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Horus - Charisma, pride and ability to inspire
Leman Russ - Savagery borderline animalistic
Fulgrim - Perfection and appreciation of arts
Vulkan - Humanity and perpetual
Roboute Guilliman - Civility and governance
Magnus the Red - Thirst for knowledge
Sanguinius - Beauty and compassion
Lion El'Jonson - Strategy and analytical
Lorgar - Faith and hope
Konrad Curze - Cruelty
Angron - Anger and wrath
Corvus Corax - Justice
Alpharius Omegon - Secrecy and misdirection
Rogal Dorn - Command/Structure
Jaghatai Khan - Illusiveness and freedom
Perturabo - Intellectual and sense of creation
Ferrus Manus – Stubbornness and brashness
Mortarion - Endurance and resilience

This is a great quote from Angron. Clearly shows how his loyalty is not to Horus, or ever was to the Emperor, but was to the slaves/gladiators he escaped with back on his own planet. I think this shows that Loyalty was his primary characteristic, and the anger comes from what he feels is the betrayal by the Emperor and of course the Nails.

"Let history mark my words well, for I care nothing about who sits proud on the Throne of Terra when the last day dawns. Horus is a fine commander, but that’s the limit of my admiration for that arrogant, preening bastard. I joined his rebellion because I can tolerate him easier than I can endure the abomination that names himself Master of Mankind. You want the truth of my life and death? I am Angron, the Eater of Worlds, and I am already dead. I died over a hundred years ago, in the mountains north of the city that enslaved me. I died after Desh’elika."
—Primarch Angron talking to his brother Lorgar

Nice quote indeed. It is the "ruined" nature of his life that is so compelling in terms of the narrative. What could have been will never now come to pass, and instead the universe is spoiled, corrupted...and there is only war!

I guess that's what I like about the 40k (or 30k in this case?) universe.

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:
Nice quote indeed. It is the "ruined" nature of his life that is so compelling in terms of the narrative. What could have been will never now come to pass, and instead the universe is spoiled, corrupted...and there is only war!

I guess that's what I like about the 40k (or 30k in this case?) universe.

I really hate how hopeless everything is in the 40k universe. I mean, at least do something to where a guiding light returns to the Galaxy. You can do that without ruining the grim-dark - for instance, the Primarchs return and begin leading the IoM; renovating the Byzantine beurocracies and bringing about great change to the Imperium. Meanwhile, Chaos grows stronger and 2 more Hive Fleets hit and the Necrons begin a crusade of their own to conquer the IoM. Just spitballing here.
Also, i hate how awkward and effortless and nonsensical a lot of it, At least as far as the IoM is concerned, I just wish that more effort was put into it. Like how Fulgrim failed to convert Ferrus Manus. I mean, all that he does is tell Ferrus that the Emperor betrayed them all and reveal all of Horus's plans. IRL, a perfectionist like Fulgrim would have devised an incredibly complicated plan to bring Ferrus to Horus's side. Of course, it would have failed (to match the fluff), but it still would have made more sense and been far better.
Also, I have an idea for the missing Primarchs. Maybe the Chaos Gods had corrupted them long before the Heresy, but their Legions remained pure. Big E finds out, kills 'em both (kills bodies and souls), then (after examining the Legions) folds their remaining uncorrupted Astartes into the UM.
You can assign the traits of the primarchs to literally any human being, but they weren't designed with any specific purposes aside from winning wars. Any great man has logic, anger, a measure of cruelty, organization skills, etc. so you can't just say "Emprah made deze gize so obviously he ment for dem to fulfill a spethific role and then he made bak-upz for extra lulz" Everybody is different, all souls are different, all of the Primarchs have different personalities, regardless of similarities. The Emperor had not yet ascended to Godhood when he engineered the Primarchs, so all that he had access to was a science and a modicum of Psychic energy, but he wasn't yet powerful enough to specifically engineer their personalities to match specific roles in the nascent Imperium. While each of the Primarchs has certain traits that are powerful and the Emperor happens to have these traits too, that doesn't mean they embody an aspect of the Emprah. For instance, Angron's most dominant trait (before the Nails turned him into a murderous psychopath) was Loyalty, and the Emperor expressed little, if any, loyalty to anything but Humanity as a whole and a few select individuals. Horus's most dominant trait was obviously his charisma, and the Emprah was very charismatic, but any Empire-builder would have to have a large amount of charisma. Leman Russ and Guilliman were also incredibly charismatic, except they had other character traits that were just as dominant (organization, rage). Sanguinius has a massive amount of compassion and foresight, two things which the Emperor has a severe lacking of. How can you seriously say that Sanguinius embodies any of the Emperor's traits aside from his good looks? Lorgar is extremely emotional and entirely reliant upon faith, two things which the Emperor definitely is not. Rogal Dorne, dogmatic and supremely loyal - almost like Angron before the Nails. The Lion, cold, calculating, untrusting, wrathful... he's pretty much the Emperor minus the Psychic power. Magnus is incredibly Psychically powerful, but he is basically just a Psyker Primarch, so he is 20X stronger than a normal Psyker is, just like (for a normal person)Lion is ten times smarter, Horus ten times more likable, etc. etc.
Anyways, point is that the Primarchs have dominant traits just like any human being, but that doesn't mean they embodied these traits, nor does it mean that they embody aspects of the Emperor.

