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squidhills wrote:
"Fighter" is a class. Two-weapon fighter, two-handed fighter, and sword and board are builds of Fighter.

According to what? The Uniform Code of RPG Design passed by Congress and adopted by all the state legislatures? No. That break down of "class" and "build" is not the law that must be applied to all games, it's just a design choice made for a certain game. So for example, DAO had "builds" and so (as you point out) needed attributes. I am pointing out that the design flows from the opposite direction: first you choose to have attributes (for the sake of "customizability"/game mastery) and then you justify them by designing builds defined by attribute-driven powers/skills. This design pattern is then mirrored by the way players build characters in the game: they spend time managing attributes in order to unlock or optimally use attribute-based powers/skills. But players are not creating the builds ("making any character they want"); they are being carefully guided by clues in the powers/skills description in arriving at the predetermined options -- in effect, indistinguishable from class. This is why I say game mastery gives the illusion of customizability.

squidhills wrote:
Don't tell me I can make whatever character I want, but then tell me I have to be X race, with X class, and (in the case of DA:2) with X name and locked into X plot that can't be altered in any meaningful way.

You're preaching to the choir. This sums up a lot of the problems I have with BioWare's approach to RPGs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I can run down the list as well if anyone would like.

Please do, when you have a mo.

So for Multiplayer there are 12 characters at launch. Each class(Warrior, Rogue, and Mage) have four characters.
There are two male and two female characters per class and there are two Dwarf characters, two Elf characters, one Qunari, and the remainder are Humans...for now.
They have additional characters planned to release two or three weeks after launch, and just like Mass Effect 3's MP, they plan on them being free DLCs.

Warriors
Tamar the Reaver.(Human female) Two handed weapon.
Korbin the Legionnaire.(Dwarf male) 1h+shield. Has a "bulwark" ability with his shield and can apparently absorb a certain amount of damage when "Guarding" a teammate. He gets additional points for doing so.
The Templar(I have not seen a name listed yet; human female). 1h+shield.
The Katari(unnamed as well; Qunari male). 2h weapon.

Mage
Neria the Keeper.(Druidish character. Elf female)
Rion the Elementalist.(Male Human)
The Arcane Warrior.(Elf male)
The Necromancer.(Human female)

Rogue
Hall the Archer(human male). High damage bow character.
Argent the Assassin(human female). High damage, high stealth, double daggers character.
The Alchemist(Dwarf female). Lots of dirty tricks. Double daggers but bombs and poisons as well.
The Hunter(human male). Basically nothing is known about this guy right now. Assumption is currently that he's going to have traps and poisons in addition to his bow. Also speculation that he is a "Fog Warrior" with the possibility for some light magic abilities.

Kan, how does MP work? I never played it or read anything about it for ME3.

I can't say for sure on DA:I as I'm avoiding everything about the gameplay(I want to be surprised and I usually customize my controller layout heavily) but from what I've been able to gather:

You and two other players do a dungeon crawl consisting of four to five "areas", with the fifth being a boss fight. You will be rewarded currency and loot based upon the difficulty you played on and your performance.

There are also "secret areas" within the level that can only be accessed by certain classes for the party(I've heard of: a locked door that the Rogue can pick, a wall that a Warrior can bust through, a runic ward that a Mage has to disarm) and another "secret area" where a particularly difficult enemy is guarding a treasure hoard.

There are going to be blind boxes that you buy with in-game currency(or if you want to, you can use real money. I've gone this route with ME3's multiplayer after each DLC dropped if I liked it; would buy a certain amount of real money boxes just as a show of support since EA and BioWare got that money directly) which will give you items for characters.

Apparently the crafting system is in effect for MP where if you want to get a specific character that you do not have, you have to craft their armor. Alternatively you might get the character unlocked from buying chests.

Also the character DLCs are going to contain new "campaigns"(each of the maps is referred to as a "campaign" since it is multi-stage and has a story tied to it) in addition to the characters.

This thread is probably the best thing you can find right now with information. The poster running the OP is doing a great job updating it.

It is indeed a Co-op Dungeon crawl.

You get to customize your characters gear and such. I recall there's a lot of gear available to choose from right at the start, so you can immediately customize them.

I dunno. Reviews are good, friends who have played the trial on Xbone how said it is good; I'm just not seeing the whole "it's not Origins" argument as putting me off. Then again, maybe that's because it always has a stigma attached to it that because a game wasn't made exactly like another game that automatically makes it a failure, which I always find ridiculous. Looking forward to Friday. I would suggest reserving judgment for actual play instead of the knee-jerk reactions of "one guy said it was terribad so I won't try it." I will be buying it anyway so would gladly let anyone use shared play to give it a spin if they are on PS4.

