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O:I the prior month seems like a reasonable explanation on why this month got a hiccup.

Eventually they are not going to be able to lay the blame on Icestorm.

As of this point in time, they SHOULD have recovered from the issues of Icestorm.

If O:I has eaten all their resources, it's just logic that they have to catch up with the normal workload that has been delayed. The EC Starter and Kasym Beg are probably casted and in packing process, they might be already casting newer stuff, but if they want to get control back on their scheduling they need to play safe.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Eventually they are not going to be able to lay the blame on Icestorm.

As of this point in time, they SHOULD have recovered from the issues of Icestorm.

I don't think Operation: Icestorm is the only thing keeping them reeling. They are having a huge surge in players, without a doubt having to devote more time to produce additional runs of previous released merchandise to supply that demand could be eating up time as well. Not to mention making sure all the Caskuda are in line to be squashed , and that everything is prepped for the production and distribution on N3 with the Bounty Hunter. After the Icestorm surge they are probably anticipating a massive increase with N3, and they NEED to capitalize on it in a big way to show new converts that they are capable of meeting demand.

Do you know how you capitalize on that surge and show that "they are capable of meeting demand"?

It's not by cutting the number of releases that will be potentially be releasing stateside in time for Christmas from 5 to 2.

Absolutionis wrote:This is the first time we've gotten such a reduced release.

Nope, some releases were already delayed a month or two ago. :(

Kanluwen wrote:Eventually they are not going to be able to lay the blame on Icestorm.

As of this point in time, they SHOULD have recovered from the issues of Icestorm.

CB lost something like an entire month of normal production time to the Icestorm pre-order. Icestorm was the equivalent of roughly 17,000 starter packs and 25,000 single model blisters (CSU, Reverend Healer, Father-Knight) which means the rest of the range has been running low throughout the supply chain.

That's not something a production schedule magically recovers from in a few weeks, even if general Infinity sales were static instead of seeing a boost from Icestorm, N3 and another BoW Infinity Week.

And you're trying to tell me that they couldn't have predicted something like this?

Or that they couldn't have realized that touting the fact that they were only going to produce 5000 boxes(initially) was an awful, awful idea?

Its better to have available what is already released than bring out new stuff in my opinion. If new players cant get hold of stuff that is already out they are going to be disgruntled, more so than if future releases are delayed.

 carlos13th wrote:
Its better to have available what is already released than bring out new stuff in my opinion. If new players cant get hold of stuff that is already out they are going to be disgruntled, more so than if future releases are delayed.

Do you really think that there are so many players that models are always out of stock?

No I dont and I never said that. But fulfilling current orders is more important than bringing out new stuff.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Do you really think that there are so many players that models are always out of stock?

As a retailer, I know there are a bunch of items have been unavailable from the UK distributor or direct from CB for months now.

I think O:I took everyone by surprise. One of the staff from Wayland Games said on here that the numbers it was doing were only comparable to major 40K releases, and the manager of Firestorm Games said similar when I was discussing it with him last week.

Now if you are a small company, who have never done a comparable major release for your game, and due to the nature of previous releases/it being a Skirmish game where players only need a small force, how can you predict numbers like that, and, even if you've got a hope, how much can you gamble on that? If O:I took a month of production time, can they really gamble another one, when getting it wrong could be a disaster?

Any comparison is significantly tainted by the fact that Corvus Belli kept announcing this as a "starter set" and mentioning the "limited run" tag.

People buy into limited editions not just for use, but also for resell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IJW wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Do you really think that there are so many players that models are always out of stock?

As a retailer, I know there are a bunch of items have been unavailable from the UK distributor or direct from CB for months now.

Like what?

Dark Vengeance had a Limited Edition version too.

 carlos13th wrote:
No I dont and I never said that. But fulfilling current orders is more important than bringing out new stuff.

It sure is--but you know what else is "more important than bringing out new stuff"?

Recognizing you messed up. Releasing Icestorm like they did was a huge mistake . They insisted upon continually mentioning that it was a limited run item.

And then they were surprised by the overpurchasing?

Not to mention that in addition there were likely veteran players(read: not the intended target for a starter set) buying the boxes to split up and sell the components, get updated sculpts, or just buying the box for the "quick start rules" and selling the models on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 carlos13th wrote:
Dark Vengeance had a Limited Edition version too.

