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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Pope Francis declares that the BBT is right and that god isn't a "magician with a magic wand". He says that they do not contradict the existence of a god, in the contrary, god's existence "requires it".

Now finally, thousands of Christians can believe in what thousands of people knew all along!

 Sigvatr wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Pope Francis declares that the BBT is right and that god isn't a "magician with a magic wand". He says that they do not contradict the existence of a god, in the contrary, god's existence "requires it".

Now finally, thousands of Christians can believe in what thousands of people knew all along!

And what stopped Christians believing this before this? (Free Will & all that)

In fairness, I think most Christains, certainly the ones I know, never really disbelieved the ideas of the Big Bang or evolution and if one is so inclined, it is easy enough to reconcile the Big Bang theory with a creator-God, simply using the 'unmoved mover' argument.

 Sigvatr wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Pope Francis declares that the BBT is right and that god isn't a "magician with a magic wand". He says that they do not contradict the existence of a god, in the contrary, god's existence "requires it".

Now finally, thousands of Christians can believe in what thousands of people knew all along!

Victory for logic and science!

 Sigvatr wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Pope Francis declares that the BBT is right and that god isn't a "magician with a magic wand". He says that they do not contradict the existence of a god, in the contrary, god's existence "requires it".

Now finally, thousands of Christians can believe in what thousands of people knew all along!

From what I understand, this has been the Church's stance on the matter for some time.

I mean a Catholic priest from Belgium named Georges Lemaître is the guy who figured out that the Universe was expanding, and was the first person to suggest the idea of the Big Bang, which is called the "primeval atom."

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Pope Francis declares that the BBT is right and that god isn't a "magician with a magic wand". He says that they do not contradict the existence of a god, in the contrary, god's existence "requires it".

Now finally, thousands of Christians can believe in what thousands of people knew all along!

From what I understand, this has been the Church's stance on the matter for some time.

I mean a Catholic priest from Belgium named Georges Lemaître is the guy who figured out that the Universe was expanding, and was the first person to suggest the idea of the Big Bang, which is called the "primeval atom."

This. As sceptical as I am of religion sometimes, credit where credit's due.

This gets my vote for "worst original post of the day."

Indeed. Most of the things we attribute to Hubble were actually first proposed by Lemaitre, the main contribution being made by Hubble was the math to prove the hypothesis correct.

Granted, the Church authorities have gone back and forth on this in the past, so a clear cut statement from the Pope is still somewhat useful.

 Paradigm wrote:
In fairness, I think most Christains, certainly the ones I know, never really disbelieved the ideas of the Big Bang or evolution and if one is so inclined, it is easy enough to reconcile the Big Bang theory with a creator-God, simply using the 'unmoved mover' argument.

Really? Most Christians I know, which is a lot--my whole family, for example--don't believe in the Big Bang or evolution. They honestly and truly believe that the Universe was created in just a few days by some dude who may or may not have had a magic wand. Their primary reasoning for said theory is that "well, the universe didn't come from nothing!" but then they can't explain how their deity came from nothing. It's hard to reason with people like that.

The Church as taken a neutral stance on evolution as far back as 1950 (before that, there was no official position on the matter), when Pius XII said that there is no conflict between the Church and the theory of evolution as long you recognized the divinity of the soul apart from the physical body.

John Paul II said in 1996 that the evidence for evolution shows that it is more than a hypothesis, but the Church cannot accept a materialistic explanation of the soul.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Now finally, thousands of Christians can believe in what thousands of people knew all along!

It technically is still a theory not science fact. but it is the closest we can get

 LordofHats wrote:
Indeed. Most of the things we attribute to Hubble were actually first proposed by Lemaitre, the main contribution being made by Hubble was the math to prove the hypothesis correct.

It also helped that Hubble was an American and Lemaître spent most of his life in Europe.

And he was a Catholic Priest. I mean, since when has one of them done anything for science

The above statement is sarcastic.

There are plenty of faithful people, Christians included, who don't simply refute the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution. We just tend to take the position that God is not dumb. The is no reason why God couldn't have thought of animals needing to change over time or the universe having a logical starting point. God is not in the business of creating something, only to have to make changes every so often to keep the ball rolling. He puts systems into place (I.e., physics and biology) and let's those natural systems play out over time.

He wouldn't be a very good Creator if he had to go back and fix things, right? Contrary to the Internet, all Christians aren't ignorant, hateful people. But we also don't need anyone's validation for our beliefs.

 Sigvatr wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Pope Francis declares that the BBT is right and that god isn't a "magician with a magic wand". He says that they do not contradict the existence of a god, in the contrary, god's existence "requires it".
!

And this has been the Catholic Church's stance for quite some time.

As has evolution.

Genesis, when taught, is done so allegorically.

What's the purpose here....to troll intentionally?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the_Armyman wrote:


He wouldn't be a very good Creator if he had to go back and fix things, right? Contrary to the Internet, all Christians aren't ignorant, hateful people. But we also don't need anyone's validation for our beliefs.

