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So everything considered, regardless of people being disappointed that Wracks cannot be troops, which is kind of not true considering there's a formation that specifically is 6 Elites. So yeah, you've got a great book with some really cool special rules , a great game mechanic for play style, seriously that chart literally changes the way you want to play the army. Units got bigger and units got special abilities they didn't have before.

The thing that I was like " Yeah, you should have been doing this all along" , is the actual GW support of Different Formations, which are excellent. All told D. Eldar have 8 solid formations, two specifically great Detachment types.

Anyway I'm sure some disagree with me but just looking at the codex and supplements it looks great to me and really interesting.

Yeah, they're interesting. But my view is that they've been interesting since the old codex, and the new one removed awesome HQs. Yes, I like the formations and changes to Wracks and Mandrakes and the like, but now my Baron is only a special looking hellion. So many unique entries, gone.

I'm a space marine player and this new codec got be VERY interested to learn about the dark eldar. Considering purchasing a 2000 point force of them. The problem is I know nothing of them at all.

The LAST codex was interesting, unique, and good. This codex removed a lot more options then it added, including reducing the army to having just 1 usable troop choice.

I like the overall design and look of the codex, but not sure about how it plays. My buddy who plays DE main says they got stronger and weaker. They're more fragile, but also got some new tools. I'm interested to see how they perform over the long run

I think the big thing to note that when people talk about the army is that I look at it all as a whole.

I think at some point we will see Vect, but maybe not for a while.

That said though, if you actually take it as a whole w/ the 3 different types and what GW was going for it's incredibly interesting.

I mean they gave the army a Murderpack. 5 Talos that scout and that's fantastic, the unit even comes standard w/ Fearless.

Then you get into the different formations for the Wracks which are all excellent. Almost every single one has something that you'd say " Oaky that is quite good".

It's just people are kind of locked into this BAO , restrictive mindset I think and can't see what's been given them.

If you play the game as intended with Multiple Cads, Formations etc.. everything opens up to being more enjoyable.

Well, I think the new codices released recently were made in a hasty manner.
Here DE is no exception. No LoW. Mediocre anti-air. Wyches had deserved a better treatment.

Clearly ment to play with eldar as ally or be eldar ally. Same thing happened with GK, where playing without SM or SW ally only limits the options to 4 units out of the whole codex.

Is it true that the codex has like almost 50 pages of fluff?

Yes, it's true. The majority of it is even new as well, and it's great fluff, Since the End Times i think all their fluff has been a league above before.

I like the new codex, We shouldn't whine unduly about the loss of Commaragh's nobility (The Baron, Duke, Lady and Lord), special characters come and go all the time with every edition, and it's clear that these new codexes are trying to play down the amount of these characters. Orks lost quite a few, as did Grey Knights. It's just the direction they are going in, and as long as it applies to everyone (They will get to Eldar codex with it's 9 characters eventually. I foresee the Phoenix Lords becoming an Assasin like detachment) then i don't see it as a massive nerf.

The Power From Pain is leagues above what it was before, my scourges are now useable (after i convert a few more special weapons) and i can now use my Reavers and my Scourges in the same list due to an amazing detachment.Sure Wyches took the wrong end of the stick, but now we have usable Mandrakes.

We need to bring the rest of the codexes DOWN to our level to make a balanced game, not up to the proportions of Eldar and Tau. They will be redone and they will be balanced like the rest of the recent codexes. DOWN WITH THE POWER CREEP!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
We need to bring the rest of the codexes DOWN to our level to make a balanced game, not up to the proportions of Eldar and Tau. They will be redone and they will be balanced like the rest of the recent codexes. DOWN WITH THE POWER CREEP!

implying any Eldar or Tau player will want to spend 30 quid before the end of 2016 to trade their full-color hardback for a worse full-color hardback

The new codex is excellent yes. As was the previous one. GW seems to love DE. Maybe because they share so much in common?

