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What do you think GW could end up adding to the Bretonnians if/when they are re-done? I don't know much about their fluff, but from what I understand the current meta is big monster sized things. Do they have anything along those lines? Are they any other kind of unit that could be added? A unit of Paladins? What do you all think?

Full plate armour.

 grendel083 wrote:
Full plate armour.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^

It is silly they dont have that

A better way to deal with all this magical fast cavalry nonsense. I saw two players playing with one vastly more experienced which lost because he had no way to take down the stupid warlocks.

Not really no
Full Plate armor is very late Middle Ages (mostly XV-XVI century) aka The Empire
Bretonnia is more Crusades-era (XI-XIII), which would feature Heavy armour only (reinforced heavy chainmail)

The change in Europe is around the middle of the Hundred Years War, where technology and military organization went through several leaps. The parallel is obvious between Bretonnia (Feudal, pre gunpowder) and Empire (centralized, heavier armor, artillery)

Keep in mind that Full Plate is also a way of taking into account Plate barding instead of Cloth barding


What Bretonnia needs is:
-a few more units (Monstrous Cav + heavy infantry + big kit ?)
-internal rebalance (turning crap into good choices, nothing is OP except Trebuchet)
-give something to help prevent "rubber lance" syndrome
-more flexible army list (no 0-1 / 1+) and more Lores for everyone (Light/Fire + specific ?)
-Virtues paid from a separate pool than magic items (like Vampiric / Gifts)

I think that would go a long way to make the army more in line with the others without changing too many things

Demigryphon riders.

Never understood why those came out for the Empire but not Bretonnia.

Is there anything in the fluff that stands out as something that could/should be added? Also do they have anything that would fall into the monstrous category. A bunch of knights, peasants, and ladies doesn't exactly scream monsters.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Demigryphon riders.

Never understood why those came out for the Empire but not Bretonnia.

Because they were released only two years ago.

Plus, the Gryphon is the Empire's "thing".

They definitely need some more cavalry.

Given how knight-centric Bretonnia is, I wouldn't mind giving their knights a rule that allows them to disengage following a charge, of course with the chance that some knights might be dragged down in the attempt. Assuming WHFB is still firmly rooted in the idea of 50-model hordes (been a while since I've played), allowing the much fewer-in-number knights to avoid being stuck in combat until they fail morale and break from combat res would give them a bit of boost.

Perhaps have it work similarly to how Hit & Run works (or worked, I only have up to 6th edition) in 40k, so everyone fights, and the knights attempt to disengage after combat resolution but before any tests are made. Knights in the first rank take an in initiative test, as do any enemy models they're in direct base contact with. If the knight rolls higher, he can disengage, if any rolls are tied, he takes an armour save for each tied roll before escaping (assuming he survived), and if any enemy rolls higher then he's removed as a casualty as the quicker enemy drags him down as he attempts to flee.

Any knights in ranks beyond the first, assuming they're not in contact with an enemy model, automatically disengage along with surviving knights from the first rank.

This way it allows knights with lances to get their attacks off, but doesn't bog them down in a melee they will never be able to win. An initiative test is also fairly fair, since errants and realm knights are I3, the same as most line infantry; questing knights at I4 have an easier time of escaping, and I5 grail knights get it even easier. If too many knights would get dragged down, perhaps have an upgrade available on a unit command model like "Signal Disengage", which gives models in the unit +1 to their initiative for the purposes of disengaging from the fact that they're more prepared for it.

Giving Bretonnian Knights an impact hit each wouldn't go amiss, either.

Of course, having them lose the impact hits, and perhaps the ability to disengage, if charging the front of spears and halberds that remained stationary during their last turn would give them a solid counter. I've always been a fan of giving spears and halberds ASF against cavalry, but I guess this works too.

I wouldn't mind allowing Knights to dismount, either. What with any non-open terrain forcing dangerous checks against cavalry, allowing the knights to dismount and lead their horses (with the exception that they cannot march whilst doing so) through it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Getting access to dismounted knights is something I'd like to see, too. Units of knights whose mounts are injured, dead, or are otherwise unable to be mounted. Currently Brets get men-at-arms as their infantry, and nothing more. HE get Hoeth Swordsmen, WoC get GW warriors (AFAIK they still do, anyway), Empire get Greatswords, but Brets are stuck with S4 Halberds as their strongest infantry. Having dismounted knights with access to great weapons would ease the reliance on their cavalry to do ALL the damage, and having units of men-at-arms pin an enemy down so that nobles can come swinging through the rear with great weapons suits Bretonnians down to the ground; the peasantry are expendable, and once again the nobility comes blazing through to save them from certain death.


I might have been playing too much Medieval 2: Total War...

Maybe something like a dragon or wyvern but not one that's been tamed, one that's been defeated by a paladin, chained up by peasants/pilgrims and poked in the direction of the enemy...

Failing that the Knights of Ni with deployable magical shrubberies

I like the dragon idea. Combines my two favorite fantasy icons - knights and dragons.

Wouldn't they be the Knights who say eckyeckyeckyecky now?

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Demigryphon riders.

