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Ask him if he has ever though about painting his minis or has any interest in having them painted for him. If he says yes, see if you can help him with that. If he says no, that he likes to play his minis the way they are, do not try to force him to change, do not complain, do not make snide comments. He has a right to play the game the way he wants just as much as you do. If you can't come to an agreement, perhaps you should look elsewhere for someone to play.

Its not your army nor your place to tell someone HOW to play and go about their hobby. I can understand where he is coming from wanting the models to look good (I pay people to paint my armies since I have work, school, Military duties, GF, family ect) taking priority. Be happy you have someone to play against.

step 1:pull your head out of your fecal matter chute step 2: accept that this is a game, not an art show step 3: have fun and enjoy your time playing the game and get to know your opponent

99% of my stuff is not painted, i'm a horrible artist so painting one model takes me hours to get half way decent, yet i still have a blast playing my boring primed figs against fellow boring primed figs

I'm going to echo the "they're his models; suck it up or find another opponent" replies.

I'd also suggest not trying to push him to paint his models through antagonising him, or through things such as the previously mentioned "preferred enemy against unpainted models" house rule. That stuff might make him paint his models, but will he enjoy it? Probably not. Will he like you for it? Sure as hell won't. Will it have been worth it? Well that's up to you, since you'll have been the one trying to make somebody else change for your own personal happiness.

OMG I really hate when my opponent doesn't put a decent amount of effort into his bases.

This guy I know just quickly slaps on a colour (not even covering it neatly) and then just throws on some sand.

It really destroys the immersion, and sucks the fun out of the game for me.

Steelmage99 wrote:
OMG I really hate when my opponent doesn't put a decent amount of effort into his bases.

This guy I know just quickly slaps on a colour (not even covering it neatly) and then just throws on some sand.

It really destroys the immersion, and sucks the fun out of the game for me.

What is even worse is when they make a base look nice but it doesn't fit the type of the table. Everyone should have separate bases for grass, city fight , lava world and ice world. Otherwise it is not possible to start forging the narrative.

Makumba wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:
OMG I really hate when my opponent doesn't put a decent amount of effort into his bases.

This guy I know just quickly slaps on a colour (not even covering it neatly) and then just throws on some sand.

It really destroys the immersion, and sucks the fun out of the game for me.

What is even worse is when they make a base look nice but it doesn't fit the type of the table. Everyone should have separate bases for grass, city fight , lava world and ice world. Otherwise it is not possible to start forging the narrative.

Or if they don't get into the fluff properly.
I mean how hard can it be to name your commander and sergeants?
This guy I know doesn't even have a battle-cry for his army.
I am tired of his BS excuses. How difficult is it to write a few pages of back-story.
He says that he hasn't got the time and that he isn't a good enough write to do a good job, but we all know that he is just being lazy.

Steelmage99 wrote:

Makumba wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:
OMG I really hate when my opponent doesn't put a decent amount of effort into his bases.

This guy I know just quickly slaps on a colour (not even covering it neatly) and then just throws on some sand.

It really destroys the immersion, and sucks the fun out of the game for me.

What is even worse is when they make a base look nice but it doesn't fit the type of the table. Everyone should have separate bases for grass, city fight , lava world and ice world. Otherwise it is not possible to start forging the narrative.

Or if they don't get into the fluff properly.
I mean how hard can it be to name your commander and sergeants?
This guy I know doesn't even have a battle-cry for his army.
I am tired of his BS excuses. How difficult is it to write a few pages of back-story.
He says that he hasn't got the time and that he isn't a good enough write to do a good job, but we all know that he is just being lazy.

But I do...
My Flyrant is named Flyrant.
My Zoanthrope is named Zoey
My Venomthope is named Venom
And My Tervigon is named Clover.

My battlecry is "BLARG!"

IMO, EVERY paintjob is better than just plain grey. If you are good painter, try to teach him to just do a proper undercoat and basecoat one day instead of gaming. Then throw some washes. Then do what comes after washes i have no friggin idea xD just look at my 2 gallery pics lol.
He will VERY LIKELY get into painting. But if he refuses, don't freak out and throw a fit because then when a third person observes YOU are TFG... good luck

Two Words: Frontline Gaming

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Our club had an escalation league which rewarded having painted and converted models each session with bonus points to spend on apocalypse cards for the campaign final.

