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If the update just dropped I might need to get back on... I never liked to fight D.Va.

My only bane is a bad team and Roadhog. Nothing like getting chained and one shot.

I have to wonder if Winston's shield ought to be unbreakable, but with a shorter time-limit. Say, 4 or 5 seconds of invinci-shield-bubble, 12 second cooldown. Lets you use it as guaranteed denial, an Ult counter, drop it on Bastion or D.VA...

Or, alternatively, make it work as the malfunctioning prototype did, and force enemies outside of the bubble as it sets up. That'd be interesting (let them walk through once it's fully erected, though).

Winston's shield already can contain D.VA's ult an prevent it when put around MEKA. Though, I still think his shields should go back to how it was, 2K health on it.

Symmetra's normal fire needs to go back to 5 meters or have it's clip reduced drasticly. Since she now actually have a gap closer on her and had a damage boost, and the damage only racks up the longer you hold it against enemies. She can dose out over 1500+ on damage in one clip. Meaning, she can just waltz down an entire team... without having to reload... combined with that portable Reinhardt shield... yeah, no.

Roadhog's in a pretty good place now. People just have to adapt to him. Thankfully the fixed the hiding behing a street light or tree thing.

D.VA has been nerfed to hard. They should have looked into the Ulti swallowing Matrix instead of her health and armor. Still think they should bring back the chance of dieing of her own Ult. Junkrat dies from his own Ulti to, that's even less of a big explosion.

Sombra is slightly buffed, she should be able to hack Symmetra's stuff at the least. Making it safer for her to destroy teleporters (Since she's extreme), or disable the shield generator for a few seconds. Her EMP ult disables Torb's turret for a bit... but not Symmetra's turrets and other stuff. Her hacking should be fixed like what they did to Roadhog's hook during the PTR, currently if you walk past a rock or tree it just disrupts her hacking, even when you're like 2 meters behind them.

But yeah, that's my view of it.

D.Va hasn't been nerfed hard enough.

Until her Ultimate has the same blast radius as Rip Tire, it's ridiculous.

The Grumpy Eldar wrote:Winston's shield already can contain D.VA's ult an prevent it when put around MEKA. Though, I still think his shields should go back to how it was, 2K health on it.

Symmetra's normal fire needs to go back to 5 meters or have it's clip reduced drasticly. Since she now actually have a gap closer on her and had a damage boost, and the damage only racks up the longer you hold it against enemies. She can dose out over 1500+ on damage in one clip. Meaning, she can just waltz down an entire team... without having to reload... combined with that portable Reinhardt shield... yeah, no.

Roadhog's in a pretty good place now. People just have to adapt to him. Thankfully the fixed the hiding behing a street light or tree thing.

D.VA has been nerfed to hard. They should have looked into the Ulti swallowing Matrix instead of her health and armor. Still think they should bring back the chance of dieing of her own Ult. Junkrat dies from his own Ulti to, that's even less of a big explosion.

Sombra is slightly buffed, she should be able to hack Symmetra's stuff at the least. Making it safer for her to destroy teleporters (Since she's extreme), or disable the shield generator for a few seconds. Her EMP ult disables Torb's turret for a bit... but not Symmetra's turrets and other stuff. Her hacking should be fixed like what they did to Roadhog's hook during the PTR, currently if you walk past a rock or tree it just disrupts her hacking, even when you're like 2 meters behind them.

But yeah, that's my view of it.

Does Symmetra's damage ramp transfer between targets, or does she have to start from its lowest power first? If it's the former, it sounds pretty potent, but even so, hearing of Symmetras charging people head on is pretty funny, and most certainly a tactic that only works because of how ludicrous it is.

I think the real change that D.VA needs is to her critbox. It's large for even a Tank class, and it's on her centre of mass. Keep the 400 HP, 200 Armour and reduce the size of the critbox, and she should be back in order. Either that, or do a bit of tweaking to the charge rate of the Defence Matrix.

Kanluwen wrote:D.Va hasn't been nerfed hard enough.

Until her Ultimate has the same blast radius as Rip Tire, it's ridiculous.

D.VA has one of the weakest Ultimates in the game, simply because, a lot like Roadhog's Hook, it's designed to punish poor positioning by the enemy team. The higher you move through the ranks, the less powerful it typically becomes, as non Tanks will often have some cover close enough to dive behind, or even a Reindhart to get behind to nullify it.

 General Annoyance wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:D.Va hasn't been nerfed hard enough.

Until her Ultimate has the same blast radius as Rip Tire, it's ridiculous.

D.VA has one of the weakest Ultimates in the game, simply because, a lot like Roadhog's Hook, it's designed to punish poor positioning by the enemy team. The higher you move through the ranks, the less powerful it typically becomes, as non Tanks will often have some cover close enough to dive behind, or even a Reindhart to get behind to nullify it.

