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You can twist it any way you want, but the simple fact is that you're wrong. Their suit has nothing to do with race, per them. But I do appreciate how you're claiming it is, despite what the pursuant couple says.

And quite frankly, were I them, I'd be suing for a whole lot more than $50K.


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I'm sure I must be wrong though, because me and my two degrees hates universities and stuff.

 cincydooley wrote:
You can twist it any way you want, but the simple fact is that you're wrong. Their suit has nothing to do with race, per them. But I do appreciate how you're claiming it is, despite what the pursuant couple says.

And quite frankly, were I them, I'd be suing for a whole lot more than $50K.

Yes, because if they say it isnt about race, it totally isnt about race.
She claimed the reason she wants the money is to move out of the town and Counseling for anxiety and fears over raising a Bi-racial child

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
You can twist it any way you want, but the simple fact is that you're wrong. Their suit has nothing to do with race, per them. But I do appreciate how you're claiming it is, despite what the pursuant couple says.

And quite frankly, were I them, I'd be suing for a whole lot more than $50K.

Yes, because if they say it isnt about race, it totally isnt about race.
She claimed the reason she wants the money is to move out of the town and Counseling for anxiety and fears over raising a Bi-racial child

Which wouldn't have happened if they didn't get the wrong sperm and therefore the wrong baby.
Which wouldn't have happened if they had better record keeping.
Which is why the suit was filed so that it can be fixed.

Race can be a factor for determining damages, but it's not the core reason for the suit.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Yes, because if they say it isnt about race, it totally isnt about race.
She claimed the reason she wants the money is to move out of the town and Counseling for anxiety and fears over raising a Bi-racial child

Well I'm glad you're the arbiter of the intentions of others. This is great to know.

Regardless, it doesn't fething matter.

The sperm-bank made an EGREGIOUS error.

They should be held accountable to the utmost. And she should be awarded a SUBSTANTIAL sum. Well over the paltry $50K they're asking. And the Sperm Bank should probably lose their license.

Then why did she bring race into it? Why not just say "They gave me the wrong sperm"

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then why did she bring race into it? Why not just say "They gave me the wrong sperm"

Because in this instance the race is the very obvious signpost that the sperm bank fethed up. Who's to say they haven't fethed up before and people just don't know because both donors were white?

I mean, this is some pretty simple A-->B critical thinking.

I dont think it is. This case would not even have made it to the News would not have picked it up. I think what she is doing and why she is asking for does come down to race.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then why did she bring race into it? Why not just say "They gave me the wrong sperm"

Because mistakes can be worse based on certain circumstances. But that doesn't change what the basic mistake was.


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It's like suing somebody that hit your car while they were drunk. That's what you are suing them for: driving while drunk and hitting you and injuring you.

Let's say that the car accident resulted in a lot of damage to both your arms, and now you can no longer work. You can no longer play sports. Heck, you can't even masturbate anymore.

So when you file the lawsuit you list all those as reasons why the damages should be higher: because losing your arms impacts you that much. But that doesn't change the reason for the actual suit: you hit me with your car while drunk.

The fancy headline would be "guy sues because he can't masturbate anymore", but the headline would be wrong.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then why did she bring race into it? Why not just say "They gave me the wrong sperm"

I doubt she wrote her own headline.


The mixed race of the baby made it plainly obvious there'd been a mix up. Local and national news likely picked up the story and said hey lets drop race into the headline as it gets people riled up and that sells paper and gets ratings.


Same issue could occur if a person went to a sperm bank and made a clear request that the donor have a family history free of heart disease, and the baby is born with a hereditary heart issue
because the bank mixed up donor with one who had a known condition that they specifically requested to avoid. Or if they went to the clinic requesting for a donor of above average intelligence but instead got sperm from somebody that suffered from acute metal retardation. Not what you wanted nor requested and unlike most other purchases it creates a lifelong complication for both of the parents and the child as well.

Sure you can still love the child, but it comes with a lot of additional issues that you didn't consent to and had forced upon you.

I think everyone here is in agreement that these women are owed buckets of cask and that sperm bank needs to do a serious overhaul of their system.
I would like to know more about this town, though.

Looks like a decent enough place to live:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniontown,_Ohio

Could you imagine the horror if somebody were to go to a sperm bank and had a ginger kid on accident?

"Women Sues sperm bank for Souless Baby""

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
You can twist it any way you want, but the simple fact is that you're wrong. Their suit has nothing to do with race, per them. But I do appreciate how you're claiming it is, despite what the pursuant couple says.

