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Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

I've read that article of yours, and thought it much better than the "official" version.

Perhaps "counts-as" could be suggested in a softer way. More distinct High and Wood elf units make sense, based entirely on the Tolkien-esque archetypes that the whole industry is built on.

Heavily armoured "inhuman" warriors have also been a fantasy staple (especially in art) for 40-odd years now. It's not like Lenton created that trope...

But properly-balanced "unofficial" lists would be great as well.

   
Made in au
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Australia

 Azazelx wrote:
I know Mantic want KoW to be it's own game and not just ProxyHammer, but more counts-as options for Chaos Warriors and Beastmen players than "just use the Orc list" for both. (or KoM for Chaos) will get more players joining in.

For the Beastmen I've long said that they could be represented by rules for a human or near-human faction that uses animal and monster totems. Tzeentchgors would be warriors emulating the Cygor-equivalent, Khornegors would emulate the Ghorgon-equivalent, things like that.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Baragash wrote:
 TheAuldGrump wrote:
 Baragash wrote:
 Daedleh wrote:
I'm a little frustrated by how long warpath is taking but I think Mantic are still trying to make multibasing work. I can only guess how successful that's been.


Multi-basing is not really an issue, and has/is going to be written in such a way that players can take it or leave it.

KoW still isn't finished yet and that's just tweaks to an existing game, so TBH anyone getting frustrated that WP hasn't been finished in the same time frame isn't being realistic.
I very much beg to differ, but only in regards to the multi-basing.

Multi-basing is a huge issue - and if the game tries to force it then it will not be played. Even as an option it seems unwieldy and limiting.


The context of my comment was that "multi-basing is not an issue holding up the development of Warpath".
Ah, thank you for the clarification.

I could see them spending years trying to make the multi-basing palatable.... And failing.

The only way that I could see it working is for weapons teams - mortars, machine guns, etc..

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

I'm just hoping for more kingdoms of men options so I can play around with my kings of war samurai idea. Then in the future I will pick up a more fantasy kow army to appose them. Possibly undead.



 
   
Made in us
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

We are getting a fluff- less rule book- Ronnie even mentioned it.

That's the battle book, the softcover that I'm assuming will be more small and compact, like the one in the starter set, that's just nothing but rules, right?

Here's to hoping for as many new and distinct army/ unit choices as the rules committee has time to test, since the bulk of those could probably then end up pulling double duty as encounters in Dungeon Saga.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Correct and correct.

We're starting on the new units now and arguing with Mantic over how many we're allowed to do
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





@Daedleh
So does this mean we might start getting a few "big" units for the various armies?

While I'd hate for Kow to go in the ALL BIG ALL DAY SWEATY direction that Warhammer seems to be going, KoW really needs some large impressive centerpieces to field.

A mass battle fantasy game just doesn't feel the same without them.

   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





I don't know yet.

If you mean big monsters then these are probably going to be for a supplement rather than in the core rules. If you mean big units then we've not really started locking down new units yet. I am determined to see Ogre hordes in the game though
   
Made in au
Screaming Shining Spear





Adelaide, Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_6ngCHsKm8&list=UU1kZj3a75YlHhiHR7pLykFg

Ronnie explaining things a bit more

   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






More than happy to see an update to the weaker elements of the largely excellent ruleset, but do not see why this requires a Kickstarter. I understand the costs that miniature production incur, but an update (with a lot of the work seemingly done gratis by the rules committee) and translation should really be paid for in house.

My 40K and assorted projects: Genestealer Cult: October 15th http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1290/583755.page#8965486
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Thanks for linking that NT, so for the work-blocked and those who haven't watched the video heres a rough breakdown.

The main funding is for the core rulebook and mini gamer version, funding goal not mentioned.

Any additional funding will go towards:
  • Plastic tokens, wound markers and possibly Apps.

  • New units, at least 1 or 2 per faction (balanced with existing units), possibility for new heroes as well.

  • Resin or Metal hero characters/units.

  • Forces or the abyss army.

  • And more considering how far the funding goes.


  • The base pledges are:
  • $50 (£35) for the two rulebooks.

  • $100 (£60) for an army + Rulebooks(?).

  • $1 for late pleading/pledge manager access


  • Sounds pretty good to me.



