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It is unfortunate, but somewhat (!) known towards the end of the campaign.

At this point, the only mostly relevant stretch goals most would miss is the 2 free heroes, I think?

Unless I'm missing something?

Oh well, it's a shame. I caught the message about being able to upgrade with stretch goals, but missed anything subsequent, so went in for $1 to get a seat at the table.

With no stretch goals and having to pay shipping, not really seeing any benefit to upgrading prior to release. Looks like I'll wait on retail.

Bioptic wrote:
So - you are not eligible for any stretch goals unless you pledged at a specific $98 level or above, not even if you upgrade in the pledge manager. Contrary to what their own employee stated while the Kickstarter was live. They do not view pledge manager funds as contributing to the campaign, despite them getting a greater cut of the money at a time of year where (presumably) people have more available to spend. I would imagine that they would also not put these funds towards the $422 required for their next stretch goal. Despite not being affected by this, I really do not see this sort of attitude in a positive light.

I'm still not positive that is the final answer on the subject though. I honestly believe it was done to stop the bickering and to not give any 'false hopes' in case they do change their mind. Depending on if they go the normal pledge manager route, unless they do their PM in waves, they aren't really programmed to determine the difference between Assault Trooper Pledge at the time of KS and someone who was a $1 Pledge an upgraded to Assault Trooper. Once you upgrade, you are part of that pledge typically. I will say since today has been a pretty bad day (for me), the tone I 'read' in that comment is probably a bit more harsher than I would have read normally on a different day and did catch me a bit by surprise.

I do understand the reasoning and purpose behind it. They also aren't the first KS nor will they be the last one to do something similar. I also understand the disappointment if as a $1 backer that was all you could pledge but couldn't do more. I dropped my KoW down to a $1 since in that campaign I doubt my dollars would of mattered much so I could up my Antenocitis KS pledge. I also know that previously that would still get me access to the pledge manager. However if they chose not to give me stretch goals, it would suck but it wouldn't necessarily change that the KS package is still a good value. The same can be said about Fallen Frontiers that no matter what , even without stretch goals, you can't beat the value of high quality resin miniatures at $3.82 - $3.94 per miniature (with shipping) anywhere. It just can't be done. I understand that the timing of the KS wasn't perfect given the holidays and other KS going on at the time. However no one is getting a bad deal or investment for the money even with missing a couple stretch goals. I can still hope for positive change though, hopefully by a more contributing community vs the bickering comments... which I have to say are a bit more passive aggressive then even the best Dakka ones. ^_^

I also want to add, choosing your game box was not a stretch goal in the normal sense. I know a couple $1 backers were only concerned with losing that option and they'll still have it. It was a global unlock across the board to all pledge levels. Those people will still be able to choose their Core Box factions and won't be stuck with only a Ares vs Riffs box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
IAt this point, the only mostly relevant stretch goals most would miss is the 2 free heroes, I think?

That is correct, those are the only relevant stretch goals 2 free heroes ($24-30 depending on which heroes you picked). They are still eligible for Black Freeday options. So if someone upgraded to Commander they still get 3 Free Heroes. Or if someone wanted to get 2 Factions they would get 2 free heroes. They also still have access to the Cyber Monday reduced price for the Merc heroes as well.

Triple9 wrote:
With no stretch goals and having to pay shipping, not really seeing any benefit to upgrading prior to release. Looks like I'll wait on retail.

Even without stretch goals you can't beat their loss leader pricing for their Core Box. Even with the cost of shipping, that will never be beat by any retail price even online with a markdown/discount.

