediately sacrifice another model and roll again or accept original casting."

So, you can keep killing guys to try and get the extra die.

Correct. And you can only get ONE extra die, and it's before any dispel attempt. In fact, I'm not aware of ANY item/ability that allows you to add to a casting value AFTER the dispel roll.

 japehlio wrote:
Wrong. The rules actually state
"On a 3 or less, not enough power, you can immediately sacrifice another model and roll again or accept original casting."

So, you can keep killing guys to try and get the extra die.

You're still limited to a single sacrifice. You can only kill one model. And you've misquoted the rule.

Here is the correct rule:

"Once per casting attempt, after the casting ice are rolled, but before a dispel attempt is made, the bearer of this magic item can sacrifice one model in her unit."

"On a 4+ the sorceress gains an extra power dice that must be rolled and added to the casting result; dispel attempts can be made and the spell resolved. On a roll of 3 or less, the sacrifice has not generated enough power- you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again, or accept the original result."

If you roll the 4+, and kill a model, you're done. You get your power dice for that casting attempt. You only get to choose another model to sacrifice if you don't get the dice.

Actually you can, as you point out , kill more than one model - if you only roll a 3 or less, youre given the chance to kill another. SO your statement that "you can only kill one model" is incorrect.

You can only ever gain one dice to add to the cast, and never after a dispel attempt, but you certainly can kill more than one model.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Actually you can, as you point out , kill more than one model - if you only roll a 3 or less, youre given the chance to kill another. SO your statement that "you can only kill one model" is incorrect.

You can only ever gain one dice to add to the cast, and never after a dispel attempt, but you certainly can kill more than one model.

Wait, never mind.You can kill a second model, but you can only sacrifice one model once per casting attempt. As per the first few lines.

Nope, you do indeed sacrifice another -
"...you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again"

Each killing is a sacrifice, but can only ever result in one dice being added. You can have multiple sacrifices iff every preceding sacrifice dice roll was a 3 or less.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Nope, you do indeed sacrifice another -
"...you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again"

Each killing is a sacrifice, but can only ever result in one dice being added. You can have multiple sacrifices iff every preceding sacrifice dice roll was a 3 or less.

But as per the rules, once per casting attempt, the bearer can sacrifice one model.

Yes, nobody is debating that point. But also, AS PER THE RULE, if the model you sacrificed doesnt generate a power die (3 or less), you can choose to immediately sacrifice ANOTHER model to roll again.
If however the sacrifice generates a dice, then you CANNOT sacrifice another to get extra dice. Once you get the power die, no more sacrifices may be made on that attempt.

 japehlio wrote:
Yes, nobody is debating that point. But also, AS PER THE RULE, if the model you sacrificed doesnt generate a power die (3 or less), you can choose to immediately sacrifice ANOTHER model to roll again.
If however the sacrifice generates a dice, then you CANNOT sacrifice another to get extra dice. Once you get the power die, no more sacrifices may be made on that attempt.

Which is the problem. If you've not rolled the 4+ you've still sacrificed the one model.

So you've reached the once per casting attempt you can sacrifice one model.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Nope, you do indeed sacrifice another -
"...you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again"

Each killing is a sacrifice, but can only ever result in one dice being added. You can have multiple sacrifices iff every preceding sacrifice dice roll was a 3 or less.

But as per the rules, once per casting attempt, the bearer can sacrifice one model.

Except where it states you can sacrifice another. In the rule I have quoted again, after you wrote it

Once per casting attempt you can sacrifice one model. If you dont roll a 4+ you can sacrifice another model. If yo udont roll a 4+ you can sacrifice another model.

I'm not seeing the disconnect here - yes, the rule starts by saying its one model, but then gives yo a specific allowance to sacrifice another. Its even called a sacrifice.

So you sacrifice one model. You then roll the 3. Sacrificing a second model takes you past the limitation the item itself imposes.

You're only allowed to sacrifice ONE model per attempt to cast. Regardless of the roll for the power dice.

"...you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again"

So when it specifically states you can sacrifice another, you cannot do this?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
"...you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again"

So when it specifically states you can sacrifice another, you cannot do this?

Where does it override the one model cap? It says you can sacrifice another, you're still limited to one.

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. It overrides the cap of one right as it says "sacrifice ANOTHER model".

The "cap" of of one is there to enforce that it is done one at a time, and to prevent me killing 4 at once for 4 attempts

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 japehlio wrote:
Wrong. The rules actually state
"On a 3 or less, not enough power, you can immediately sacrifice another model and roll again or accept original casting."

