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Running a IG/IQ list with the following, looking for input for what 2 lemun russes will cover my weak-points.

CCS - Plasma - Chimera
Vets - x2 metla - taurox x2
Wyvern
Armored Sentinels (autocannon) x2
Vendetta
Coteaz + other inquisitors
Psyammo Razorback x2
Heavy flamer options for everything.
All the henchmen (usually run acolyte x2 + a psyker for warp dice)

I am split on the options for all... I feel I need some hard hitters to deal with armor before my vets can reach them. I am thinking of the following atm.

Battle Tank = 150 points for a massive range str 8 large blast... but dosent help with long range anti-tank options
Executioner with PC = 185 points... 5 tempaltes potential for a lot of hurt, can possibly give it divination to reduce overheats.
Demonlisher = 170 pts... str 10 ap 2, but the 24" range. May actually be a benefit as it will draw fire from most things.

Or should I go the FW route and get a Destroyer Tank Hunter and Thunderer Siege Tank?

My vote is for vanquishers with a hull lascannon and plasma cannon sponsons. Can take out heavy armor with the vanq cannon and lascannon and if there's light armor or infantry the plasma cannons will do some serious damage. All the russes weapons are ap2 so nothing gets an armor save and all its shots have the chance to outright blow a vehicle up.

Vanquishers are nifty, Executioners are comically overpowered but you have to be ready for that Get's Hot.

Demolishers are...meh. I loved them pre-lumbering behemoth nerf, but now that ordnance shot forcing snap fires for the other weapons sorta makes it not worth it.

Russes are meant to be badass armored, slow-moving, bunkers of destruction - demolishers negate that.

For executioners outside Pask squad, have some enginseers nearby

- I would have some cheap psykers near the executioner if I end up using it.

-A vanquisher seems like a option, but with its 1 shot, it would also need psyker support to pull it off no?

- Engiseers, how well do they work in a semi-mobile mech force? They are a little low on their mobility.

*I am essentially imaging 3 henchmen (1 psyker) and a engiseer just huddled behind these tanks walking forward with it.


Are Thunderer Siege Tanks worth noting given their price drop vs the demolisher?

 hazal wrote:
- I would have some cheap psykers near the executioner if I end up using it.

-A vanquisher seems like a option, but with its 1 shot, it would also need psyker support to pull it off no?

- Engiseers, how well do they work in a semi-mobile mech force? They are a little low on their mobility.

*I am essentially imaging 3 henchmen (1 psyker) and a engiseer just huddled behind these tanks walking forward with it.


Are Thunderer Siege Tanks worth noting given their price drop vs the demolisher?

Well the vanquisher should be equipped with a hull lascannon as I mentioned so statistically 1 of those weapons will hit since its a 50/50 with bs3. But I still find good use with it. Also the plasma sponsons really help with elite infantry.

Also the tech priests would be fine. A russ can only ever move 6" unless it's a tank commander using the extra move order but that sacrifices shooting. So the tech prieat would just move 6" right up behind the russes

Why not Pask?

Since the new damage chart came in with 7th ed I don't rate the vanquisher at all any more. 50/50 to hit, then you will probably get a pen off but the fact that you have to roll a 6 to destroy a vehicle out right is really bad for our codex tank hunter. We have tanks thay can strip hp off better and faster.

Useless Sidekick wrote:
Since the new damage chart came in with 7th ed I don't rate the vanquisher at all any more. 50/50 to hit, then you will probably get a pen off but the fact that you have to roll a 6 to destroy a vehicle out right is really bad for our codex tank hunter. We have tanks thay can strip hp off better and faster.

Such as? (Aside from the pask punisher, which you can only have one of in an army).

Punisher Pask w/ Las and Meltas, and a Executioner with Las and Plasma Cannons.
-or-
LRBT Naked. LRD Naked.

LRV is worthless without tank commander.

Actually in a pask squadron, a LRV is better than without

Hookay so here is my decision for my army.

Executioner with Plasma Sides (make most of the heavy)
Thunderer (I know its cheating, but its also not heavy) or a Demo Russ
*Engiseer to follow behind to either repair the executioner or give the thunderer PotMS for a 36" threat range.

If I get a third tank it will deff be a Punisher with HBs to run as a Pask when I want to run a HQ tank.

bear in mind that a thunderer has its demo cannon built into the hull, meaning unlike a demolisher that can swivel 360°, the thunderer only had a very limited firing arc.