There was an unexpected surprise that came in the mail this week. I ordered one of Scale75 75mm miniatures. I normally do this with Kickstarters that have an existing line for multiple reasons. The main reason is so I can review their current work to have a baseline, develop realistic expectations to a similar product I'll be receiving later from them. There are a lot of Kickstarters that I get disappointed because you expected something and it didn't match the expectations. There are also almost an equally amount of Kickstarters that are the complete opposite, where you expect something not horrible, but expected the quality to not be as high because its a new(er) company but then end up getting something great. I decided that I'm going to do a review (we'll be looking for volunteers for people to submit articles as I don't KS everything and its good to have different opinions) on board games and Kickstarters with information about expectations, how they do in the campaign and then the final product review after receiving. Then after 30 days a final wrap up and final thoughts on them as a whole. I know individually we all kind of do that, there is information about processes scattered about but I wanted to try to get it centralized so on new campaigns with the same company people have a better idea of what they are getting into. It won't be limited to just Kickstarters, we'll be reviewing other things as well. Another reason for the new site is that my children also want to get into gaming and wanted to do reviews from their perspective. But I digress...

I ended up ordering Fallen Frontiers - Sayx: Diane Tianseen from Scale75, which is a 75mm metal miniature... that came with an added surprise.


Front, back and side of the box.


Inside the box is another box and inside that is a bountiful surprise. ^_^


This is before any cleanup. After I took the pictures, I washed and scrubbed them with a toothbrush. Once I finish putting her together I'll take some more pictures, then do a primer and pictures again before I start actually painting her.

The Unexpected Surprise:

Nice, looks the transition went quite well.

You got 7 free figures? That's one expensive freebie... Any idea why, or do they just give it to everyone?

Probably a thank you for amount of comments help Jack/Garage/Dark provided in both here and on KC comments.

Those resin pics look great! Nice, and thanks for sharing

Just placed an order, hoping maybe they'll reward more of us who have promoted their game both times

Mymearan wrote:
You got 7 free figures? That's one expensive freebie... Any idea why, or do they just give it to everyone?

Throughout the campaign I have been talking in messages with their KS team. I would tone back some comments, send some suggestions their way for them to think about. It was how I knew there was a change coming to the Core Box, just wasn't sure how it was going to happen. During the campaign, I had ordered the Diane 75mm to paint, and was messaged by their production manager. I had made a post that I was going to order one and actually have been wanting to for awhile just never really had a good excuse. I actually looked at some of the other lines to see which ones to paint but nothing matched the look I liked more than the Fallen Frontier... I mean what's not to like. ^_^ They had proposed that they refund the money, so instead I could invest the amount in the campaign to buy some add-ons and if I paid shipping they would send me the 35mm figure to be painted and promoted.

The honest response was that I'd be happy to do that but I was really looking forward to painting a 75mm to paint. I've usually done 28mm-35mm and other than vehicles haven't really painted anything larger. I've done one 54mm miniature and 1/8th scale but wanted a 75mm. I also wanted to do a bust version but that will be waiting until Infamy. The amount I paid wasn't something that was going to effect the amount I pledged on KS. I usually alot a certain amount to KS and hobbies which are different amounts. Although I went a bit over budget this month. I had possibly expected the extra 35mm Dianne but was not expecting the rest. I did think the 75mm version was in resin but before it was sent they let me know it was not. Not sure if they just weren't sure if I'd be happy with it, which I am, or if it was just more a method to promote their miniatures. Some of the promotions they did with the painters was really great, if only they were out before they launched it would have helped.

I wouldn't exactly call it freebies. There is some work involved around them as I will be doing a review, painting and using them to promote the product line. You would think that is easy but it actually turned out to be more work than I would of anticipated. Something I noticed through-out this KS and others was that we tend to refer to 28mm as a scale even though it really isn't a scale. There is also a broad spectrum of what that means. I plan on doing pictures of various miniatures from WH40K, Infinity, etc and putting them in a lineup together similar to merzo.net where there is a spaceship comparison. I will be measuring them with a caliper to get accurate measurements, then placing them on a ruled background appropriately for easy comparison. Fallen Frontiers has also been one of the KS to join next to Hex MMO TCG, Battle Systems and Antenocitis Workshop of being the most I've ever pledged for a KS. Although from the work I did with Cryptozoic Entertainment at conventions for their WoW TCG tournaments, game demoing, etc I did end up getting a free pledge from the Hex MMO TCG KS which went to my wife.