While I think the primarchs reflect traits of the Emperor, I think they all had one singular purpose: to conquer the galaxy. I don't think it really fits the Emperors character to really care what happens to them after that. He'd likely have destroyed them all after bringing the galaxy to heel just like he destroyed the thunder warriors after conquering Terra. He's creating a galaxy for mankind because mankind failed to do it itself; not to have human-ish warpforged mutant primarchs ruling over a human filled galaxy.

I really hate how hopeless everything is in the 40k universe. I mean, at least do something to where a guiding light returns to the Galaxy. You can do that without ruining the grim-dark - for instance, the Primarchs return and begin leading the IoM; renovating the Byzantine beurocracies and bringing about great change to the Imperium. Meanwhile, Chaos grows stronger and 2 more Hive Fleets hit and the Necrons begin a crusade of their own to conquer the IoM. Just spitballing here.

They have that, it's called Star Wars.

 Psienesis wrote:

I really hate how hopeless everything is in the 40k universe. I mean, at least do something to where a guiding light returns to the Galaxy. You can do that without ruining the grim-dark - for instance, the Primarchs return and begin leading the IoM; renovating the Byzantine beurocracies and bringing about great change to the Imperium. Meanwhile, Chaos grows stronger and 2 more Hive Fleets hit and the Necrons begin a crusade of their own to conquer the IoM. Just spitballing here.

They have that, it's called Star Wars.

Actually Star Wars is a horrible universe to live in where most people are brain dead and have less technological innovation then the Admech and everyone's stuck in a constant cycle of self destruction as the Sith seize power, wipe out the local government and Jedi, then in turn implode and get wiped out by some surviving rebel Jedi. Ad infinitum.

Of course while in the the cycle of self destruction, silly things happen like Han Solo punching space otters.

My theory is that Angron DOESN'T in fact represent the Emperor's anger. That aspect of his personality stems from the Nails, and at what was done to him. I think he more accurately represents the Emperor's pride, or nobility. Even with the constant mind-screw provided by the Nails, he's eloquent, and an intelligent commander. His rage stems from the ways he's been mistreated. The Emperor denied him the fellowship of his friends, while allowing the other Primarchs to convert theirs into Marines. The other Primarchs look down on him, never considering his perspective.

It all comes down to his pride.

I might be stating the obvious here, but with such a number of primarchs, it's going to be pretty much impossible to actually make this idea poignant.

 Quarterdime wrote:
I might be stating the obvious here, but with such a number of primarchs, it's going to be pretty much impossible to actually make this idea poignant.

Sure. But we're on a forum discussing an imaginary universe for a tabletop miniature wargame. Clearly we don't lack for time.

In any case, I really appreciate all the responses! I certainly have been intrigued by some of the ideas, and although a couple of people have expressed the futility of such an exercise, I think it's pretty obvious that this is what the HH authors have chosen to do (or been tasked with doing). The idea of the novels is to tie together the Fluff and create a more coherent (if imaginary) universe, and this is a new enterprise--they are changing stuff up all the time, such as having The Lion "asleep in the center of the Rock" in the latest DA codex. I expect to see this trend continue, especially with the Forge World Primarch models continuing to come out.

And, with the "End Times" going on right now, there is debate raging about whether that is likely in the 40k universe. (I vote yes) So, I think it's fun to think about, as the author of the original quote clearly also does. There's always going to be some mystery and some "blank spaces" such as the two "lost" Primarchs, and that's part of the fun, but I think it's interesting to see the authors (and you guys) trying to figure out what the intended purpose or nature of these Primarchs was...if a plan existed at all.