So, you can keep killing guys to try and get the extra die.

You're still limited to a single sacrifice. You can only kill one model. And you've misquoted the rule.

Here is the correct rule:

"Once per casting attempt, after the casting ice are rolled, but before a dispel attempt is made, the bearer of this magic item can sacrifice one model in her unit."

"On a 4+ the sorceress gains an extra power dice that must be rolled and added to the casting result; dispel attempts can be made and the spell resolved. On a roll of 3 or less, the sacrifice has not generated enough power- you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again, or accept the original result."

If you roll the 4+, and kill a model, you're done. You get your power dice for that casting attempt. You only get to choose another model to sacrifice if you don't get the dice.

Yes, that is what japehlio said. "You can keep killing guys and get the extra die" (SINGULAR FORM) as opposed to "You can keep killing guys and get the extra dice" (PURAL FORM).

EDIT: Upon reading the rest of your responses, I see no point in arguing this further, darkavenger. Or anything else with you. Good bye.

 japehlio wrote:
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. It overrides the cap of one right as it says "sacrifice ANOTHER model".

The "cap" of of one is there to enforce that it is done one at a time, and to prevent me killing 4 at once for 4 attempts

You sacrifice a second model, which is forbidden by the FIRST LINE.

"Once per casting, you can sacrifice one model."

Simple as that. With that, you're limited to sacrificing one model. If it was sacrifice a single model, then there would be no conflict. As it stands, there is a concrete limit.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 japehlio wrote:
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. It overrides the cap of one right as it says "sacrifice ANOTHER model".

The "cap" of of one is there to enforce that it is done one at a time, and to prevent me killing 4 at once for 4 attempts

You sacrifice a second model, which is forbidden by the FIRST LINE.

"Once per casting, you can sacrifice one model."

Simple as that. With that, you're limited to sacrificing one model. If it was sacrifice a single model, then there would be no conflict. As it stands, there is a concrete limit.

Seriously, dude. You're turning into TFG. We're all reading the same language of the rule, you're the only one fighting this. Either you're still arguing to be a troll, or some Dark Elf player beat you badly and you're on some strange vendetta. In either case, you're flat-out wrong. The rules for item very specifically (and in no way ambiguously) allow you to sacrifice more than one dude per attempt. It's only once you roll the 4+ and get the bonus die that you're required to stop.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 japehlio wrote:
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. It overrides the cap of one right as it says "sacrifice ANOTHER model".

The "cap" of of one is there to enforce that it is done one at a time, and to prevent me killing 4 at once for 4 attempts

You sacrifice a second model, which is forbidden by the FIRST LINE.

"Once per casting, you can sacrifice one model."

Simple as that. With that, you're limited to sacrificing one model. If it was sacrifice a single model, then there would be no conflict. As it stands, there is a concrete limit.

Seriously, dude. You're turning into TFG. We're all reading the same language of the rule, you're the only one fighting this. Either you're still arguing to be a troll, or some Dark Elf player beat you badly and you're on some strange vendetta. In either case, you're flat-out wrong. The rules for item very specifically (and in no way ambiguously) allow you to sacrifice more than one dude per attempt. It's only once you roll the 4+ and get the bonus die that you're required to stop.

"Once per casting, you can sacrifice one model."

There should be no debate. RAW you sacrifice a model, and roll a die. On a 4+ you gain a Power die. On a 3 or less, you can attempt again. HOWEVER, you've already reached the limit for this casting. Ergo, you can't sacrifice anymore.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 japehlio wrote:
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. It overrides the cap of one right as it says "sacrifice ANOTHER model".

The "cap" of of one is there to enforce that it is done one at a time, and to prevent me killing 4 at once for 4 attempts

You sacrifice a second model, which is forbidden by the FIRST LINE.

"Once per casting, you can sacrifice one model."

Simple as that. With that, you're limited to sacrificing one model. If it was sacrifice a single model, then there would be no conflict. As it stands, there is a concrete limit.

Read the context of the whole rule. The single model statement is needed in the first part for the rule to function properly. Without that statement, I could roll my casting dice, sacrifice 4 models, and roll 4D6 looking for 4+'s to each give a bonus power dice.
The second part tells you how to process the success or failure, and the last part tells you if you fail, you can immediately attempt again. Not attempt again later in the phase on another spell, but immediately.
Your reading is partial, ignoring context and, obvious to just about everyone, wrong.