Never understood why those came out for the Empire but not Bretonnia.

Because they were released only two years ago.

Plus, the Gryphon is the Empire's "thing".

Louencour is mounted on a Hippogriffon.

Prior to the Demigryphon becoming a mount for Theodore Bruckner courtesy of Forge World, Bretonnia was the only one of the human nations that we knew of which used a magical creature as a mount.
Remember those Pegasus Knights?

Tomb Kings have the war kitty, it is only right that the Bretonnians get to ride into battle on the back of a massive rabbit.

But they should get some kind of dismounted knight. Knights fought on foot in the middle ages, it is only fair they do so now.

 welshhoppo wrote:

But they should get some kind of dismounted knight. Knights fought on foot in the middle ages, it is only fair they do so now.

I don't know brettonia very well at all (never seen them in my area) but its pretty surprising that they don't already have some knights on foot with great weapons or with sword and shield. Would be quite fitting and they could make some nice models out of them!

Enslaved dragon mount, lore of the Lake. Dark Graal virtue.

Some things I think they should do (but probably won't) include:
Making the ward save from the blessing a 5+ to all attacks
give the prophetess an option to take a Unicorn mount
infantry knights, allowing them to garrison buildings effectively
a unit of archers with skirmishers and scouts rules
their own unique lore


They do have a monstrous cavalry unit in the Pegasus Knights, though as flyers they are more loose then other units

As for a monster unit I have the idea of a giant bull monster called the Giant Auroch. It basically a big stupid cow controlled by peasants, kind of like how the dark elves control their monsters, mostly useful on the charge.

 KingGarland wrote:
Some things I think they should do (but probably won't) include:
Making the ward save from the blessing a 5+ to all attacks
give the prophetess an option to take a Unicorn mount
infantry knights, allowing them to garrison buildings effectively
a unit of archers with skirmishers and scouts rules
their own unique lore


They do have a monstrous cavalry unit in the Pegasus Knights, though as flyers they are more loose then other units

As for a monster unit I have the idea of a giant bull monster called the Giant Auroch. It basically a big stupid cow controlled by peasants, kind of like how the dark elves control their monsters, mostly useful on the charge.

1. Absolutely not as that's just taking a giant **** all over DoC's special rule, which HE's already do now anyways...
A basic 6++ save vs. all attacks would be fine.

2. 100% yes.

3. I'd rather see it kept to just the Virtue for foot-characters. However, remove the gakkiness of having to pay double pts for duplicate Virtues.

4. Bring back Bertrand GW!!!

5. Their own lore for sure, who's Sig spell can be a buff to knightly units' Blessing ward save. Basic version to boost it to a 5++, and the boosted version can either give it an AoE, or else boost the save to 4++ at a steep casting cost. (like 15 or 16+ to-cast to give a unit the 4++, because unit-wide 4++ saves are godly!)


Also, I'd like to see the following;
1. Spiritual unit/s
Instead of a unit of 'foot knights' for a more elite infantry unit, a shade-type unit of long dead knights/Apparitions of the Lady!
Could also be a good way to give the Brets a MI type unit if they want, perhaps to introduce something like a bog or mist monsters which protect the lakes & sights that are sacred to the Lady.

2. Beef up the Peg Knights a bit. Right now they're now one of the weaker MC units.

3. Grail Reliquary gets the large kit treatment!

4. Bolt Thrower as a secondary war machine. Empire gets it's gun powered wonder weapons, the Brets could do with a cheap basic Bolt Thrower to add alongside the Trebs.

I would had the following boost to existing units:

Knight errant with WS 4
Knight of the realm with IN 4
Pegasus Knight with IN 4
Grail Knights with END 4
Men-at-arms with WS 3 and LD 7
Maybe give combat capacity to damsels and prophetess (haven't thought about the detail, but liked the idea probably something like WS 5 ATT2 STR 4 END 3, prophetess would have one more life and one more LD)

I would add the following units:

Crusaders (knights on foot with heavy armor and SnS option for greatswords and stats line of Questing knights minus the vow). (special choice)

Peasent leavy (humen equivalent of skaven slaves with spears) (core)

Outlaws (skirmishing archers with light armor, two hand weapons WS 3 BS 4 LD 8 but no peasent vow, they are outlaws after all!) (special choice)

Mogonel (a small catapult very popular in the 12th century, it would act like a bolt thrower) (special choice)

A captured dragon manned by grail pilgrimes (rare choice) (thanks to Bottle for the idea!)

Had the following equipment:

Bretonnian bastard sword (mandatory on Questing knight, optionnal on the other (mounted only) it gives +1 in strengh and need one hand)

crossbows (outlaws only)

free light armor on Yeoman (keep the light cavalry status)

barding on pegasus and hyppogryph

heavy armor and shields to prophetess and damsel (possibly)

reduce the number of magic items with the possible exception of banners.

adjust the points in consequence.

As for a monster, id say not a monster but a siege tower. Like a screaming bell a unit could push it into battle and it could bave hot oil upgrade / serve as a character mount.