Yeah...no.

I don't give a crap about "Competitive" rankings. They're a joke and always have been with Blizzard games.

Until D.Va can't rocket boost her suit up and detonate, it's not "designed to punish poor positioning by the enemy team". It's designed to award crummy players with kill-feeds.

Compare D.Va to Titanfall's "Nuclear Ejection".
In order to utilize that perk, I have to be at the point of death and manually eject. If I get the timing even a quarter of a second off or the enemy player has a bit of latency and is just mashing the melee button, I'm taken down by an execution.

D.Va is, and always will be, the newb go to tank.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yeah...no.

I don't give a crap about "Competitive" rankings. They're a joke and always have been with Blizzard games.

Not now; they seem a lot more accurate to player skill thanks to the changes between the seasons. Still a ways to go, but most of the problems seem to surround the community rather than the system itself.

Until D.Va can't rocket boost her suit up and detonate, it's not "designed to punish poor positioning by the enemy team". It's designed to award crummy players with kill-feeds.

That's a big label to put on everyone who plays D.VA in their personal rotation. Even so, problem one with that point is that, unless you are very good with your timing, it is difficult not to overshoot the Ultimate if you Boost and then pop it, and problem two is typically the enemy will have somewhere to hide, be that either a bit of cover a few feet away, or behind a Reindhart Shield that will absorb the damage.

Compare D.Va to Titanfall's "Nuclear Ejection".
In order to utilize that perk, I have to be at the point of death and manually eject. If I get the timing even a quarter of a second off or the enemy player has a bit of latency and is just mashing the melee button, I'm taken down by an execution.

Well D.VA can actually pop the ultimate when her suit is about to eject her, which also needs some timing. Even so, limiting an Overwatch character's to a specific scenario where it can be used would be excessive.

D.Va is, and always will be, the newb go to tank.

And what are you basing this on exactly? I was pretty sure Winston is the beginner Tank if you've just started the game. Does that mean PrOverwatch players are "newbs" for playing D.VA?

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yeah...no.

I don't give a crap about "Competitive" rankings. They're a joke and always have been with Blizzard games.

Not now; they seem a lot more accurate to player skill thanks to the changes between the seasons. Still a ways to go, but most of the problems seem to surround the community rather than the system itself.

Yeah, no. There are not really ever "player skill" changes. There are character changes and then the inevitable flocking of the "pro" players to the new hotness.

Until D.Va can't rocket boost her suit up and detonate, it's not "designed to punish poor positioning by the enemy team". It's designed to award crummy players with kill-feeds.

That's a big label to put on everyone who plays D.VA in their personal rotation. Even so, problem one with that point is that, unless you are very good with your timing, it is difficult not to overshoot the Ultimate if you Boost and then pop it, and problem two is typically the enemy will have somewhere to hide, be that either a bit of cover a few feet away, or behind a Reindhart Shield that will absorb the damage.

Her ultimate never seems to miss me or when I use it doing so. They have artificial ceilings and barriers inside of the levels to prevent her meka from going too high, so I rarely see less than a three kill count unless someone is Barriered by Lucio, Iris'd by Zenyatta, or bubbled by a Zarya and a naturally survivable character.

Reinhart doesn't always stop the damage either, because D.Va can just shoot away at his shield as the meka is coming down and poof the damage goes through.

Compare D.Va to Titanfall's "Nuclear Ejection".
In order to utilize that perk, I have to be at the point of death and manually eject. If I get the timing even a quarter of a second off or the enemy player has a bit of latency and is just mashing the melee button, I'm taken down by an execution.

Well D.VA can actually pop the ultimate when her suit is about to eject her, which also needs some timing. Even so, limiting an Overwatch character's to a specific scenario where it can be used would be excessive.

Considering she is the only character whose "super" is given to her as soon as she spawns?

Don't care. She gets her suit every time she spawns, whether or not the Mech Call was completely filled before she died while on foot.

You want her on equal footing with everyone else? She has to earn her meka, then it detonates as it is about to expire.

D.Va is, and always will be, the newb go to tank.

And what are you basing this on exactly? I was pretty sure Winston is the beginner Tank if you've just started the game. Does that mean PrOverwatch players are "newbs" for playing D.VA?

Oh please. Winston is a joke.

And calling anyone playing Overwatch "pro" players is laughable, at best.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yeah, no. There are not really ever "player skill" changes. There are character changes and then the inevitable flocking of the "pro" players to the new hotness.

The meta is irrelevant in anything but Grand Master+ ranks, since that's the level where player skill is so high and so indifferent to each player that it starts to boil down most to what comp your team has. Below that level, it's more down to your teamwork and your skill at the hero that you chose, rather than who's the optimal choice.

