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2014/11/02 22:35:15
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
I had a big battle, using double-CAD, against Tau. For this battle, I brought Necrons, but I brought a completely different list than what I normally run. This is my unconventional list. There are no night scythes, annihilation barges, bargelords nor wraiths in this list. As a matter of fact, there is only 1 Mindshackle Scarabs in the army. Rather, it is more of an experimental list, running units that I have never used or that I seldom use. I am trying out a lot of the Forgeworld Necron units as well as the Maynark Necrons from the Imperial Armour series. Basically, my offense focuses on 2 key elements - the Sentrystar and the Scarab-farm. So why run this type of list as opposed to my normal, competitive crons?
1. I wanted to try out new things and units I seldom use.
2. I wanted to challenge myself.
3. I'm going to throw my opponent a curveball. He's probably expecting bargelords, wraithstars, night scythes and annihilation barges. Nuh uh....he ain't having none of that.
4. It's a nice change of pace to try something different.
As for my opponent, he brought probably one of his better lists. Come to think of it, it's actually a very good list for Tau and has got the tools/balance to handle almost any army. Let's see how he can handle an army that he probably has no experience ever going up against. BTW, he has played against my AV13-spam competitive Necrons and came very close to beating it before. However, he may be in for quite a surprise against this army.
1. Hold your Objective 1.
2. Hold your Objective 2.
3. Hold your opponent's Objective 1.
4. Hold your opponent's Objective 2.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
It's very ironic that my opponent brought 9 Void Shields against a Necron army that doesn't shoot very well. Lol. So that basically negates whatever weak shooting I had and will force me to close in on his army. This is going to be a tough army for me to deal with. He's got a lot of firepower as well as the markerlights to deny me any cover. While I do have some protection from his shooting with my Tomb Citadel, I am going to have to venture out of it to get to his army and when I do, my crons will be vulnerable. Also, he is going 2nd against me. In an objectives match, I really wanted to go 2nd, but he won the roll for Initiative and chose to go 2nd. After seeing his army and the mission setup, I knew I was going to be the underdog in this battle. However, I do have 2 things going for me:
1) My army is easily under-estimated. None of the units I use are very common nor do they look very scary on paper. Thus, I will have the element of surprise in this matchup.
2) Experience. I've definitely got the experience edge against my young opponent. He's only been playing for about a year now, and he has never beaten any of my competitive lists (though he's come close a couple of times). He also isn't as familiar with how my army works as I am with his.
My opponent's unfamiliarity with my army and my experience edge just may be enough to compensate for the disadvantages that my army has against his. We shall see.
BTW, I played the Sentrystar as conservatively as possible rules-wise. That means hits generated against 1 unit apply only to that unit. For example, if the 3 pylons hit 3 separate vehicles, that means each vehicle takes 6 hits each (and not 18 hits each as would happen under pure RAW).
1. Hold your Objective 1.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.
Tau:
4. Hold your opponent's Objective 2.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
Of all the risky moves I make, this is probably one of the riskiest. I teleport my Sentrystar (that is, the sentry pylons with Imotekh and Obyron) into the heart of Tau territory. I can feel my opponent giving me the "what-are-you-doing" look and I could tell he was trying hard to suppress his smile, but I didn't care. The Cron does what the Cron wants.
Spiders and Tomb citadel generate scarabs, who then advance, with the Destroyer Lord leading the swarm. The rest of my army moves as well.
Spiders and scarabs then run forwards.
BTW, I teleport my immortals (with veil-tek) very aggressively as well, going after his marker drones behind the LOS-blocking ruins. However, they scatter off the table and then go back into reserves. (I then forget to bring them back next turn. )
Tesseract Ark fire into the markerdrones with Commander. I kill 4 and put 1W on the commander.
Sentry pylon then goes after the Void Shield Network (VSN), pathfinders and 1 riptide. Unfortunately, I don't do enough damage. I put 2W on the riptide, kill 2 pathfinders only and take out 1 Void Shield Generator (that's 3 shields permanently gone) as well as 2 hull points from a 2nd VSG (basically, the VSN is made up of 3 VSG's).
Fortunately for me, the pathfinders fail Morale and then run off the table. First Blood to the crons!