Those 35mm resin miniatures?

They look really good - and give me more confidence that the end product here will be as nice as I thought they would be!

 Alpharius wrote:
Those 35mm resin miniatures?

They look really good - and give me more confidence that the end product here will be as nice as I thought they would be!

Yes they are their resin versions in their scale. I have another studio light and umbrella coming in the mail so should be able to get some better lighting for the pictures.

For $4 miniatures the quality is excellent, yeah I know that is KS prices. After working with them a bit the $15 price seems fine, can see them retailing for probably $25-30. The quality is actually better than their 75mm version but that is to be expected. I forgot when you start working with larger scales, there are more gaps to fill and take care of. I had to break out the green stuff to do a bit of gap filling on the 75mm but having worked with 1/6th resin kits before it was nothing new. I start priming them over the next couple days, then I'll really be able to see any of the imperfections on them. There were not a lot of mold lines, there is minimal flashing which most came off from washing. There are a couple thin points on some pieces, mainly the trigger guard for Bitsie. Not sure if it broke from me scrubbing them or one of them was that way. It also looks like Dianne didn't have her holster. I thought about converting a holster from 40K for it. Interesting thing is that her gun is bigger in the 35mm version, which makes the scale odd for a holster unless the barrel is sticking through (maybe that is why it wasn't there, still being updated?). Other than that I'm really happy with the detail. There is a bit of room if you want to adjust the pose a little bit, even more ability if you are decent with green stuff.

There should be no issues using existing 28mm terrain at all. The miniature line seems the most compatible with Infinity, Wild West Exodus, Kingdom Death (remind me the most of them in terms of scale), Warzone Ressurection, and Relic Knights in terms of size, mass and look. You could make them super soldiers in terms of 40K but they do look a bit odd next to 40K Marines... the marines look really ugly, squat and fat. They could mingle with Dark Eldar or Eldar probably better. Mercs even though 35mm, are kind of between WH40K and Infinity in terms of compatibility. They are heroic and bulky like Marines but better looking and because of their poses it tends to make them lower in overall size. They could mix with some of the Reaper miniatures, but any truescale 28mm but then again most of us knew that. Truescale barely matches up with WH40K at the small spectrum.



Ares: Bitsie "Operator 31" :41.68mm from the bottom of her feet to the top of her head. 38.45 from the bottom of her feet to eye level.
Ares: Heavy Weapon : 38.85mm from the bottom of her feet to the top of her head. 35.67 from the bottom of her feet to eye level.
Sayx: Dianne Tianseen : 38.84mm from the bottom of her feet to the top of her head. 34.05 from the bottom of her feet to eye level.
Sayx: Tarko Stahlen : 38.78mm from the bottom of her feet to the top of her head. 35.80 from the bottom of her feet to eye level.
Riffs: Sihlas Fenn : 36.31mm from the bottom of her feet to the top of her head. 31.03 from the bottom of her feet to eye level.
Riffs: Berserker : 35.10mm from the bottom of her feet to the top of her head. 29.35 from the bottom of her feet to eye level.
Harvesters: Sphynx : 38.90mm from the bottom of her feet to the top of her head. 36.49 from the bottom of her feet to eye level.

As soon as I get them primed I'll put them on temporary bases and be able to take some more comparison photos with other miniatures.
Comparison Photos:

That was a lot of pics, and a lot of work - thanks!

Makes me think of SM as too small for the role they play.

Thanks for showing all of those pics Dark Severance, the casting quality looks good!

Some interesting info:

Creator SCALE GAMES LLC 8 minutes ago

Hi all.
The collected money till now is $ 97,710.82 only.
There are lots of failed transactions.
Please, check your accounts to avoid failures.
Today is the last day to try to get the money.
If your transaction is failure and you don´t know why, contact with us to look for another payment method.

The campaign ended at $109,578, so that means approximately 10% of the pledges failed, which I think is fairly typical?

sounds about right for a big project (small ones tend to have more experienced/committed backers who are more on top of potential problems),

the key question is how much effort they are prepared to put in working with each individually to sort things out, if they work hard they should be able to drop it down to 2-3%

 Alpharius wrote:
The campaign ended at $109,578, so that means approximately 10% of the pledges failed, which I think is fairly typical?

