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Lets break it down.

Realspace Raiders Detachment Pros:
-5+ Cover for troops and 6+ for everything else on turn 1
-6 Fast attack slots

Realspace Raiders Cons:
-Troops do not get Objective Secured
-Warlord Trait re-roll is limited to the Dark Eldar tree.

Losing Obsec and re-rolls on the Strategic tree seems huge, but with all the buffs to our FA slot, they might be worth giving up. Some of the DE traits are not bad as well.

Lets assume for the moment that we do decide to go with the Realspace Raiders. Without Obsec, Is there any point in taking more than 2 troops choices? Or are our points better spent on other things? How should we take our troops? Minimum squads in Venoms? Or 10 man Splinter Cannon squads in Raiders with Nightshields and Splinter Racks?

Maybe a hybrid of the two would be best? One CAD for Obsec troops held in reserve and one RRD for extra durability on the rest of your army turn one?

Discuss!

Frankly i'd think DE is too fragile to make effective use of ObSec so it wasn't a great boon in the first place

But now that fast attack is where some of the best units are getting 3 more of them is amazing.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Frankly i'd think DE is too fragile to make effective use of ObSec so it wasn't a great boon in the first place
But now that fast attack is where some of the best units are getting 3 more of them is amazing.

This.
Troops don't last long as it is. I'll take free 5+ cover (4+ on the raiders with night shields) turn 1, and accept that my core is crap for objective secured.

I'm leaning that way as well. So with the RRD, is there any point in taking more than 2 troops? As in, is there anything that can fill the anti-infantry roll better?

 extremefreak17 wrote:
I'm leaning that way as well. So with the RRD, is there any point in taking more than 2 troops? As in, is there anything that can fill the anti-infantry roll better?

Probably since they are the cheapest source of Venoms without using up Fast Attack slots but obviously make use of the six FA slots before you do

Both FOC are great for DE they just are different play styles.

If you were planning to take 4+ FA then realspace raiders is a great detachment. The list tends to be a higher damage output affair with an extreme beta strike. This also fits with the DE power from pain as you get stronger later in the game so it is all positives to start fighting at turn 2-3 rather than turn 1.

CAD gives you greater control to get a fantastic warlord trait from strategic or command (the use lowest Ld within 12" is murder on IG and Tau armies). The other benefit is that if you were already planning to take a bunch of venoms or raiders with warriors in them then this buffs them up considerably. The venoms and raiders becoming ObjSec is the real benefit alongside the better chance for a good warlord trait. This army tends to cripple key units during a beta strike and then conserve their resources to take objectives.

Don't forget the third option: two CADs gets you six FA units as well if you're willing to pay the troop tax.

I'll play the other side of the coin on this one. I think the cover save benefit from the RRD is a joke. All DE troops are in transports anyway, which when they jink get a 4+ cover save anyway, 3+ with night fighting.

You may say "well yeah, but with RRD, they don't HAVE to jink!" True. But inconsequential (to my tiny brain). Our troops aren't there for massive damage output, they're super cheap objective thieves. A 5 man warrior unit with blaster in a venom is just over 100 pts, which is great. Put them in a raider for similar cost, but you have a bigger hunk of wreckage to hide behind when it gets blown up. Flit around from objective to objective, and as the game goes on and our transports start getting wrecked, we'll have to rely on PFP to keep us alive and from running when we have to make a stand on those objectives.

You will die in droves, but the name of the game is take the objective. Super fast super cheap objective secured units are great at objective grabbing.

Just my two cents.

I don't think anyone was arguing the 5+ cover was why you take that detachment

Ah, then I couldn't see losing OBJSEC just for extra fast attack slots. Yes our fast attack is pretty good now, but I'd take OBJSEC all day.

I dunno, being able to take 4 units of scourges with haywire blasters and 2 units of reavers for caltrops shenanigans is pretty tough to pass up.... guess we will see with time what ends up working best in the big tourney scene, as for locals its all in the meta.

Cambonimachine wrote:
I dunno, being able to take 4 units of scourges with haywire blasters and 2 units of reavers for caltrops shenanigans is pretty tough to pass up.... guess we will see with time what ends up working best in the big tourney scene, as for locals its all in the meta.

And if I had 2 detachments, I'd do that twice.

can anyone tell me where it says you get more fast attack slots? I don't see a forge org printed in the codex..

raoiley wrote:
can anyone tell me where it says you get more fast attack slots? I don't see a forge org printed in the codex..

Page 110.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Cambonimachine wrote:
I dunno, being able to take 4 units of scourges with haywire blasters and 2 units of reavers for caltrops shenanigans is pretty tough to pass up.... guess we will see with time what ends up working best in the big tourney scene, as for locals its all in the meta.

And if I had 2 detachments, I'd do that twice.

But only half of your troops would be obsec in your primary CAD... I dunno just seems a little.... overwrought... IMO. Like i said we all need more table time trying all this out before any solid conclusions are made.

Edit: Ninja'd p110

I'm quite happy with RRD. Considering I'm running 20 khymera and 3 razorwing fighters, the delayed alpha (I guess beta strike) is fine for me. Losing Objsec isn't as big of a deal when I'm able to clear off objectives and have board control with my units. I'm also only taking 2x5 warriors as my troops, designed to hide off the table and grab my backfield objectives late game.

Secondly, I'm taking eldar allies as a CAD, so while most of my stuff isn't Objsec, the forward pushing portal allies are and will make more use of the rule than my two warriors.

As said by many before, time will tell. But with most tournaments having a 2 source limit, RRD + CAD is quite fantastic for my playstyle.

I guess the difference is in what is being spammed. If six Venom warriors are the focus of the army, all with twin Cannons dealing that damage along with the warriors shooting whatever they have while Trueborn and Scourges knock out Vehicles, Obsec is very important since twelve units (Dedicated Transports are counted as their own entity) can easily hold every objective all game. But if actual attacking is the plan, or in my case using Dark Eldar as allies, the spare Raiders, Venoms and Reavers are the whole reason for the army. More Transports the better for my Eldar.

I think you should include the Coven's CAD as well because it's pretty interesting and gives another facet to the army.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

Lets assume for the moment that we do decide to go with the Realspace Raiders. Without Obsec, Is there any point in taking more than 2 troops choices? Or are our points better spent on other things? How should we take our troops? Minimum squads in Venoms? Or 10 man Splinter Cannon squads in Raiders with Nightshields and Splinter Racks?

Maybe a hybrid of the two would be best? One CAD for Obsec troops held in reserve and one RRD for extra durability on the rest of your army turn one?

Discuss!

Couple considerations

--DE HQs can be a tax. Unless you are building around multiple WWPs or some sort of janky archangel combo there's no reason you want two HQs. So while double CAD can get you 6 FAs, doing so without a 60+ point tax is a major consideration.
--Low point games are a limiter. A 1500 point army that wants to build around 6 FAs may not have the points needed to go double detachment.
--Detachment limits matter. Some events are limiting duplicate CAD and even limited CAD-like detachments to 1. Also in a 2 detachment format you may want 6 FA and then some other detachment like coven formations or some Eldar
--There's no fortifications or LoW slots in the Realspace detachment. So if you want a comms relay or are in a no holds barred event and have a revenant to field then CAD is a must.