We had a mix of people who were brand new (and literally played the first 250pt game with their only models) and people who had been playing for a while but had never really got into painting - at the end of the campaign we had mostly painted armies from pretty much everyone. It was great fun for the gamers and the painters and the converters alike.

See if your local area is running something like that, or if not, start one up

Been in leagues where people with painted models were rewarded with bonus points in fights to encourage people to take part in that side of the hobby and learn/improve their painting skills. Instead we found it unfairly rewarded players who bought their stuff fully painted from others who did all the work for them and it was eventually dropped. Painted models as a standard for considering someone a valid opponent is just another form of hubris. "I took the time to paint my army so why can't they?". That level of hubris also has some crazy extremes like those who won't play in an historical game if an opponent doesn't have a perfectly accurate camouflage pattern on their tanks to those who will expect an opponent with an unpainted army to use one of their own fully painted armies for the "privilege" of playing a game with them.

The hobby is definitely different things to different people. I've painted and sold off more armies through the years than many painting elitists have ever owned. Don't have any fully painted 40k armies these days as even my oldest khorne chaos marine army keeps growing and having parts added to it that I just haven't had the time to get painted as my schedule is just too crazy these days. It usually comes down to "I have time for a game!" or "I have time to paint!" and the game will win out every time if I can find an opponent.

Skriker

Verviedi wrote:
My most consistent opponent is often the only person at the game store with me. He has four armies. All monchrome grey.
Grey Chaos, Grey Tau, Grey Nids, and Grey Orks.
I am sick of his BS excuses, and he justifies not painting with "Models are expensive and I can't practice" and "Unless it's GD standard it looks crappy". Since he's my only opponent most of the time, how do I make him paint?

I paint every single one of my models, and I have 3 armies. 4,000 points of Eldar, 2,500 points of Guard, and 2,000 points of Nids. All painted within a week of getting the model.

Show him speed washing. Its a good starting point for learning how to blend. It works really well on guard and nids.

Don't be surprised if he wont do it though, the unpainted purists will use every excuse to get out of it. Even offer to help. If you get more excuses its a lost cause.

Best suggestions in descending order:

1) Ask him to come over and paint some night with you or meet at the hobby shop.
2) Be happy he did not prime in matt black.
3) Try to find / develop other players of 40k at your hobby shop, then give them preference and let it be known why.
4) Say "Humor me, what would it take to get you to paint something?", you may be surprised.
5) Show up a few nights without your army, and say "your not into it anymore".
6) Quit playing since it is not the game you want, play something else with more players with painted armies.
7) Break into his house at night and paint his miniatures.

There.
I figure I would just make steady fun of the person and play anyway till they paint to get me to stop for being TFG.

Badly painted models look much worse than unpainted ones.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:
I feel like if you have to say 'not to be that guy' you're being that guy.

My point is unless he's paint GD standard, then he doesn't really have room to be giving the other guy gak. It's fine to be annoyed at his unpainted army, but just don't play him.

So, you don't give an opinion on films because you've not produced any oscar winning films I take it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skriker wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Our club had an escalation league which rewarded having painted and converted models each session with bonus points to spend on apocalypse cards for the campaign final.

We had a mix of people who were brand new (and literally played the first 250pt game with their only models) and people who had been playing for a while but had never really got into painting - at the end of the campaign we had mostly painted armies from pretty much everyone. It was great fun for the gamers and the painters and the converters alike.

See if your local area is running something like that, or if not, start one up

Been in leagues where people with painted models were rewarded with bonus points in fights to encourage people to take part in that side of the hobby and learn/improve their painting skills. Instead we found it unfairly rewarded players who bought their stuff fully painted from others who did all the work for them and it was eventually dropped. Painted models as a standard for considering someone a valid opponent is just another form of hubris. "I took the time to paint my army so why can't they?". That level of hubris also has some crazy extremes like those who won't play in an historical game if an opponent doesn't have a perfectly accurate camouflage pattern on their tanks to those who will expect an opponent with an unpainted army to use one of their own fully painted armies for the "privilege" of playing a game with them.