Reading all of this is really encouraging me to invest in DE!! I love their aesthetics and they just sound more and more interesting by the minute!!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
We shouldn't whine unduly about the loss of Commaragh's nobility (The Baron, Duke, Lady and Lord), special characters come and go all the time with every edition, and it's clear that these new codexes are trying to play down the amount of these characters. Orks lost quite a few, as did Grey Knights. It's just the direction they are going in, and as long as it applies to everyone (They will get to Eldar codex with it's 9 characters eventually. I foresee the Phoenix Lords becoming an Assasin like detachment) then i don't see it as a massive nerf.

I could agree with this if GW only gave the generic HQ a good and varied availability of wargear and special abilities. Most only have about 1-2weapons worth choosing and 1 "must have" defensive item with no special abilities or support choices (something to buff your squad or nearby allies).
You can ofcourse make a good HQ and in some codexes the "must take" still make them quiet powerful but its the lack of options wich i am against and with no unique characters it will be even less.
Last just to clarify i'm not talking about insane/op wargear or abilities just alot of options (worth picking) to make your lord unique and personal.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
We need to bring the rest of the codexes DOWN to our level to make a balanced game, not up to the proportions of Eldar and Tau. They will be redone and they will be balanced like the rest of the recent codexes. DOWN WITH THE POWER CREEP!

implying any Eldar or Tau player will want to spend 30 quid before the end of 2016 to trade their full-color hardback for a worse full-color hardback

quite the opposite really, I'm Implying any Eldar or Tau player will gladly swap their horribly internally balanced books for one with a good balance. I think most Eldar players would actually like it is the Wave Serpent was nerfed, but only if footdar was viable or the Falcon could compete for dedicated transport. I think people would gladly take Crisis Suits and Stealth Suits over Riptides if the Riptide was brought down a level and the Crisis was brought to the same one. External Balance can only be achieved after Internal Balance has been, which is something eldar and tau books are terrible at.

My experience with the new book has been a roller coaster ride.

I was super excited in the period leading up to the release, expecting some rending elements, akin to the Eldar rending. After all, DE are described as being more concerned with the CQC skills, putting me in mind of finding ways through your enemies defences. But that wasn't the case and I was sad. Then the complete loss of Vect. Because he doesn't have a model. The big baddie of our Army, and he got cut because he doesn't have a model. This model company couldn't take the time to give him a model, while SW Big Baddie got a reboot with a silly Chariot!
But that wasn't the end of roller coaster decline for me. Our characters lost out on options. A lot of them. No plain jane Ghostplate armor for my Archon. I have to get the special suit that does extra stuff. That I can only have one of in the entire army, an he can't take any other Relic gear. One piece per model.
You have Space Marine Chapter Masters rolling around with Shield Eternal and The Burning blade on bikes, and I can't choose any other piece of Relic gear on my HQ because I want a 4+ armor save for when my Shadow Field breaks. That was about the end of the descent.

Then I got past my melancholy and actually started looking through the units, and man did we get buffs. Thus begins the uphill climb. Our vehicles gained DS which rocks. Them being Fast vehicles they still get to fire two weapons at full BS after moving cruising speed.

We can get 3+ jink saves for almost every boat we have. Mandrakes got the love they needed. Incubi are still doing their thing. Kabalite got better being cheaper

Succubus has the chance to get S5 ap2 attacks, if you get the right combat drug along with her Archite Glaive. Oh and the best thing I can think to do with the Archon is Soul Trap, Agonizer, Shadow Field. Agonizer is same points as Huskblade, but you can maximize the wounds you're sucking off characters an gain re-rolls because poisoned shenanigans

And I'm still finding plenty of fun things I can do with the different units.

TL/DR: No more beatstick HQs, look to your boats and other units

Templar_Grist wrote:


TL/DR: No more beatstick HQs, look to your boats and other units

You say that, but slap a haemonculus with a WWP and 4 grotesques in a deep striking raider and watch that unit just tear through stuff.

 Makenshi wrote:

Templar_Grist wrote:


TL/DR: No more beatstick HQs, look to your boats and other units

You say that, but slap a haemonculus with a WWP and 4 grotesques in a deep striking raider and watch that unit just tear through stuff.