Her ultimate never seems to miss me or when I use it doing so. They have artificial ceilings and barriers inside of the levels to prevent her meka from going too high, so I rarely see less than a three kill count unless someone is Barriered by Lucio, Iris'd by Zenyatta, or bubbled by a Zarya and a naturally survivable character.

Reinhart doesn't always stop the damage either, because D.Va can just shoot away at his shield as the meka is coming down and poof the damage goes through.

Try moving to cover next time it happens and see how easily you can avoid it; even a pillar can block the damage wave that the ultimate causes.

And yes, a tactic is for players to fly high up and eject there, but problem one is that high cover will still block it, and that the pilot leaves themself completely exposed in the air to enemy fire, which will most likely end up in their deaths.

Reindhart's Shield has 2000HP. Now granted it's very unlikely that he'll have all of that up, but even so, 1000 damage from the Ult plus 3 seconds of fire from the Light Gun (about 280 damage) would mean that Shield would have to be weak to break. Besides, if the Ultimate does break his Shield, any spillover damage is lost, so it'd have to have about 200 HP left for D.VA to land almost every shot in her Light Gun's mag to break it, in the 3 seconds before the Ultimate goes off.

Considering she is the only character whose "super" is given to her as soon as she spawns?

Don't care. She gets her suit every time she spawns, whether or not the Mech Call was completely filled before she died while on foot.

You want her on equal footing with everyone else? She has to earn her meka, then it detonates as it is about to expire.

But then nobody would want to use that Ultimate, as you'd then have to play as a 150 HP character with no means of defence or extra manoeuvrability, and do enough Damage with the Light Gun to earn Call Mech again. It makes sense to earn it if you get destroyed in your Mech, but it seems too much of a double edged sword to have to do it after earning and using your Ultimate too.

Dying is also the worst thing that can happen to you in Overwatch, so getting your Mech back after your death is hardly something that overcompensates compared to actually surviving the fight and calling a new one afterwards.

Oh please. Winston is a joke.

And calling anyone playing Overwatch "pro" players is laughable, at best.

I notice that you only make very sweeping statements. Please provide some evidence to merit either of those points, because I can think of plenty of ways to debunk them. Less so for Winston though, as currently he's a little neglected (although still a viable choice)

@Kanluwen-

Wait wait wait wait.

Are you complaining that D.VA's "Too Easy", because you're successful with her?

Dude. That means you're a GOOD D.VA PLAYER. Take some pride, man.

She's commonly used, yes, but if you don't know what you're doing with her, she's a very, very easy Tank to die with, and even I've only recently started managing to regularly call her Mekka without dying.

Reinhardt and Roadhog are the 'Beginner" Tanks- they're simple. Roadhog is Point and Click, pop your 'e' if you're low on health. Reinhardt is "Hold left-click until it's low, then hold right-click and try to look at the enemy". They're simple, and reward simple play.

D.VA, on the other hand, much like Winston, is a Mobile tank, with a large hitbox, and a significant cooldown on her 'shield'. To do well with her, you have to know where to position yourself for whatever you're doing, and know to fall back when weak or out-of-mech, which are both things that generally require a lot of experience to learn.

Similar to Winston, in that aiming isn't the priority, but positioning and timing.

WINSTON IS NOT THE NOOB TANK!

Sorry, had to get that out of my system. Honestly one could make an argument for any tank but Zaria being the noob tank, but with Winston's DPS being so low he's not a good hero for noobs because they won't be able to kill anything with their bubble down without being killed first.

I have to agree with Kan here. D.Va's ult doesn't punish poor positioning, it punishes you if you kill her without your Reinhardt nearby or, considering she can rocket boost and then ult, generally standing just about anywhere at all without your Reinhardt nearby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
WINSTON IS NOT THE NOOB TANK!

Ain't that the truth. Correctly using jet pack is not an easy matter.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I have to agree with Kan here. D.Va's ult doesn't punish poor positioning, it punishes you if you kill her without your Reinhardt nearby or, considering she can rocket boost and then ult, generally standing just about anywhere at all without your Reinhardt nearby.

Sounds more like Mei's Ultimate, punishing you for being anywhere. Simply stepping into nearby cover (and crouching if need be) can save you from the Ult pretty easily, provided you're not a Tank class of course.

Ain't that the truth. Correctly using jet pack is not an easy matter.

It can take some time getting used to, but for an entry level class, Winston at least has simple to understand kit. Obviously a good Winston player does more than "drop shield here, point gun at people and left click" but I'd say he's good to start with if you have no idea about how to play any of the Tank part of the Roster.

 General Annoyance wrote:


Does Symmetra's damage ramp transfer between targets, or does she have to start from its lowest power first? If it's the former, it sounds pretty potent, but even so, hearing of Symmetras charging people head on is pretty funny, and most certainly a tactic that only works because of how ludicrous it is.