Dark Vengeance wasn't a limited edition item though, now was it?
If you want to make a proper comparison, then you talk Stormclaw.

Stormclaw was not solely bought by new players though. The price point combined with the items included ended up with Stormclaw being a pretty good seller. I saw at least two individuals walk out with four boxes or more of Stormclaw, with the intention of selling the extra mini rulebooks to cover part of the costs.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 carlos13th wrote:
No I dont and I never said that. But fulfilling current orders is more important than bringing out new stuff.

It sure is--but you know what else is "more important than bringing out new stuff"?

Recognizing you messed up. Releasing Icestorm like they did was a huge mistake . They insisted upon continually mentioning that it was a limited run item.

And then they were surprised by the overpurchasing?

Not to mention that in addition there were likely veteran players(read: not the intended target for a starter set) buying the boxes to split up and sell the components, get updated sculpts, or just buying the box for the "quick start rules" and selling the models on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 carlos13th wrote:
Dark Vengeance had a Limited Edition version too.

Dark Vengeance wasn't a limited edition item though, now was it?
If you want to make a proper comparison, then you talk Stormclaw.

Stormclaw was not solely bought by new players though. The price point combined with the items included ended up with Stormclaw being a pretty good seller. I saw at least two individuals walk out with four boxes or more of Stormclaw, with the intention of selling the extra mini rulebooks to cover part of the costs.

They never said it was LIMITED, just that it was 5000 sets made and they should last for a year, and if they sold well in that time they will look at a second run. People like you just heard "we printed 5000 copy" and keep saying it a limit ed every chances the got. Dispite me and other pointing out it was never said to be limited to only 5000 copies ever, just that they only made 5000 copies, as it was a hugh risk. It turning out instead a sure fire hit, doesn't mean O:IS wasn't a risk to they lively hood. It nice you like to think you known about CB's innerworking, but as you can't see how O:IS and N3, let alone other internal things we don't know about. Can effect production I don't think you know as much about how CB works or miniature production as you think.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 IJW wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Do you really think that there are so many players that models are always out of stock?

As a retailer, I know there are a bunch of items have been unavailable from the UK distributor or direct from CB for months now.

Like what?

Currently the Interventors, several Support Packs, Djanbazan HMG, both Lasiqs, the Ghulam SWC box is out of stock already, some of the Dire Foes boxes. Until very recently, the Jotum, Iguana and Auxilia boxes.

It's very noticeable that all the items listed in the back of Icestorm to flesh out the armies have been hard to get hold of.

Let's keep it polite, all! Thanks.

From someone who got frustrated due to the impossibility of getting the miniatures I wanted when Warmachine/Hordes went through their major expansion period after the MK2 stuff came out, and watched the same thing happen again with X-Wing and it's popularity, I'd just like to say this:

It'll be okay. Yes, it sucks that stuff you were looking forward to might be delayed a month or two (or more). Yes, it sucks that distributors are running out of stock as more and more stores start stocking the game.

Games that grow will have these growing pains. It's the perfect opportunity to catch up on painting unpainted miniatures you already have, maybe re-allocating the hobby budget that would have gone to the new miniatures to some terrain or accessories.

Yeah, it really is annoying when either a release you want is sold out or a release you're looking forward to delayed. And obviously CB is the company that makes this stuff, so it's "their fault." Does it being "their fault" do anything though? Sounds to me like they are doing something about it. Re-arranging their release schedule to accommodate the new demand and concentrating on introductory products these new customers are likely looking for.

Is that less than wonderful if you're a long time customer who wants one particular thing and you can't get your hands on it because it's either sold out at the distributor level or is having it's release date pushed back? Yes. Definitely. I was a Warmachine player through MK1 and found the same problem to be very annoying. I couldn't get the blisters I wanted in a timely fashion and some releases got pushed around a lot in 2010. The amount of new players though sure was worth it though.

Yeah I'm... I'm not seeing a reason for finger pointing here. Infinity is growing, a lot thanks to Icestorm. This growth is going to be good for both Corvus Belli and Infinity. If it means I can't get something I want on time, well, I'll just have to deal with it. it's not like I don't have enough to paint anyway.

