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Hi dakkanians,

I usually Never Field More then 1 Wave serpent but instead try to Build some cool lists.
I always loved the harlequin Models and look for a Way to use them in my Army.
But they just seem to dont fit... 90 points for a non upgraded 5 man Unit... If you buff em up they quickly Stack up High in points cost.
The melta pistols seem to be ok... Harrys Kiss give em rending.. Usually they should have 3 attacks strength 4 on the charge hitting most enemies on 3+ and Hit First...
Death jester is just useless Even if i Love the Model.
Psyker Guy is important.. But most difficult part.. They are freaking fragile(5+) and have to footslog..

Any Way to make em viable?

Shadow seer is your best bet. Makes them hard to kill at long range.

I had a lot of fun playing with them when I had the last DE codex, but since they were removed( I believe) I don't really use them. They Cost a lot of points just to make them a decent unit, I'm not sure if they aren't allowed to put them in transports, but I think most transports are in fast attack( raider & venom). So you could do that.

With the new DE dex you could ally in some DE into your eldar, this would give you access to either wwp (so no scatter ds) through the archon, or you could take a raider/venom as a dedicated transport that you can assault out of. This helps deal with how frail they are. The venom and raider can also both ds, so you have the choice of either reserving or starting on the board.

They are a unit that pack quite a nasty CC punch, but within just the eldar dex they suffer from lack of transport that they can assault from, as you'd spend a turn standing about.

I love them too, but they aren't competetive, too fragile for a 22pt model.

If you want to use them you need to protect them form ranged attacks somehow. The Shadowseer is an option, but not very reliable and very expensive.
You could add another model to tank hits for them, like a Farseer on a bike. A bike model won't slow them down.
You could spend points to get enough powers and warp dice to buff them with psychic powers.
You could ally with Dark Eldar and put them in a Venom or Raider, this could be a reasonable option to make them playable.

 Nivoglibina wrote:
I love them too, but they aren't competetive, too fragile for a 22pt model.

If you want to use them you need to protect them form ranged attacks somehow. The Shadowseer is an option, but not very reliable and very expensive.
You could add another model to tank hits for them, like a Farseer on a bike. A bike model won't slow them down.
You could spend points to get enough powers and warp dice to buff them with psychic powers.
You could ally with Dark Eldar and put them in a Venom or Raider, this could be a reasonable option to make them playable.

Unit(s) of 5 with kisses for everyone. Only 110 points. Pair with 2 units of 4 incubi @ 90 points each (includes klaive) and transports for everyone (55 - 70 pts each).
It's a fairly effective CC threat. Incubi can deal with the 2+/3+ guys that Harlies don't like to tangle with, harlies hit the high toughness targets that Incubi don't like.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Nivoglibina wrote:
I love them too, but they aren't competetive, too fragile for a 22pt model.

If you want to use them you need to protect them form ranged attacks somehow. The Shadowseer is an option, but not very reliable and very expensive.
You could add another model to tank hits for them, like a Farseer on a bike. A bike model won't slow them down.
You could spend points to get enough powers and warp dice to buff them with psychic powers.
You could ally with Dark Eldar and put them in a Venom or Raider, this could be a reasonable option to make them playable.

Unit(s) of 5 with kisses for everyone. Only 110 points. Pair with 2 units of 4 incubi @ 90 points each (includes klaive) and transports for everyone (55 - 70 pts each).
It's a fairly effective CC threat. Incubi can deal with the 2+/3+ guys that Harlies don't like to tangle with, harlies hit the high toughness targets that Incubi don't like.

Harlies with kisses actually shred 2+/3+ guys as well. With so many attacks on the charge, you end up with a decent amount of rends.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Nivoglibina wrote:
I love them too, but they aren't competetive, too fragile for a 22pt model.