I think the real change that D.VA needs is to her critbox. It's large for even a Tank class, and it's on her centre of mass. Keep the 400 HP, 200 Armour and reduce the size of the critbox, and she should be back in order. Either that, or do a bit of tweaking to the charge rate of the Defence Matrix.

Yes. Symmetras primary fire ramps up between multiple targets and it does so quite fast. Plus if you have a Mei you can use her icewall to start it up in safety since it locks onto that to. The fact at the moment is that Symmetra can lock down a large part of the map on her own. Hiding turrets to slow people, using shields and generators (that give extra 75 regenerating shields) to go in unscathed and the gun primary that requires no aim at all whatsoever and her tiny hitbox. The combination is ridiculous.

All the flankers have a ridiculous hard time flanking due to her. It's literally a death sentence for the likes of Sombra, Reaper, Tracer, etc. Hell even tanks have hard times on their own against her. (I know Roadhog can hook her but against a semi competent Symmetra with help he'll have a real hard time.) You'd need at least 2 people to fight a good Symmetra. Making teamfights 4 against 5 or worse.


One thing that annoys me to no end... D.VA's MEKA isn't hindered by Roadhogs ultimate at al when it boosts in when exploding. While other charge attacks get either knocked back or held in place. While Reinhardt and Lucio can push and boop it back.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Yes. Symmetras primary fire ramps up between multiple targets and it does so quite fast. Plus if you have a Mei you can use her icewall to start it up in safety since it locks onto that to. The fact at the moment is that Symmetra can lock down a large part of the map on her own. Hiding turrets to slow people, using shields and generators (that give extra 75 regenerating shields) to go in unscathed and the gun primary that requires no aim at all whatsoever and her tiny hitbox. The combination is ridiculous.

As in an enemy Mei, right? Or can she lock onto a friendly Ice Wall?

I wouldn't say she can lock down as well as Torbjorn, unless you make a death trap out of her Turrets, in which case you still aren't locking down a large area. The Shield Generator is pretty nasty, but it, and her turrets, can be trashed by quite a few heroes (Winston, Junkrat and Hanzo would be good). However, since none of those heroes are in the existent but totally unnecessary meta, I'd say that's why she seems so powerful to most teams - her equipment is conveniently good against most of the heroes you'd expect to see in rotation.

All the flankers have a ridiculous hard time flanking due to her. It's literally a death sentence for the likes of Sombra, Reaper, Tracer, etc. Hell even tanks have hard times on their own against her. (I know Roadhog can hook her but against a semi competent Symmetra with help he'll have a real hard time.) You'd need at least 2 people to fight a good Symmetra. Making teamfights 4 against 5 or worse.

I reckon you could say the same about quite a few Offence heroes and Tanks - a good player will always augment a character's kit beyond their expected potential.

I reckon Junkrat would be a great counter for Symmetra, although I have yet to try that theory out - a good Junkrat wouldn't have to worry about her small hitbox, and his splash damage would be perfect for taking out Turrets and Shield Generators.

One thing that annoys me to no end... D.VA's MEKA isn't hindered by Roadhogs ultimate at al when it boosts in when exploding. While other charge attacks get either knocked back or held in place. While Reinhardt and Lucio can push and boop it back.

Interesting. Although honestly, unless you're Reindhart, the best option is always to dive for cover when a D.VA Ult is heading your way.

"Dive for cover" is all well and good, but half the time on control point maps there is no cover without abandoning the point to the enemy.

FWIW in my scrubby opinion D.Va is one of those champions that just isn't fun to play against. There's a good chance your ultimate a will do nothing, there's a good chance that trying to flank means having to try to run away from D.Va as you run into her, and there's a good chance that trying to capture a point without a Reinhardt (or a quick Mei) means your team gets blown up. As an added bit of fun you're not even rewarded with a kill when you do manage to outplay her.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
"Dive for cover" is all well and good, but half the time on control point maps there is no cover without abandoning the point to the enemy.

That's a fair point; on a Control map D.VA's Ultimate can be much more powerful than usual in clearing the objective (although there are a few maps with blocking terrain either next to or in the point, such as in Lijang Tower and the other maps in that rotation). However, I would say that, unless the enemy team is extremely fast and/or have you flanked, they will struggle to hold that point after 3 seconds once your team gets back out to defend it.

Some good counters to a D.VA on Control would be Mei and/or Junkrat, since both of them can lock down the objective without having to be inside it (Mei's Blizzard, Junkrats primary fire/Concussion Mine) - that'd stop the enemy team from jumping in straight away after a D.VA Ult.

