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I probably won't get in on this, but I'm glad to see some love for Heavy Gear

I think there might be a surprise or two for Caprice... Keep eyes on!

Cheers!
Dave

Ammon please!

 DP9Dave wrote:
I think there might be a surprise or two for Caprice... Keep eyes on!

Cheers!
Dave

That's good to hear. I'm curious how the sculpts and parts will look since you're combining so many different models into one. It would be like making a combo cheetah/hunter/jaguar kit.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Can I just say, I am all about healthy skepticism... but coming in neutral, with no experience with any of the parties involved... this thread reads like a mountain of angry, sour grapes on the part of a couple posters, and with DP9Dave coming across as a normal poster, making an effort to share information.

I appreciate that it COULD be all smoke and mirrors, but i've got to say, he's coming across looking reasonable, and making this company/product look pretty good.(...)

You know what ? You're right.
Taking a step back, I realize, that's exactly how it looks for a new comer.
On one side, you have somebody apparently affable and confident, who asks for support and claim a sincere wish for improvement, that the company is finally trying to improve and shed of its bad reputation. On the other side, you have a bunch of bitter haters* that appear intent on taking him and the company down regardless.
(*: "Beware the haters" is the actual warning given by DP9's owner when asking for people to go spread the word on other forums in their KS comment section)

I suppose I could spend some time explaining how DP9 has a long history of broken promises and failed deliveries, that they shouldn't trusted, much less supported, that they make GW looks good, they bath in kitten blood, blablabla... That'd be a waste of time, mine and yours, and there's already 50 pages of it by actual insiders.

What matters are deeds, not words. DP9 claims they're finally trying to get it right this time ? Fine. Time, and their actions, will tell for certain whether they were actually sincere.

 Kalamadea wrote:
Honestly, most people should know what to expect out of DP9 by now, they have a history that's been pretty well established even just in this very thread.

 HudsonD wrote:
I could go on and on, but it'd be pointless.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Can I just say, I am all about healthy skepticism...

 warboss wrote:
I agree that it should probably be best left as said.

By popular request, posts have been shortened - although I could swear there used to be a way to delete them yourself instead of having to report those you wanted gone.

/shrug, No worries.

_
_

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Can I just say, I am all about healthy skepticism... but coming in neutral, with no experience with any of the parties involved... this thread reads like a mountain of angry, sour grapes on the part of a couple posters, and with DP9Dave coming across as a normal poster, making an effort to share information.

I appreciate that it COULD be all smoke and mirrors, but i've got to say, he's coming across looking reasonable, and making this company/product look pretty good.

As value keeps getting added here, i'm thinking this might prove too tempting to pass up. Its a Kickstarter, so I always go in expecting delays and such... but I am also seeing some cool looking renders for a mountain of models that look more interesting to me than that round of Reaper Bones ones which just came and went.

We know we're putting a lot of value in the core set but this is only four of the factions because we're keeping it within the limits of the fulfillment period. We don't want that period to drag on past the scheduled date and we even have hope of fulfilling our obligations earlier than that (but, y'know, reality). We've kept our estimates conservative as a just in case.

Terra Nova also includes the NuCoal and Peace River factions. Then there are the additional colonies of Utopia and Eden and the Terra Novan off-world strike force called the Black Talons (What would happen if the bad asses from the Predator move got mecha and went hunting Earthers). Then there are the unexplored colonies in the setting that we have never seen such as the prison colony of Botney Bay, the mountain canton world of Jotenhein, and the mysterious colony of New Jeruselem (Where whole earth fleets have disappeared!).

So yeah, keep checking it out. I can't make excuses for mistakes made in the past but we have learned from our mistakes will not repeat them again. We've had to play catch up to the new reality in the miniature games markets though this does mean that we've able to be mentored by some friends who have completed kickstarters so we benefit from the experiences of many who went before us. Kickstarters by their nature are a trust relationship and it's through our openness and communication that you will choose to trust us, or not.

Cheers!
Dave

Guys, a mod directed you to stop talking about whatever happened in the past, as it had been well covered. You should have listened to him. Some posts have been removed now

 warboss wrote:

That's good to hear. I'm curious how the sculpts and parts will look since you're combining so many different models into one. It would be like making a combo cheetah/hunter/jaguar kit.

It's funny that the legs of the Caprice models were always designed to be a basic leg shape and then have heavier and heavier armor mounted on them as their roles changed. There are also only two distinct shapes of body and a lot of similarities between the weapons and equipment they were equipped with. The Mount may be a slightly more complicated model than most, but they are more similar than they might appear at first.