And quite frankly, were I them, I'd be suing for a whole lot more than $50K.

Yes, because if they say it isnt about race, it totally isnt about race.
She claimed the reason she wants the money is to move out of the town and Counseling for anxiety and fears over raising a Bi-racial child

suing for damages over a monumental cock-up like giving someone the wrong sperm isnt really out of line, the amount being up to the courts to decide.

Had it been a black couple, who asked for black donor sperm, and received white sperm, and had a white baby, you bet they have every recourse to sue the bank.

A black couple could also find the surrounding community was bigoted and treated them and/or their child differently because of race, and add that to an exhaustive list of damages, and trust me when you list damages to sue for, you include every single itty bitty thing.

IE someone burns down your house, you sue them for every pen and stamp you had in there.

its not like a hamburger with pickles on it when you asked for none, a simple refund or do-over does not bring everyone back to where they started.

OFC big media says its all about race, so it must be more of whitey keeping everyone down, because that sells papers and shocks people more.



*edit for sp clarity

 easysauce wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
You can twist it any way you want, but the simple fact is that you're wrong. Their suit has nothing to do with race, per them. But I do appreciate how you're claiming it is, despite what the pursuant couple says.

And quite frankly, were I them, I'd be suing for a whole lot more than $50K.

Yes, because if they say it isnt about race, it totally isnt about race.
She claimed the reason she wants the money is to move out of the town and Counseling for anxiety and fears over raising a Bi-racial child

suing for damages over a monumental cock-up like giving someone the wrong sperm isnt really out of line, the amount being up to the courts to decide.

Had it been a black couple, who asked for black donor sperm, and received white sperm, and had a white baby, you bet they have every recourse to sue the bank.

A black couple could also find the surrounding community was bigoted and treated them and/or their child differently because of race, and add that to an exhaustive list of damages, and trust me when you list damages to sue for, you include every single itty bitty thing.

I guess I could still see it that way. I just dont get how she is having anxiety raising a Bi-racial baby

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess I could still see it that way. I just dont get how she is having anxiety raising a Bi-racial baby

External pressure from her family or her partners family could be a major factor. While they may love the baby it could place them at odds with their extended family if the family isn't accepting of a bi-racial child. Having a sudden and major change in their family relationship can be a huge stress point particularly if the point of conflict is due to having a child. I know somebody that was completely disowned by her father for having a kid out of wed lock and he's never relented which was been a major source of emotional pain for her.

Growing up I had a close friend who was bi-racial and they don't ever really fit into either the white or black community. Even when they are just being themselves and are color blind within their family the outside world is not nearly as kind, whites always see them as being too black, blacks see them as being too white so they typically aren't fully accepted in either group. The parents are likely well aware of this and it can be a cause of stress as nobody wants their children to be outcasts or judged by skin color.

Also there's a good chance that if you are your typical super white type person you don't have the first clue about actual black culture and not what's displayed in the media. That child deserves to understand the other half of their heritage which is possible that she may be concerned over. Just because you read some books on black history doesn't mean you know squat about actually being a black person or the nuances of black culture. How does a white person teach about what the experience and identity of being black is? (or in this case being half black) The parents likely know that they can only really equate to the white half of their child and there will be questions and experiences they can never completely help their child with no matter how much they try.

As a white parent how do they adequately explain racial discrimination towards blacks when they have never experienced it? They can theorize and speculate but it's never the same as having lived it.

While things have progressed in the last couple decades it's still not easy to be caught in between two worlds.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

I guess I could still see it that way. I just dont get how she is having anxiety raising a Bi-racial baby

Says the man living in liberal California.

I've lived in places where that's "just not what you do". I grew up in a place that black families moved into and then out of within a year because of how their kids were treated. It's a thing. Not saying it's a good thing, but it'd be lying if I said I haven't seen it happen.

 stanman wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess I could still see it that way. I just dont get how she is having anxiety raising a Bi-racial baby

External pressure from her family or her partners family could be a major factor. While they may love the baby it could place them at odds with their extended family if the family isn't accepting of a bi-racial child. Having a sudden and major change in their family relationship can be a huge stress point particularly if the point of conflict is due to having a child. I know somebody that was completely disowned by her father for having a kid out of wed lock and he's never relented which was been a major source of emotional pain for her.