Now that I've explained why the single model is in the first part of the rule, can you explain with your view, how "you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again" would function?
Let's say I have a casting value of 5 (miasma), I roll 2 power dice and get an 8. I really want this to go off, and want it to be hard to dispel, so I knife a guy. I roll a 3 on the knifing. How does Immediately function in this example, with your reading of the rules.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 japehlio wrote:
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. It overrides the cap of one right as it says "sacrifice ANOTHER model".

The "cap" of of one is there to enforce that it is done one at a time, and to prevent me killing 4 at once for 4 attempts

You sacrifice a second model, which is forbidden by the FIRST LINE.

"Once per casting, you can sacrifice one model."

Simple as that. With that, you're limited to sacrificing one model. If it was sacrifice a single model, then there would be no conflict. As it stands, there is a concrete limit.

Read the context of the whole rule. The single model statement is needed in the first part for the rule to function properly. Without that statement, I could roll my casting dice, sacrifice 4 models, and roll 4D6 looking for 4+'s to each give a bonus power dice.
The second part tells you how to process the success or failure, and the last part tells you if you fail, you can immediately attempt again. Not attempt again later in the phase on another spell, but immediately.
Your reading is partial, ignoring context and, obvious to just about everyone, wrong.

Now that I've explained why the single model is in the first part of the rule, can you explain with your view, how "you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again" would function?
Let's say I have a casting value of 5 (miasma), I roll 2 power dice and get an 8. I really want this to go off, and want it to be hard to dispel, so I knife a guy. I roll a 3 on the knifing. How does Immediately function in this example, with your reading of the rules.

-Matt

Wahat the second part doesn't say is that you can ignore the sacrifice. It goes off regardless of the roll. On a 1-6, a model still dies. On a 1-3 you just don't get a power die for it. So, WHERE, JUST WHERE in the second part does it give you ANY form of permission to ignore the once per casting, you can sacrifice one model limitation?

Pretty much where it says "another model". Its kind of hard to follow the second bit of the RULE if, somehow, you view the initial "one" as a net total

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 japehlio wrote:
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. It overrides the cap of one right as it says "sacrifice ANOTHER model".

The "cap" of of one is there to enforce that it is done one at a time, and to prevent me killing 4 at once for 4 attempts

You sacrifice a second model, which is forbidden by the FIRST LINE.

"Once per casting, you can sacrifice one model."

Simple as that. With that, you're limited to sacrificing one model. If it was sacrifice a single model, then there would be no conflict. As it stands, there is a concrete limit.

Read the context of the whole rule. The single model statement is needed in the first part for the rule to function properly. Without that statement, I could roll my casting dice, sacrifice 4 models, and roll 4D6 looking for 4+'s to each give a bonus power dice.
The second part tells you how to process the success or failure, and the last part tells you if you fail, you can immediately attempt again. Not attempt again later in the phase on another spell, but immediately.
Your reading is partial, ignoring context and, obvious to just about everyone, wrong.

Now that I've explained why the single model is in the first part of the rule, can you explain with your view, how "you can immediately sacrifice another model from the unit and roll again" would function?
Let's say I have a casting value of 5 (miasma), I roll 2 power dice and get an 8. I really want this to go off, and want it to be hard to dispel, so I knife a guy. I roll a 3 on the knifing. How does Immediately function in this example, with your reading of the rules.

-Matt

Wahat the second part doesn't say is that you can ignore the sacrifice. It goes off regardless of the roll. On a 1-6, a model still dies. On a 1-3 you just don't get a power die for it. So, WHERE, JUST WHERE in the second part does it give you ANY form of permission to ignore the once per casting, you can sacrifice one model limitation?

Nope, that's it. We're done here. You're either intentionally trolling and being TFG, or you have a total failure to understand how to read a whole rule. Either way, thanks for playing. *ignore*

 japehlio wrote:
Pretty much where it says "another model". Its kind of hard to follow the second bit of the RULE if, somehow, you view the initial "one" as a net total

No. Another model isn't an ignore. We have a concrete limit, and unless it specifically states we can ignore that, which it doesn't, we are still limited to a single model. Sacrificing another model is not any form of concrete permission to break that. If it had said we ignore the limit, then this conversation would not be happening.

actually, the format of an If < Then statement do break that, as you put it, concrete limit. You know what, they are two separate sentences, if the condition at the end of the first is met, sweet, the process stops. Then why the hell add the second sentence? You are literally clutching at the same straw here, refusing to even consider that your own misinterpretation of a simple (to EVERYONE else) rule isnt as infallible as you make it out to be.

Seriously, read section two again in the rule.