As it has been pointed out the process of casting in resin/metal differs from the plastic process so some minor adjustments will have to be made to the design for casting but the look will be the same. And by minor adjustments I mean angles of detail so they can be removed from the molds, not re-design of how the mounts look. The Corporate unanimity of how their security forces look are part of the allure of a Caprician force.

And weirdly enough the first attempt to make a market ready mecha in Japan starts looking rather disturbingly like a Caprician forefather. I know it's really a test but if that is the model T ford of mecha then I think protesters might need some new tactics.

Cheers!
Dave


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And we just broke the $75000 Goal and added two BF2-21 Frames to the core starter set plus opened up the CEF starter army for anyone who wants CEF but doesn't want to go all in for a core starter set.

Thanks for backing!
Cheers!
Dave




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And at least we're not weaponizing kids Like this guy

Having passed $75,000, many Backers wondered how the next couple Stretch Goals would go. Then Dream Pod 9 decided to drop surprise Stretch Goals and Hidden Goals in.

 warboss wrote:

Shouldn't that list also include the 1st and second editions of the RPG since they had the fully functional and independent minis rules as a section in the back of the books? We tried the RPG for a bit but usually ended up playing the minis game only in our group. If so, the edition cycle DP9 has had for the miniatures portion of Heavy Gear is:

Heavy Gear RPG 1st Ed [1995]
Heavy Gear RPG 2nd Ed [1997]
Heavy Gear Tactical [1998]
[Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules (2001)]
[Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules (2005)]
Heavy Gear Blitz [2006]
Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [2008]
Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual [2011]
Heavy Gear Blitz Alpha/Beta/KS edition (2013/2014/2015)

Hm... yes and no. Up until Blitz!, the actual rules changes were quite a bit minimum. Only real change on those was the default damage system on the Tactical rules (similar to Blitz!'s, but even less complicated), where the "full" damage tracking rules from the RPG were optional.

The SilCORE miniature rules had a couple of small changes, but it still was 95% compatible with the previous stuff. Most of the changes between those editions I'd sau were on the "look and feel" category.

So... 9 editions in 20 years...and that is considering the "alpha" and "beta" and "Kickstarter" rules releases as a single evolving conglomerate edition. I knew it was alot but I don't think I've ever seen it listed year by year. I guess it is a good thing I missed the period between 1997 and 2006 specifically because of the 2nd edition RPG flip flop.

Albertorius, when you say you play the older rules, which particular set do you mean?

The core would be 2nd edition tactical rules, most of the time with the full RPG damage rules, but with the simpler ones for larger engagements.

Then I tend to add rules I like from the Tactical Support books, the Duellist book and the SilCORE book. As everything is basically compatible and the stats from all those editions are exactly the same, it is quite easy to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 frozenwastes wrote:

Twelvecarpileup wrote:@DP9Dave

Quick question, which might be a bit of a newbie question...

Is there any plans of a skirmish based version of Heavy Gear? Like 8-9 models instead of units?

Was the original Heavy Gear rules like this? (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/979/Heavy-Gear-Miniature-Rules-2nd-Edition?it=1)

Love the art design/world. It's just that the Blitz rules are pretty much unplayable (sorry).

The 2nd edition miniature rules are excellent, and yes, they'll work great with 8-9 models on the table. When I got Blitz, I too was told that it would be the standard rules for years to come and then they replaced it with a new edition right away and I haven't been back since. I have a couple gaming buddies who have all the 1st and 2nd ed books (both RPG and minaitures) and we play it a couple times a year at cons/club nights and probably should play it more regularly (too many games vying for our attention!).

Yeah, 2nd edition rules are the ones I'm using now, and as the Beta hasn't really addressed any of my problems with the system, I don't expect to be changing that.

 Albertorius wrote:

Yeah, 2nd edition rules are the ones I'm using now, and as the Beta hasn't really addressed any of my problems with the system, I don't expect to be changing that.

The 2nd edition tactical rules work. They aren't some fast play version meant to push up model counts to sell more miniatures. Each gear feels valuable in the game. Blitz and the versions that followed are like 40k and 2nd edition is like Infinity. Less models, more depth.

The cool thing is that they're still available in PDF and in Print on Demand. If anyone is thinking of getting into this KS for the miniatures, you may also want to do yourself a favor and get into 2nd edition too:

http://www.rpgnow.com/browse.php?keywords=heavy+gear+2nd

I'd actually recommend the RPG book rather than the separated miniatures rules. Yeah, it's a few dollars more, but the RPG rules give you a larger context that's quite valuable if you like the world of Terra Nova and still has all the tactical rules (and hexless miniature rules) you might want.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/837/Heavy-Gear-Rulebook-2nd-Edition

To DP9, I say consider giving away a PDF of the old tactical miniature rules as a stretch goal. Right now Classic Battletech is in the middle of a huge revival and you never know what could happen with going a bit old school with Heavy Gear.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I'd actually recommend the RPG book rather than the separated miniatures rules. Yeah, it's a few dollars more, but the RPG rules give you a larger context that's quite valuable if you like the world of Terra Nova and still has all the tactical rules (and hexless miniature rules) you might want.