Yepp, its basically a vindicator with AV 14. I am fine paying 30 less points for that

well for the extra points you get +1 side, +1 rear armor, swiveling turret, and the ability to purchase sponsons which may seem unnecessary until you come across a situation where it is wiser to use the sponsons instead of the main gun, like you come across a tank you can use multi meltas and lascannon on, or lets say you get weapon destroyed then its only 25% chance of losing your demolisher cannon.

 danjbrierton wrote:

-or-
LRBT Naked. LRD Naked.

LRV is worthless without tank commander.

Since when has the LRBT or the Demolisher all the sudden become good, or even a standard? This gak is news to me. LRBT is not even the cheapest variant anymore. The Demolisher's limited range and point increase has arguably made it one of the worst HS choices in the entire dex. The only tank that should be getting within 24'' of the enemy is the Pask Punisher and that is because it is nearly guaranteed to annihilate whatever its target is.

(Coming from a noob here...)

Personally I would recommend a Leman Russ Battle Tank with a Lascannon mounted on the front. The Battle cannon will knock out infantry and light vehicles, the Lascannon upgrade there specifically for vehicles.

That is the way that I have configured mine, and so far it has been effective. I also put a Heavy Stubber on top of it but that is purely personal preferance.

-Praise The Emperor-

 Cothonian wrote:
(Coming from a noob here...)

Personally I would recommend a Leman Russ Battle Tank with a Lascannon mounted on the front. The Battle cannon will knock out infantry and light vehicles, the Lascannon upgrade there specifically for vehicles.

That is the way that I have configured mine, and so far it has been effective. I also put a Heavy Stubber on top of it but that is purely personal preferance.

-Praise The Emperor-

You do know that when you fire the battle cannon you have to snap fire the rest of your guns because its ordnance right?

 ultimentra wrote:

 danjbrierton wrote:

-or-
LRBT Naked. LRD Naked.

LRV is worthless without tank commander.

Since when has the LRBT or the Demolisher all the sudden become good, or even a standard? This gak is news to me. LRBT is not even the cheapest variant anymore. The Demolisher's limited range and point increase has arguably made it one of the worst HS choices in the entire dex. The only tank that should be getting within 24'' of the enemy is the Pask Punisher and that is because it is nearly guaranteed to annihilate whatever its target is.

Because LRBTs for example still rock for non-tank commander choices, while not necessarily being THE best like they used to be. Think about it. 150 points. 72". S8 AP3 pie plate that rolls 2D6 armor pen and picks the highest. A big blast whose strength doesnt get halved if the central hole lands off an enemy vehicle's hull, like it used to back in 5th. This is a good all rounder tank you cant really go wrong with. Saying "it sucks" because you cant make good use of the secondary weapons is foolish. The reason why most other LR variants can make good use of their secondaries is because their primary weapon isnt as killy + long ranged as the battle cannon. GW knows their shizz when they wrote the new ordnance rules. It's called balance (though they did mess up terribad on the Valkyrie's hellstrike missiles)

Demolisher ups the S8 to 10, lowers the AP to 2 (makes a huge difference), gains +1 rear AV, but drastically lowers the range. 170 points, yeah, its overpriced, but since we lost the Medusa (inb4 hurr forgeworld/allies), I say the cannon is still useful for an IG army. Goes well as secondary tank for the minimum Paskisher squad.

I know people hate the demolisher but i love it. It's a great terror weapon and running it up the field near pask (separate unit) gives the enemy a very difficult choice to make. I use this instead of a vanquisher.
And I know everyone thinks it's wrong but I do put sponsons on my lrbt and demolishers if I have some spare points. Killing 2 spacemarines with snapshots isn't that hard to earn your points back and it might just save your main cannon from being destroyed.

Useless Sidekick wrote:
I know people hate the demolisher but i love it. It's a great terror weapon and running it up the field near pask (separate unit) gives the enemy a very difficult choice to make. I use this instead of a vanquisher.
And I know everyone thinks it's wrong but I do put sponsons on my lrbt and demolishers if I have some spare points. Killing 2 spacemarines with snapshots isn't that hard to earn your points back and it might just save your main cannon from being destroyed.

Which sponson/hull weapon kills reliably 2 SM with snap shot? Because non-snap-shooting that will be the best MEQ hunter on a LR ever.