To which my opponent smiles and says, "Hey, I don't mind giving up First Blood if it means that I can take out your sentrystar next turn."
Tau 1
Spoiler:
All of his riptides pass their Nova tests. Marker drones move to get a bead on my Sentrystar.
This may hurt. Gulp!
The Sentrystar lives! Due to some bad dice by my opponent and a couple of major mistakes, I only end up losing 1 pylon and taking 2W on Imotekh.
So what did my Tau friend do wrong?
1. My opponent made a major mistake with regards to his positioning. In order to spread them out to minimize the number of hits my sentrystar could potentially inflict, he moved one of his riptides (the leftmost riptide) outside of his Void Shield Network. On the other hand, I had purposefully deepstruck my unit last turn to be within the protection range of the VSN. Thus, they were protected from one of his riptides as well as the Longstrike railhead (which my opponent fired first into them). Thus, that took the firepower of 1 riptide and the railhead out of the picture.
2. He had 13 markerlights hit. While he used them to remove my cover, however, he didn't use them to raise his BS. It would have helped because all of his shots scattered off, clipping only 1 or 2 of my models at most.
3. He just rolled poorly as each of his shot scattered from 4-7" away from my unit.
The tides then jump back with their Assault moves.
Overall, I get somewhat lucky this turn, surviving his firepower with just minimal damage. I guess that evens out as my Turn 1 shooting was somewhat lackluster as well.
So I hold my Objective #1 and I also kill a unit this turn (his pathfinders), netting me both Maelstrom objectives (as well as First Blood).
Unfortunately, my opponent failed to achieve either of his Maelstrom objectives this turn.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 2, Tau: 0
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
2. Hold your Objective 2.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
Tau:
1. Hold your Objective 1.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
The nightshroud bomber comes in.
Necron movement. Obyron and Imotekh splits off from the sentry pylons.
Spiders and Citadel generate another 7 scarabs (though 2 of my spiders take 1W each). I am up to 24 scarab bases now.
My opponent has made another huge mistake. He severely under-estimated the speed and reach of my scarab-farm. Before he knows what has happened, my scarab-farm is within multi-assault range of 2 of his riptides!
Flayed ones prepare for assault!
The nightshroud bomber drops a bomb on his commander and markerdrones, but because they are in ruins, I only manage to kill 1.
The sentry pylons then shoot at them and kill 3-4 drones as well as put 2W on the riptide.
Drones then fail Morale and fall back with Commander.
Bam! His worst nightmare comes true as I multi-assault both riptides with my scarab-farm.
Flayed ones assault the railhead as well. However, my HQ duo fail to make a 6" charge against his Commander with marker drones.
The railhead is wrecked after 36 rending attacks.
We tie combat here as the top riptide fails Mindshackle scarabs. I do 3W to him and the other riptide kills 1 scarab base to draw combat.
Right now, I am exactly where I want to be, with the scarabs tying up 2 riptides and the Sentrystar still alive.
Tau 2
Spoiler:
Farsight and Shadowsun with fusion suits come in and go after both the sentry pylons as well as my ghost ark.
Again, my opponent makes another crucial mistake, forgetting about the Void Shield Network once again. Now normally, I would tell my opponent about this in a casual game. However, my opponent is striving to become a more competitive player. Thus, I felt that in order for him to really learn, he needs to learn through his mistakes, and so I keep quiet.
One suit drops into my Tomb Citadel.
Another suit goes after my tomb blade (who BTW is claiming my Objective #2). If he can take out my jetbike, then that would be a 2-pt Maelstrom turnaround. He would get 1-pt for killing 1 of my units and he would also deny me 1-pt for claiming Objective #2).
My opponent's bad dice continues as he fires both missile suits at my tomb blade. 4 shots, only 1 hits and I make my 4+ jink save!
Kroots come in but fail to shoot down a single warrior.
Riptide fires his large blast at the flayed ones and kill 7.
The Farsun mini-bomb then fires and my opponent realizes his mistake. They don't do anything to the pylons due to the Void Shields and only manage to hit my ghost ark once, which I then save.
The Farsun mini-bomb then jumps back and into the protection of the ruins.
In combat, I kill 1 riptide and strip the 2nd riptide of its 2+ armor with Entropic Strike. I also bring him down to just 1W left but miraculously, he passes Morale.