So, thanks for the contributions!

 Inca wrote:
Angron represents his anger, but he did get a load of implants that helped send him man if I'm not mistaken, so we don't really know how angry he was supposed to be.

Magnus represents his psychic ability.

Never been sure how Lorgar fits in to this sort of theory. Perhaps it represents his vanity, which the Emperor was able to keep it check when it was his own, but not now that its manifest in another.

this is a very common misconception, angron represented brotherhood and humanity in the astartes, this can be seen in the HH FW books and the betrayer novel quite easily, had the nails not been implanted then angron would have been
a very different beast entirely, the world eaters were known (before the nails) for there brotherhood and loyalty, angron happily mingles with his legion and doesnt show favouritism to any one chapter or person (save kharn).

thats brotherhood right there.

When the sides are equal with two for each role:
russ:angron
corax:alpherous
so on you can see the pattern could we figure out roles of the los primarchs the lost and the dammed.
The lost like Magnus
The dammed?

Er, if we want to know the Emperor's intended roles for his sons, wouldn't it be better to look at the Legions before they were reunited with their Primarchs instead? Each and every one of the Legions embodied a specific aspect that the Emperor intended for them, and since all Legions embodied the original aspects of their Primarchs before they were influenced (or corrupted) by the environments they were raised in, they're a good benchmark to try and figure out what the Primarchs themselves were originally meant to be. So:

1st Legion: Be Space Marines (no specialization, literally first Space Marines Legion raised) - suggests Lion was simply meant to be a prototype/template Primarch or a pioneer. His job would have been to define what "standard" Space Marines would look like. If true, ironic considering who the "standard" SMs are now.

2nd Legion: Unknown.

3rd Legion: Heralds, role models, and cultural paragons. This suggests Fulgrim was meant to represent that element of exalted nobility that the Emperor sought to instill in his Legions to differentiate them from the largely barbaric Thunder Warriors. This role was important because it was necessary for Space Marines to be able to inspire people during peacetime instead of just being tools of war.

4th Legion: Stubborn workhorses adapted to siege warfare and attrition. This suggests Perturabo was meant to be the grinder Primarch, representing tenaciousness and efficient deployment of resources.

5th Legion: The Legion's traits were directly created by Khan himself as the Scars were raised only after Khan was found, so the best guess would be that, if Khan had grown up to be the man the emperor had wanted him to become, he would have represented the Emperor's ambition to unify all of humanity. Khan himself had acted this way on his homeworld, and had simply exported his ambition into the stars.

6th Legion: Executioners. Already pointed out from the start of this thread. The 6th was part of the secret group of three Legions raised separately for specific, more insidious purposes the Emperor had in mind. In that case, Leman Russ' original function would have been something akin to an anti-Primarch; the one Primarch equipped with the ability to take out any of the other Primarchs if needed. There were hints in earlier fluff of Russ secretly being a more powerful psyker than even Magnus but refusing to admit this to himself (which can be attributed to Fenrisian influence), making him unable to function as one.

7th Legion: This one is hard to guess, as the identity of the Legion was from the start influenced directly by Dorn himself even if they were raised before he was found. If we assume that Dorn had grown up exactly the way he was meant to, then Dorn would have been created as a taciturn defender representing the Emperor's aspect of a just and loyal protector of humanity. It's interesting that Dorn valued equality and independence, preferring allies over vassals. In many ways then, Dorn represented the Emperor's egalitarianism and what little democratic tendencies he'd had.

8th Legion: Ex-cons recruited to become police. The original Night's Children were used by the Emperor to punish breakers of his laws, so in that sense Curze becoming Space Marine Batman makes perfect sense. He was from the start intended to serve as chief policeman of the Empire, keeping vigilant watch and punishing lawbreakers with brutality. In many ways, had things gone as the Emperor had planned, Curze would probably have gone on to become the Empire's equivalent of a Chief Inquisitor in an Empire that needed no Inquisitors. Curze's precognitive powers were likely meant to function the same way precogs in Minority Report are supposed to, predicting potential crimes and internal troubles before they started. Curze then would have represented internal vigilance and the Emperor's ever-watchful gaze.