The hobby is definitely different things to different people. I've painted and sold off more armies through the years than many painting elitists have ever owned. Don't have any fully painted 40k armies these days as even my oldest khorne chaos marine army keeps growing and having parts added to it that I just haven't had the time to get painted as my schedule is just too crazy these days. It usually comes down to "I have time for a game!" or "I have time to paint!" and the game will win out every time if I can find an opponent.

Skriker

It does depend on your playerbase, but our club is very relaxed and informal so we had no issues with people "abusing" the system.

I think some of you are being way too hard on the OP.

Yes, none of us can make people do parts of the hobby they don't enjoy.

However, we have to realize that this isn't a hobby enjoyed in a vacuum, atleast usually. When you put models down on the table to play a game, you usually spend just as much time looking at your opponents models as you do your own. For those of us who really like the painting and fluff aspects of the hobby, seeing armies on the table that actually look like armies and not like grey paste-men is a big deal. It does alot for the immersion into these grimdark worlds if both armies actually look like they are real participants. By that logic, you could make the argument that people that refuse to paint their armies are hurting other people's hobby experience just as much as we would be by demanding another player to paint all their stuff. It sucks when you get all your guys painted, get them on a table to battle in a dark fantasy or sci fi setting, and then see that they aren't actually fighting other people from that setting, but rather grey blob men. You put in the work in the hopes that you better the experience of your opponent. It isn't ridiculous to expect the same.

EddieJA wrote:
I think some of you are being way too hard on the OP.

Yes, none of us can make people do parts of the hobby they don't enjoy.

However, we have to realize that this isn't a hobby enjoyed in a vacuum, atleast usually. When you put models down on the table to play a game, you usually spend just as much time looking at your opponents models as you do your own. For those of us who really like the painting and fluff aspects of the hobby, seeing armies on the table that actually look like armies and not like grey paste-men is a big deal. It does alot for the immersion into these grimdark worlds if both armies actually look like they are real participants. By that logic, you could make the argument that people that refuse to paint their armies are hurting other people's hobby experience just as much as we would be by demanding another player to paint all their stuff. It sucks when you get all your guys painted, get them on a table to battle in a dark fantasy or sci fi setting, and then see that they aren't actually fighting other people from that setting, but rather grey blob men. You put in the work in the hopes that you better the experience of your opponent. It isn't ridiculous to expect the same.

Could not upvote enough.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:
I feel like if you have to say 'not to be that guy' you're being that guy.

My point is unless he's paint GD standard, then he doesn't really have room to be giving the other guy gak. It's fine to be annoyed at his unpainted army, but just don't play him.

So, you don't give an opinion on films because you've not produced any oscar winning films I take it?

Thanks Silver if I was talking to a film director, I wouldn't spend the entire time going "God your films suck! When are you going to learn to be a better film director?"

EddieJA wrote:
I think some of you are being way too hard on the OP.

Yes, none of us can make people do parts of the hobby they don't enjoy.

However, we have to realize that this isn't a hobby enjoyed in a vacuum, atleast usually. When you put models down on the table to play a game, you usually spend just as much time looking at your opponents models as you do your own. For those of us who really like the painting and fluff aspects of the hobby, seeing armies on the table that actually look like armies and not like grey paste-men is a big deal. It does alot for the immersion into these grimdark worlds if both armies actually look like they are real participants. By that logic, you could make the argument that people that refuse to paint their armies are hurting other people's hobby experience just as much as we would be by demanding another player to paint all their stuff. It sucks when you get all your guys painted, get them on a table to battle in a dark fantasy or sci fi setting, and then see that they aren't actually fighting other people from that setting, but rather grey blob men. You put in the work in the hopes that you better the experience of your opponent. It isn't ridiculous to expect the same.

So is someone forcing you to play against grey armies? I don't understand how it could possibly hurt your experience unless you let it. If it hurts your experience, don't do it.