The tactical miniatures rules book also has pretty interesting stuff, IMHO. Like simplified damage rules in case you want to use them, Skirmish rules with reworked ranges and action stuff, and the fabulous Heavy Gear Toy Combat rules!

I'll sign on for that. We're doing that over at Strange Aeons Kickstarter (IE giving away the old rules/expansions), as it gives gamers something to proxy and muck with during the long wait.

I'd definitely be interested in a 2nd Ed set of rules to play while beta is still in flux.

I did not notice are they sticking with the 15mm sizes?

 Nicorex wrote:
I did not notice are they sticking with the 15mm sizes?

The scale isn't changing this time around. I think 12mm is the correct conversion from their 1/144 or N scale number. It may seem pedantic but some people care about those few mm when making or buying terrain judging from the resistance the DZC sets got from some Robotech pledgers.

Out of curiosity... are there any plans for infantry during the KS? I see some for sale on the website, so I know they're part of the game, but haven't seen any via stretch-goal, etc...

Are infantry a substantial part of this game?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Out of curiosity... are there any plans for infantry during the KS? I see some for sale on the website, so I know they're part of the game, but haven't seen any via stretch-goal, etc...

Are infantry a substantial part of this game?

Good question!

I've been looking for a game in this scale, with mechs, tanks and infantry ever since GW abandoned Space Marine/Titan Legion!

Heavy Gear liked to place combined arm forces on the table specifically because the Heavy Gears are not the most powerful machines on the battlefield. Infantry aren't on the Kickstarter right now, but then neither are the larger heavy tanks, the original light tanks, nor the striders or Gearstriders.

Infantry forces in 2nd edition were often good as a pillbox defense. Stick them inside a building or bunker, arm them with an AGM (Anti-Gear missile), and let them do their work.

Blitz has expanded on the infantry options by including the ATV-mounted infantry, cavalry (barnabies, armadillo beasts, and greater pack lizards), motorcycles, turtles hell heavy infantry... there are a slew of options.

The downside is that being 12mm, the ground pounders are tiny enough you have to be careful how you store them.

As far as releasing 2nd Edition Tactical rules, I am unsure if DP9 might release them since Arkrite Press is preparing to go into its Test Pilot Program for the RPG rules. It isn't a bad idea though.

 Alpharius wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Out of curiosity... are there any plans for infantry during the KS? I see some for sale on the website, so I know they're part of the game, but haven't seen any via stretch-goal, etc...

Are infantry a substantial part of this game?

Good question!

I've been looking for a game in this scale, with mechs, tanks and infantry ever since GW abandoned Space Marine/Titan Legion!

They are to me, that's to be sure. In HG, every unit has pros and cons. Infantry is still the units you want to actually take and hold territory, as they can be pretty hard to dislodge, and they have access to some heavy stuff (or rather had: the infantry weapons in the beta are on the weaksauce range so far).

OTOH, the Gears' niche would be similar to the current IFVs: relatively light vehicles able to carry heavy ordnance, but not really able to face real MBT weapons without dying. They tend to shine in difficult and built-up terrain where other more conventional vehicles have trouble, and where unobstructed lines of sight are kinda hard to come by.

Tanks are still the kings of the battlefield, and can kill anything on open ground. Terra Nova's weather makes air power not really all that powerful, so that's even more so than here.

 Albertorius wrote:

Tanks are still the kings of the battlefield, and can kill anything on open ground. Terra Nova's weather makes air power not really all that powerful, so that's even more so than here.

The weather is SUPPOSED to make air power not really all that powerful but now that they're introducing new and expensive resin models for the airpower in blitz scale for the first time that may change (see the Gear$trider We Need to $ell These Model$ Retcon Effect). I've never tried out airpower in the alpha/beta rules so I'd have to depend on others to tell me if it actually still is the case. I ended up using DZC fighter bombers for my airstrike counters for my blitz armies.

BrandonKF wrote:
Infantry forces in 2nd edition were often good as a pillbox defense. Stick them inside a building or bunker, arm them with an AGM (Anti-Gear missile), and let them do their work.

Or don't. You were also able to airdrop them, or give them jetpacks to make them faster, or ATVs/ORVs for the same. There were lots of options.

