Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tyranids Raveners cost my last game as it just fail to deep strike and my opponent place my Raveners broods far far away from the battle zone and out of synapse... Raveners just keeping borrow every turn while object is only 7" away...

I just wonder which unit are better? Warriors Shrieker with synapse or Raveners with deep strike... Melee Warriors?

Question about Warriors Shrieker... In rule - it do not say it have wing... In fluff, it said Warriors Shrieker has leather wing..

Can I use Raveners model as a Warriors Shrieker?

Personally I prefer the Shrikes(flying warriors). The synapse and better melee options(plus flesh hooks) usually win out in my book.

As for using Ravenors as Shrikes-that's up to your opponent. Forgeworld actually makes a conversion kit-

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/TYRANID_SHRIKE_BROOD_CONVERSION_KIT.html

Another simple conversion would be using extra gargoyle wings. As warriors and ravenors are about the same size, I don't think that most opponents would have a problem with you using ravenor bodies as the base. Just use wings and make sure you magnetize so you can switch between them!

I haven't found wings I like for Shrikes. The FW ones don't really suit the rest of the model. They're more in keeping with the Harridan aesthetic, not so much the Warrior aesthetic.

Gargoyle wings are just too small.

Chapterhouse wings look ok, maybe a bit too big and chunky. I don't know if you can still buy them any more.

I trawled eBay for vargheist wings- they seemed to look fairly good to me.

Wing on Raveners for Tyranids sheirker look much better because it look closer to flying monster creature! Heh.

Look like I going to green stuff for wing, it is only way.

Solidcrash wrote:

Question about Warriors Shrieker... In rule - it do not say it have wing... In fluff, it said Warriors Shrieker has leather wing..

They do have wings.
Look at the unit type - jump infantry, the same as gargoyles or sky-slasher swarms.

Shrikes don't have the 'wings' biomorph in the rules, because that's explicitely for the hive tyrant - the only creature (at the moment) which isn't flying but has the option to become so.

Yeah. But if you look at old codex -

And new codex -

No FAQ or erratic to fix that... All I has is this.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Tyranids_v1.0_May14.pdf

As you can see they had two pair of weapon plus wing.. The wing you talk about and picture you show cannot match with warrior shrieked bio-wargear.. Unless shrieked cannot lose scything talons then wing with scything talons will work.

Example.
Warriors shrike broods ( using warriors model )

One model can take basic bio-cannons list..

Replace devours with Barbed strangler..

And all three warriors take Melee bio-weapons replace scything talons with pair of bone swords..

Hey! That warriors shrike brood cannot fly!

Maybe they are like Kangaroos now?

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Maybe they are like Kangaroos now?

I saw a dead Kangaroo on my way home from work today :(

On topic, I have both the Chapter House and FW Shrike upgrade kits.

Chapterhouse: These are way to big, they're about as wide as a Carnifex is long. The heads that come with are a bit too ugly IMHO.

Forgeworld: The size is nice but the wings look a little dated and as has been mentioned have more of a Harridan feel then a Flyrant one.

Gargoyle wings: These look really silly on Warriors or Raveners, They're far too small.

or this!



I need learn code... :(

Solidcrash wrote:

Spoiler:

Yeah. But if you look at old codex -

And new codex -

No FAQ or erratic to fix that... All I has is this.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Tyranids_v1.0_May14.pdf

As you can see they had two pair of weapon plus wing.. The wing you talk about and picture you show cannot match with warrior shrieked bio-wargear.. Unless shrieked cannot lose scything talons then wing with scything talons will work.

Example.
Warriors shrike broods ( using warriors model )

One model can take basic bio-cannons list..

Replace devours with Barbed strangler..

And all three warriors take Melee bio-weapons replace scything talons with pair of bone swords..

Hey! That warriors shrike brood cannot fly!

5th ed ruling on Wings (post 6th-ed FAQ)

A model with wings adds "Jump" to it's unit type, in most cases becoming Jump Infantry. A Monstrous Creature with wings becomes a Flying Monstrous Creature

6th Ed Codex

A Monstrous Creature with the Wings biomorph changes its unit type to FMC

If you properly look at the rules, you'll see that 6th Ed Shrikes are listed as Jump Infantry, and Wings do nothing for them so there is no need to list them in Biomorphs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And if you look at the other pictures on the FW page, they show Warriors with Scything Talons in place of legs, Devourers in the middle limb and Wings at the top, supported on metal rod. No feet required.
Presumably this is the other reason they are no longer wargear for the Gargoyles and Shrikes, people assuming they have to replace weapons (probably due to the pictures like the second post).