    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/05 18:37:40


     
       
    Made in gb
    Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






    Does this mean that between KOW Kickstarters 1.0 and 2.0 the only non KS funded KOW releases have been Sveri Egilax and Arhak Soulbinder?

    My 40K and assorted projects: Genestealer Cult: October 15th http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1290/583755.page#8965486
     
       
    Made in us
    Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





    California the Southern

    Weren't there some dwarf units that came about outside of the KS?

    The spear wielding ones? Maybe a few others?

    Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
    Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran





    Were the twilight Kin conversions part of the last KS?

    (I hope no-one paid for those during the KS at least)

       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    Well, if GW's Fantasy End Times is truly ending WFB, and GW is going "Fantasy Skirmish" in summer 2015, it sure wouldn't hurt a rival company to have a shiny new square-bases mass battles fantasy game in a spanking new edition around, which they could pitch to to disgruntled WFB-players (the three that are left) in case they don't want to go "skirmish".
       
    Made in gb
    Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






    @Highlord Tamburlaine: Yes the Bulwarkers, good call. I think that is it though, and then they are hybrids of the old plastics with metal spears/shields

    @Rolt: The Twilight Kin were pre KS 1.0.

    Am very interested to see how a primarily rules, rather than miniature, driven KS does for Mantic. Then again if enough people back it will become about miniatures very quickly, I have seen a lot of interest in the Abyssal/Nature armies as they offer something very different from WFB.

    My 40K and assorted projects: Genestealer Cult: October 15th http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1290/583755.page#8965486
     
       
    Made in ca
    Plastictrees





    Calgary, Alberta, Canada

    This should be fun. Which models will have awful concepts and awful models? Which will have surprisingly impressive sculpts that somehow end up as uninteresting models? Which models will be poorly translated in to a different material half way through production?
    Only time will tell!
       
    Made in us
    Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






    Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

    Yeah, I'm in the boat of if it's not hard plastic I'm not interested in models from Mantic. That said $50 for the core rulebook and travel version at discount isn't very low cost. Just have to wait and see if I'm interested.

    Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

    They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
       
    Made in gb
    Novice Knight Errant Pilot






     plastictrees wrote:
    This should be fun. Which models will have awful concepts and awful models? Which will have surprisingly impressive sculpts that somehow end up as uninteresting models? Which models will be poorly translated in to a different material half way through production?
    Only time will tell!


    None I hope! Mantic have definitely been improving with each ks.


    http://thelaughterofthedamned.blogspot.co.uk/
     
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    WFB going's skirmish scale???

    When did this happen or whats the rumors on this (got a link?), I don't play any GW games currently so I don't really keep up to date with their news.


     AlexHolker wrote:
     Azazelx wrote:
    I know Mantic want KoW to be it's own game and not just ProxyHammer, but more counts-as options for Chaos Warriors and Beastmen players than "just use the Orc list" for both. (or KoM for Chaos) will get more players joining in.

    For the Beastmen I've long said that they could be represented by rules for a human or near-human faction that uses animal and monster totems. Tzeentchgors would be warriors emulating the Cygor-equivalent, Khornegors would emulate the Ghorgon-equivalent, things like that.

    Personally while I fully understand and even commend Mantic for not wishing to continue down the proxyhammer route, I don't see why they just don't create a catch-all beastmen faction in the game.
    Lets say one army that has ratmen, kobolds, gnolls, lizardmen and anything else all under one banner, a bestman empire faction if you will. Mantic can create a unified theme and mini range for the
    official release, while at the same time the army list itself can be created with enough generic unit types and heroes (similar to the armies of man list) so that anyone not wishing to use Mantic minis can proxy with ease.

    Mantic and Kow players get to have their own original take on a Empire of Beastmen (and ladies ) army with a full range of minis, the mountain of players asking for Mantic made skaven and lizardmen get their new army,
    and everyone else gets a easy to use list to transfer their Skaven/Lizardmen/what-ever army under the KoW ruleset. Everyone wins.

    Not to mention this could be a golden opportunity for Mantic to show off their KoW universe by creating a unique looking faction, just imagine what could be done if Mantic forgo the usual beastman
    troupes and focused instead on creating something the rest of the market isn't catering towards, civilized and armored lizardmen for example.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/05 21:24:55


     
       
    Made in gb
    Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





    Melbourne

    http://manticblog.com/2014/11/05/kings-of-war-2nd-edition-whats-going-to-change/

    Kings of War 2nd Edition: What’s going to change?