However, we have to realize that this isn't a hobby enjoyed in a vacuum, atleast usually. When you put models down on the table to play a game, you usually spend just as much time looking at your opponents models as you do your own. For those of us who really like the painting and fluff aspects of the hobby, seeing armies on the table that actually look like armies and not like grey paste-men is a big deal. It does alot for the immersion into these grimdark worlds if both armies actually look like they are real participants. By that logic, you could make the argument that people that refuse to paint their armies are hurting other people's hobby experience just as much as we would be by demanding another player to paint all their stuff. It sucks when you get all your guys painted, get them on a table to battle in a dark fantasy or sci fi setting, and then see that they aren't actually fighting other people from that setting, but rather grey blob men. You put in the work in the hopes that you better the experience of your opponent. It isn't ridiculous to expect the same.

Except where does it end? I could just as easily take your "real participants" comment and say "You painted all your bloodthirsters bubblegum pink with a dark blue wash (yes, that's something I've played against). The color is inappropriate/unrealiztic for Khorne and ruins my immersion in the grimdark. How about we get together this weekend, eat some chips and salsa, and I'll show you what colors your army SHOULD be ..."

Or how about if player A paints to a very high standard while player B paints, but is terrible at it. If player A says, "You don't paint to my standard, I will not play you", jerk move right?

The OP (as already mentioned) is basically accusing his opponent of having fun wrong and that's silly imo. He didn't phrase the question as "Advice for helping someone enjoy painting in a friendly way" or something like that. No. He said "HELP! etc etc".

To the OP: As others have said, you could politely suggest helping him, or ask if there's anything you can do to help him enjoy the hobby side more, but at the end of it all remember, he's your ONLY opponent right now. What's better? A grey plastic army across the table, or NO army across the table?

Personally, I prefer to play against painted armies for sure, and my own armies will typically all be painted, but I will also happily play someone who had non-painted armies as well. I just can't bring myself to take my war-dollies that seriously ...

EddieJA wrote:
I think some of you are being way too hard on the OP.

Yes, none of us can make people do parts of the hobby they don't enjoy.

However, we have to realize that this isn't a hobby enjoyed in a vacuum, atleast usually. When you put models down on the table to play a game, you usually spend just as much time looking at your opponents models as you do your own. For those of us who really like the painting and fluff aspects of the hobby, seeing armies on the table that actually look like armies and not like grey paste-men is a big deal. It does alot for the immersion into these grimdark worlds if both armies actually look like they are real participants. By that logic, you could make the argument that people that refuse to paint their armies are hurting other people's hobby experience just as much as we would be by demanding another player to paint all their stuff. It sucks when you get all your guys painted, get them on a table to battle in a dark fantasy or sci fi setting, and then see that they aren't actually fighting other people from that setting, but rather grey blob men. You put in the work in the hopes that you better the experience of your opponent. It isn't ridiculous to expect the same.

So If I don't like to paint, I never did it and don't have the cash and time and space to do it, and my opponent wants to paint. It is ok for him to force me to, but It is not ok for me not to? Suddenly somehow his enjoyment of the game is more important, because he is spending more cash on the hobby ?

And if someone needs to get in to a world of green hooligans and muscle super man, then there is medicin for it.

Changed OP to sound nicer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Changed OP to sound nicer.

Seriously, it's HIS army and you cannot make him paint it against his will. If he is fine with buying and modeling the models, who are you to tell him he isn't playing the hobby right?

What is it with people who almost take it as a personal insult that their opponent brings an unpainted army.

EddieJA wrote:
By that logic, you could make the argument that people that refuse to paint their armies are hurting other people's hobby experience just as much as we would be by demanding another player to paint all their stuff.

Only if you're being forced to play against them.

You're not. If your hobby enjoyment relies on playing against painted armies, then don't play people with unpainted armies. Their army being unpainted has zero impact on your hobby.

It sucks when you get all your guys painted, get them on a table to battle in a dark fantasy or sci fi setting, and then see that they aren't actually fighting other people from that setting, but rather grey blob men. You put in the work in the hopes that you better the experience of your opponent. It isn't ridiculous to expect the same.

Except, as others have pointed out, where do you draw the line there?