9th Legion: Not much is known about the Blood Angels before they met Sanguinius. However, from Sanguinius' own character and the close-combat inclinations of his Legion, it's kinda obvious he was meant to become the Emperor's champion, In that case, it's Sanguinius who had inherited the Emperor's highest martial qualities, or at least his individual fighting prowess.

10th Legion: Before they went nuts and started wanting to become 'bots, the Iron Hands were actually heavy line infantry specializing in concentrated firepower. In that case, it's possible that Ferus Manus was intended as a vanguard Primarch, tasked with forming and holding lines of battle. If true, he would have represented the Emperor's aspect as a steady and methodical military commander.

11th Legion: Unknown.

12th Legion: Even before they met Angron, the War Hounds had been the angriest Space Marine Legion around, so it's kinda obvious that Angron was just the Emperor's original purpose dialed all the way up to eleven. There are hints that War Hounds were meant to function partially as Commissars on the battlefield, in that they were sometimes held back partly to make sure Imperial armies wouldn't turn around and run backwards ('coz the Hounds would eat them if they did). This may also be why it was so easy for them to later turn into team-killing 'tards. In this case, Angron's purpose would have been as the personification of the Emperor's wrath, unleashed like mad dogs against those who dared piss him off.

13th Legion: Actually, there isn't even a need to study this Legion's original character to figure out that Guilliman was meant as the Emperor's chief deputy and head of military administration. His imperial-building tendencies can be ascribed to the fact that he represented the aspect of the Emperor that made him an emperor in the first place. In that sense, he was probably meant to rule as a Caesar to the Emperor's Augustus, like in the Roman Principate. Basically a co-emperor or chancellor who could be trusted to wield power on a near-equal basis.

14th Legion: Being the most resilient survivalists of all the Legions, the Dusk Raiders show that Mortarion was meant to be the one son of the Emperor who could be trusted to thrive in any environment. In that case, he actually represented the aspect of adaptability and, well, resilience. The Emperor probably intended Mortarion to go where none of his brothers could thrive and make that place his home. Militarily,he and his Legion were intended to make sure no human dominion, no matter how environmentally hostile to humanity (and even Space Marines) could ever escape the Emperor's grasp.

15th Legion: Well, we already know that Magnus inherited the Emperor's psyker powers and was meant to sit on the Golden Throne. And that's canon too. While some people seem to think that this would amount to a sort of punishment, it should be remembered that originally the Golden Throne - when it was working as intended before Magnus screwed it up - was a stable device that didn't require as much psychic effort to operate. Plus Magnus was way more powerful than Malcador and the Emperor would have completed the heavy pulling needed to prepare the Golden Throne for him. As it was originally intended, all Magnus would have had to do was sit down on that thing all day and geek out staring into his beloved Immaterium learning, probing, and understanding arcane knowledge exactly the way he'd wanted from the start. Man, he actually had a great career waiting for him if only he hadn't screwed things up for himself so badly.

16th Legion: The original Luna Wolves before they met their Primarch was an aggressive, proud, and ruthless Legion that favored strong, decisive attacks, while being cantankerous and impulsive on the field and stoically immune to distractions off it. If this is what Horus was supposed to represent before he grew up into a duplicitous diplomat, then he was originally meant to serve as a sort of anchor for his brothers, serving as a model of dignity, aggression, and stability. It is also notable that the Luna Wolves originally rejected ritualistic behavior, mysticism, and were known to be humorless. In that way, maybe Horus was originally also intended to embody the Imperial Truth and his duplicity is a reflection of the inherent hypocrisy of the doctrine itself. In that case, though, the Emperor probably never intended Horus to become a potential successor. Then he was screwing his own plans from the start by giving Horus so much favor he thought he was going to be the successor.

17th Legion: Strangely enough, when they were still the Imperial Heralds, there was clear overlap between the 17th and the 3rd in that they both functioned as the Emperor's heralds. However, where the 3rd represented the loyal nobility of the Empire, the 17th represented repentant former enemies. In that sense, the 17th heralded the Emperor's absolution; his promise that all would be forgiven once a former opponent joined the Imperium. In this case, Lorgar was always meant to represent the Emperor's compassion and love, his willingness to embrace all of misguided humanity. If true, then Lorgar became exactly the man he was intended to become: The one Primarch who truly cared for and loved all of his brothers and wanted to save and protect them all. It makes his fall all the more poignant in this sense.