It's not "terribad". It's mediocre and was poorly ported.

It looks like the release date has actually been moved FORWARD in the UK now. As far as I can see, it's going to come out on Tuesday now, NOT Thursday.

Which makes me pretty chipper, as I'll be able to play the game a bit before going on holiday.

thenoobbomb wrote:It is indeed a Co-op Dungeon crawl.

I'm happy to hear this.

The ME3 approach of boxes to unlock stuff already makes me remember how much time I had to invest to get the characters I wanted to play, though. Why, oh, why, couldn't they just let us use our SP characters? I'm going to assume we cannot customise their looks and names either? I cannot get behind the reasoning of such decisions.

Still, co-op dungeon crawl sounds very good, and at least the characters revealed so far fit about 3/5 of our Dragon Age P&P group.

Manchu wrote:But players are not creating the builds ("making any character they want"); they are being carefully guided by clues in the powers/skills description in arriving at the predetermined options -- in effect, indistinguishable from class. This is why I say game mastery gives the illusion of customizability.

My first instinct was to protest, but upon closer examination this is more true than I'd want to admit.

At the same time, I have a tendency to create sub-optimal builds just because of an idée fixe that somehow wormed its way into my fantasy. For example, when I tried Neverwinter Online, I was seriously disappointed that the game would not allow crossbow rogues, because apparently every thief and scoundrel must dual-wield daggers as if there was some magical barrier preventing me from picking up other equipment. I dislike such barriers as a matter of habit, as they instantly make a game feel less immersive due to arbitrary restrictions.

Someone on the BSN posted the two trees for "Hall", the Human Archer.


@Lynata--No. You will not be able to customize these characters beyond their skills or to an extent their armor(each character is supposed to have three "tiers" of armor available to them)
They're supposed to be fully voiced characters with a personality and a backstory. The characters as well interact with each other in the course of your game.

I'm excited.

My most powerful character in Origins was by far my Dual-Wielding Warrior. I'm looking forward to replaying that, in all it's glory!

 Sasori wrote:
I'm excited.

My most powerful character in Origins was by far my Dual-Wielding Warrior. I'm looking forward to replaying that, in all it's glory!

Dual-wielding was broken in Origins, it got even more disgusting in Awakening with the new skills. I loved my two-weapon warrior.

OT - I'm stoked. Trying to decide if I'm going PC or 360; there's a part of me that wants to save up for the Xbone and get it for that...but 400 bones just to play a game seems sorta steep.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm excited.

My most powerful character in Origins was by far my Dual-Wielding Warrior. I'm looking forward to replaying that, in all it's glory!

Played an Arcane Warrior aka "I just solo the game, lulz"?

Has anyone yet to actually play the game?

Yes, Sigvatr has been playing a finalized gold version test copy (in his words).

Gotta love your sarcasm. I'm debating doing a preorder so I can hop on it after work, but I'm actually having fun with SWTOR (the 12x leveling boost is grand) and not sure if DA:3 is going to be another DA:2/ME:3 fiasco.

Reviews are indicating the story is weak and that the gameplay is widely considered to be good.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Gotta love your sarcasm.

None intended, just wanted to deliver accurate information.

 trexmeyer wrote:
not sure if DA:3 is going to be another DA:2/ME:3 fiasco

I doubt it. EA learned its lesson in real time.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Gotta love your sarcasm. I'm debating doing a preorder so I can hop on it after work, but I'm actually having fun with SWTOR (the 12x leveling boost is grand) and not sure if DA:3 is going to be another DA:2/ME:3 fiasco.

Reviews are indicating the story is weak and that the gameplay is widely considered to be good.

Eh, the website and magazine I use for my reviews gave it a 95/100, and said that the story was pretty good, too. I usually find myself agreeing with the particular reviewer, so high hopes!

 trexmeyer wrote:
Has anyone yet to actually play the game?

I'll try to set my personal opinion aside and be as neutral (and spoiler-free!) as possible:

General Gameplay:
- very action-orientated
- similar to DA2
- limited classes (3) and little variation in a class
- satisfying feedback during combat
- enemy variation is a bit lacking (although a LOT better than in DA2!)
- now features "open zones" - not an entirely open world, but rather very large zones with lots of collectibles

Story

- similar to RIFT (MMORPG)
- main quest does not stand out a lot, there's no urgency to follow it
- lots of boring side quests (Collect X of Y)
- some awesome side quests (original setting!)
- feels like a "Playthrough once" game
- characters are rather bland and very clichee
- Story feels very streamlined and narrow with little meaningful choices so far
- severe lack of straight female romances. GAYDEEEEEEEEEEER!