During the initial grace period provided by Amazon that is usually about right for larger projects. The average is about 5% when you take all projects into consideration but large projects tend to have a larger amount of failures. Hex MMO TCG had 17,765 backers with $2,278,255 and it was roughly 10% failed pledges.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
the key question is how much effort they are prepared to put in working with each individually to sort things out, if they work hard they should be able to drop it down to 2-3%

Exactly! You will tend to always have 2-3% that will always fail no matter what for various reasons. Some are buyers remorse so they change their card info so it fails, I'm sure others have their reasons. Providing they send an update, email the individuals and message them they should definitely be able to lower it from the 10% to 2-3%. They already stated they would work with people with Paypal so providing they keep working at it they should get the amount.

I hope they don't do what Heavy Gear did though and say you need to "re-unlock" stretch goals. I'm sorry but that was bad move on their part. As part of a project you should have already planned for the missed backers and funding, thus stretch goals should be set appropriately. On the plus side, at least for Fallen Frontiers, this may make them rethink unlocking stretch goals in the PM and opening the PM to more people.

Well the good news is the $100K Stretch Goal will not be affected. They are working on an update but they did state in the comments section:

Creator SCALE GAMES LLC
Hi all, we are preparing an update to clear up things. But dont worry about the 100K Stretch Goal since it will be added no matter the final amount collected.
Thanks for your patience and support.

Update #43

Dec 18 2014
Payment period is over. What´s next?
3 comments
4 likes

The payment period through Amazon Payments is over.

What happens now?...

- During January, we will update you on KS and send out the invitations to our pledge manager system.

- With the pledge manager, you can add new pledge levels, add-ons , and make payments (including shipping)

- Pledge manager will remain open for 1-2 months so you may adjust your selections or add on new ones.

- We will update with miniature renders an as soon as they are modelled.

- Once closed, only your address can be adjusted. This is done to collect final numbers for production.

- After it has been closed, we will continue to update you via Kickstarter, and let you know when shipping will be prepared.

- Once we are ready to begin shipping, we will remind everyone to check their addresses to ensure they are correct, and ensure everyone has paid and solve any remaining issues.

If your payment have failed or you missed the campaign and interested we need you to do a few things...

- Send us an email at info@fallenfrontiers.com

- Title the email: HERE COMES A NEW BACKER! if you are new to this campaign or BACKER PAYMENT FAILED if you have had problems with Amazon payments.

- In the email, supply your name, country and desired pledge level.

- Once we launch our pledge manager, we will manually add you and send an invite via email.

- You will then be able to select the pledges you'd like, add-on anything extra, add shipping, and make payments via Paypal.

Pledge manager is live! Just got the mail. Last day is March 31st. This might mean I can save up the money before it disappears..,

It is one of the best and easiest to use Pledge Managers I've ever seen - well done!

It is indeed very good!

Pledge manager is fantastic. The loss of stretch goals hurts a lot however so still mulling it over. That and I'm not sure I'd ever want to play the game with the current community. :-P

Weren't the only relevant stretch goals two heroes? Not that big of a loss.

Mymearan wrote:
Weren't the only relevant stretch goals two heroes? Not that big of a loss.

Pretty much!

So worse case scenario - a 'loss' of $30!

Anyone else having problems with the pledge manager, every time I attemp to pay with PayPal, the program shuts down saying there was an unhandeled exception?

Try a different device or a different browser, that usually has a good chance of solving that sort of problem

Per the comments section the PayPal problem is a known isseu, though they see to think it is a USA based backer issue only?

They'll let us know when it is sorted.

Yep definitely an issue, at least seems related to US since the backers that get it are in the US. I probably won't lock mine in for at least a month or more though. I am hoping to see some renders of the vehicles at least. Right now I don't plan on getting them but depending on how they shape up, that could change.