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2016/08/08 23:40:59
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
One of the things that surprises me is that NuCoal doesn't have any of the armed civilian vehicles like Antelope and Wallabys. Or civilian versions there in. It seems like something that a group founded on a collection of badlands militia would have.
2016/08/09 02:06:32
Subject: Re:Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
warboss wrote: Some concept art from the next kickstarter for nucoal posted elsewhere previewed supposedly at gencon. I wasn't there so can't verify it myself though. At least its not a gearstrider but rather a gear/hovercar ala the Hussar tank strider and another contribution from their HAPF absorption into Nucoal. The color scheme seems off for Nucoal though as I thought they were supposed to be light blue.
Spoiler:
Rumor is that it'll come with bits for rollerskates and a single MCW horn for the head. Supposedly the fluff says it can only be piloted by teenage females as they seem most susceptible to old HAPF brainwashing techniques. Trollololol.
You joke, but she WAS piloted by a teenage boy, in Headmasters.
2016/08/09 03:07:06
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
Been so long since I have messed with the metal it is hard to make an honest comparison. Just from recollection it has much of the detail, but not 100% tbh.
On their own it is a very sturdy, hard plastic. Each Gear is its own sprue and has several options for when making it. Each sprue also has the name of the Gear that it makes on it, which is nice. I would almost put it on par with the GW plastic for durability and detail. On the other hand it comes with Hex bases that have slots in them but none of them use the slots so that will need to be filled in.
The book I am really not happy with. It looks like it was printed at Kinkos with low weight paper. It has some nice illustrations in it but it feels cheap. I was hoping for something a bit better put together.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2016/08/09 04:28:53
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
Yeah, I didn't want to get too deep into it. Another advantage gears had was that any factory making gears could probably be retooled quickly and inexpensively to make almost any gear (Hardhats today, Jagers tomorrow!), where things like tanks and striders would need a hell of a lot more to retool a construction equipment factory. That and gears didn't have the weapons integrated into the vehicle - all hardpoint mounted or handheld - being mass produced by Paxton, probably.
To a degree. You could switch a grizzly production line to the engineering version fairly easily, but there wouldn't be much in common between a hunter line and a grizzly line. While there would be similar machinery, the different in size and design would require the change.
Real world version, A B1 bomber plant can't just start making 737's, even if they're both planes and about the same size.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/09 05:43:36
2016/08/09 06:16:20
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
Mmmpi wrote: To a degree. You could switch a grizzly production line to the engineering version fairly easily, but there wouldn't be much in common between a hunter line and a grizzly line. While there would be similar machinery, the different in size and design would require the change.
Real world version, A B1 bomber plant can't just start making 737's, even if they're both planes and about the same size.
Yeah, basically: variants of the same model would be relatively easy to retool, but Hardhats versus Jägers would be like trying to make Humvwees in a Ford Pinto plant.
OTOH, as John says, having manipulators and hardpoints many civilian models can be pressed into combat with relative ease. That's why many militias and bandits use upgunned Hardhats and the like.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/09 06:18:33
2016/08/09 06:20:00
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
Mmmpi wrote: One of the things that surprises me is that NuCoal doesn't have any of the armed civilian vehicles like Antelope and Wallabys. Or civilian versions there in. It seems like something that a group founded on a collection of badlands militia would have.
That has more to do with the fact that the designers wanted to make a wargame faction who had everything cool than with anything else. Simply put, nobody bothered to flesh it out except when it came to "cool models". That's why the NuCoal have armadillo beast riders with exploding lances instead of, say, off road vehicles.
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Mmmpi wrote: Does that mean you'd have HMMV's that burst into flames at the drop of a hat?
Only if you want to!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/09 06:21:05
2016/08/09 18:01:37
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
Mmmpi wrote: To a degree. You could switch a grizzly production line to the engineering version fairly easily, but there wouldn't be much in common between a hunter line and a grizzly line. While there would be similar machinery, the different in size and design would require the change.
Real world version, A B1 bomber plant can't just start making 737's, even if they're both planes and about the same size.
I think it's worth noting that flexible manufacturing is a thing today. We're not talking just variants of a chassis, either. The nearest Honda plant to me builds both Civics and CRV on the same line (a line that also built, in the past, the Odyssey, Ridgeline and MDX and ZDX). One manufacturing line making sedan, SUV, minivans and psuedo-truck-SUV-hybrid things and luxury sport utes.
Granted, you have to build a production line to be flexible from the start, but that gets easier the better your robotics gets.
I haven't been keeping up on new developments in manufacturing. That's good to know. It seems like there would still be a rough size limit however, with one line able to make cheetahs and Ferrets, but would have to be retooled to make hunters and tigers. At least in theory.
On another note, NuCoal has several gears listed as "Various", typically in my experience when I've seen that in the past it means small shop, rather than small/medium factory. Very likely hand tool/hand crafted rather than on an assembly line. Does the established back story for the faction bear that out?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/09 23:07:06
2016/08/10 02:17:30
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
Mmmpi wrote: I haven't been keeping up on new developments in manufacturing. That's good to know. It seems like there would still be a rough size limit however, with one line able to make cheetahs and Ferrets, but would have to be retooled to make hunters and tigers. At least in theory.
On another note, NuCoal has several gears listed as "Various", typically in my experience when I've seen that in the past it means small shop, rather than small/medium factory. Very likely hand tool/hand crafted rather than on an assembly line. Does the established back story for the faction bear that out?