Hear hear!

"Christianity" has not believed that evolution is wrong or required a non-believe in evolution.

So since the title of the thread is wrong can we go around proclaiming that Atheism is wrong?

Or can we maybe get a change of the title? Because at this point this thread qualifies as a "rant thread" that does nothing except attack a single group of people.

 d-usa wrote:
"Christianity" has not believed that evolution is wrong or required a non-believe in evolution.

Go ask all the scientists whose work about it got banned in ye olde days..

 the_Armyman wrote:
Contrary to the Internet, all Christians aren't ignorant, hateful people.

Is that really how you feel? Sounds like a slight spin.

 cincydooley wrote:
What's the purpose here....to troll intentionally?

An anti-CatholicChristianity quest for pats on the shoulder was my impression.

 Aesop the God Awful wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
What's the purpose here....to troll intentionally?

An anti-Catholic quest for pats on the shoulder was my impression.

I'd like to view the OP as a slightly more humorous approach to the ever-raging flamewars on the subject that are daily occurrences on the internet.

 d-usa wrote:


Or can we maybe get a change of the title? Because at this point this thread qualifies as a "rant thread" that does nothing except attack a single group of people.

It's not a rant thread, if you followed my posts, you'd see that I am pretty darn pro-Christian. It's provoking on purpose, get attention and stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

I'd like to view the OP as a slightly more humorous approach to the ever-raging flamewars on the subject that are daily occurrences on the internet.

Winner.

 Sigvatr wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Pope Francis declares that the BBT is right and that god isn't a "magician with a magic wand". He says that they do not contradict the existence of a god, in the contrary, god's existence "requires it".

Now finally, thousands of Christians can believe in what thousands of people knew all along!

That has been Catholic doctrine for some time.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:


Or can we maybe get a change of the title? Because at this point this thread qualifies as a "rant thread" that does nothing except attack a single group of people.

It's not a rant thread, if you followed my posts, you'd see that I am pretty darn pro-Christian. It's provoking on purpose, get attention and stuff.

So you lie to get a reaction and attention and stuff?

Be that as it may please change the title to something A. less provocative and that is also B. somewhat less sweeping. Most Xtians are pretty much on board with the general gist of science and the like.

The title is a bit too OTT, but let's take the OP at his word and we'll see how many people we get to warn or suspend this goes for a while with a title change.

Thank you.

Sig, your original post definitely looks like you're baiting people with that closing sentence. That said, most intelligent Christians don't believe the universe was created in 6 "days" as we understand days to work. It's not a black and white beginning. Science doesn't disprove God, just like God doesn't disprove science.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
"Christianity" has not believed that evolution is wrong or required a non-believe in evolution.

Go ask all the scientists whose work about it got banned in ye olde days..

Hard to be banned for evolution, when the theory didn't exist yet...

 Frazzled wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Pope Francis declares that the BBT is right and that god isn't a "magician with a magic wand". He says that they do not contradict the existence of a god, in the contrary, god's existence "requires it".

Now finally, thousands of Christians can believe in what thousands of people knew all along!

That has been Catholic doctrine for some time.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution

Which does not mean a lot of people actually believe so, however.

 d-usa wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:


Or can we maybe get a change of the title? Because at this point this thread qualifies as a "rant thread" that does nothing except attack a single group of people.

It's not a rant thread, if you followed my posts, you'd see that I am pretty darn pro-Christian. It's provoking on purpose, get attention and stuff.

So you lie to get a reaction and attention and stuff?

Well, someone got offended.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
"Christianity" has not believed that evolution is wrong or required a non-believe in evolution.

Go ask all the scientists whose work about it got banned in ye olde days..

Hard to be banned for evolution, when the theory didn't exist yet...

Remember what happened to Darwin's books on the theory?

I'm not sure if they were actually banned, but I recall the Church did take actions (?) against it, like they did against a lot of things that dispute whatever the Bible says.

 Aesop the God Awful wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
What's the purpose here....to troll intentionally?

An anti-CatholicChristianity quest for pats on the shoulder was my impression.

Well now that the attempted anti-Catholic hitpiece has turned around and bit them on the ass, we conclude with something a little more subtle.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:


Or can we maybe get a change of the title? Because at this point this thread qualifies as a "rant thread" that does nothing except attack a single group of people.

It's not a rant thread, if you followed my posts, you'd see that I am pretty darn pro-Christian. It's provoking on purpose, get attention and stuff.

So you lie to get a reaction and attention and stuff?

Well, someone got offended.

Yes, I am offended by misleading threads that rely on painting groups with the wrong brush just to get a reaction out of people.

There is a perfectly fine discussion that could be had with this topic, but when it starts out with "All Christians are wrong, now they can be smart too if they want to" then it is a lost cause.

<deleted, that Probably wasnt helpful to the conversation>