Overall, another very poor turn of shooting by my opponent due once again to a misplay on his part as well as a streak of cold dice.
I get both of my Maelstrome objectives (tomb blade on Objective #2, killed a riptide). This turn, my opponent does manage to get 1 of his (kroots on his Objective #1).
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 4, Tau: 1
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
3. Hold your opponent's Objective 1.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
Tau:
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.
I finally remember about my immortals. They auto-come in due to being in Ongoing Reserves. Warriors go to screen out my objective from the kroots.
Nightshroud bomber flies off the table, dropping another bomb as it does. I take out 4 marker drones and a kroot (BTW, his commander + marker drone unit regrouped last turn).
Ghost ark and tesseract ark go after his command squad, the Farsun mini-bomb. I place my ghost ark such that it can broadside both the bomb and my opponent's unit of Commander + marker drones.
Obyron + Imotekh prepare to go after his riptide or a potential multi-assault.
Immortals shoot down the lone suit. Jetbike turbo-boost onto my objective.
Warriors fail in shooting, only managing to kill 2 kroots.
Sentry pylons insta-kill both commanders and the marker drones.
The ghost ark, the guys inside the ghost ark and the tesseract ark fire at his Warlord's unit. However, thanks to 2+ cover, they only lose 1 crisis suit and take 1W on another.
My HQ's make the charge against the riptide. I fail to do any damage due to his 3++ and his riptide fail to do any due to Imotekh's 3++ as well.
Finally, I finish off his riptide with my scarab-farm, who then spread out.
Tau 3
Spoiler:
Plasma suits finally come in and go after his Objective #2 as well as my pylons. Have fun, guys!
The last unit of kroots come in. His other unit moves towards my warriors.
Shooting doesn't do too much. His mini-bomb wipes out my flayed ones with split-fire but that is all he is able to do with his shooting.
Riptide assaults into the combat with my HQ's. BTW, one of his riptide has 3++ and the other one failed his Nova.
Now you see him....
....now you don't. I win combat and the grey riptide runs off the table. The other riptide stays locked.
Shooting with the unit of kroot that just came in does nothing to my warriors, so he charges with his other unit of kroots. Unfortunately for him, Overwatch kills 4 of them!
They make it into combat and actually beat my crons 2-1. However, I pass Morale and we remain locked, both contesting the 3-pt objective.
At this point, my opponent has got a 1-pt objective....
....a 2-pt objective here....
....and another 2-pt objective for 5 Scouring points.
I've got the the 3-pointer here....
....and a 1-pointer here. However, I also killed 3 of his Fast Attacks (2x units of markerdrones, pathfinders) for a total of 7 Scouring points.
I am also dominating on the Maelstrom secondary and have First Blood and Linebreaker to his Linebreaker only.
More importantly, I am about the overrun the rest of his army with my scarab-farm and if his command squad leave the protection of the ruins, they are going to get shot down my my sentry pylons.
With that, my opponent concedes.
Total Domination by the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!
What I thought would be a tough game for my crons turned out to be a brutal game for my opponent instead. It was a combination of bad dice for my opponent as well as several crucial mistakes on his part that led to the surprising result (I honestly was surprised the game turned out the way it did). This was the first time he tried out the Void Shield Network and as such, he didn't really understand the nuances on how to use it properly. Thus, it turned to be more beneficial to me than to my opponent by protecting my Sentrystar from his shooting instead. On the flip side, however, the 300-pt investment I put into the Tomb Citadel really didn't do anything for my army as my opponent never targeted any of my units on it (and I never really left any units on it anyways). Thus, ironically, I didn't use my fortification at all (well, it did generate 2 scarab bases) but took full advantage of his.
So how did some of my new units do?
Sentrystar:A+. This deathstar is brutally good. Its damage output is incredible and it drew so much firepower from my opponent that it wasn't even funny. It survived 1 and a half turn of shooting from almost my opponent's entire army and still survived. In turn, it killed the pathfinders, a lot of marker drones, put a few wounds on some riptides, took down 1 of his Void Shield Generators (the Void Shield Network consists of 3 generators) and killed both Tau Commanders. In addition, it restricted my opponent's movement (move out of the ruins and die!). On top of that, my HQ's broke off from the star and then went on to kill a riptide. It would have been 2 riptides had we continued playing. And just a note, the damage potential is much more scary than this had I played actual RAW. Instead, I just played a toned-down version of the sentry pylons. This deathstar is as deadly as any out there.