Growing up I had a close friend who was bi-racial and they don't ever really fit into either the white or black community. Even when they are just being themselves and are color blind within their family the outside world is not nearly as kind, whites always see them as being too black, blacks see them as being too white so they typically aren't fully accepted in either group. The parents are likely well aware of this and it can be a cause of stress as nobody wants their children to be outcasts or judged by skin color.

Also there's a good chance that if you are your typical super white type person you don't have the first clue about actual black culture and not what's displayed in the media. That child deserves to understand the other half of their heritage which is possible that she may be concerned over. Just because you read some books on black history doesn't mean you know squat about actually being a black person or the nuances of black culture. How does a white person teach about what the experience and identity of being black is? (or in this case being half black) The parents likely know that they can only really equate to the white half of their child and there will be questions and experiences they can never completely help their child with no matter how much they try.

As a white parent how do they adequately explain racial discrimination towards blacks when they have never experienced it? They can theorize and speculate but it's never the same as having lived it.

While things have progressed in the last couple decades it's still not easy to be caught in between two worlds.

So you should only adopt kids of your ethnic background? This seems like a strange argument to be making.

 Bromsy wrote:
So you should only adopt kids of your ethnic background? This seems like a strange argument to be making.

No not saying that at all. It's just that everybody's ability to take on those issues is different. Hotsauceman was asking how she could be suffering from anxiety, and several of those issues could easily be a contribution especially when it was an unexpected situation that wasn't planned for.

My bi-racial friend's parents had planned for having children and they knew that there'd be times when being mixed race would be difficult, however because one was white and one was black they could at least offer a bit better balance in being able to offer guidance from first hand experiences of dealing with race issues. (where the partners in the article are both white)

I think the majority of adopted children have a point in their life where they wonder about who their genetic parents are and what that means to them. There's always questions that aren't able to be answered so it's difficult in a lot of ways, let alone when you start to add in elements and questions of race. The children may feel very loved and supported but there's always an element of the unknown that not every parent may be able or capable of addressing. I think the majority of people find a way to strike that balance, but it doesn't mean that they don't also apply a lot of thought and energy towards reaching that balance and depending on the individual it can potentially build a lot anxiety if the parent doesn't feel they are prepared.

The key difference in people adopting kids of a different ethnicity is that they make that choice and seek it out as they feel that they are prepared and capable of raising that child. Where the women in this situation did not make the choice to have a mixed race child, it was forced upon them by the bank's error. Concern for how to properly raise their child and helping that child to develop a strong identity could certainly be adding to their anxiety as it wasn't what they had planned for and are being forced to redesign their parenting plan from the ground up.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But part of the reason is that it is about race
Lack of racial diversity in their town
With the birth of Payton, Cramblett and Zinkon were confronted with raising their mixed race child in Uniontown, Ohio, a rural community south of Akron that, according to the last census, is 98% white.
Cramblett suffers from "stress and anxiety" just thinking of Payton having to attend and all-white school and being "stigmatized or unrecognized."

Lack of racial diversity is not a sole issue.

Even with racial diversity the issue remains.
Children of mixed race in a 98% white neighbourhood may have trouble fitting in.
Children of mixed race in a more diverse neighbourhood might also have trouble fitting in. You see mixed race are neither one nor the other and he chances are both ancestral races peer groups might reject the child.

Post pubescent teens tend to be less tribal than earlier age groups and more radily fit in. Though here upbringing has its mark, as different ethnicities have their own very distinct sub-cultures and it can be different to fit between the two, often being expected to show both cultures at different times Mixed race teens can find it difficult to adjust and can be confusing, or uncomfortable.
A lot of this comes from fear of being accused of being fake, or two faced, by showing two different cultural packages. As a lot of teen identity is based on layering of cultural themes, so for example how you greet people differs dependent on racial cultural grouping. Which can lead to awkward encounters.
That of course is just an example being black or being white or being Asian etc effects how you behave in many subtle ways. Race has actually little to do with it, racial grouping has.
In this respect a mixed race child in a siongle race grouping may have it easier in teenage years. Once the pre-teen colour based profiling changes into social based profiling a mixed race child exhibiting the mannerisms of one parent race can adjust better.

You may ask why the individual doesn't just be himself/herself. However teenage years don't work like that, even in our modern society there is a lot of teen conformity and it's ingrained in the human animal.