They're going to be combined with empire. Not in a direct all one army way, but they'll be the elite mounted force alongside hordes of militia and statesmen

They are such a boring army and lore. All you can add is knight on horse knight carried by man/men. Peasents with I don't know... a stick? lol Just should make them be wiped out by empire .

Empire gets all brets models knights and then move on.

Here is the back ground
Brets losing to wild animals again so ask for the Empire to come help. Empire comes help but them become part of the Empire and now brets stuff goes to empire. We all win and the lame are left to die.

it would be nice if they got some more viable foot units.

Have peasant levies,
Men at arms (actually make them how they were which were trained professional soldiers)
dismounted knight units
options for both bows and cross bows.

Also give them a MC knight unit

Also give the knights with lance formation the ability to fight in all ranks and give them an equivalent to ogre charge, to make them the hardest hitting cav. - This should give them enough punch to break the unit. Or because of steadfast give the brets a rule which overrides it and forces a unit to check its leadership with modifiers applied

How I would change up the Brets:

- Army wide rule = Devastating Charge.
- Lance Formation = current formation, unit fights in 3 ranks
- Blessing of the Lady = all units with Knight's Vow/Questing Vow have a 6+ ward save vs.S4+ attacks.
- Scions of the Lady = Grail Vow units have a 5+ ward save vs.S4+ attacks.
- Bret specific magic lore can work to help slightly buff these innate ward saves as well, though likely cap them at 5++.

- Characters get a separate allowance for both Magic Items & Knightly Vows. (though keep Heroes limited to the 25-30pts and under vows)
- No more obnoxious doubling-up on taking multiple like-vows in the same army.
- Prophetess of the Lady gets Unicorn mount option.
- Prophetess can take Lore of the Lady, Heavens, Light, Life or Beasts. Damsels can take Lore of the Lady, Light, Life or Beasts.
- Bret specific magic lore - Lore of the Lady, similar in style & use to the old Albion lore from waaaaaay back. (ie: a mix of Shadow style Hexes, a couple Beast-like missile/DD + a Life styled buff or two)
- New Hero - Robber Baron/Outcast Noble! Kind of like a Bret version of the SW's Lone Wolf unit! Give him the option to take a 'hunting pack' of 0-2 War Mastiffs for extra fun!

- Core = Errant Knights, Knights of the Realm, Mounted Yeomen, Archer Levies, Peasant Militia.
- Special = Questing Knights, Peg Knights, Battle Pilgrims & Grail Reliquary, Brigands (skirmisher unit), Men-at-Arms (w/option for heavy armour), Ghostly Apparitions (Ethereal Swarm type unit)
- Rare = Grail Knights, (2W unit of 3-6 'super knights'), Treb, Bolt Thrower (both can take upgrade for Flaming Attacks), Myst Sentinels (knightly looking bog monsters!), Living Saint.


Just my wishlisting!

OgreChubbs wrote:
They are such a boring army and lore. All you can add is knight on horse knight carried by man/men. Peasents with I don't know... a stick? lol Just should make them be wiped out by empire .

Empire gets all brets models knights and then move on.

Here is the back ground
Brets losing to wild animals again so ask for the Empire to come help. Empire comes help but them become part of the Empire and now brets stuff goes to empire. We all win and the lame are left to die.

So you are calling all Bretonnian players lame? Yeah....no
I know this is a Troll post but this is just insulting on a whole new level.

It isnt like they are Black Templars that already share models with SM. They have unique lore, beutifull models, and a theme that no other army can fully represent.

Hm... what do the Brettonians need in a game of giant monsters..?

More Hippogryphs. Heraldic Lions. Dogs to support the Knights, kind of like Empire Detachments.

Hunting Hounds would be pretty cool actually. They're fast, but not very damaging, inflict a penalty to Fleeing, and automatically move to Flank the target if a Knight unit charges the same facing that the Hounds are already on.

I would love to see a new warmachine multi kit, knights with sword and shield on foot, and hopefully a devastating charge rule that can cause impact hits. hopefully they keep the lance formation rule, and the vows, but have the vow come from a separate points pool than the magic items. access to different lores would be good. a change to the questing knights would be good, right now I don't see a reason on taking them even though they have great weapons, and a new grail relique model would be cool and it needs new rule, I love the fluff for this unit but the rules need a change.

I could see them going to way of the massive chariot by making a kit that will let you make either a grail reliquary or maybe a grail shrine (one the body of a knight the other the body of a damsel?) pulled by either grail knights or grail pilgrims.

Given the fluff I seriously doubt that the Bretonnians would ever have a dragon or any similar beast but they could do something more with a horse like creature such as a hippocampus (good luck justifying that).

If they did do some kind of monster I could see them doing something like the questing beast, maybe have it be a rare animal sacred to the Lady of The Lake that protects her holy places.

Unicorn Cavalry.

Probably a couple more characters including Gilles Le Breton, I think it'd be great if they made a peasant character. Something like Robin Hood!

I do really like the idea of a spirit type unit, maybe have something to do with the Wood Elves!

Female Knights on Unicorn cavalry.

A large wooden Rabbit.......