Scarab-farm:A+. Another excellent unit. It is surprisingly quick and a very cheap unit. You need to let it grow for a turn or 2, but once the numbers go up, it becomes deadly. Add in some charnel scarabs and now you've got scarabs with Rending and Shred (at least the original 10 does, not the spawned ones). That makes it deadly even to units like riptides, dreadknights and wraithknights with potentially 50 Prefered Enemy, Rending, Shredding attacks on the charge. Basically, the Sentrystar does the early damage and draws all the firepower initially, but it is the Scarab-swarm that mops up and overruns the enemy in the later turns. In just 1 game turn, my "Scarabstar" finished off 2 riptides. Had the game continued, it would have done a lot more damage.
Flayed Ones:B+. A poor man's genestealer unit, they actually did ok this game, thanks to the Sentrystar drawing so much firepower. They killed the Longstrike railhead. Not too shabby for a 140-pt unit to take out a 180+ pt unit. However, these guys need support. Without support, they won't do much but die to enemy fire. But if you can add other vicious threats in your army to draw the heat away, this unit may surprise you.
Nightshroud Bomber:B. It's S10 AP1 bombs were rather useful in this game, killing some marker drones. Its shooting didn't do as much since I was shooting at riptides, but this unit will be a concern to elite armies. Overall, it is probably not worth its price tag (225-pts) but more play-testing needs to be done with this unit.
Tesseract Ark:B. The ark helped to take out some Tau infantry and put perhaps 1W on the enemy mini-bomb. It didn't kill its worth in points (250-pts) this game, but this unit has potential, especially against the more elitist armies. I did have another game with it where it carpet-bombed a 500-pt Space Wolf deathstar and practically wiped it out, but this unit is very matchup-dependent. It is the only unit in the army that serves the role of reliable AP2 shooting so if that is what your army needs, then I do recommend giving it a try.
Tomb Citadel:B. I love the defensive potential of this fortification. 3++ to any model on it from enemy shooting and re-roll Reanimation Protocols of '1'? Yessir! Unfortunately, my army didn't really take advantage of it as I left the "nest" early. If you are concerned about the enemy alpha-strike, then this is the fortification to consider....but only in larger games. I wouldn't recommend this fortification in any game less then 2K as it is a considerable investment. However, in larger games or games of Apoc, then I definitely recommend you give it a try.
This message was edited 18 times. Last update was at 2014/11/06 18:03:35
The riptide large blasts with ignore cover match up well against scarab farm. I am unfamiliar with the sentrystar, although Obryon probably has some cool tricks with it. Excited to see how this goes. On paper I favor the Tau by a wide margin, but jy2 wouldn't play a list like this without a solid theoryhammer plan for some top meta units such as Riptides. I'll give it to Jim 60/40.
2014/11/03 22:32:55
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau
Agtthot wrote: The riptide large blasts with ignore cover match up well against scarab farm. I am unfamiliar with the sentrystar, although Obryon probably has some cool tricks with it. Excited to see how this goes. On paper I favor the Tau by a wide margin, but jy2 wouldn't play a list like this without a solid theoryhammer plan for some top meta units such as Riptides. I'll give it to Jim 60/40.
Thanks.
Not only are the ion cannons good against Scarab-farm, but they might just work over my Sentry-star as well. That is because the Sentrystar teleports, shoots and now is bunched up closely together. Anytime you deepstrike and do not spread out, it's just bad news against an army that can lob S8/9 AP2 pie plates at you, and my opponent's got 4 of them that can ignore cover as well.
Warmonger2757 wrote: I want to see the Tesseract Ark in action. I almost bought one myself because I liked the rules and durability but the cost was a little prohibitive.
I got it because the rules are ok but mainly, the model rocks!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/03 22:35:51
skoffs wrote: Step 1: alpha strike the anti-air with SentryStar
Step 2: flyers wreak havoc unmolested
Step 3: mop up
I don't even really see any anti-air in the Tau list. I feel like a HBC/ECPA/VT Riptide should have been obligatory with as many points as they are playing.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2014/11/04 18:54:13
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau
Warmonger2757 wrote: I want to see the Tesseract Ark in action. I almost bought one myself because I liked the rules and durability but the cost was a little prohibitive.
