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2014/10/19 06:11:52
Subject: Re:Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
Dropbear Victim wrote: Another model I just noticed on the removal list is what I think is the "flasher" moira SCCW + MR I was eyeing off. :(
Only as an individual blister. It's being discontinued because it's also in the Bakunin starter, and they're in the process of removing anything as a blister that's also in a box.
2014/10/19 10:17:20
Subject: Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
-Loki- wrote:And it's really a shame that they're happy to simply drop them rather than actually figure out what they did wrong and try to fix it.
My impression from talking to CB staff at assorted times is that nobody at CB is 'happy' to simply drop them but that it was seen as the lesser of several evils.
Rusty Trombone wrote:Yeah, an online only set of profiles would be nice. It wouldn't cost them money or goodwill, either. Win/win!
Loki has touched on this briefly, but I'm not sure what it 'solves'.
They wouldn't be usable in an ITS event (I can go into detail on the balance issues if you'd like, which would most assuredly cost time/money to fix),
Outside of an ITS event, anyone who would be prepared to play against 'casual' profiles is also likely to be happy playing against the 'existing' 2nd edition profiles
2014/10/19 12:56:55
Subject: Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
I doubt that would even be the case, given how much the rules in N3 are changing...
I think my best hope is that the Combined Army get something new that the Caskuda can be used as - something better than the stuff that is currently being thought of as a decent proxy source (Raicho and Avatar).
2014/10/19 22:35:24
Subject: Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
IJW wrote: Outside of an ITS event, anyone who would be prepared to play against 'casual' profiles is also likely to be happy playing against the 'existing' 2nd edition profiles
That's quite a leap. The points values would be balanced for second edition still, as well as needing to work together potentially on rules interpretations. Particularly the Exrah rule which won't exist anymore. Also, casual pick up games that aren't ITS prep don't necessarily mean the opponent is prepared to 'homebrew' anything.
A legal set of non-ITS valid rules means there will be zero interpretation required of old rules, they will be balanced for the new ruleset including points values, and zero reason to refuse their use unless it's specifically agreed to use ITS rules. It just removes any ambiguity.
2014/10/19 23:04:31
Subject: Re:Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
I will download and print a second edition army list which features a Caskuda. People will play me. They will play me, or I won't let them play on my terrain and reference my rulebooks
Pacific wrote: I will download and print a second edition army list which features a Caskuda. People will play me. They will play me, or I won't let them play on my terrain and reference my rulebooks
I've already printed a list from the army builder with all the profiles, but your post has just reminded me .. i forgot the Caskuda! And there's nothing like a bit of blackmail for getting some games!
Pacific, with your stunning terrain you could print off a list with Tom Bombadil, a Death Star and the cast of 3rd Rock from the Sun and people would still play you!
Casey's Law wrote: Pacific, with your stunning terrain you could print off a list with Tom Bombadil, a Death Star and the cast of 3rd Rock from the Sun and people would still play you!
Haha, thanks mate. Now to start thinking of some special rules for Harry, and I'm guessing Sally would be some kind of HI..
So.. prevailing thought now is that the new 'something secret will be revealed 31st October!' message is actually about the Exrah being squatted?
Although with the cover being Ariadna it makes me think not (unless it was some kind of 'Tremors' situation where the Exrah attacked Ariadna and got wiped out? "You picked the wrong house to break into!" )
-Loki- wrote: That's quite a leap. The points values would be balanced for second edition still, as well as needing to work together potentially on rules interpretations. Particularly the Exrah rule which won't exist anymore. Also, casual pick up games that aren't ITS prep don't necessarily mean the opponent is prepared to 'homebrew' anything.
A legal set of non-ITS valid rules means there will be zero interpretation required of old rules, they will be balanced for the new ruleset including points values, and zero reason to refuse their use unless it's specifically agreed to use ITS rules. It just removes any ambiguity.
A set of profiles that 'wouldn't cost them money or goodwill' by definition wouldn't have been playtested for N3. There are severe game balance issues for the Vector and Caskuda that would need to be looked at from from scratch, which I'm pretty sure is a contributing factor to Exrah getting dropped, on top of the slow model sales.
2014/10/20 09:04:13
Subject: Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
Personally I prefer to think Exrah are being reassigned to Tohaa because of genetic engineering storyline. I wouldn't be surprised if they confirmed Antipode engineering too. That could just be wishful thinking though.
Even if it turned out that I'm correct then I wonder how they are going to deliver this information? As has been said, if it was N3 they wouldn't be telling us now. Dire Foes? Book? Comic?
Just had an idea. The save the caskuda banner would make great graffiti on terrain walls. If I had any terrain made I'd do it but I don't so I'll just leave the idea here. Maybe one of you guys will use the idea.
2014/10/20 11:49:32
Subject: Re:Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
Dropbear Victim wrote: Just had an idea. The save the caskuda banner would make great graffiti on terrain walls. If I had any terrain made I'd do it but I don't so I'll just leave the idea here. Maybe one of you guys will use the idea.
I love that idea!
Obviously, I don't think we'll be able to save the Caskuda, but he will live on as graffiti on my Infinity terrain and, of course, as a paperweight on my desk.