18th Legion: Since Vulkan is a Perpetual, it's really unnecessary to look at his Legion to figure out that he's meant to inherit the Emperor's immortality and creativity. It's an interesting combination, but it does make sense. An immortal who lacks creativity would simply stagnate and get bored over the long periods of his life. Ollanius Persson is basically proof of this, in that he's just a stubborn, grumpy old man after 30 millennia of living a largely exciting life as an eternal groundpounder.

19th Legion: In this particular case, Corvus Corax and his sneaky Legion were obviously made to be sneaky sneaks, and they complemented each other well. I mean, his special power is to turn psychically invisible to sentient organics. There's really not much more to be said. It's already blatantly obvious what Corax's function is, and I guess he represented the aspect of the Emperor who liked to employ sneaky tactics without being fully duplicitous.

20th Legion: Which brings us to these guys, who are obviously meant to be sneaky AND duplicitous. Proven even more by how their Legion functioned long before they were even found. If anything, it's ironic that by the time of the Horus Heresy, Horus - meant to be the proud, stable anchor for his brothers - had become duplicitous in all aspect, while the twins who were intended to be duplicitous retained their core loyalties and instead chose to use their duplicitousness to utilize the powers of Chaos to defend their father's vision. The twins represented the aspect of their father that believed in doing insidious and unpleasant things to ultimately achieve a (to borrow from the Tau) greater good.

im wondering if you've read all the HH books to date Huri, as a lot of what you have said is either wrong or .. old.

ill try myself

1st: Nobility

2nd: unknown

3rd: pride, aspiration

4th: Builders and architects, as said by peturabo himself

5th: Wardens of the deep dark places, similar to how deathwatch operate now, hunt down the big bad and exterminate it, as demonstrated by the hunting of the nephilim.

6th: arrogance, blindly following orders, self proclaimed executioners.

7th: Dorn is exactly as he was intended I agree, he was the protector of the emperor.

8th: Undiciplined forsight and I again agree, policeman, could also represent the emps own self doubts.

9th: already been answered in HH, he was the emps choice to take over as emp.

10th: Technology developers and inovater, as shown in angel exterminates and others.

11th: dunno

12th: brotherhood above all, as demonstrated in betrayer and HH books, hence why angron is so ... angry about the loss of his only true brothers and sisters.

13th: I agree

14th: Fear, mortarion is the emps fear of the warp, hence why he surrounds himself with the vestments of death, I also think he may have been intended to be the emps chief of medicine, that would be ironic right?

15th: curiosity and golden throne battery

16th: soldiers pure and simple, also leaders

17th: hope, faith that the future can be better, kinda went a bit awry.

18th: articifers and humanity, that one is easy

19th: the emps habbit of sitting back and watching things until he feels its right to attack/ do stuff

20th: secret police, basically the inquisition for space marines, emps secretive nature.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

I really hate how hopeless everything is in the 40k universe. I mean, at least do something to where a guiding light returns to the Galaxy. You can do that without ruining the grim-dark - for instance, the Primarchs return and begin leading the IoM; renovating the Byzantine beurocracies and bringing about great change to the Imperium. Meanwhile, Chaos grows stronger and 2 more Hive Fleets hit and the Necrons begin a crusade of their own to conquer the IoM. Just spitballing here.

They have that, it's called Star Wars.

Actually Star Wars is a horrible universe to live in where most people are brain dead and have less technological innovation then the Admech and everyone's stuck in a constant cycle of self destruction as the Sith seize power, wipe out the local government and Jedi, then in turn implode and get wiped out by some surviving rebel Jedi. Ad infinitum.

Of course while in the the cycle of self destruction, silly things happen like Han Solo punching space otters.

It's still a nicer place to live than 40K.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

I really hate how hopeless everything is in the 40k universe. I mean, at least do something to where a guiding light returns to the Galaxy. You can do that without ruining the grim-dark - for instance, the Primarchs return and begin leading the IoM; renovating the Byzantine beurocracies and bringing about great change to the Imperium. Meanwhile, Chaos grows stronger and 2 more Hive Fleets hit and the Necrons begin a crusade of their own to conquer the IoM. Just spitballing here.

They have that, it's called Star Wars.

Actually Star Wars is a horrible universe to live in where most people are brain dead and have less technological innovation then the Admech and everyone's stuck in a constant cycle of self destruction as the Sith seize power, wipe out the local government and Jedi, then in turn implode and get wiped out by some surviving rebel Jedi. Ad infinitum.

Of course while in the the cycle of self destruction, silly things happen like Han Solo punching space otters.