Good to see Kaysm Beg is just to badass to be pushed back though.

 frozenwastes wrote:

Yeah, it really is annoying when either a release you want is sold out or a release you're looking forward to delayed. And obviously CB is the company that makes this stuff, so it's "their fault." Does it being "their fault" do anything though? Sounds to me like they are doing something about it. Re-arranging their release schedule to accommodate the new demand and concentrating on introductory products these new customers are likely looking for.

If they were "concentrating on introductory products", then N3 would either already be out or coming out this month.

As it stands? It won't be until January or even possibly February unless they actually have it available here in the US/Canada by the end of November.

Oh, and also?
This is not the first time something like this has happened. They keep partnering with Beasts of War for hyping up their big releases and then they get slammed--leading to a backlog.
It's like continually touching a hot oven and expecting not to get burnt.

I'm not sure the N3 rulebook is an introductory product in the same way Operation Ice Storm and the faction starter boxes are.

If Beasts of War promoting my stuff was so effective that it increased the sales on my products beyond what I could have realistically prepared for*, I'd keep partnering with them at every appropriate opportunity. It'd be madness not too. I'd much rather grow the customer and player base as a whole if it just means some releases will be delayed and there will be a back log at some distributors.

It's a pretty awesome problem to have for a small growing company.

If you want to redefine an internet marketing success as "touching a hot oven and expecting not to get burnt" you're welcome to do so. It kind of sounds like you'd only be happy with Infinity growing if they somehow predicted exactly what future sales would be, managed to increase production perfectly and had no issues or delays caused by growth at all. Calling Operation Icestorm a "mistake" in big red letters just seems silly to me. It was obviously a success with the production issues of its success being relatively minor so far. Delay some new releases and make your distributors happy by actually having the stock they bought in the past sell well?

* it's very risky and possibly corrosive to one's cash flow to overestimate production. And it's catastrophic if you end up being wrong and left sitting on dead stock. It can kill your business dead even in the middle of a growth period.

 IJW wrote:
It's very noticeable that all the items listed in the back of Icestorm to flesh out the armies have been hard to get hold of.

Sounds like the plan is working.

Make a new starter set
Promote the starter set
Sell the starter set
Include a path for expansion for starter set purchasers
Sell the products that are part of that path

They'll get the stuff that's out of stock back in stock. It may just mean they'll have to delay some new releases as production will be reallocated towards restocking that stuff. Just like all the small units and solos in Warmachine that you'd want to add to the starter sets when they exploded in popularity.

---

 frozenwastes wrote:
I'm not sure the N3 rulebook is an introductory product in the same way Operation Ice Storm and the faction starter boxes are.

Then you don't know what Operation Icestorm actually was, nor do you understand that the Combined Army Starter box that is coming out consists of ALL INFINITY THIRD EDITION MODELS.
Not a single model in the new Combined Army Starter Box is currently available in N2. It would be a waste for them to put out N2 profiles as well, since everything in the CA starter box as well is intended for the forthcoming EI Sectorial for Acheron Falls(which got pushed back for N3 to begin with!)

Oh, also for the record?
Icestorm was simply two starter sets packaged with cardboard terrain and quick-start rules.
The two starter sets in the box are coming out within the next few months. So any excuse about Icestorm "ruining their production line" is bull crap at this point since they manage to release boxed sets of 4 models every month with no real issue.

If Beasts of War promoting my stuff was so effective that it increased the sales on my products beyond what I could have realistically prepared for*, I'd keep partnering with them at every appropriate opportunity. It'd be madness not too. I'd much rather grow the customer and player base as a whole if it just means some releases will be delayed and there will be a back log at some distributors.

It's a pretty awesome problem to have for a small growing company.

They've partnered with them three years in a row now. This CONTINUALLY HAPPENS.

This is the THIRD YEAR IN A ROW where post-BoW Infinity week, they've had some kind of issue that is entirely within their remit to have controlled.
The only real exception I will grant them is Campaign: Paradiso's issues, as those were a combination of the printers screwing up and then here in the US the shipments getting completely screwed over by Hurricane Sandy hitting a major distribution hub for USPS/UPS/FedEx(in the form of NYC and NJ).

If you want to redefine an internet marketing success as "touching a hot oven and expecting not to get burnt" you're welcome to do so. It kind of sounds like you'd only be happy with Infinity growing if they somehow predicted exactly what future sales would be, managed to increase production perfectly and had no issues or delays caused by growth at all.