Sorry for the confusion then! Here's a picture of a dual biomorph Shrike-

Yeah. This one how I imagine how shrike should look like.
And just like jetpack for power armour made infantry become into jump infantry. Same story with warriors wing. Just wonder why everybody lose a pair of bio-weapon while add wing on warriors model.... Heh


So.. Warriors shrike are better than Raveners. Because of jump infantry.

Any good stuff come from Raveners? Apartment from need a dice god on your side is requirement!

Lictors can help Raveners with scattered deep strike?

Raveners aren't terrible, just very niche. The 12" movement ignoring cover is great IF you play mostly forest tables, which very few people do anymore. Low Leadership means they must be in Synapse range at ALL times or have a good chance of wandering off. Pair them up with a Winged Tyrant and they can do a decent bit of damage though, running underneath and either distracting the enemy from shooting at the Tyrant or moping up what lives in the Assault phase after the fly-by. But alone, I haven't had much luck with them.

Shrikes are just as squishy, but have more benefits, namely keeping Raveners, Gargoyles, Mawlocs and other Deep Strike or fast units in Synapse when Momma Flyrant needs to go kill things.

Im in the process of converting plague drone of nurgle wings for use with tyranids, going to mount them on their backs with greenstuff, etc for a more insectild look (and it also keeps with the 6 limb biology of nids, as insect wings are not biologically classified as "limbs").

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Raveners aren't terrible, just very niche. The 12" movement ignoring cover is great IF you play mostly forest tables, which very few people do anymore. Low Leadership means they must be in Synapse range at ALL times or have a good chance of wandering off. Pair them up with a Winged Tyrant and they can do a decent bit of damage though, running underneath and either distracting the enemy from shooting at the Tyrant or moping up what lives in the Assault phase after the fly-by. But alone, I haven't had much luck with them.

Shrikes are just as squishy, but have more benefits, namely keeping Raveners, Gargoyles, Mawlocs and other Deep Strike or fast units in Synapse when Momma Flyrant needs to go kill things.

Agree.. And Raveners will need Lictors to behide the enemy line. In turn 2 Lictor arrive at back of enemy deployment zone ( aim very busy group, who have to do multitasks!) keep enemy worry over Lictor who lurking until turn 3. Broods of Raveners broods with range weapon! Fire at wills when arrive.

Or worse... Lictor capture objective and Raveners deep strike that area made opposition cry


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just add up and compare the bio-wargear. Both get same pts.

Fast Attack:

Ravener Brood (180pts)
Ravener
Deep Strike, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Very Bulky
Scything Talons, Scything Talons
Ravener
Deep Strike, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Very Bulky
Scything Talons, Scything Talons
Ravener
Deep Strike, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Very Bulky
Scything Talons, Scything Talons
Ravener
Deep Strike, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Very Bulky
Scything Talons, Scything Talons
Ravener
Deep Strike, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Very Bulky
Scything Talons, Scything Talons
Ravener
Deep Strike, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Very Bulky
Scything Talons, Scything Talons


Tyranid Shrike Brood (185pts)

Tyranid Shrike
Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky
Rending Claws, Barbed Strangler
Tyranid Shrike
Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky
Rending Claws, Spinefists
Tyranid Shrike
Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky
Rending Claws, Spinefists
Tyranid Shrike
Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky
Rending Claws, Spinefists
Tyranid Shrike
Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky
Rending Claws, Spinefists

Shrike seem get better wargear don't it?

 Deadshot wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:

Spoiler:

Yeah. But if you look at old codex -

And new codex -

No FAQ or erratic to fix that... All I has is this.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Tyranids_v1.0_May14.pdf

As you can see they had two pair of weapon plus wing.. The wing you talk about and picture you show cannot match with warrior shrieked bio-wargear.. Unless shrieked cannot lose scything talons then wing with scything talons will work.

Example.
Warriors shrike broods ( using warriors model )

One model can take basic bio-cannons list..

Replace devours with Barbed strangler..