It's still a nicer place to live than 40K.

I don't know....the Tyranid have nothing on the horror that is Jar Jar Binks.

 Coldstream wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

I really hate how hopeless everything is in the 40k universe. I mean, at least do something to where a guiding light returns to the Galaxy. You can do that without ruining the grim-dark - for instance, the Primarchs return and begin leading the IoM; renovating the Byzantine beurocracies and bringing about great change to the Imperium. Meanwhile, Chaos grows stronger and 2 more Hive Fleets hit and the Necrons begin a crusade of their own to conquer the IoM. Just spitballing here.

They have that, it's called Star Wars.

Actually Star Wars is a horrible universe to live in where most people are brain dead and have less technological innovation then the Admech and everyone's stuck in a constant cycle of self destruction as the Sith seize power, wipe out the local government and Jedi, then in turn implode and get wiped out by some surviving rebel Jedi. Ad infinitum.

Of course while in the the cycle of self destruction, silly things happen like Han Solo punching space otters.

It's still a nicer place to live than 40K.

I don't know....the Tyranid have nothing on the horror that is Jar Jar Binks.

There's also the very real threat of the Mnggal-Mnggal.

Yes, but it's not like 40K doesn't have similarly-nasty entities.

Many thanks to @Hurimirshugu and @Formosa for staying on topic.

I've read a bunch of the books, but still don't know everything about these Legions--for example that the Scars were formed only after Jaghatai was found? That's news to me.

I also am intrigued by the "redundancy" element, which has been pointed out a couple of times. I mean, this could harken back to the original fluff, when the 9 Loyalist and 9 Traitor Primarchs were just divided in that way (before the industry that is the HH and ForgeWorld really took off and GW realized that they needed to bulk out the fluff), but it's pretty obvious that at least some of the Primarchs are "mirror images" (or perhaps opposite sides of the same coin?) of one another. For example:

Russ & Angron (though I agree with the argument that it's the nails that drove him mad, as Betrayer points out so well)

Corvus & Curze (or Alpharius? Hmm...)

Guilliman & Horus

Dorn & Perturabo

Ferrus & Mortarion

Magnus & Sanguinius?

OR

Horus & Sanguinius?

The Lion and Horus?

So...yeah, my theory kind of falls apart. Which is good, really, for the diversity of the Legions and Chapters; I like it that it's more than "I play with the Red ones" now, and increasingly so. But the idea that he had redundancy (like extra officers on Normandy beaches) because he wanted back-ups is intriguing to me. Especially because it all went so wrong and he ended up alienating and infuriating half his "Sons."

 Formosa wrote:
im wondering if you've read all the HH books to date Huri, as a lot of what you have said is either wrong or .. old.

ill try myself

1st: Nobility

2nd: unknown

3rd: pride, aspiration

4th: Builders and architects, as said by peturabo himself

5th: Wardens of the deep dark places, similar to how deathwatch operate now, hunt down the big bad and exterminate it, as demonstrated by the hunting of the nephilim.

6th: arrogance, blindly following orders, self proclaimed executioners.

7th: Dorn is exactly as he was intended I agree, he was the protector of the emperor.

8th: Undiciplined forsight and I again agree, policeman, could also represent the emps own self doubts.

9th: already been answered in HH, he was the emps choice to take over as emp.

10th: Technology developers and inovater, as shown in angel exterminates and others.

11th: dunno

12th: brotherhood above all, as demonstrated in betrayer and HH books, hence why angron is so ... angry about the loss of his only true brothers and sisters.

13th: I agree

14th: Fear, mortarion is the emps fear of the warp, hence why he surrounds himself with the vestments of death, I also think he may have been intended to be the emps chief of medicine, that would be ironic right?

15th: curiosity and golden throne battery

16th: soldiers pure and simple, also leaders

17th: hope, faith that the future can be better, kinda went a bit awry.

18th: articifers and humanity, that one is easy

19th: the emps habbit of sitting back and watching things until he feels its right to attack/ do stuff

20th: secret police, basically the inquisition for space marines, emps secretive nature.