FWIW in my scrubby opinion D.Va is one of those champions that just isn't fun to play against. There's a good chance your ultimate a will do nothing, there's a good chance that trying to flank means having to try to run away from D.Va as you run into her, and there's a good chance that trying to capture a point without a Reinhardt (or a quick Mei) means your team gets blown up. As an added bit of fun you're not even rewarded with a kill when you do manage to outplay her.

Not scrubby if you back it up I think you could say that about a few characters though. Take Soldier: 76 for example - his Ultimate also destroys people who aren't in cover. Obviously not as fast, but I'd argue that Soldier's Ultimate is far more effective across a game than the rather hit and miss attack that D.VA has.

I don't really have a gripe with any of the Overwatch cast when I play against them. Sure, a lot of them can be frustrating, but most of the time I find myself responsible for them being frustrating. Mei froze me? I didn't keep my distance like I should have. Junkrat popped me with his RIP Tyre? I wasn't paying enough attention to hear it approaching, or thinking about moving away from where he might be guiding it (i.e. into the group I'm with).

I think the most frustrating Ultimate has to be Reindhart's Earth Shatter - he can deploy that in a split second and you won't see it coming, and once you're down, only terrible execution by the rest of his team will save you. At least with Mei's Ultimate you get some warning (and possibly some chance to escape before you're frozen).

I think Ultimates are meant to be this way though; if they were all abilities that could be very easily countered, they probably wouldn't be powerful enough to merit their use compared to your basic abilities.

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:


Interesting. Although honestly, unless you're Reindhart, the best option is always to dive for cover when a D.VA Ult is heading your way.

Not as a Zarya, you don't!


On Ultimates in general- They're interesting. I find they come in a few categories:

The Area Clear

Self Destruct
Dragonstrike
R.I.P. Tire
Blizzard
Deadeye
Barrage
Death Blossom
Whole Hog
Tactical Visor
Primal Rage

These Ults are meant for moving enemies away from a zone- either by killing them, pushing them, or just threatening them into running away. As you can see, there's a lot of them. 10, in fact. Almost half the Ultimates in the game.

Now, I know what you're thinking- "Primal rage? Deadeye? Those are nothing like Self Destruct or Blizzard! (And yes, Blizzard is an Area Clear- it's also an Enemy Debuff, but that's neither here nor there.) BUT! What are these Ults used for? For clearing the area. Reaper even says so in his Ult. What do you do when you hear one of these (and aren't a Tank)? You run for cover, generally abandoning the objective, at least for a time. Granted, a lot of folks' first reaction is to look for the squishy to kill, but still...


The Enemy Debuff

Earthshatter
EMP
Graviton Surge
Blizzard

These ults are primarily used to remove something the enemy team has- whether that's Abilities (as in EMP) or movement (as in all the rest). These are used primarily for setting up team kills, or very occasionally closing off a chokepoint.



The Ally Buff

Transcendence
Infra-Sight
Teleporter and Shield Generator
Resurrect
Sound Barrier
Nano Boost

These Ults protect and boost allies. Pretty simple concept, very difficult to use well. They can be used offensively, as Nano Boost almost always is, or to help push a point using Transcendence or Sound Barrier, or Defensively in response to an enemy wombo-combo or a team-wipe, as Teleporter and Resurrect are used.



The Self Buff

Configuration:Tank
Call Mech
Dragonblade
Tactical Visor
Molten Core
Infra-Sight
Primal Rage

I chose not to put most of the Ally Buffs that also affect yourself on here because generally those are saved for when they'll do the most help with other players, but I put Widowmaker's Ult up because it honestly benefits her to a much greater degree than it benefits other heroes (which isn't a small amount either). These Ults are used with Enemy Debuffs to attempt Team Kills, or sometimes used for personal survivability, so that you can stay on the point or potentially hold off a push on your own- though they're just as often used to initiate a push themselves.


And then there's poor little Tracer. You'll notice Pulse Bomb is missing from any of the above lists- and that's because it's not really much of an Ultimate, is it? More of a 3rd ability with a really long cooldown.

The Roadhog ult vs D.VA ult is still dumb. She can charge into Roadhogs ult when it's already in affect. Meka does not get knockback as soon as Baby.VA is out. Roadhog is really slow during his ult... meaning seeing Meka charge in is certain death.

As for Earth Shatter... you'll either need a friendly Reinhardt shield to block it or let D.VA's defence matrix eat it. Earth Shater punishes bad teamwork and positioning for a part.

Anvildude wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:


Interesting. Although honestly, unless you're Reindhart, the best option is always to dive for cover when a D.VA Ult is heading your way.

Not as a Zarya, you don't!

True that!

Now, I know what you're thinking- "Primal rage? Deadeye? Those are nothing like Self Destruct or Blizzard! (And yes, Blizzard is an Area Clear- it's also an Enemy Debuff, but that's neither here nor there.) BUT! What are these Ults used for? For clearing the area. Reaper even says so in his Ult. What do you do when you hear one of these (and aren't a Tank)? You run for cover, generally abandoning the objective, at least for a time. Granted, a lot of folks' first reaction is to look for the squishy to kill, but still...