 Sir Arun wrote:
well for the extra points you get +1 side, +1 rear armor, swiveling turret, and the ability to purchase sponsons which may seem unnecessary until you come across a situation where it is wiser to use the sponsons instead of the main gun, like you come across a tank you can use multi meltas and lascannon on, or lets say you get weapon destroyed then its only 25% chance of losing your demolisher cannon.

Had to double check but the Thunderer has the same side and rear armor (13 and 11) and can move 6" more.

30 points (25 if both take dozer blades) worth it for swiveling turret and side sponsons?

Must have been the latest IA update, then. Because its original version had 14/12/10 but that was probably a long time ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hazal wrote:
30 points (25 if both take dozer blades) worth it for swiveling turret and side sponsons?

and your opponent not whining that you are using a FW model

I usually run an eradicator with HBs on the side, and a laz cannon on the front for the same points as a bare LRBT.
I feel the eradicator is overlooked and underrated and people just go for a punisher.
But at S6 AP4 ignores cover large blast it instakills any non space marine troop and without having to roll for hits like a punisher at BS3, armour saves or cover saves.
Then you have the Extra 6 S5 AP4 shots adding to the anti infantry firepower, and if there aren't any suitable targets it can maybe knock of a hull point, or pen and maybe blow up a tank.
However, if you play a lot of marines you shouldn't bother.
Also, I haven't played guard long enough to be considered a veteran, so I am probably wrong.
And remember kids, always trust the emperor, he loves you too.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I usually run an eradicator with HBs on the side, and a laz cannon on the front for the same points as a bare LRBT.
I feel the eradicator is overlooked and underrated and people just go for a punisher.
But at S6 AP4 ignores cover large blast it instakills any non space marine troop and without having to roll for hits like a punisher at BS3, armour saves or cover saves.
Then you have the Extra 6 S5 AP4 shots adding to the anti infantry firepower, and if there aren't any suitable targets it can maybe knock of a hull point, or pen and maybe blow up a tank.
However, if you play a lot of marines you shouldn't bother.
Also, I haven't played guard long enough to be considered a veteran, so I am probably wrong.
And remember kids, always trust the emperor, he loves you too.

Large blast can scatter off your target much easier than missing with a gatling cannon. At least I'm much more unlucky with scatter than with to hit rolls.

Yea the main problem with the Eradicator is that blast scatter, you could run Pask to get a re-roll on that blast but the problem is that the Pask Punisher just so incredibly outperforms any thing else in the dex for anti-infantry that it doesn't make sense to bring the Eradicator.

I like to opt for a Hellhound instead of the Eradicator.

Zsolt wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I usually run an eradicator with HBs on the side, and a laz cannon on the front for the same points as a bare LRBT.
I feel the eradicator is overlooked and underrated and people just go for a punisher.
But at S6 AP4 ignores cover large blast it instakills any non space marine troop and without having to roll for hits like a punisher at BS3, armour saves or cover saves.
Then you have the Extra 6 S5 AP4 shots adding to the anti infantry firepower, and if there aren't any suitable targets it can maybe knock of a hull point, or pen and maybe blow up a tank.
However, if you play a lot of marines you shouldn't bother.
Also, I haven't played guard long enough to be considered a veteran, so I am probably wrong.
And remember kids, always trust the emperor, he loves you too.

Large blast can scatter off your target much easier than missing with a gatling cannon. At list I'm much more unlucky with scatter than with to hit rolls.

And gatling also performs waaaaay better against monstrous creatures and light vehicles.

 Sir Arun wrote:

And gatling also performs waaaaay better against monstrous creatures and light vehicles.

Up to AV11, and Twhatever.

 danjbrierton wrote:
Punisher Pask

Zsolt wrote:

Useless Sidekick wrote:
I know people hate the demolisher but i love it. It's a great terror weapon and running it up the field near pask (separate unit) gives the enemy a very difficult choice to make. I use this instead of a vanquisher.
And I know everyone thinks it's wrong but I do put sponsons on my lrbt and demolishers if I have some spare points. Killing 2 spacemarines with snapshots isn't that hard to earn your points back and it might just save your main cannon from being destroyed.

Which sponson/hull weapon kills reliably 2 SM with snap shot? Because non-snap-shooting that will be the best MEQ hunter on a LR ever.

Non are reliable but it's 9 snap shots from a bolter boat battle tank. This over 3-4 turns can earn the points for the sponsons back.
and if I get a weapon destroyed result its only got a 1 in 4 chance of my battle cannon being destroyed.