And all three warriors take Melee bio-weapons replace scything talons with pair of bone swords..

Hey! That warriors shrike brood cannot fly!

5th ed ruling on Wings (post 6th-ed FAQ)

A model with wings adds "Jump" to it's unit type, in most cases becoming Jump Infantry. A Monstrous Creature with wings becomes a Flying Monstrous Creature

6th Ed Codex

A Monstrous Creature with the Wings biomorph changes its unit type to FMC

If you properly look at the rules, you'll see that 6th Ed Shrikes are listed as Jump Infantry, and Wings do nothing for them so there is no need to list them in Biomorphs.

I do feel like GW are one of the few companies silly enough to make a biomorph simply called "wings" that only applies to monstrous creatures so that other creatures that are clearly winged like Gargoyles and Shrikes don't actually have the "wings" special rule

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:

Spoiler:

Yeah. But if you look at old codex -

And new codex -

No FAQ or erratic to fix that... All I has is this.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Tyranids_v1.0_May14.pdf

As you can see they had two pair of weapon plus wing.. The wing you talk about and picture you show cannot match with warrior shrieked bio-wargear.. Unless shrieked cannot lose scything talons then wing with scything talons will work.

Example.
Warriors shrike broods ( using warriors model )

One model can take basic bio-cannons list..

Replace devours with Barbed strangler..

And all three warriors take Melee bio-weapons replace scything talons with pair of bone swords..

Hey! That warriors shrike brood cannot fly!

5th ed ruling on Wings (post 6th-ed FAQ)

A model with wings adds "Jump" to it's unit type, in most cases becoming Jump Infantry. A Monstrous Creature with wings becomes a Flying Monstrous Creature

6th Ed Codex

A Monstrous Creature with the Wings biomorph changes its unit type to FMC

If you properly look at the rules, you'll see that 6th Ed Shrikes are listed as Jump Infantry, and Wings do nothing for them so there is no need to list them in Biomorphs.

I do feel like GW are one of the few companies silly enough to make a biomorph simply called "wings" that only applies to monstrous creatures so that other creatures that are clearly winged like Gargoyles and Shrikes don't actually have the "wings" special rule

Its not silly. Gargoyles and Shrikes come with Wings standard so they would always be Jump Infantry. They are the only ones capable of getting wing so its just easier to write them as JI anyway and exclude it from the Wings description.
Harpies and Crones already have Wings so listed as FMC. Technically, RAW speaking, their Wings do absolutely nothing as Wings only change a MC into a FMC. Crones and Harpies are FMC, not MC.

The only unit the Wings affected is the Hive Tyrant as it is the only unit that can be either. If, in the next Codex, the Flyrant is a seperate unit like Terminator Captains and Captains are seperate in SM 6th Ed, the Wings will have absolutely no use besides redundancy.

I just think it's silly that you would write a special rule called "Wings" that only applies to MC's. I understand the rules and reasoning, I just think it's silly to word the rules like that. It's like having a special rule "legs", that actually only applies to a certain unit type in the game even though there are other models that do physically have legs don't have the "legs" special rule.

Either pick a word that isn't so all encompassing (instead of calling it "Wings", call it "Winged Monster" or something) or make it so your "Wings" rule does actually encompass all models that have Wings instead of just MC's. So you could have "Wings (Jump Infantry)" or "Wings (Flying Monstrous Creature)".

Indeed I find it odd that you would even bother with the "wings" rule in it's current incarnation because the sole purpose of this special rule is to tell you that you have a different special rule Why not just omit the "wings" rule altogether and say "Upgrade to Flying Monstrous Creature.... 35pts".

Sorry I know it isn't important... it's just things like this that make me feel 40k is written by a bunch of monkeys and/or is never proof read by anyone who has a critical eye for silliness.

Wings is a biomorph, not a special rule. You are paying to enhance your Hive Tyrant with Wings, in the same way you pay for a Jump Pack or Terminator Armour on a Chapter Master. You are not buying a Special Rule, you are buying a physical upgrade, which has the effect of turning a Monstrous Creature into a Flying Monstrous Creature.

It is not in anyway silly.

I know what it does, but why does it need to exist? Why can't it just say "Upgrade to Flying Monstrous Creature.... 35pts".