Hit the nail on the head here, I think

And then there's poor little Tracer. You'll notice Pulse Bomb is missing from any of the above lists- and that's because it's not really much of an Ultimate, is it? More of a 3rd ability with a really long cooldown.

Pulse Bomb is best used in combo with something else, such as Graviton Surge; however, on its own it can still be very potent, and can easily turn the tide of a battle if you stick it to a particularly annoying Tank or Support.

The thing about Soldier 76's ultimate is that you can shoot him to tiny pieces when he's using it, and he's not killing everyone simultaneously. Sure, it's got the potential to be murderous, but it's a higher-risk ability than D.Va's ultimate. Soldier's also somewhat scales inversely with player skill; if you've already got near-perfect aim, the aimbot doesn't do that much for you.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The thing about Soldier 76's ultimate is that you can shoot him to tiny pieces when he's using it, and he's not killing everyone simultaneously. Sure, it's got the potential to be murderous, but it's a higher-risk ability than D.Va's ultimate. Soldier's also somewhat scales inversely with player skill; if you've already got near-perfect aim, the aimbot doesn't do that much for you.

I'd say that D.VA still puts herself at risk since she's jumping out of a 600HP Mech with defensive capabilities to become a 150HP character with nothing but a Light Gun for protection, which can make her a ripe target for anyone who can catch her at range. And yes, she can jump back into a Mech 3 seconds later, but most of the time that'd be unwise if the enemy team is still around, as you'll take damage out in the open as you complete the animation for calling one down, and once you're ready to go, you've probably lost a tonne of HP.

Don't forget that such players with great accuracy can also benefit from the faster reload and seeking Helix Rockets that Tactical Visor provides - still a good Ult regardless of your accuracy

This is why I play Mercy as my "main". Few people ever complain about Mercy, and most people can appreciate a good Mercy rez

 General Annoyance wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The thing about Soldier 76's ultimate is that you can shoot him to tiny pieces when he's using it, and he's not killing everyone simultaneously. Sure, it's got the potential to be murderous, but it's a higher-risk ability than D.Va's ultimate. Soldier's also somewhat scales inversely with player skill; if you've already got near-perfect aim, the aimbot doesn't do that much for you.

I'd say that D.VA still puts herself at risk since she's jumping out of a 600HP Mech with defensive capabilities to become a 150HP character with nothing but a Light Gun for protection, which can make her a ripe target for anyone who can catch her at range. And yes, she can jump back into a Mech 3 seconds later, but most of the time that'd be unwise if the enemy team is still around, as you'll take damage out in the open as you complete the animation for calling one down, and once you're ready to go, you've probably lost a tonne of HP.

...lol.

"She's totally vulnerable for the brief time before the animation starts, after she gets her pseudo-super back after just supering."

Don't forget that such players with great accuracy can also benefit from the faster reload and seeking Helix Rockets that Tactical Visor provides - still a good Ult regardless of your accuracy

You seem to have missed the point.

Tactical Visor is a super that goes DOWN in usefulness based upon how skilled a player is. A good player using Visor is no different than a bad player using Visor. They both get their targeting overridden and rounds get sent out.

Visor needs a buff as to what it actually does, given that its effects are questionable.

 Kanluwen wrote:
"She's totally vulnerable for the brief time before the animation starts, after she gets her pseudo-super back after just supering."

Most D.VA's who boost into an Ultimate will likely get shredded after since they're now out in the open. And if she does get into her Mech, you have about 3 seconds to shoot the crap out of it without her being able to do anything.

You seem to have missed the point.

Tactical Visor is a super that goes DOWN in usefulness based upon how skilled a player is. A good player using Visor is no different than a bad player using Visor. They both get their targeting overridden and rounds get sent out.

Visor needs a buff as to what it actually does, given that its effects are questionable.

Tactical Visor increases the effective range of the Pulse Rifle too, so that all your shots get on target when you use it. Combine that with a split second reload and Helix Rockets being able to track their targets, and it's useful to you no matter how good you can aim with the Rifle out of it.

It's about how you use the Ultimate too - you can easily be put down when you have it since you become a big glowing target for the enemy. A good Soldier: 76 will know the right time to pop it, something that a not so good Soldier player may not consider.

Besides, very accurate players should consider McCree over Soldier: 76, as his Peacekeeper has a much higher damage potential than the Pulse Rifle.

 War Kitten wrote:
This is why I play Mercy as my "main". Few people ever complain about Mercy, and most people can appreciate a good Mercy rez

I wasn't aware that there was such a loathing for D.VA now, if there is; it seems like people would prefer that she returns to her Beta state, where DM was a non toggle cooldown ability, Self Destruct can kill her and the timer on it was long enough for almost everyone to move clear of it.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"She's totally vulnerable for the brief time before the animation starts, after she gets her pseudo-super back after just supering."