Is the haemonculus actually doing much other than buffing the grots or is it just the grots wrecking face? I admit I haven't looked into the haemonculus yet to see what he's capable o . I know he counts current turn one higher for PfP

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:


I like the new codex, We shouldn't whine unduly about the loss of Commaragh's nobility (The Baron, Duke, Lady and Lord), special characters come and go all the time with every edition, and it's clear that these new codexes are trying to play down the amount of these characters. Orks lost quite a few, as did Grey Knights. It's just the direction they are going in

No, we absolutely should whine about the removal of these characters, because the only reason they've removed the characters is for purely financial reasons. Any character that doesn't have a model gets axed and even characters with models but are old as hell like Al'Rahem gets axed, purely because GW can't make money off of them and they want to stick it to Chapterhouse for kicking their ass in Court.

GW invalidating peoples' playstyles and removing flavor because they're butthurt about losing a lawsuit and they're too lazy to properly balance their game is deplorable behavior that should never, ever be supported or forgiven. When you shrug about it and move on, you're validating their actions.

I'm ambivalent about the army beyond that. Mostly ambivalent about all of the 7th edition codices.

Oh please. How many people really used Al'Rahem?

Pretending he was an "army defining character" is ridiculous. He was a "platoon defining character", at best. Same with Chenkov.

How many people used Modrak and Thawn for GK? Last I checked most people loved Modrak and people like taking Thawn in fluffy lists because his gimmick was fun.

And Modrak was army defining.

I think Al'Rahem and Chenkov were pretty popular. Meaning more than 1 in 10 IG players had one of the two in their list. More like 1 in 6 IG players, with Chenkov probably being more popular.

And Rough Riders only become worth their points with Kamir. This was already back in 5th edition mind you, when even a regular Rough Rider could impale a terminator on the charge. Now RRs are beyond useless. I feel sorry for the peeps who shelled out lots of money for the DKoK sculpts (the only mounts befitting the 40k setting).

Marbo was perhaps rarer, but a fan favorite. Nobody cared about Bastonne.

Even as a non DE player I feel for the DE players' loss of FOUR special characters. Back in the day codex releases actually meant something because they were accompanied by a huge revamp of the miniatures range. Heck, this was the case all the way upto 2014, but after the Nid release GW has been pumping out codexes with only a handful of new models to go with each release (arguably the SW one being the best after the Nid release)

Templar_Grist wrote:

 Makenshi wrote:

Templar_Grist wrote:


TL/DR: No more beatstick HQs, look to your boats and other units

You say that, but slap a haemonculus with a WWP and 4 grotesques in a deep striking raider and watch that unit just tear through stuff.

Is the haemonculus actually doing much other than buffing the grots or is it just the grots wrecking face? I admit I haven't looked into the haemonculus yet to see what he's capable o . I know he counts current turn one higher for PfP

I've been waiting to hear results of people running large packs of Grotesques with a Haemonculus. I think the Haemy is necessary to bump up the PFP table for them to get FNP right away, and to buff their leadership unless using the Covens supplement. Have any of you used, say a 10 man Grotesque unit with Haemy and WWP yet? I'd be curious if 10 of those big fellas is overkill, or an awesome murder unit.

WWP in a big squad like that wouldn't be useful because grots are bulky.

 Sir Arun wrote:
I think Al'Rahem and Chenkov were pretty popular. Meaning more than 1 in 10 IG players had one of the two in their list. More like 1 in 6 IG players, with Chenkov probably being more popular.

Al'Rahem and Chenkov were platoon upgrade characters, not HQs. They gave you a gimmick for a single Platoon.

What defined Al'Rahem is now an AM Warlord trait affecting D3 units in your primary detachment. Chenkov's gimmick is gone though, and I can't really say I am sorry to see it gone.

And Rough Riders only become worth their points with Kamir. This was already back in 5th edition mind you, when even a regular Rough Rider could impale a terminator on the charge. Now RRs are beyond useless. I feel sorry for the peeps who shelled out lots of money for the DKoK sculpts (the only mounts befitting the 40k setting).

Yeah, because people only use things that are effective right?

Rough Riders aren't "beyond useless". They just aren't great because the FA slots for AM have to compete with junk like the Vendetta or Valkyrie.

Personally I would like to see the Vendetta completely removed, period, from the AM book.

Marbo was perhaps rarer, but a fan favorite. Nobody cared about Bastonne.