And I still think it's silly to use a widespread term like "Wings" as the name of a rule which only applies to 1 model when many models clearly have wings.

Because what makes it upgrade to the Flying Monstrous Creature? I have an old Walking Tyrant, can I just pay the 35pts and she flies now? Levitation? It has to be tied to the wings. Even if other things have wings, what else should it be called that clearly states wings are the reason it flies? Maybe "+35 pts for wings, making the unit type Flying Monstrous Creature" but it's the same result, right?

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Maybe "+35 pts for wings, making the unit type Flying Monstrous Creature" but it's the same result, right?

I was actually just thinking of making the fluff say that vanguard forces of tyranids are often led by winged Hive Tyrants and then the fact wings are included in the kit would make it self explanatory that's how you model "flying". But what you said there would be fine too... it would have the same result but would mean you don't have an extra rule which simply refers you to yet another rule to actually find out what it does.

At the moment you have the Hive Tyrant entry, it tells you "Wings" are an upgrade, I'm not sure about the print version but my ebook version doesn't even tell you where to locate "Wings", so you then have to flip through the codex to find the "wings" entry, which then tells you all that "wings" do is give your model a rule that is in the BRB. Then the aforementioned sloppiness of naming a very specific rule that only applies to 1 model a word which actually describes half a dozen entries in the codex.

It's just sloppy writing in my opinion. The sort of thing that a decent editor should tell you not to do.

I thinks that GW try tell anyone that "wing" is a flying creature.

But most of broods is not flying creatures. They get jump infantry instead. Maybe that why they do not have "wing" but have "jump infantry" special rule.

So our shrike do not have "jink" or 18" move per turn while flying just like what flyrant have.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Maybe "+35 pts for wings, making the unit type Flying Monstrous Creature" but it's the same result, right?

I was actually just thinking of making the fluff say that vanguard forces of tyranids are often led by winged Hive Tyrants and then the fact wings are included in the kit would make it self explanatory that's how you model "flying". But what you said there would be fine too... it would have the same result but would mean you don't have an extra rule which simply refers you to yet another rule to actually find out what it does.

At the moment you have the Hive Tyrant entry, it tells you "Wings" are an upgrade, I'm not sure about the print version but my ebook version doesn't even tell you where to locate "Wings", so you then have to flip through the codex to find the "wings" entry, which then tells you all that "wings" do is give your model a rule that is in the BRB. Then the aforementioned sloppiness of naming a very specific rule that only applies to 1 model a word which actually describes half a dozen entries in the codex.

It's just sloppy writing in my opinion. The sort of thing that a decent editor should tell you not to do.

It is in no way sloppy. Its a fairly senseible way to do it. Let's see

Captain
Purchase Space Marine Bike
Turns to bike
"Models (all relevant are Infantry) with a Space Marine Bike change their unit type to Bike."

Bike is a generic rule (unit type) that can apply to numerous races and so is found in the BRB. Space Marine Bike is an upgrade for only Space Marines and so found there.

Hive Tyrant
Purchases Wings
Turns to Wings
"Models (all relevant are Monstrous Creatures) with Wings are treated as Flying Monstrous Creatures."
FMC is a generic unit type across multiple factions so BRB. Wings are for Tyranids only (or Daemons and CSM DP's, but these are for Nids only in this Codex), so are in the Nid Codex.


How is it silly to include rules specific to Nids in the Nids book? How is it silly to have all the general rules in oje rulebook for everyone? How is it silly to have an upgrade give an effect?

Yeah. Subject about "wing" is finish. This is not YMDC!

All I ask why someone remove "melee bio-weapon" scything talons to place wing on warrior model. I want to keep two pair of bio-weapon, Shrike look better on Raveners model sorted.. That all!!

Right.. Let go back to subject - Shrike vs Raveners. Which better at fast attack.

Why not both? Big brood of rending raveners with a small brood of Shrikes to provide Synapse. Done!

SBG wrote:
Why not both? Big brood of rending raveners with a small brood of Shrikes to provide Synapse. Done!

Good point.

Right. Just brought hive tyrants and warriors pack. Because I have one more spare bit of Raveners. Create one prime so extra body go to shrike.

6 Raveners model-
3 rending Raveners & 3 warrior shrike.

9 warrior model -
1 prime and 8 warriors.

Wargear? Hmmm......