Most D.VA's who boost into an Ultimate will likely get shredded after since they're now out in the open. And if she does get into her Mech, you have about 3 seconds to shoot the crap out of it without her being able to do anything.

Remember that time you said "D.Va just is used to clear the area"?

So if a D.Va boosts into her Ult, and everyone clears out, is it really acceptable that her catching turrets or just removing HP from a shield still gives her back her mech?

And, again, if everyone has been "cleared out"...who's going to be attacking her mech for that 3 seconds?

You seem to have missed the point.

Tactical Visor is a super that goes DOWN in usefulness based upon how skilled a player is. A good player using Visor is no different than a bad player using Visor. They both get their targeting overridden and rounds get sent out.

Visor needs a buff as to what it actually does, given that its effects are questionable.

Tactical Visor increases the effective range of the Pulse Rifle too, so that all your shots get on target when you use it. Combine that with a split second reload and Helix Rockets being able to track their targets, and it's useful to you no matter how good you can aim with the Rifle out of it.

It's about how you use the Ultimate too - you can easily be put down when you have it since you become a big glowing target for the enemy. A good Soldier: 76 will know the right time to pop it, something that a not so good Soldier player may not consider.

So where's the big glowing target or ability to shut down a D.Va ultimate?

Besides, very accurate players should consider McCree over Soldier: 76, as his Peacekeeper has a much higher damage potential than the Pulse Rifle.

You know how this game works, right?

If someone picks McCree, nobody else can.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Remember that time you said "D.Va just is used to clear the area"?

So if a D.Va boosts into her Ult, and everyone clears out, is it really acceptable that her catching turrets or just removing HP from a shield still gives her back her mech?

And, again, if everyone has been "cleared out"...who's going to be attacking her mech for that 3 seconds?

Well I'd call that a failed Ultimate, so yes. No need to punish a poor play further by allowing them to be shredded (although it may not necessarily be a poor play if it clears the enemy team out of their positions)

Anyone on the high ground or out of the way of the Ultimate already could probably snag her. If everyone's on the point, then it's only natural that the Ultimate is so effective.

So where's the big glowing target or ability to shut down a D.Va ultimate?

Well there is the big Red Triangle telling you to move out of the way, which then goes Orange when you're safe from the blast.

Reindhart's Shield or D.VA's DM can stop it, but there isn't a way to stop it from activating. A lot of Ultimates are like that though.

You know how this game works, right?

If someone picks McCree, nobody else can.

Hanzo? Widowmaker? Or someone completely different - if an Offence has been taken already, chances are the team needs you elsewhere.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Remember that time you said "D.Va just is used to clear the area"?

So if a D.Va boosts into her Ult, and everyone clears out, is it really acceptable that her catching turrets or just removing HP from a shield still gives her back her mech?

And, again, if everyone has been "cleared out"...who's going to be attacking her mech for that 3 seconds?

Well I'd call that a failed Ultimate, so yes. No need to punish a poor play further by allowing them to be shredded.

Anyone on the high ground or out of the way of the Ultimate already could probably snag her. If everyone's on the point, then it's only natural that the Ultimate is so effective.

You've played on Overwatch's maps, right?

There's MAYBE one map where your scenario would happen. Pretending that such a thing is "standard tactics" is wildly disingenuous.

So where's the big glowing target or ability to shut down a D.Va ultimate?

Well there is the big Red Triangle telling you to move out of the way, which then goes Orange when you're safe from the blast.

Reindhart's Shield or D.VA's DM can stop it, but there isn't a way to stop it from activating. A lot of Ultimates are like that though.

You can deflect Zarya's ult as Genji, Zenyatta can be shut down by throwing Ana's grenade at his friendlies(blocks healing), you can destroy Torbjorn's turret or sleep Torbjorn to remove MC, you can shoot a Riptire, McCree can be killed and it uses his Ultimate whether or not he actually fired, etc.

D.Va literally cannot be stopped outside of "Reinhart's shield or Defense Matrix". Her mech needs to be destroyable while it's detonating.

End of story. If you disagree with that, then you need to stop playing D.Va and start playing other characters.

You know how this game works, right?

If someone picks McCree, nobody else can.

Hanzo? Widowmaker? Or someone completely different - if an Offence has been taken already, chances are the team needs you elsewhere.

Widowmaker's garbage and Hanzo's basically always taken right off the bat.

Try again.

First off, talk levelly about this the next time you respond; I'm only interested in the debate, not trying to get one over on you for some stupid score. Otherwise, there is no point in us continuing this conversation.