You understand that this was, according to Corvus Belli, going to be "their year to start expanding into the US market even further" right?

They are going to have no new rulebooks available for purchase before or immediately after Christmas. They're stating a December 8th shipping date.
That means mid to late January, at least, for the US distribution and retailers to start having copies. And that's if UPS/USPS/FedEx get their crap together immediately.

Add to it that Operation: Icestorm is virtually unavailable(great job predicting that one guys! 5000 copies lasting you a whole year, huh?) at any retail shop and they're doing some damage to any good relationship they can have with retailers that would actively host or stock their products.

* it's very risky and possibly corrosive to one's cash flow to overestimate production. And it's catastrophic if you end up being wrong and left sitting on dead stock. It can kill your business dead even in the middle of a growth period.

You know what else is "very risky and possibly corrosive to one's cash flow"?
Not having new product to release during the Christmas season

You could make the exact same argument about Magic the Gathering,

It's always in demand, shops sell out and can't get more....

but it doesn't hurt them.

If something is good enough (and the general feeling seems to be N3 will be) it will sell whenever it arrives. If it's sub par then it will suffer

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
You could make the exact same argument about Magic the Gathering

You can't make that argument actually because WoTC has a forecasting team that looks at prior information and suggests stock allocations accordingly.

The fact that Corvus Belli thought a "two player starter set" consisting of brand new sculpts of some of the oldest models in their line, for two of the most popular factions in their line, and getting hyped up by Beasts of War and other tabletop gaming outlets was going to have 5000 copies last "for a year" tells you that is not the case with CB.

So it was incompetence on their part and the mistake was remedied. What's the problem here?

I'd rather support a company full of gamers/artists that occasionally has a stroke of incompetence rather than a comapny full of businessmen/managers that often has strokes of malice and contempt for their customers.

There really is no problem here. New players may see a slow month, but they don't know any better; you do not need to speak for them, Kanluwen.

CB thought 5000 copies. They were mistaken. In a less cynical world, this would be a good thing that the game is exploding in popularity. Rather than. There is no problem here. Move on.

Kanluwen is a Caskuda.

For those who insist O:I was always meant to be an extended release- Carlos 'Bostria', on the official forum, stated that Icestorm was indeed a limited run of 5000. He even suggests striking while the iron is hot in hopes to drum up impulse buys.

I can't figure out linking web pages on this tablet, but it's in the Terracotta Soldiers thread, dated July 27 2014...post #136.

Edit: Giving link a go...

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/23825-terracotta-soldiers/page-7#entry497428

Man, you really need to chill out dude.
You are up in arms about a luxury product for a game in which you push little painted men around on a board against other little painted men.

If / When it comes out you can elect to buy or not buy the items they have available.

Complaining to everyone here that CB isn't releasing to YOUR satisfaction is pointless. The rest of us will wait, with patience, like adults.

Please, start your own successful business selling little metal men, so people can complain about your time table.

Nothing you can say or do will make them be able to release what you want, when you want it. There are factors of which you are not, and can not be privy to.

ski2060 wrote:
Man, you really need to chill out dude.
You are up in arms about a luxury product for a game in which you push little painted men around on a board against other little painted men.

If / When it comes out you can elect to buy or not buy the items they have available.

Complaining to everyone here that CB isn't releasing to YOUR satisfaction is pointless. The rest of us will wait, with patience, like adults.

Please, start your own successful business selling little metal men, so people can complain about your time table.

Nothing you can say or do will make them be able to release what you want, when you want it. There are factors of which you are not, and can not be privy to.

That's just Kan for you, he is King of Negativenancia. Hang out around here or the official forums long enough you just become desensitized to it.

Rusty Trombone wrote:
For those who insist O:I was always meant to be an extended release- Carlos 'Bostria', on the official forum, stated that Icestorm was indeed a limited run of 5000. He even suggests striking while the iron is hot in hopes to drum up impulse buys.

I can't figure out linking web pages on this tablet, but it's in the Terracotta Soldiers thread, dated July 27 2014...post #136.

In your browser hold down on the web url at the top an option will come up which includes copy. Press copy and then hold down again where you want to paste until the paste option comes up.

Thats how it works on ipad at least.