I've read the HH books. What I'm trying to say is that HH reflects not what the Emperor wanted but what he had to work with, once all the Primarchs had been found. See, the Primarchs as we know them have either been tainted by Chaos, altered by the Warp, or simply raised in environments the Emperor never intended them to be raised in. As a result, NONE of the Primarchs became 100% what the Emperor intended, which is the original question posted in this thread. So I'm arguing that to figure out what the Primarchs were intended by the Emperor to become, we need to look at how the Legions behaved and what they looked like before they met their respective Primarchs. Why? Because the original Space Marine Legions raised on Terra were raised by the Emperor himself according to his original intent. At the time most of the Legions were being raised, the Emperor had not discovered any of his sons, so he had simply assigned to each Legion the traits he assigned to the Primarchs in the first place, in complete ignorance of what they had become in the intervening years, far away from home and the controlled environment of Terra he had planned for them.

For that we need to go back to the older fluff about the respective Legions, because HH really doesn't give us a picture of what the Legions looked like and functioned like before they met their Primarchs. After all, HH is largely about the Primarchs themselves.

Actually, we do agree on a few things, though. I also think that Sanguinius was the chosen successor, even before he was found. I'm an older fan, and this idea of Sanguinius the Successor is far older than HH, just so you know. Back then we had great wars over this interpretation of the fluff.

It's just that, despite what HH says, it's kinda funny for 30,000+ year-old immortal superman to even need a successor. But yes, even Emps actually thought he needed one.

@patheralegionnaire, sorry, I'm a bad writer so that didn't come out right. The core of the White Scars were already present on Terra before Jagatai Khan was found. The 5th Legion was already numbered and waiting for their Primarch. However, per original fluff (and I don't see anything in HH contradicting this) the formation was not yet complete when Jagatai Khan was found. So instead of taking command of a fully-formed Legion, Jagatai Khan took the Terran core of the 5th to Chogoris and had them join his tribe, learning their language and participating in their rituals. As a result, whatever existed of the original 5th Legion never acquired their own identity. Khan raised the 5th Legion himself from the Terran core and his tribesmen.

So to shorten what I wrote before, here's what I think the original fluff of the Legions of Space Marines in the Codices and other sources seem to suggest what qualities the Primarchs were intended to represent, instead of what they became.

1. Lion el'Jonson: Space Marine
(Simply put, he's the prototype and the model of what Space Marines were meant to be)

2. Unknown

3. Fulgrim: Nobility
(Fulgrim was prideful, but the original 3rd behaved humbly despite being raised from noble sons and being favored as the Emperor's heralds - this is true nobility, not pride)

4. Perturabo: Tenacity
(PERTURABO thought they should become builders and architects, but the 4th acquired these traits from him - before that they weren't particularly know for that, just for being reliable lineholders)

5. Jagatai Khan: Ambition
(Khan's driving emotion when still on Chogoris was the ambition to unify his planet's people, and his Legion followed suit and applied the same ambition to the stars)

6. Leman Russ: Executioner
(This is not new to HH, actually, the idea itself is old in the fandom thanks to what happened to Prospero. What HH did was make it canon)

7. Rogal Dorn: Just rule
(I think, out of all the Primarchs, Dorn was the one who got closest to what the Emperor had intended him to become - still not 100% probably, because some of his ideas went counter to daddy's worldview)

8. Konrad Curze: Vigilance
(His Legion basically functioned as a proto-Inquisition or proto-Arbiter before he was found. This is one case where a Legion's makeup, behavior, attitude, and function actually changed significantly thanks to contact with their Primarch - from cops to terrorists)

9. Sanguinius: Heroism
(It should be noted that the qualities of honor, nobility, martial excellence, and integrity - but also righteous rage, single-mindedness, and stubborn belief in one's righteousness were part of the traditional idea of heroism. Nowadays we associate this with the 9-11 fireman but that's not how this quality was traditionally defined)

10. Ferrus Manus: Martial excellence
(This was what the Iron Hands represented before they met their Primarch and got entranced by his necrodermis hands. Yes, yes, there's been retcons and retcons of retcons and retcons of those retcons' retcons of the Iron Hands, so now they're not all that nuts and they don't really want to become 'bots, but the way they're portrayed in HH is closer to this interpretation)

11. Unknown

12. Angron: Wrath
(The angriest Legion got the angriest Primarch)

13. Roboute Guilliman: Imperium
(As originally understood by the Romans, Imperium is an authority bestowed upon a man that grants him the right to command a military force and expand the rule of Rome. This is a good description of what Guilliman and his Ultramarines represent. I think Guilliman was second closest after Dorn to what the Emperor intended him to be. He's second because - and this is from HH - instead of exercising his Imperium to support the Emperor directly, he independently exercised it to protect Imperial ideals at the cost of Terra's defense)