That's an interesting question, and the answer is yes and no. Prior to NuCoal being a playable faction, the established backstory was essentially "Some badlands towns hang out at parties together, and Paxton makes fun of their club." Within the confines of their backstory NOW, the "small shop" idea fits at least the Jerboa. It's made by a company that makes nothing else, and it's more or less a bodymod/tuner package/aerokit for the Ferret anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/10 02:18:13
2016/08/10 03:42:22
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
Mmmpi wrote: I haven't been keeping up on new developments in manufacturing. That's good to know. It seems like there would still be a rough size limit however, with one line able to make cheetahs and Ferrets, but would have to be retooled to make hunters and tigers. At least in theory.
You might not get a line building Cheetahs and then Grizzlies, but it's not outside the realm of possibility either. Gears range in metric tonnage from 5 (Ferret) to topping out around 10 IIRC. It really depends how much the factory spent on flexibility in the first place. At some point it's just going to be cheaper to make more factories rather than spend extra money on maximum flexibility.
Note that there is considerable downtime switching from one to another. Also, that's just final assembly - tool and die is very expensive and time consuming to switch over. For the size of these things, I doubt they could possibly switch the dies in less than a week. Probably 2 or 3 weeks.
Mmmpi wrote: Which in some ways would have made more sense if NMW was the one making it. Seeing as they build ferrets.
I was referring more to the Chasseur, the Cuirassier, and the Chasseur Paratrooper.
Those just plain don't make sense. Just roll with it . But in the case of the Chasseur I guess they are counting the Erech and Nineveh production (nevermind that they don't have a need whatsoever of a PT model, of course).
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JohnHwangDD wrote: Note that there is considerable downtime switching from one to another. Also, that's just final assembly - tool and die is very expensive and time consuming to switch over. For the size of these things, I doubt they could possibly switch the dies in less than a week. Probably 2 or 3 weeks.
Earther weeks or terranovan weeks?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/10 06:10:52
2016/08/10 06:32:37
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
JohnHwangDD wrote: Note that there is considerable downtime switching from one to another. Also, that's just final assembly - tool and die is very expensive and time consuming to switch over. For the size of these things, I doubt they could possibly switch the dies in less than a week. Probably 2 or 3 weeks.
Earther weeks or terranovan weeks?
First one, than the other. Double, and stir.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/08/10 07:05:20
2016/08/10 07:10:06
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
Perhaps the topic of real life manufacturing techniques extended to a fictional planet thousands of light years away and thousands of years in the future deserves its own thread or switch to the general thread since it's not really applicable to this KS specific thread? (unless of course DP9 isn't making the sprues in the USA now but rather on TN in the distant future and transporting them across space/time to Quebec!)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/10 14:32:05
2016/08/10 13:23:33
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406
JohnHwangDD wrote: Note that there is considerable downtime switching from one to another. Also, that's just final assembly - tool and die is very expensive and time consuming to switch over. For the size of these things, I doubt they could possibly switch the dies in less than a week. Probably 2 or 3 weeks.
Getting the equipment ready takes months. Installing it takes a week. Once it's in place, switching models takes minutes.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Note that there is considerable downtime switching from one to another. Also, that's just final assembly - tool and die is very expensive and time consuming to switch over. For the size of these things, I doubt they could possibly switch the dies in less than a week. Probably 2 or 3 weeks.
Getting the equipment ready takes months. Installing it takes a week. Once it's in place, switching models takes minutes.
Given the setting and tiny volumes under discussion, the notion of hypermodern JIT / LEAN techniques seems beyond farfetched.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Given the setting and tiny volumes under discussion, the notion of hypermodern JIT / LEAN techniques seems beyond farfetched.
I don't know why. While the setting assumes a fairly realistic technological base, versatile robotics manufacturing is less complex than walking military IFVs by a long stretch. Research and development of a good platform is likely a far bigger issue, especially with the rise of NuCoal.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Thanks, yeah, that's a far more lethal environment. And not unreasonable based on the fluff of light armor and big guns!
Much more lethal. Overkill from full health is the single most common dice result (lumping 4, 5, and 6 damage hits together since they're effectively the same result.. overkill) at 24% of shots. If you fire an LAC at optimal range from a hunter to a jager, you'd at do at least a point of damage or more 73% of the time and cripple the target or worse 39% of the time. A commando gear like a Mamba shooting at a hunter with an MAC would overkill it from full health 46% of the time! That is some votoms level carnage that would definitely lead to higher model counts and less record keeping... but probably not be appropriate for skirmish model counts. I've got some interesting ideas on that...
Firing a not-Jager firing a not-LAC at a not-Hunter is most commonly doing nothing 55% of the time, but 20% it's destroying the target, and crippling 25% of the time. A not-Mamba or not-GREL Frame is going to do better, of course. While a target in cover would survive far better.
While the concept was to have Infinity levels of terrain, for this to be a cover-driven game, in playtesting, I was having difficulty scrounging up enough cover to make it not auto-kill. Hence the recent rework.
Thoughts and comments preferred in the lethality thread. Thanks!
Trollololol.
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. But in the case of the Chasseur I guess they are counting the Erech and Nineveh production (nevermind that they don't have a need whatsoever of a PT model, of course).