2014/10/20 11:59:22
Subject: Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
-Loki- wrote: That's quite a leap. The points values would be balanced for second edition still, as well as needing to work together potentially on rules interpretations. Particularly the Exrah rule which won't exist anymore. Also, casual pick up games that aren't ITS prep don't necessarily mean the opponent is prepared to 'homebrew' anything.
A legal set of non-ITS valid rules means there will be zero interpretation required of old rules, they will be balanced for the new ruleset including points values, and zero reason to refuse their use unless it's specifically agreed to use ITS rules. It just removes any ambiguity.
A set of profiles that 'wouldn't cost them money or goodwill' by definition wouldn't have been playtested for N3. There are severe game balance issues for the Vector and Caskuda that would need to be looked at from from scratch, which I'm pretty sure is a contributing factor to Exrah getting dropped, on top of the slow model sales.
I said exactly this last page. And why it probably won't ever happen.
Saying people should just use N2's rules misses the point - a lot of people play pick up games, and N2 profiles that both players need to agree on not only on use, but rules interpretations, is going to have less chance of getting used than Mercenaries do with legal profiles.
This goes a bit beyond Ko Dali. This removed 4 whole units, with multiple profiles each, and one of the most expensive models they sell, which people paid good money for. it's understandable that people are bitter. I don't think some non-ITS legal rules is asking too much as a good will gesture. Saying 'we'll totally explain why we removed them from the game' doesn't do much to make it easier to swallow.
2014/10/21 02:00:15
Subject: Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
-Loki- wrote: That's quite a leap. The points values would be balanced for second edition still, as well as needing to work together potentially on rules interpretations. Particularly the Exrah rule which won't exist anymore. Also, casual pick up games that aren't ITS prep don't necessarily mean the opponent is prepared to 'homebrew' anything.
A legal set of non-ITS valid rules means there will be zero interpretation required of old rules, they will be balanced for the new ruleset including points values, and zero reason to refuse their use unless it's specifically agreed to use ITS rules. It just removes any ambiguity.
A set of profiles that 'wouldn't cost them money or goodwill' by definition wouldn't have been playtested for N3. There are severe game balance issues for the Vector and Caskuda that would need to be looked at from from scratch, which I'm pretty sure is a contributing factor to Exrah getting dropped, on top of the slow model sales.
I said exactly this last page. And why it probably won't ever happen.
Saying people should just use N2's rules misses the point - a lot of people play pick up games, and N2 profiles that both players need to agree on not only on use, but rules interpretations, is going to have less chance of getting used than Mercenaries do with legal profiles.
This goes a bit beyond Ko Dali. This removed 4 whole units, with multiple profiles each, and one of the most expensive models they sell, which people paid good money for. it's understandable that people are bitter. I don't think some non-ITS legal rules is asking too much as a good will gesture. Saying 'we'll totally explain why we removed them from the game' doesn't do much to make it easier to swallow.
I think you're pretending that the reaction to "We're removing the Exrah from the game, but here are the profiles you would have been able to use if we hadn't removed them" would have been better somehow.
That would change the shouting to "If you spent all of the effort on these new profiles, why don't we get to use them in ITS?" and "If you spent all of this effort, why did you discontinue the models? Why do you hate new Combined players enough to put them at a disadvantage?" or "Why do you hate veteran players so much?" if the profiles weren't as good as they used to be. Or worse, if the "unofficial" profile ended up overpowered, and became an object lesson in "And that's why you should never play with unofficial models..."
The situation for CB with the discontinued models is: Damned if you do and damned if you don't. And I know I'm doing my small share of cursing over the matter, out of inertia if nothing else. Striking the models from the game is the brutal, but clean way to deal with the situation.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/21 02:04:31
2014/10/21 02:38:36
Subject: Going the EXTRA mile for EXRAH - Help needed!
Casey's Law wrote:We should do another Dakka Painting Contest in it's honour.
Exrah, Exrah, Squat All About It!
Too soon?
No, not at all!
I love it!
We should absolutely do this, even on an unofficial level, right here in River City the INFINITY forum if we have to!
Hmmm, I was joking but it actually would be a nice send off. I think we'd definitely have to go unofficial but I'd be happy to run it like the previous Dakka challenges but on a small scale. Do we even need a prize if it's just a bit of fun? Well, colour me interested. Pm me if you'd rather.
I think the paint comp/ vow thing would be a good idea and it would give me an excuse to finish painting my remaining Exrah (some of them haven't even been on the table yet ).
Casey's Law wrote: Well I have added a Caskuda to the insidious order I am placing with Shae.
Hell yeah!
Fight the power!
I am looking forward to the FAREWELL TO EXRAH (EXRAH STAGE LEFT!) Painting Bootleg Unofficial Competiton/Vow!
Glad to see its already got a catchy title!
You're right that is far too catchy. How about:
Exrah, Exrah, farewell to Exrah! A.K.A. Exrah Stage Left! OR Exrah Vision - Seeing the End of the Road [A Painting, Modelling, Corvus Belli, Infinity the Game, Bootleg, Miniature, Unofficial, Just For Fun, Competition, Challenge, Vow on Dakka Dakka] #savethecaskuda #emotional #theymightevenbecomingback
Is that a bit clearer?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/21 21:15:22
And there's nothing like a bit of blackmail for getting some games! 
).