Back to topic.
The hard reality is being mixed race has more problems than benefits, it would be ill advised for someone seeking artificial fertilisation to deliberately choose a mixed race baby, and it is in the interests of the mother and child to avoid unnecessary complications by preferring a donor of same ethnic background. This is true regardless of which ethic background that is.
Beyond the feth up of not choosing the corrrect donor, which would be actionable regardless of the race of the donor; there is reason to state that the mother and mixed race child were further disadvantaged in tangible ways that in no way imply or infer inferiority.

I'm trying to figutre out what "damages" are involved here. People adopt mixed race babies all the time. Further, unless I missed it, no genes from either parent were missed-ie there was no Dad involved who can claim they didn't use his genes.

Where's the claim? Are they going to give up the baby now? hey according to them its a defective product.

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm trying to figutre out what "damages" are involved here.

This question has been answered at length earlier in the thread. Read Stanman's posts.

 Albatross wrote:
I wonder if they'll tell their daughter this story.

What are they going to tell her, she is a mistake?

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm trying to figutre out what "damages" are involved here.

This question has been answered at length earlier in the thread. Read Stanman's posts.

I read his argument. I don't see them as payable damages. Again, people adopt and raise interracial babies (or at least interracial to them) all the freaking time.
At best we're talking a contract issue on the product. If I were a judge as Da Humies are not "product" I'm not seeing a claim. They could be trying tome sort of "wrongful birth" but there's nothing wrong with the child, obviating negligence. The argument that the area is nicht gut is not and should not be apermissable one.



I guess on the positive its good to see this couple destroying any stereotypes that GLBT couples can't be as money grubbing opportunists as any one else.

Anyone in here familiar with the Cinema Snob? He reviews terrible old movies and...well...there's one review / movie that's oddly fitting and reminded me of this thread

http://www.thecinemasnob.com/the-cinema-snob/my-baby-is-black

Movie's called "My Baby is Black".

Trailer for the movie in question:




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 Frazzled wrote:
I'm trying to figutre out what "damages" are involved here.

The sperm bank offered a service which the customer paid for. They made a mistake and failed to deliver the service both parties agreed on. Sueing them is totally in order imo.

They provided that service. We're just talking the level of service provided.

Other than simple contract law, they really can't go for anything other than wrongful birth in some manner. I don't see this flying.

Even if they won, proving damages would be interesting.
"the area we're at has a lot of racists." I just don't see that working in a court of law, a court of law in the venue the couple are arguing is full of racists.

 Frazzled wrote:
They provided that service. We're just talking the level of service provided.

To repeat an earlier question:

If your wife were having difficulties conceiving, and you did in-vitro, and then later the lab admitted they accidentally used another mans sperm, would you accept an argument from them that so what, a baby is a baby? You got what you ordered.

No? How about if they gave you back your $300 copay? All better?

"Hey, I ordered a cheeseburger, and you gave me a filet o fish?"

"You got a sandwich, why are you complaining?"

'But I ordered a cheeseburger!"

"You got a sandwich and you got it in the promised timeframe."

Children are not cheeseburgers. While both are tasty with cheese, children cost substantially more.

They provided a product-los Baby! Did the product have the right melanin content? Nope, ok you get some liquidiated damages.

Arguing racism costs so give me money so I can move to Paris is not a winning argument.

 Frazzled wrote:
They provided that service. We're just talking the level of service provided.

Precisely. Since there has not been a precedence case yet, I have no idea how they are to compensate her, maybe by paying some kind of child support fee for the first 18 years.

Oh, and as I see, I can already cross the "blame the victim" card off here! This is not about her being racist or something, this is about a company breaking a contract and now having to make up for their mistake.

"Raising a child is a lifetime commitment, and now they have a lifetime commitment to raising the wrong child."

How is that the "wrong" child?

What isf the donor had a melanin gifted ancestors, and hey gues what popped out the turkey baster?

I wonder if the contract had an out provision by the clinic.

Should they get some damages? Maybe.
Should they get bazillions? No freaking way. Thats a kick in the teeth to thousands and thousands of couples and childrinz who are that. Suck it up princesses! Put the BMW catalog down and start raising your kid (I bet they're divorced in two years).

 Frazzled wrote:
"Raising a child is a lifetime commitment, and now they have a lifetime commitment to raising the wrong child."

How is that the "wrong" child?

Clearly, they wanted an experimental jazz musician, and are stuck with a rapper *


IIRC, the women themselves have said they're already receiving a ton of negativity from within their own families... Which, I find odd.... MOST families that I personally know or have come across are more OK with a mixed race child, or a child who's skin color doesn't match their parent's at all than they are with a same sex couple.



*yes that is a joke