Moving on:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You've played on Overwatch's maps, right?

There's MAYBE one map where your scenario would happen. Pretending that such a thing is "standard tactics" is wildly disingenuous.

Well it does depend on the scenario like all things. However I'm not sure which scenario you're referring to - the one where nobody dies from D.VA's Ultimate, or the one where they're forced to clear an objective from it, meaning that the D.VA's team can move in and secure it?

You can deflect Zarya's ult as Genji, Zenyatta can be shut down by throwing Ana's grenade at his friendlies(blocks healing), you can destroy Torbjorn's turret or sleep Torbjorn to remove MC, you can shoot a Riptire, McCree can be killed and it uses his Ultimate whether or not he actually fired, etc.

D.Va literally cannot be stopped outside of "Reinhart's shield or Defense Matrix". Her mech needs to be destroyable while it's detonating.

I'd still count that as a shutdown, in the similar vein that you'd shutdown Transcendence after it has been activated by tossing a Biotic Grenade; either way, you're stopping that Ultimate from doing any considerable damage to your team.

End of story. If you disagree with that, then you need to stop playing D.Va and start playing other characters.

This is a childish argument, but for the record, Lucio, Soldier: 76, Zarya, Tracer, Mei, Bastion, Mercy and Symmetra are in my regular character rotation. D.VA is simply my favourite to play, but I'll happily give her up for other players, or when the team doesn't need another Tank.

Widowmaker's garbage and Hanzo's basically always taken right off the bat.

Try again.

An accurate player as Widowmaker will make mincemeat of the enemy team. Same goes to Hanzo. Neither of those Characters are garbage - it's just that people have got too wrapped up in the meta that's probably irrelevant to them if they consider those characters to be worthless, since they probably only consider that because they, or other players in their bands, can't play her very well.

 General Annoyance wrote:
First off, talk levelly about this the next time you respond; I'm only interested in the debate, not trying to get one over on you for some stupid score. Otherwise, there is no point in us continuing this conversation.

Realistically, there's no point continuing it since clearly seem to be a D.Va fanboy.

Anyways:

Moving on:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You've played on Overwatch's maps, right?

There's MAYBE one map where your scenario would happen. Pretending that such a thing is "standard tactics" is wildly disingenuous.

Well it does depend on the scenario like all things. However I'm not sure which scenario you're referring to - the one where nobody dies from D.VA's Ultimate, or the one where they're forced to clear an objective from it, meaning that the D.VA's team can move in and secure it?

The one where, as you claim, you are able to have someone out of the blast radius and have LOS to D.Va to kill her before she gets back into her mech or to start damaging her mech before she can get active again.

You can deflect Zarya's ult as Genji, Zenyatta can be shut down by throwing Ana's grenade at his friendlies(blocks healing), you can destroy Torbjorn's turret or sleep Torbjorn to remove MC, you can shoot a Riptire, McCree can be killed and it uses his Ultimate whether or not he actually fired, etc.

D.Va literally cannot be stopped outside of "Reinhart's shield or Defense Matrix". Her mech needs to be destroyable while it's detonating.

I'd still count that as a shutdown, in the similar vein that you'd shutdown Transcendence after it has been activated by tossing a Biotic Grenade; either way, you're stopping that Ultimate from doing any considerable damage to your team.

Except both of those are highly situational. If Reinhart has already taken damage on his shield, your team is boned as the blast wipes the shield and keeps going.

Additionally, you're not actually "shutting down" Transcendence. You're blocking healing to the intended targets.

End of story. If you disagree with that, then you need to stop playing D.Va and start playing other characters.

This is a childish argument, but for the record, Lucio, Soldier: 76, Zarya, Tracer, Mei, Bastion, Mercy and Symmetra are in my regular character rotation. D.VA is simply my favourite to play, but I'll happily give her up for other players, or when the team doesn't need another Tank.

That's nice.

It doesn't change the fact that the majority of your posts in this thread are nothing but defending D.Va's broken Ult and talking about how it doesn't matter because of "comp play".

Widowmaker's garbage and Hanzo's basically always taken right off the bat.

Try again.

An accurate player as Widowmaker will make mincemeat of the enemy team.

An "accurate player as Widowmaker" can be countered by lucky shots from any character. I regularly put down Widowmakers as Genji with shuriken, Soldier with Helix Rockets, and even Torbjorn with the alt fire.

Same goes to Hanzo. Neither of those Characters are garbage - it's just that people have got too wrapped up in the meta that's probably irrelevant to them if they consider those characters to be worthless, since they probably only consider that because they, or other players in their bands, can't play her very well.

Never said Hanzo was garbage. Said that he's "basically always taken right off the bat".

Have fun discussing this with whoever, because I'm out. Overwatch is a poorly done TF2 knock-off that just gets love because it's Blizzard.