Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With the release of the DE codex and the ability for CWE to access assault transports, has anyone given any thought to running a raider of scorpions (6-8 with exarch) and a 5 man unit of Incubi in a venom together? The incubi would mulch 2+ saves and tough targets whereas the scorpions should be able to destroy any hordes or more TAC squads. They both present a fast threat and should be able to take whatever they can get the charge on. I run CWE normally with a mainly shooty list but was hoping with DE and raiders/venoms I can finally try and add some serious CC punch. I'm also hoping my wraithknight and lord should provide some more target saturation. So would these two units work together or am I better off with just more guns? Also I'd love to be able to use these units together so if you have any other idea on how best to get them to work or combos that would aid them I'd be all ears.

Are scorpions all that good at anything?
I'm just not impressed with 2 S4 and 1 S3 attack.
For the cost, I think I'd rather just have more units of incubi with rampaging Klaives.

They do have an exarch with 4 str 6 ap 2 attacks at int 6.

I think the comparison is a little wrong here - it's not Scorpions and Incubi, it's Scorpions and Mandrakes.

I think they make a pretty brutal infiltrating combo, and the mandrakes add a little shooting to what would otherwise be the almost exclusive melee power of the scorpions.

Belac Ynnead wrote:
I think the comparison is a little wrong here - it's not Scorpions and Incubi, it's Scorpions and Mandrakes.

I think they make a pretty brutal infiltrating combo, and the mandrakes add a little shooting to what would otherwise be the almost exclusive melee power of the scorpions.

Shhhh. Don't tell people about mandrakes. I want to blindside people. 20 S4 shots, followed by 30 S4 attacks, S5 once furious kicks in is pretty solid for 120 points.

thank you for telling me, shoot the mandrakes lol.

I've never been an eldar fan of any flavor, but these DE sure do look tempting....

 zachwho wrote:
thank you for telling me, shoot the mandrakes lol.

I've never been an eldar fan of any flavor, but these DE sure do look tempting....

Stealth and shrouded mandrakes, with move through cover, infiltrate, fear, fleet and power from pain.

Hey flayed ones, you jealous?

Yeah, what's the ruling again on if you stick Scorpions in a Raider purchased, wouldn't they gain outflank?

Not sure about that though.

Wonder if this makes Banshees semiviable?

I like banshees in a venom, not overly threatening but better and cheaper at killing combat squads IMO. Incubi overkill 5 MEQ and are usually left out to dry. 5 banshees + and exarch will take 2 phases and be free to assault another combat squad.

140pts for 5 in a dual canon venom. They also have shuriken pistols for faux rending.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I like banshees in a venom, not overly threatening but better and cheaper at killing combat squads IMO. Incubi overkill 5 MEQ and are usually left out to dry. 5 banshees + and exarch will take 2 phases and be free to assault another combat squad.
140pts for 5 in a dual canon venom. They also have shuriken pistols for faux rending.

Minimum incubi (3 guys) with klaive upgrade gets ~10 +D3 attacks, hits on 3+ kills on 4+. On average, they kill 4 marines, and are still packing the AP2 to hit the big boys.
Minimum banshees risk not getting it done in 2 rounds, and cost 5 points more.

Banshees still stay on the shelf for me. S3, no grenades, 4+, AP3 . For only 4 points more I get S4, still no grenades, 3+, AP2.

I say this having a squad oc painted Banshees I wish I could use but, my Incubi are painted as well. Tactically, I would never, ever use Banshees in place of, or alongside, Incubi.

Scorpions are worth notice due to Infiltrate, Stealth and 3+.

Mind you, for melee, BeastPack or Grotesques do it so much better anyway. Damn shame too, I have 2 full maxed-out painted squads of Scorpions. I'm bitter.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Belac Ynnead wrote:
I think the comparison is a little wrong here - it's not Scorpions and Incubi, it's Scorpions and Mandrakes.

I think they make a pretty brutal infiltrating combo, and the mandrakes add a little shooting to what would otherwise be the almost exclusive melee power of the scorpions.

Shhhh. Don't tell people about mandrakes. I want to blindside people. 20 S4 shots, followed by 30 S4 attacks, S5 once furious kicks in is pretty solid for 120 points.

This gives me a mean idea for my giant Xenos vs Imperium battle I'm going to be doing.