14. Mortarion: Resilience
(Dusk Raiders were Legion of choice to be sent to hostile environments even before meeting their Primarch, so there's not much difference between intent and result in this case)

15. Magnus: Psionic mastery
(I'm tempted to say magic, but the Imperial Truth specifically says there's no such thing. Anyway, both Legion and Primarch exhibit the same psionic traits, so there's another match here)

16. Horus: Imperial Truth
(Before they met Horus, the SM of the 16th embodied the attitudes the Emperor wanted the doctrine to shape humanity into)

17. Lorgar: Compassion
(Specifically the Emperor's compassion. I'm not saying the 17th was particularly compassionate in executing their duties. The 17th embodied the Emperor's willingness to forgive enemies, and Lorgar was a compassionate Primarch who responded deeply to others' compassionate acts - unfortunately resulting in ancient-as-Cthulhu's-fudge Kor Phaeron making it to the ranks)

18. Vulkan: Artisanship
(Both the 18th Legion and Vulkan exhibit these traits)

19. Corvus Corax: Subtlety
(I've reconsidered my interpretation for the 19th and Corax, and I think you're right. Their most obvious trait is not being sneaky but being subtle)

20. Alpharius Omegon: Duplicity
(I think this is pretty obvious)

My interpretation is based on how the Legions seemed to exhibit the Emperor's intent for them, and by extension the Primarchs. Yours is on how the Primarchs ended up after being separated from daddy. I think they make an interesting contrast that shows just how f-ed up the Emperor's plans were by Chaotic interference.

Heh, while I was doing that, I thought up for fun what roles each Primarch would fulfill in the Emperor's ideal Empire if his plans had succeeded. Then I thought up titles based on my interpretation. Here's what I think:

- Lion el'Jonson: Lord Commander of the Astra Militarum

- Fulgrim: First Lord of the Imperial Nobility
(actually, hand over all the Knights Houses to him; the Mechanicus are bad news)

- Perturabo: Protector of the Realm
(give him command of all the PDFs to keep Lion honest)

- Jagatai Khan: Defender of the Imperial Frontier
(as with other holders of this misleading title throughout real history, his actual job is to expand said frontier; also doing the jobs of Ordo Xenos in an Inquisition-less Empire)

- Leman Russ: Executor of the Emperor's Will

- Rogal Dorn: Praetor of Terra and Lord Commander of Segmentum Solar

- Konrad Curze: Grand Provost Marshal
(Space Marine Edgar J. Hoover; also doing the jobs of Ordo Hereticus in an Inquisition-less Empire)

- Sanguinius: Emperor's Champion and Heir-Designate

- Ferrus Manus: Vice Commander of the Astra Militarum and Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Army
(in charge of the Imperial Army to keep Lion honest)

- Angron: Master of Discipline of the Astra Militarum
(basically a Chief Commissar in a Commissar-less Empire; let's see those cowards try to run when Kharn is standing there with his chainsword)

- Roboute Guilliman: Chancellor of the Empire and Master of the Administratum

- Mortarion: Warmaster of Special Expeditionary Forces and Patron of Chartist Captains
(leading expeditions to nasty places and Rogue Traders' boss; overlap with Jagatai's job to keep him honest)

- Magnus: Minister of the Imperial Webway, Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and Patron of the Navis Nobilite
(head of transportation and communications; also doing the jobs of Ordo Malleus in an Inquisition-less Empire)

- Horus: Minister of the Imperial Truth
(in other words, Ecclesiarch of atheists; also doing parts of the jobs of Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus in an Inquisition-less Empire)

- Lorgar: Master of the Imperial Heralds
(chief diplomat to fellow humans still stubbornly unwilling to accept Imperial rule, backed of course by the Imperial Heralds Space Marine Legion; yes, I think Lorgar and Horus' roles got reversed)

- Vulkan: Fabricator General of Mars
(yes, real Ferrus would be the man for this job, but ideal Ferrus would never have had necrodermis; besides, the Mechanicus will try to kill him right away, so let's see them try)

- Corvus Corax: Grand Master of Assassins and Imperial Intelligence

- Alpharius Omegon: Who?

I cannot say how pleased I am with this post. Thank you for taking the time to craft such a detailed and well thought-out analysis, from two angles, no less!

Shame that this vision did not come to pass, is what I think. But more realistic and tragic and true to human (or Transhuman?) nature that it did not.