I cared about Bastonne. I used him pretty regularly, but then I also fielded pretty exclusively Grenadier forces with no Vendettas or any of the normal gimmicks.
I have 9 Sentinels too that get fielded pretty regularly; 6 with Autocannons and 3 with Plasma Cannons and all as Armored.

Even as a non DE player I feel for the DE players' loss of FOUR special characters.

And pretending that somehow there is a comparison between DE players losing four HQ choices to a bunch of random Troop/FA upgrade characters is silly.

Back in the day codex releases actually meant something because they were accompanied by a huge revamp of the miniatures range.

The fact that High Elves, arguably one of their best selling Fantasy armies, has had the same Spearman and Bowman box for almost as long as I have been playing begs to differ.

There is a "huge revamp of the miniatures range" when it seems that sales can be impacted by it.

Heck, this was the case all the way upto 2014, but after the Nid release GW has been pumping out codexes with only a handful of new models to go with each release (arguably the SW one being the best after the Nid release)

What really is left to release that wouldn't require an overhaul of the entire aesthetics of a range?

Templar_Grist wrote:
WWP in a big squad like that wouldn't be useful because grots are bulky.

Why would it matter if they're bulky? I don't think WWP is affected by that. If you meant because they can't fit in a raider, I was referring to dropping them in on foot.

 Homeskillet wrote:

Templar_Grist wrote:
WWP in a big squad like that wouldn't be useful because grots are bulky.

Why would it matter if they're bulky? I don't think WWP is affected by that. If you meant because they can't fit in a raider, I was referring to dropping them in on foot.

My mistake, sir. I completely missed that WWP actually gives Deep Strike. I thought it just prevented scattering. So yeah, I image that unit would be the utmost killy. However, they'd be totally exposed with little in the way of shooting capabilities while they wait for the chance one turn away to assault. If you can get through that one turn of probable heavy loss in a expensive unit you'd be golden...On paper, lol. I may have to pick up some grotesques and try this out.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think the new codices released recently were made in a hasty manner.
Here DE is no exception. No LoW.

I'n not slating your opinion here, but posts like this just show that GW can't win as far as pleasing people like us goes. When the Ork Codex hit, people were complaining about the inclusion of the Stompa and the fact that Gaz was a LoW. Now a Codex drops without one, and we complain.

I like this Codex. GW did remove some characters in what was a rather unnecessary and disappointing move, but added in lots of good, interesting new mechanics and brought a lot of bad units up to par, whilst not hitting anything with the nerf bat too hard.

 The Shadow wrote:

I'n not slating your opinion here, but posts like this just show that GW can't win as far as pleasing people like us goes. When the Ork Codex hit, people were complaining about the inclusion of the Stompa and the fact that Gaz was a LoW. Now a Codex drops without one, and we complain.

I like this Codex. GW did remove some characters in what was a rather unnecessary and disappointing move, but added in lots of good, interesting new mechanics and brought a lot of bad units up to par, whilst not hitting anything with the nerf bat too hard.

I would argue that Wyches got nerfed rather extensively. Hydra gauntlets lost d6 attacks, gains shred at ap5, pretty meh for 2 attacks, 3 on a charge. Lost Haywire spam, unfortunately. Thankfully kept their 4++ though. Just not enough going to want to field them.

 The Shadow wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think the new codices released recently were made in a hasty manner.
Here DE is no exception. No LoW.

I'n not slating your opinion here, but posts like this just show that GW can't win as far as pleasing people like us goes. When the Ork Codex hit, people were complaining about the inclusion of the Stompa and the fact that Gaz was a LoW. Now a Codex drops without one, and we complain.

I like this Codex. GW did remove some characters in what was a rather unnecessary and disappointing move, but added in lots of good, interesting new mechanics and brought a lot of bad units up to par, whilst not hitting anything with the nerf bat too hard.

I think the issue is less that they necessarily want lords of war in the codex, but that GW can't seem to make up their mind as to what they want. I can understand not wanting LoWs in the codex to begin with, but if three of the four 7th edition codices have them, why doesn't the fourth? It just seems like they couldn't be bothered to put the time and effort into designing one, or adjusting any of the existing ones to fit.