 RancidHate wrote:
Banshees still stay on the shelf for me. S3, no grenades, 4+, AP3 . For only 4 points more I get S4, still no grenades, 3+, AP2.

I say this having a squad oc painted Banshees I wish I could use but, my Incubi are painted as well. Tactically, I would never, ever use Banshees in place of, or alongside, Incubi.

Scorpions are worth notice due to Infiltrate, Stealth and 3+.

Mind you, for melee, BeastPack or Grotesques do it so much better anyway. Damn shame too, I have 2 full maxed-out painted squads of Scorpions. I'm bitter.

Well to be fair we are analyzing units that still suck all around when compared to other units in the same codex let alone eldar as well.

I think if you want to field banshees now, the differences between them and incubi are minimal, also worth noting that if their ride drops they are much faster with d6+3" run moves that know one ever likes to address. The masks also make them better in terrain despite lacking grenades as well.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 RancidHate wrote:
Banshees still stay on the shelf for me. S3, no grenades, 4+, AP3 . For only 4 points more I get S4, still no grenades, 3+, AP2.

I say this having a squad oc painted Banshees I wish I could use but, my Incubi are painted as well. Tactically, I would never, ever use Banshees in place of, or alongside, Incubi.

Scorpions are worth notice due to Infiltrate, Stealth and 3+.

Mind you, for melee, BeastPack or Grotesques do it so much better anyway. Damn shame too, I have 2 full maxed-out painted squads of Scorpions. I'm bitter.

Well to be fair we are analyzing units that still suck all around when compared to other units in the same codex let alone eldar as well.

I think if you want to field banshees now, the differences between them and incubi are minimal, also worth noting that if their ride drops they are much faster with d6+3" run moves that know one ever likes to address. The masks also make them better in terrain despite lacking grenades as well.

I would disagree entirely. Incubi have AP2 and STR 4 and 3+ armour. All are huge advantages over S3 AP3 4+ armour. Banshees are unplayable, while Incubi are somewhat useful, especially in squads of 3 w/Klaviex.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

I would disagree entirely. Incubi have AP2 and STR 4 and 3+ armour. All are huge advantages over S3 AP3 4+ armour. Banshees are unplayable, while Incubi are somewhat useful, especially in squads of 3 w/Klaviex.

And WS5. It's a big difference in a WS4 world.

Pretty sure Scorpions allow Outflank, with Venoms that's pretty cool.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 zachwho wrote:
thank you for telling me, shoot the mandrakes lol.

I've never been an eldar fan of any flavor, but these DE sure do look tempting....

Stealth and shrouded mandrakes, with move through cover, infiltrate, fear, fleet and power from pain.

Hey flayed ones, you jealous?

flayed ones are very jelly

Hollismason wrote:
Pretty sure Scorpions allow Outflank, with Venoms that's pretty cool.

They can't outflank in a Venom, lol.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

I would disagree entirely. Incubi have AP2 and STR 4 and 3+ armour. All are huge advantages over S3 AP3 4+ armour. Banshees are unplayable, while Incubi are somewhat useful, especially in squads of 3 w/Klaviex.

And WS5. It's a big difference in a WS4 world.

True, but so are shuriken pistols and banshee masks. A volley of shuriken pistol fire is closer in punch to rapid firing bolters than bolt pistols against marines, and - as it happens - Incubi are one of the best examples of stuff I would sic banshees on.

I'm not saying banshees are great. But they're not as unplayable as people seem to insist they are.

locarno24 wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

I would disagree entirely. Incubi have AP2 and STR 4 and 3+ armour. All are huge advantages over S3 AP3 4+ armour. Banshees are unplayable, while Incubi are somewhat useful, especially in squads of 3 w/Klaviex.

And WS5. It's a big difference in a WS4 world.

True, but so are shuriken pistols and banshee masks. A volley of shuriken pistol fire is closer in punch to rapid firing bolters than bolt pistols against marines, and - as it happens - Incubi are one of the best examples of stuff I would sic banshees on.
I'm not saying banshees are great. But they're not as unplayable as people seem to insist they are.

I wouldn't call them unplayable. And 70 points for the Incubi, and 75 for the banshees, why not play both? It's not like you don't want the extra venom anyway.

-Matt