Controls (PC)
- Horrible. The game was ported from console to PC and it feels like it. Very clunky controls, camera is blocky. Inventory management is worse than vanilla Skyrim.

Graphics
- Good! The art style feels very genuine and is recognizable throughout the entire game (so far).
- Animations are very smooth for the most part...
- ...but sometimes look very goofy (Qunari + mage staff) and some are copied over from DA2

Sound
- awesome music! Dynamic music, music in general fits to each area's atmosphere.
- VA are hit-and-miss. Mostly good.

Overall, it's an ok game. It really depends who you are and what you want from a game.

Is it another DA:O? No, it does not even come close to it. It wants to be an improved DA2. It's an action-RPG, not a core RPG.

Is it another DA2? No, it's better. Truth be told, that doesn't mean a lot, but you can see that Bioware tried to improve on that...."game".

What is it now? It's DA3. It caters to the console crowd and flashy combat and not to the fans of DA:O and, in general, old Bioware fans.

RATINGS! WE DEMAND RATIIIIIIIIIIIIINGS!

For DA:O / core RPG fans: 4/10.
For DA2 fans (what?): 9.5/10
For RPG fans in general: 7.5/10
For IGN: 10/10
For Escapist: $$/10

Deduct 1 point for the PC version due to poor controls.

If you like RPGs, buy it. You will play through it once, have a good time, and then move on to another RPG without looking back.

It all depends on what you want from a game. If you like complex stories / characters and tactical combat, stay away from the game. If you just want to have a good time, it's worth the buy.

Actually...DA:I is like your second relationship. DA:O was your first love and you remember all the good times, looking over the bad times you had. DA:I was your second love where you looked for parts of your first one you just couldn't find and while having had a good time, you soon realized you two weren't meant for each other.

How bad is the inventory in comparison to DA2?

DA2 was a solid 7/10 to me. It had its flaws, but it wasn't terrible.

It's very similar to Skyrim without mods. Lists are hard to quickly look over (e.g. too few items on the screen at the same time), you have to do a lot of clicks to scroll through menus / skill trees and every menu has a sub-menu which has a sub-menu....again: lots of unnecessary clicking.

If DA2 was a 7/10 for you, then you will definitely love DA3. It feels like the logical successor to DA2 with a lot of improvements.

I just hope that either Bioware releases a patch that fixes the PC problems or that there are enough awesome modders out there who take care of what Bioware would normally be supposed to do.

Aww, it's only *preload* that's available early in the UK now. It seems I'm not actually able to play the game itself until I come back from holiday.

I am getting pretty excited about this, despite my better judgment. The openness of the world in DAI sounds very exciting. Could this finally be the "waiting for a new Elder Scrolls" game I have always wanted out of Dragon Age?

If it is a combination of better, action oriented gameplay with an open world environment than it will be pretty incredible.

 trexmeyer wrote:
If it is a combination of better, action oriented gameplay with an open world environment than it will be pretty incredible.

It's not fully open world, but yeah, that's DA3 in a nutshell.

Looking forward to this. I liked both other games a lot. I was just gonna go log into my xbone and see if it will let me download it tonight so it's all ready to go tomorrow

And I still have to wait for two days :(

Haven't gotten the game yet. But should I get this or just go back to playing Skyrim? I did like DAO, hated DA2, liked all the old Baldurs Gate, NWN games, liked FO 1,2, NV, 3, etc.

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's very similar to Skyrim without mods. Lists are hard to quickly look over (e.g. too few items on the screen at the same time), you have to do a lot of clicks to scroll through menus / skill trees and every menu has a sub-menu which has a sub-menu....again: lots of unnecessary clicking.

If DA2 was a 7/10 for you, then you will definitely love DA3. It feels like the logical successor to DA2 with a lot of improvements.

I just hope that either Bioware releases a patch that fixes the PC problems or that there are enough awesome modders out there who take care of what Bioware would normally be supposed to do.

A successor to DA2? Okay, I'm out. I'll use that money for a Gundam model, book or something else.

Sining wrote:
Haven't gotten the game yet. But should I get this or just go back to playing Skyrim? I did like DAO, hated DA2, liked all the old Baldurs Gate, NWN games, liked FO 1,2, NV, 3, etc.

Seems like we have very similar taste in games -- barring some kind of catastrophe, I will be playing DAI tonight and will definitely post my first impressions.