Is fighting against unpainted grey miniatures more immersion-destroying that playing against badly-painted miniatures that have no details left due to having 7 layers of housepaint on them? Does it completely destroy the atmosphere if your opponent's Tactical squad doesn't have shoulder pad markings? Or if they're on crooked?

What if my enjoyment of the hobby requires us to spend 3 hours before the game praying to the God Emperor and painting our toenails with crushed up snails? I put in all that work catching all those damn snails, and now you say you don't want to? How the hell am I supposed to enjoy my game? Why won't everybody else just think of me?


Or, you know, just don't play people you don't want to play.

EddieJA wrote:
By that logic, you could make the argument that people that refuse to paint their armies are hurting other people's hobby experience just as much as we would be by demanding another player to paint all their stuff. It sucks when you get all your guys painted, get them on a table to battle in a dark fantasy or sci fi setting, and then see that they aren't actually fighting other people from that setting, but rather grey blob men.

Try replacing your references to painting with references to being very fluffy or making lots of conversions or writing back-story or simply not playing well.

Notice how odd those "demands" sound.
Realize that that is exactly how "demands" of painting sound to some of us.

Also keep in mind that those models you opponent indeed have painted might not really fit into your vision of dark fantasy or sci fi.
These don't ruin your immersion in the "dark sci fi" as they are painted, right?

Steelmage99 wrote:

I have to admit, I actually rather like this one. I now feel the need to find out if there's a matching army... or, herd.

Steelmage99 wrote:

EddieJA wrote:
By that logic, you could make the argument that people that refuse to paint their armies are hurting other people's hobby experience just as much as we would be by demanding another player to paint all their stuff. It sucks when you get all your guys painted, get them on a table to battle in a dark fantasy or sci fi setting, and then see that they aren't actually fighting other people from that setting, but rather grey blob men.

Try replacing your references to painting with references to being very fluffy or making lots of conversions or writing back-story or simply not playing well.

Notice how odd those "demands" sound.
Realize that that is exactly how "demands" of painting sound to some of us.

Also keep in mind that those models you opponent indeed have painted might not really fit into your vision of dark fantasy or sci fi.
These don't ruin your immersion in the "dark sci fi" as they are painted, right?

Spoiler:

That's a pretty textbook slippery slope fallacy. Admitting that you like painted armies because they help in the immersion doesn't automatically mean you want those painted armies to have Hello Kitty heads. It's totally unrelated, and the majority of painted armies don't have Hello Kitty Heads.

And sure, to everyone else, it's not a perfect analogy. And yes, obviously, if I didn't want to play games against people with painted armies, I wouldn't. However, when I do play against someone with an unpainted army, I'm making a sacrifice and putting their happiness and hobby preferences above my own, and yet, we are in no way allowed to expect that people who hate painting don't ever have to think about us for a change?

To be honest, while playing unpainted armies does suck a little, I've no objection to it. A mate of mine is so busy these days, that it's a struggle for him to get anything done paint wise.

EddieJA wrote:

And sure, to everyone else, it's not a perfect analogy. And yes, obviously, if I didn't want to play games against people with painted armies, I wouldn't. However, when I do play against someone with an unpainted army, I'm making a sacrifice and putting their happiness and hobby preferences above my own, and yet, we are in no way allowed to expect that people who hate painting don't ever have to think about us for a change?

Unless you run into people that demand that you refrain from painting your models and thinks less of you if you do, the comparison doesn't really fly.

There is plenty room for both of you. You can both paint your models to your heart's content, and nobody is making demands of the other.

What I tried to illustrate was the unreasonableness of making those kinds of demands.
Suppose I felt that your game-play was below my expectations, and I therefore felt that the game was less fun for me. This let to me bringing the subject up on Dakka.
Would you consider that reasonable, or would you use another word to describe my behaviour?

Everyone's jumping to OP's friend's defence with some fairly presumptuous arguments. Yes painting is time consuming, but so is buying, building and learning to play 5 armies. I think they could have gotten a base coat and dip in there somewhere.

OP's not asking for GD winning armies to play against. They're asking for their friend to participate in wargaming and paint their models. It's really the bare minimum.