I got it because the rules are ok but mainly, the model rocks!
Compared to the doomsday ark, it's night and day for only 75pts. You don't even have to jink with it. I just think that the Heavy 3 blast has the potential to do amazing damage. Plus the AV 14.
2014/11/06 17:12:19
Subject: Re:3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
Fragile wrote: What are your thoughts on the Sentry pylons?
A very scary and very good deathstar. As with any deathstar, it's got its weaknesses and can be taken out but overall, it's damage output is very high.
The pylon itself is a very good unit, especially with the FDR, but you do need to support it to reduce the target priority against it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/06 18:06:56
Nice report. would you mind explaining what the VSN does? is it a area bubble that protects from shooting? also considering your star obviously benefited from the VSN could the tau player have attempted to destroy his own VSN to make hurting your sentrystar easier?
2014/11/06 22:37:50
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
Basically, the VSN protects all units within its 12" radius from firepower coming from outside of its bubble. Doesn't matter if it's friendly fire or enemy fire. In our game, my Sentrystar was within range of the VSN and one of his riptides and his Farsun mini-bomb was "outside" shooting in. It only protects against shooting attack. However, if you can get within its 12" bubble, then it doesn't protect against your shooting (in other words, it doesn't offer any protection from a unit within its bubble firing at a target within its bubble).
Yes, he could have tried to wipe out his own VSN. However, 9 void shields is a lot to go through and as long as the individual Void Shield Generators are not destroyed, it can regenerate depleted void shields every game turn on 5+. In short, don't bother trying to go through your own void shields. It is much more efficient to get within its 12" bubble and then shoot at the enemy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/06 22:38:54
Great report, nice to see someone showing some love to the 'non-standard' list picks. Would be interesting to replay with your opponent doing the same thing - when was the last time anyone saw a Vespid in a Tau list?
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Jy2, this was utterly brilliant.
And to think, some people think playing it with the conservative RAI interpretation is handicapping yourself.
I'm preeeeeetty certain we just saw evidence to the contrary, above.
You absolutely need to try at least two more games with the SentryStar so everyone can see how it works.
Preferably at lower points and against other armies.
2014/11/07 20:58:21
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
Iapedus wrote: Great report, nice to see someone showing some love to the 'non-standard' list picks. Would be interesting to replay with your opponent doing the same thing - when was the last time anyone saw a Vespid in a Tau list?
Usually against most opponents, I am at the skill level where I need to tone down my lists/units and my opponents need to bring out their competitive ones. Thus, my friends usually bring tougher lists/units against me just to have a chance at victory. Otherwise, in many cases, it can get pretty one-sided, even when I am not bringing my most optimal units.
Fragile wrote: Jy2 was there a reason you used Imotekh over a Overlord with PS/SM ?
Lightning storm is pretty cool. He's got the Phaeron rule as well (that's a requirement for the Sentrystar) but it's that 4+ Seize the Initiative that puts the fear into my opponents.
Polythemus wrote: Jy2 i have to say im pleasantly suprised to see you play something like the list you did.
Where are the rules for the pylons and necron fortification to be found?
Thanks.
You can find them in Imperial Armour 12: The Fall of Orpheus.
Sasori wrote: Jy2, great battle report. Glad to see Maynarkh represented!
By the way, I don't know if this was an accident or not, but Maynarkh Warrior squad minimum is actually 10 models, instead of five.
It was my mistake. I didn't realize it (first time trying out Maynark) until someone pointed it to me on the forums after my battle.
And that is why it is important to experiment with stuff. Not only do you get a feel for the newer units, but you will learn from your mistakes as well, especially when you take it to a public forum.
skoffs wrote: Jy2, this was utterly brilliant.
And to think, some people think playing it with the conservative RAI interpretation is handicapping yourself.
I'm preeeeeetty certain we just saw evidence to the contrary, above.
You absolutely need to try at least two more games with the SentryStar so everyone can see how it works.
Preferably at lower points and against other armies.