    So! The cat’s out of the bag and we know that the Kings of War 2nd edition hardback rulebook is on its way! For those of you who don’t know me, I’m Nick Williams (Daedle on the forums) and I’m part of the team of designers working on 2nd ed with Alessio. We’re very pleased with what we’ve put together – an excellent and exciting evolution of the first edition which adds some real character to the fantastic rules.

    I’m sure the big question from most people is: “what’s going to change?” One of our main aims is to create a real, breathing and living world for players to wage their war in, but what about the actual gameplay itself?

    The biggest change is to the game balance.

    We are taking the opportunity to review all of the units in the game and adjust their points cost (and in some situations their stats). Amongst others, cavalry will generally go up in cost while ranged infantry units will come down in cost. There will be lots and lots of little tweaks to allow people to create a huge variety of armies without worrying about “competitiveness”. That’s not to say that you can’t tweak your army list to better suit your tactics, but we want to get to the stage where you never pick one unit over the other because it’s simply better and cheaper.

    As part of this, we’re looking at addressing the balance between ranged infantry and artillery. Ranged infantry isn’t so good in the current edition, and it’s often more expensive than the melee equivalent. By contrast, artillery can be absolutely devastating when taken in large numbers. We’ve decreased the amount of damage that artillery can do and we’ve improved ranged infantry. Now ranged infantry will do reliable small chunks of damage (generally not more than 1-2 points of damage per turn) while artillery will still do considerable, but not unit killing, hits. Of course, melee damage will always trump damage done from afar so you will need some melee units to protect your ranged ones!

    Line of sight is changing. At the moment we use True Line of Sight – meaning that if your model can physically “see” another model then it can see it in-game. While this is a great idea on the surface, when there’s a huge range of manufacturers and scenic basing being used in Kings of War then it can really cause problems. A player using one manufacturer for their Kingdoms of Men army might be able to see over their opponent’s human models from a different manufacturer.

    The new LOS system is quite simple; units are given a height and you can see or be seen over any units which are smaller than you. Any unit which has an equal or greater height will block LOS. Infantry will be height 1, cavalry and large infantry will be height 2 and so on. This won’t have any impact on how people mostly play the game but it will allow you to go hog wild with modelling and not worry about any advantages or disadvantages you might get in game.

    ‘Disrupted’ currently has two meanings in the game – a modifier to hit when you’re charging through terrain and when a unit is charged and cannot shoot in the next turn. We’re calling the second effect (charged and can’t shoot) ‘Disordered’. This will have a bigger impact on the game since it’s not just ranged units which can become Disordered. Cavalry will be using the new Thunderous Charge special rule instead of Crushing Strength:

    All melee hits inflicted by the unit have a +n modifier when rolling to damage. This is in addition to the units’ Crushing Strength (if any); however the unit loses this bonus when Disordered.

    This means that Cavalry will have a devastating first charge, but when they get bogged down in a grinding melee then they will lose a lot of their hitting power. We’ve found that this really gives cavalry more character and emphasizes them as linebreakers. Cavalry heavy armies will still be perfectly playable of course, but you’ll need to learn to avoid protracted fights.

    There are lots of little tweaks here and there throughout the game and plenty of really cool additions (more spells and scenarios anyone?) but we don’t want to give everything away right now! We’re going to be running extensive public beta testing in the coming months to make sure that we get the balance correct and there isn’t anything we’ve overlooked.

    Rest assured though that the heart and soul of Kings of War is very much unchanged. The game is still extremely fun, simple to learn, places a huge emphasis on tactics and it will of course be free to download along with all of the army lists from the Mantic website. We’ll do a one or two page summary of the changes for people who have the existing rulebook, though you may need to also print off your updated army list!

    I hope that everyone does back the rulebook Kickstarter because the more funding we get through it, the more we can build up the background. If the funding goes absolutely wild then we may see some new models created (I believe some abyssal creatures are simply begging for models!) but the emphasis is definitely going to be on creating an amazing 2nd edition that drips character from every single page.

    The new Kings of War Kickstarter begins next week! Let us know what you are looking forward to in the comments below, what army you will be playing and what you are hoping will be updated. To keep up to date with the launch of the Kings of War Kickstarter make sure you’re signed up to our newsletter, and give the Mantic Facebook page a like for daily updates!

    Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
    "The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch."
    Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
    Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!" 
       
    Made in us
    Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





    California the Southern

     Rolt wrote:


    Not to mention this could be a golden opportunity for Mantic to show of their KoW universe by creating a unique looking faction for KoW, just imagine what could be done if Mantic forgo the usual beastman troupes and focused instead on creating something the rest of the market isn't catering towards, civilized and armored lizardmen for example.



    Somebody else gets it! Praise the Gods!

    How I've longed for more armored (and civilized) reptiles!

    I'd love to see a catch- all humanoid army that I can dump all my various animal people into. I'm sure Mantic is aware of the demand, but they should also know that by releasing those new armies we've all got yet another range of figures to collect!

    On a skirmish scale ShadowSea already does this to a degree (reptiles of all sorts with one faction, animal people of various sorts with another) and I can proxy in whatever fits within the game's parameters with no hassle (and most of my various races are painted in corresponding colors for just that purpose).

    Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
    Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
       
    Made in gb
    Incorporating Wet-Blending





    Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

    I really like the new Los rules so much better than using tlos.

    I would like mantic to make a truley unique army for their games too.



     
       
    Made in au
    Incorporating Wet-Blending






    Australia

     Rolt wrote:
    Personally while I fully understand and even commend Mantic for not wishing to continue down the proxyhammer route, I don't see why they just don't create a catch-all beastmen faction in the game.
    Lets say one army that has ratmen, kobolds, gnolls, lizardmen and anything else all under one banner, a bestman empire faction if you will. Mantic can create a unified theme and mini range for the official release, while at the same time the army list itself can be created with enough generic unit types and heroes (similar to the armies of man list) so that anyone not wishing to use Mantic minis can proxy with ease.

    There is no such thing as "beastmen", only an arbitrarily large number of subraces with no overlap. If a specific type of beastman brings more to the table than the others you might be able justify making an army for that subrace and that subrace alone, but trying to make beastmen in general is about as productive as trying to fill a bottomless pit. You could bankrupt yourself making batmen, catmen, ratmen, lizardmen, hyenamen, goatmen, rhinomen and elephantmen and you'd still get some guy saying he wanted fishmen.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/05 23:25:25


    "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
    -C.S. Lewis 
       
    Made in us
    Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





    Va

    I want fish men...

    Check out my Deadzone/40k/necromunda blog here! 
       
    Made in au
    Incorporating Wet-Blending






    Australia

     squall018 wrote:
    I want fish men...

    Case in point. Mantic should be looking for concepts where there are economies of scale to be exploited, where someone else hasn't already exploited the economies of scale. Beastmen fail at the former because there is no particular keystone that you should produce en masse in HIPS like Skinks and Saurus are for Lizardmen, or Tactical Squads and Rhinos are for Space Marines; pseudohistorical men fail at the latter because trying to beat the historicals manufacturers at their own game is just burning money.

    "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
    -C.S. Lewis 
       
    Made in us
    Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





    Va

    I was just joking around, but I get what you're saying. That being said, it doesn't sound like mantic is really trying to do any new races or armies with this one.

    Check out my Deadzone/40k/necromunda blog here! 
       
    Made in gb
    Incorporating Wet-Blending





    Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

    I would be interested in Fish men. Its something I don't think anyone else has done and they would almost certainly have to use tridents.



     
       
    Made in si
    Foxy Wildborne







    I have 4 WHFB armies that I haven't touched in two editions, no plans to buy any of Mantic's. I'd consider getting the book if I could play all my fancy models in KoW but it sounds like that's not Mantic's schtick anymore?

    The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
       
    Made in gb
    Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





    Melbourne

     lord_blackfang wrote:
    I have 4 WHFB armies that I haven't touched in two editions, no plans to buy any of Mantic's. I'd consider getting the book if I could play all my fancy models in KoW but it sounds like that's not Mantic's schtick anymore?


    I assume these are races without direct analogues?

    There is a desire amongst the rules committee to produce proxyhammer lists, but of course they wouldn't be part of the rulebook (likely just a downloadable resource). If and when desire becomes action is very much up in the air though.

    Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
    "The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch."
    Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
    Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!" 
       
     
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