If you want to use them you need to protect them form ranged attacks somehow. The Shadowseer is an option, but not very reliable and very expensive.
You could add another model to tank hits for them, like a Farseer on a bike. A bike model won't slow them down.
You could spend points to get enough powers and warp dice to buff them with psychic powers.
You could ally with Dark Eldar and put them in a Venom or Raider, this could be a reasonable option to make them playable.

Unit(s) of 5 with kisses for everyone. Only 110 points. Pair with 2 units of 4 incubi @ 90 points each (includes klaive) and transports for everyone (55 - 70 pts each).
It's a fairly effective CC threat. Incubi can deal with the 2+/3+ guys that Harlies don't like to tangle with, harlies hit the high toughness targets that Incubi don't like.

Biggest difference is grenades. Harlies have access to grenades, Incubi don't.

But still, I agree that allying in DE is about the only way to field them. At that point, you may as well just make them grotesques, or Reavers.

8 Harlies + Shadowseer (grenades)+ Troupmaster = 262 points -> 40 S4 rending attacks on charge

5 Grotesques + Liquifier guns = 250 -> 25 poison 4+ attacks on the charge

12 Reavers + 4 Caltrops = 252 -> 8 S4 rending HoW attacks, 4 D6 S6 HoW (average 14) attacks on charge = 22 Rending attacks at I10 +36 S3 attacks at I5.

Against most targets, the dmg output will be similar in all cases, but the durability of grots and reavers is much higher (T4/5 + FnP, and 3+jink for reavers).

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Nivoglibina wrote:
I love them too, but they aren't competetive, too fragile for a 22pt model.

If you want to use them you need to protect them form ranged attacks somehow. The Shadowseer is an option, but not very reliable and very expensive.
You could add another model to tank hits for them, like a Farseer on a bike. A bike model won't slow them down.
You could spend points to get enough powers and warp dice to buff them with psychic powers.
You could ally with Dark Eldar and put them in a Venom or Raider, this could be a reasonable option to make them playable.

Unit(s) of 5 with kisses for everyone. Only 110 points. Pair with 2 units of 4 incubi @ 90 points each (includes klaive) and transports for everyone (55 - 70 pts each).
It's a fairly effective CC threat. Incubi can deal with the 2+/3+ guys that Harlies don't like to tangle with, harlies hit the high toughness targets that Incubi don't like.

Harlies with kisses actually shred 2+/3+ guys as well. With so many attacks on the charge, you end up with a decent amount of rends.

4 attacks each on the charge, hitting on 3's at best, 6's to rend; 2.2 rending hits, 4.44 normal wounding hits vs T4.
Harliquins: Against marines,it's 3-4 kills, against terminators, it's ~2 kills.
Incubi are averaging 5 wounds vs power armor, 3-4 vs terminators.
Harliquins drop off to 2 kills when not charging marines, and 1-2 vs terminators.
Incubi drop off to 3-4 vs marines when not charging, and 2-3 vs terminators.

Keep in mind, that unit of 4 Incubi is 20 points cheaper, you'd need another 2 Harliquins or so to even it out, and and that point, they're 50% more expensive than the incubi.
Both are decent, but Incubi are the 3+/2+ specialists. Dark Eldar are an MSU army, Harliquins can work in that framework.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Nivoglibina wrote:
I love them too, but they aren't competetive, too fragile for a 22pt model.

If you want to use them you need to protect them form ranged attacks somehow. The Shadowseer is an option, but not very reliable and very expensive.
You could add another model to tank hits for them, like a Farseer on a bike. A bike model won't slow them down.
You could spend points to get enough powers and warp dice to buff them with psychic powers.
You could ally with Dark Eldar and put them in a Venom or Raider, this could be a reasonable option to make them playable.

Unit(s) of 5 with kisses for everyone. Only 110 points. Pair with 2 units of 4 incubi @ 90 points each (includes klaive) and transports for everyone (55 - 70 pts each).
It's a fairly effective CC threat. Incubi can deal with the 2+/3+ guys that Harlies don't like to tangle with, harlies hit the high toughness targets that Incubi don't like.