Yeah, I agree. Even the toned-down version of the sentrystar is quite strong. True RAW for the sentry pylons is just broken.
skoffs wrote: Jy2, this was utterly brilliant.
And to think, some people think playing it with the conservative RAI interpretation is handicapping yourself.
I'm preeeeeetty certain we just saw evidence to the contrary, above.
You absolutely need to try at least two more games with the SentryStar so everyone can see how it works.
Preferably at lower points and against other armies.
JY2 did not play it according to the conservative RAI interpretation. He played it according to a custom power level edit (treat the Focused Death Ray as a Death Ray scoring 2 hits instead of 1 hit). There is nothing wrong with playing it according to a power level edit. TOs sometimes implement power-level edits. But the type of rules intervention implemented here should not be confused as a RAI one.
A conservative RAI approach would be to play it with the Sentry Pylons unable to be granted relentless. Artillery gained the ability to be granted relentless in the move from 6th edition to 7th edition. Sentry pylons have existed for a while and have not proven to be an issue until 7th edition.
So in the above game, the pylon star would have successfully deep struck into the backfield and have been required to endure 1 full round of counter attacks AND repositioning from the opponent before being able to do anything. Now answer, how effective is this deathstar without relentless? Not very.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/07 21:17:42
2014/11/07 21:44:53
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
col_impact wrote: A conservative RAI approach would be to play it with the Sentry Pylons unable to be granted relentless. Artillery gained the ability to be granted relentless in the move from 6th edition to 7th edition. Sentry pylons have existed for a while and have not proven to be an issue until 7th edition.
So? It was a 7ed game and he followed 7ed rules. Do you also disallow ghost arks and barges from using the jink rule because they were made in 5ed?
2014/11/07 21:52:26
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
col_impact wrote: A conservative RAI approach would be to play it with the Sentry Pylons unable to be granted relentless. Artillery gained the ability to be granted relentless in the move from 6th edition to 7th edition. Sentry pylons have existed for a while and have not proven to be an issue until 7th edition.
So? It was a 7ed game and he followed 7ed rules. Do you also disallow ghost arks and barges from using the jink rule because they were made in 5ed?
I am not advocating anything except people use the correct terminology for what fixes they choose to apply to the rules.
I am fine with people playing it out exactly per RAW or implementing power level edits (as JY2 did here) or taking a conservative RAI approach that keeps the Sentry Pylons from being granted relentless. All are possible approaches for players and TOs to take.
Just be clear with what you are doing.
2014/11/07 21:54:09
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
col_impact wrote: A conservative RAI approach would be to play it with the Sentry Pylons unable to be granted relentless. Artillery gained the ability to be granted relentless in the move from 6th edition to 7th edition. Sentry pylons have existed for a while and have not proven to be an issue until 7th edition.
So? It was a 7ed game and he followed 7ed rules. Do you also disallow ghost arks and barges from using the jink rule because they were made in 5ed?
I am not advocating anything except people use the correct terminology for what fixes they choose to apply to the rules.
I am fine with people playing it out exactly per RAW or implementing power level edits (as JY2 did here) or taking a conservative RAI approach that keeps the Sentry Pylons from being granted relentless. All are possible approaches for players and TOs to take.
Just be clear with what you are doing.
\
I'm going to debate you on this in the tactica forum (since its also going there and it would be rude to argue this in someone else's thread) but the point is them getting relentless is RAI.
2014/11/08 16:32:00
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
skoffs wrote: Jy2, this was utterly brilliant.
And to think, some people think playing it with the conservative RAI interpretation is handicapping yourself.
I'm preeeeeetty certain we just saw evidence to the contrary, above.
You absolutely need to try at least two more games with the SentryStar so everyone can see how it works.
Preferably at lower points and against other armies.
JY2 did not play it according to the conservative RAI interpretation. He played it according to a custom power level edit (treat the Focused Death Ray as a Death Ray scoring 2 hits instead of 1 hit). There is nothing wrong with playing it according to a power level edit. TOs sometimes implement power-level edits. But the type of rules intervention implemented here should not be confused as a RAI one.
A conservative RAI approach would be to play it with the Sentry Pylons unable to be granted relentless. Artillery gained the ability to be granted relentless in the move from 6th edition to 7th edition. Sentry pylons have existed for a while and have not proven to be an issue until 7th edition.
