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It's a witchfire, but it doesn't have a weapon profile, so not sure.

No one else is either

 CrownAxe wrote:
No one else is either

Does GW has some Q&A mail address where they communicate with lesser humans to clear questions like this?

They do but they are notorious for either not answering it or answering inconsistently/incorrectly even on obvious issues.

Also this was a problem last edition too and they still haven't answered it.

Yes it needs to roll to hit.

You must roll an indeterminate number of dice, and as some will point out, successful Hits are only linked to To Wound rolls.

It's a witchfire, and witchfires roll to hit. After you hit, then the 3D6 LD test determines the "to wound". At least that's my understanding.

as a witchfire power it requires a to hit roll, the number of dice you roll is most likely 1 dice as you are not told to roll more, and if you rolled more than one you would have to resolve the 3d6 ld test for each one which obviously is not what you are told to do.

blaktoof wrote:
as a witchfire power it requires a to hit roll, the number of dice you roll is most likely 1 dice as you are not told to roll more, and if you rolled more than one you would have to resolve the 3d6 ld test for each one which obviously is not what you are told to do.

While I think this might be how it's 'supposed' to work, the lack of a weapon profile means you don't know if you roll 1 die to hit. What's worse, even if you miss, the Ld test still goes off RAW, because to hit rolls only tie to the To Wound Rolls unless told otherwise.
Since it doesn't have a strength value or AP value (or a '-' for AP), applying shooting rules to the power requires the invention or rules that don't exist.
Failing to invent rules makes you largely bypass the intent of the witchfire rules.

In a nutshell, you're going to have to figure out how your meta/tournament is playing it.

-Matt

From the witchfire powers description:

"witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described in the Blast special rule, or it is a Template weapon"

Asphyx wrote:
From the witchfire powers description:
"witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described in the Blast special rule, or it is a Template weapon"

Right. But working through the shooting sequence and the psychic power. Nothing ties the 3D6 LD test to the to hit roll.
It lacks the rule stating, "On a successful hit, the target takes and Ld test on 3D6 and...."

I'm not saying I play it that way, only showing how it's written.

Asphyx wrote:
From the witchfire powers description:

"witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described in the Blast special rule, or it is a Template weapon"

Yes, you need to roll to hit.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that it's easy to understand. In order for a witchfire ability to do anything, you must role to hit against the unit. If you do not hit, ie roll a 1 using your BS, the witchfire does not manifest. Otherwise how would any weapon work. Telsa Arc doesn't magically bounce to another unit if you do not hit the unit in the first place.

It need s to hit roll, of an unspecified number of dice. As there is no to-wound roll, Whether you successfully hit with your indeterminate number of dice is irrelevant as you MUST resolve the power still.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that it's easy to understand. In order for a witchfire ability to do anything, you must role to hit against the unit.

The rules disagree with this statement. Psychic Shriek is a witchfire that works like a focussed witchfire in which you roll an undetermined number of dice to hit, then ignore those dice (or roll to wound with an undetermined strength) then you apply the effect. If you get 0 hits, 1 hit or 1000 hits the effect is the same. Thus the only way to resolve it is to ignore the roll to hit. Just as you would ignore the unresolvable -1 T from say Enfeeble cast on a Vehicle...

Why people feel the need to invent a number of dice to roll to hit for such witchfires and then try to make that roll relevant. Yet they don't invent a T value for vehicles or try to make that unresolvable action relevant like changing it to "obviously mean -1AV on vehicles because..." I just don't get the inconsistency in the thought process.

Why would you roll to hit with more than one dice for a psychic ability that effects the unit as a whole?

Ontop of that: It's blantantly obvious that -1 T would have no effect on a vehicle, if it was a walker with Strength (which I think Enfeeble also reduces) it would lose strength but not lose toughness as that isn't a characteristic it has. So I don't follow your skewed point of view on that part.

Whacked wrote:
Why would you roll to hit with more than one dice for a psychic ability that effects the unit as a whole?

Ontop of that: It's blantantly obvious that -1 T would have no effect on a vehicle, if it was a walker with Strength (which I think Enfeeble also reduces) it would lose strength but not lose toughness as that isn't a characteristic it has. So I don't follow your skewed point of view on that part.

Why would you roll only one die for a psychic ability that effects the unit as a whole?

Whacked wrote:
Why would you roll to hit with more than one dice for a psychic ability that effects the unit as a whole?

Ontop of that: It's blantantly obvious that -1 T would have no effect on a vehicle, if it was a walker with Strength (which I think Enfeeble also reduces) it would lose strength but not lose toughness as that isn't a characteristic it has. So I don't follow your skewed point of view on that part.

Sorry, please read the tenets. "It's blatantly obvious" isn't a rule

Whacked wrote:
Why would you roll to hit with more than one dice for a psychic ability that effects the unit as a whole?

Ontop of that: It's blantantly obvious that -1 T would have no effect on a vehicle, if it was a walker with Strength (which I think Enfeeble also reduces) it would lose strength but not lose toughness as that isn't a characteristic it has. So I don't follow your skewed point of view on that part.

They are the sane situation we are given an instruction me must follow (roll to hit, apply -1 T modifier) but lack the profile required to resolve it (weapon profile telling us how many shots to fire, toughness value to modify). Why would you treat one situation differently to the other?

The point is that we all ignore unresolvable actions all the time without thinking about it (for instance Psychic Shrieking a vehicle which has no wounds value to apply wounds to). This is the only way to keep the game flowing or it breaks at nearly every turn. Yet for Witchfires when we see the exact same situation a load of people assume the way to proceed is to make up rules and then tie those rules to effects. It is absolutely like either making up a T value for a Vehicle and modifying that or changing it to apply to AV instead. So again why would you approach the situations differently?

I roll (one dice) to hit when I use it, simply because it 's the way that benefits me the least of the two options. (Roll to hit or not roll to hit, that is)

Tigurius really likes to miss with that power, and it makes me sad.

So, as pointed out, this is a known hole in the rules as they currently stand.

Yes, you need to roll to hit. There are no rules telling us how many dice to roll, but there is also no consequence of an unsuccessful roll, so it doesn't really matter how many dice you roll.

Until GW FAQ it (which at this point isn't looking likely to be any time soon) I would recommend either discussing it with your opponent before the game, or just ignoring it entirely.


Locking this one down before it turns into another 10 pages of people arguing over how many dice you need to roll for a pointless to hit roll.