Harlies with kisses actually shred 2+/3+ guys as well. With so many attacks on the charge, you end up with a decent amount of rends.

4 attacks each on the charge, hitting on 3's at best, 6's to rend; 2.2 rending hits, 4.44 normal wounding hits vs T4.
Harliquins: Against marines,it's 3-4 kills, against terminators, it's ~2 kills.
Incubi are averaging 5 wounds vs power armor, 3-4 vs terminators.
Harliquins drop off to 2 kills when not charging marines, and 1-2 vs terminators.
Incubi drop off to 3-4 vs marines when not charging, and 2-3 vs terminators.

Keep in mind, that unit of 4 Incubi is 20 points cheaper, you'd need another 2 Harliquins or so to even it out, and and that point, they're 50% more expensive than the incubi.
Both are decent, but Incubi are the 3+/2+ specialists. Dark Eldar are an MSU army, Harliquins can work in that framework.

I wasn't trying to argue that they are more cost effective vs 2+/3+ than Incubi, just that they can reasonably kill those targets if needed.

I recommend looking into the old Harlequin codex made by Gav Thorpe.
It could give your army some pointers.
Take Harlies from the Eldar army as elite,
Mimes to be played as Guardians or DA as troops,
Jetbikes or Shining Spears as Harlie Jetbikers, and
Wraithlords and WK as HS WL Clowns.

Don't go buying an entire Harlequin army quite yet. I am of the opinion that the Harlequins will be getting a Supplement to themselves very soon. Now, this is no rumour, but i have good reasoning.

There are no Harlequins in the Dark Eldar codex. Let that sink in. They have 2 pages of fluff and artwork, and are mentioned often in the codex, usually in the same fluff as Lady Malys, but they are not a usable unit. The only reason i can think of for removing them is that they are getting their own supplement akin to the Assasins of the Grey Knight codex, or Legion of the Damned.

Just something to consider.

Currently im working on a harlie CWE/DE army, what im simply doing is modelling my units in a 'harlie' style, that way I get to play them as the effective units I want to run, but still give them a nice harlie look. However I am running a non-traditional harlie theme with less of the jester look and more of the masked horror feel.

But I recognise you probably dont want to be remodelling a whole army but you could reasonably make a CWE unit look like harlies.

For example this is my DA Exarch:


And this is my farseer; who better represents the 'dark' harlie theme im going for:


Not exactly what you were looking for im sure but plenty of options out there to run harlie looking models.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
The only reason i can think of for removing them is that they are getting their own supplement akin to the Assasins of the Grey Knight codex, or Legion of the Damned.

Circus Comes To Town.

I use harlies as a dynamic unit that can fill many roles in my CWE/DE army. Currently I'm including a unit of 5 with the TM, shadowseer, and two fusion pistols. Depending on the opponents I am able to employ them in one of the following tactics:

Precision Deep Strike in with Archon and WWP to target a high AV vehicle: 2 fusion pistols and 1 haywire grenade. The unit benefits from a 2++ and, potentially, VoS. If they survive the round you have an assault unit in the opponents backfield.

Protect psykers with VoS. This allows my spiritseers to get close to front-line units while still avoiding enemy fire. Alternatively, hold them in the back-field and be immune to barrage sniping.

When expecting outflanking and deep striking opponents, hold back as an assault unit to protect CWE support weapon batteries. Leave the psykers in with the batteries to make them a more tempting target and hopefully the harlies won't get too shot up.

Provide them with either a FA Raider or drop warriors out of a Venom to provide them some speed, depending on how circumstances unfold, and whether there is a target worth dedicating the extra resources towards assaulting.

Also, I find them very flavorful. The TM is my warlord, just because he's a BA and it fits my army's fluff.

Solar Shock wrote:
Currently im working on a harlie CWE/DE army

Looked at your gallery, awesome stuff!