So in the above game, the pylon star would have successfully deep struck into the backfield and have been required to endure 1 full round of counter attacks AND repositioning from the opponent before being able to do anything. Now answer, how effective is this deathstar without relentless? Not very.
RAI is often a tool used as an excuse to justify a power level edit (up or down) of any particular rule. But there's no way to really prove it one way or another. It is all a matter of intepretation and looking at other similar rules for precedence. As such, I don't bring RAI into my arguments usually (and I didn't in this case). I just said straight-up that I was playing with a more conservative and toned-down version of the unit, as I can't really divine the intents of the writers nor their competency in rules-writing.
It's one of the lesser known "super" deathstars in the game currently, and it is the duty of the Necron player to make it more feared in competitive play.
So I'm playing with some ideas for a 2000 and 1850 version of the SentryStar, but I'm not sure what direction I want to take it in.
I'd post it, but I don't want to hijack your thread.
So instead, I'll just ask: if you had to reduce your above 3k list down, what secondary focus would you have for the army? Scarab Farm? More firepower? More mobility? (eg. Veil-tek + Immortals/Tomb Blades/Transports/etc.)
Also, would SentryStar even work at less than 1850, or would the price of the deathstar itself render the rest of the army too weak?
2014/11/09 15:31:05
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
skoffs wrote: So I'm playing with some ideas for a 2000 and 1850 version of the SentryStar, but I'm not sure what direction I want to take it in.
I'd post it, but I don't want to hijack your thread.
So instead, I'll just ask: if you had to reduce your above 3k list down, what secondary focus would you have for the army? Scarab Farm? More firepower? More mobility? (eg. Veil-tek + Immortals/Tomb Blades/Transports/etc.)
Also, would SentryStar even work at less than 1850, or would the price of the deathstar itself render the rest of the army too weak?
Personally, I'd go for balance and mobility. The usual Necrons suspects work with any build - warriors in night scythes (or ghost ark) and annihilation barges. Throw in some haywire-teks to go with those warriors as well. If you can afford to fit in a scarab-farm as well, fine. But make sure you've got your foundation covered, which are the troops and some mobility. Oftentimes, I don't recommend a 2nd deathstar in the smaller games (i.e. less than 2K) because it really unbalances your army, but a mini-scarab farm (i.e. scarabs and only 1 unit of 3 spiders) should be ok.
I also like to consider Tomb Blades as cheap, fast units to complement the large, expensive deathstar.
This is probably what I would run at 1850 (assuming self-allying allowed):
Imotekh
Obyron
3x Storm-teks
5x Warriors - Ghost Ark
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
It can work at under 1850. My normal rule of rule of thumb is that no deathstar should be more than 50% of the army. Probably the very minimum I would go is at 1700. At any lower points levels, you really can't have a balanced army to support the deathstar.
Also, you can consider subbing out Imotekh for a Phaeron Overlord if you have to to bring the cost of the deathstar down if you really want to use it in smaller games.
Another great report, man. Thanks for busting out those unusual units that we don't often get to see on the tabletop! That really is a sick deathstar unit, kudos.
2014/11/10 03:30:52
Subject: 3K Unconventional Necrons with Forgeworld vs Competitive Tau (Battle report completed)
jy2 wrote: Also, you can consider subbing out Imotekh for a Phaeron Overlord if you have to to bring the cost of the deathstar down if you really want to use it in smaller games.
Yeah, I was initially thinking of using a generic Overlord instead to save on points, but that whole seize-on-a-4+ thing is REALLY tactically valuable with the SentryStar if the entire point of the deathstar is to deliver a devastating alpha strike before your opponent even has a chance to do anything.
(plus, almost the entire army getting a 3+ cover save is pretty nice, too. And the chance of a lightning strike or two)
But yes, you're right: focus on strong/reliable core before adding bells and whistles. Good advice.
I might consider switching out an Annihilation Barge for a unit of Scarabs if I need to tie something up, but overall what you posted was similar enough to what I was thinking.
How vital are the Void Shields, though? Are they there just in case you're not able to get turn 1 and need to keep the SentryStar protected?
(and the Pylons probably wouldn't need IWND, right?)
)
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