Infantry was kind of a pain because most weapons were not designed to attack them by default (so they had problems hitting them) and also most weapons did damage to a limited amount of them. Also, infantry squads usually fielded 2 kinds of weapons, standard and heavy ones: although usually the only weapons actually useful against vehicles were the heavy ones, the fact that infantry received bonuses to their RoF made them abble to mass standard weapons against light vehicles to damage them.

Blitz has expanded on the infantry options by including the ATV-mounted infantry, cavalry (barnabies, armadillo beasts, and greater pack lizards), motorcycles, turtles hell heavy infantry... there are a slew of options.

Those were on 2nd edition too, actually. And also jeptack infantry, that has since apparently disappeared from the game.

warboss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Tanks are still the kings of the battlefield, and can kill anything on open ground. Terra Nova's weather makes air power not really all that powerful, so that's even more so than here.

The weather is SUPPOSED to make air power not really all that powerful but now that they're introducing new and expensive resin models for the airpower in blitz scale for the first time that may change (see the Gear$trider We Need to $ell These Model$ Retcon Effect). I've never tried out airpower in the alpha/beta rules so I'd have to depend on others to tell me if it actually still is the case. I ended up using DZC fighter bombers for my airstrike counters for my blitz armies.

The hoppers aren't exactly like the fighter-bombers and bombers. They all have the Fragile Movement vehicle trait. Once they lose Hull points, they suffer a -2D6 penalty to their PILOT checks, making flying them when they are crippled very unpleasant.

Albertorius wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
Infantry forces in 2nd edition were often good as a pillbox defense. Stick them inside a building or bunker, arm them with an AGM (Anti-Gear missile), and let them do their work.

Or don't. You were also able to airdrop them, or give them jetpacks to make them faster, or ATVs/ORVs for the same. There were lots of options.

Infantry was kind of a pain because most weapons were not designed to attack them by default (so they had problems hitting them) and also most weapons did damage to a limited amount of them. Also, infantry squads usually fielded 2 kinds of weapons, standard and heavy ones: although usually the only weapons actually useful against vehicles were the heavy ones, the fact that infantry received bonuses to their RoF made them abble to mass standard weapons against light vehicles to damage them.

Blitz has expanded on the infantry options by including the ATV-mounted infantry, cavalry (barnabies, armadillo beasts, and greater pack lizards), motorcycles, turtles hell heavy infantry... there are a slew of options.

Those were on 2nd edition too, actually. And also jeptack infantry, that has since apparently disappeared from the game.

You know I never saw the jump jet infantry except in Gear Krieg. Probably for the best.

Interesting thread. I played HG in the first edition when it was 87th scale as a companion to the first RPG, very fun. I also got to play a couple of games in the 144th scale at conventions, also good times. I haven't been a Heavy Gear aficionado in about a decade, but this could change with the KS. Definitely plastics are appreciated.

144th scale is pretty cool. There's a lot of cool 144th scale models from Japan to throw in for terrain.

These plastics aren't going to be restic like Mantic or Relic Knights are they? If so, that's a deal breaker for me. I hate that stuff...bane of the earth.

No. Dave mentioned earlier in this thread they were switching to styrene and they are working with a company dealing with professional aircraft models.

Albertorius wrote:The tactical miniatures rules book also has pretty interesting stuff, IMHO. Like simplified damage rules in case you want to use them, Skirmish rules with reworked ranges and action stuff, and the fabulous Heavy Gear Toy Combat rules!

You're right. It does have some cool stuff in there too. People should get both.

I hope the end result of this Kickstarter is the widespread availability of reasonably priced plastic gears at retailers. I'm not a fan of the general approach of Blitz and later, but I've enjoyed some of DP9's model releases over the years.

Great. I only know restic by name, didn't know if it was a type of styrene plastic, I just know that polystyrene is the good stuff. I didn't see the post with the aircraft models.

Wonder if the plastic casting will be done in Canada? Or be an international company?

I think this Kickstarter should add some TERRAIN, eh?
Being plastic or even resin, size could be only a minor factor, think a huge colony dome? Or maybe some Badlands outposts. Extraneous to the current resin terrain... as in more terrain please!

@RedSarge. In their FAQ they confirmed it is an American company they are talking to.

KS Page FAQ wrote:Are the prices we see here going to be the retail cost of the models when they are released?

No. We expect to have to adjust the cost upwards from 10 to 50%. The individual Add-on rewards cost is being kept low during the Kickstarter as a thanks to our backers.

If this ends up anywhere near +50% then they're approaching charging the same price for plastic as they currently do for metal.

If the end result of this KS is that plastic Hunters, Jaguars, Jagers and Black Mambas end up near the +10% over KS, then that would definitely allow for some lowered barrier to entry for new players.