Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This weekend I played in a game that was characterized as a "friendly" game. My opponent showed up with 2 Imperial Knights, a squad of devastator Centurions, 10 White Scar bikes with a Chapter master on a bike, an IronClad Dreadnaught, melta in a drop pod, and 2 storm talons.

I guess I should not complain too much. I fought to a draw in the "Lost Contact" maelstrom mission. I had a pretty basic Ork list and did not have a whole lot that I could do to kill any of his stuff. I was just able to scurry around and hope for good draws on the tactical cards.

Seems like that list was far from "friendly". I Suppose if it was not I would have seen the Grey Knight allied with the 2 Imperial Knights with all kinds of psychic stuff going on.

It sounds like the 2 of you have drastically different ideas about what a "friendly" game is. usually in a friendly game I will bring some oddball stuff I don't normally field or try silly tactics just for the heck of it.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
It sounds like the 2 of you have drastically different ideas about what a "friendly" game is. usually in a friendly game I will bring some oddball stuff I don't normally field or try silly tactics just for the heck of it.

And that's the fundamental problem with the pre-game negotiation that's required now to play 40k. Different people have vastly different ideas about what constitutes "fair" and "fun." The game should have some kind of even playing field to start with.

Yeah seems like a painful list... But a draw you should be proud! Friendly or not that's a tough fight i would be interested in your ork list.

Im sure nothing could kill some of that stuff (2 knights and 2 storm talons a orks nightmare ) but still love to hear that list!

Idk if he spent the time and money and wants to use them should he not? I run knights a lot usually at least one because I spent a lot of time painting them and I want to use them.

In a similar situation where I was invited to a friendly game, I got a Titan of some sort pulled on me. I experienced quite a lot of nerdrage over it , of which I'm not proud (and also got flat-out tabled by it).

My opinion on the matter after some time to reflect is, at the very least, someone should let you know beforehand if they intend to bring anything with D weapons.

In my regular gaming club, we do stuff like add to the FOC restrictions (stuff like no D weapons, no LoWs, no named HQ, stuff like that) and those type of limits seem to curtail some of the imbalanced games that 40k lends itself to when played with blind lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We've also had a great deal of benefit using a neutral referee...
the kind of guy who can see a mismatch and be able to tell someone to modify their list, without hurting anyone's feeling.

Really, a referee adds so much to the game. They can make rule calls, look up rules while you're playing, check measurements, and weigh in when someone is breasking he rules (on purpose or otherwise), wihot it falling to an opponent to do in a situation where you're already doing rude things to eachoher.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
It sounds like the 2 of you have drastically different ideas about what a "friendly" game is. usually in a friendly game I will bring some oddball stuff I don't normally field or try silly tactics just for the heck of it.

Pretty much. I would hope that most players would know what is and is not a "fun" list.

As a Space Wolf player, if I want competitive I'll run tons of TWC and MSU. If I want fun, I'm running squads of 10x Grey Hunters, a Terminator Wolf Lord and the like. The list you gave didn't sound like it even had one fluffy/fun-for-everyone choice.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
The list you gave didn't sound like it even had one fluffy/fun-for-everyone choice.

I don't know about that... White Scars rolling with bikes, drop pods, storm talons and chapter masters on bikes sounds pretty fluffy to me. As does a Knight House helping Space Marines on a mission.
Now, dreadnought and devastator centurions in an otherwise White Scars list isn't too fluffy, but it could be a successor chapter.

I personally wouldn't bat an eye if somebody brought that list to a "friendly" game. "Friendly" implies the attitude/atmosphere, not the list, in my mind. After all, somebody must win and somebody must lose, as long as the winner didn't do it through strange interpretations/borderline abuse of rules, or whatever.

And heck, you even nearly won! Clearly your opponent wasn't using tournament tier tactics, otherwise you wouldn't have stood a chance.

Rihgu wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
The list you gave didn't sound like it even had one fluffy/fun-for-everyone choice.

I don't know about that... White Scars rolling with bikes, drop pods, storm talons and chapter masters on bikes sounds pretty fluffy to me. As does a Knight House helping Space Marines on a mission.
Now, dreadnought and devastator centurions in an otherwise White Scars list isn't too fluffy, but it could be a successor chapter.

I personally wouldn't bat an eye if somebody brought that list to a "friendly" game. "Friendly" implies the attitude/atmosphere, not the list, in my mind. After all, somebody must win and somebody must lose, as long as the winner didn't do it through strange interpretations/borderline abuse of rules, or whatever.

And heck, you even nearly won! Clearly your opponent wasn't using tournament tier tactics, otherwise you wouldn't have stood a chance.

It was a Maelstrom Mission so that kind of tips the balance...

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
The list you gave didn't sound like it even had one fluffy/fun-for-everyone choice.

I don't know about that... White Scars rolling with bikes, drop pods, storm talons and chapter masters on bikes sounds pretty fluffy to me. As does a Knight House helping Space Marines on a mission.
Now, dreadnought and devastator centurions in an otherwise White Scars list isn't too fluffy, but it could be a successor chapter.

I personally wouldn't bat an eye if somebody brought that list to a "friendly" game. "Friendly" implies the attitude/atmosphere, not the list, in my mind. After all, somebody must win and somebody must lose, as long as the winner didn't do it through strange interpretations/borderline abuse of rules, or whatever.

And heck, you even nearly won! Clearly your opponent wasn't using tournament tier tactics, otherwise you wouldn't have stood a chance.

It was a Maelstrom Mission so that kind of tips the balance...

By making winner and loser random.

What are ya'll complaining about? Those units are all so kewl, it definitely made for a "fun" game!

- Let's play a fun game!
- Ok, i'll exchange my 5-th and 6-th wave serpent for an imperial Knight.
- Yaaaay...

To avoid such situations i usually tell the general idea of my list to the opponent beforehand. For example:
- The core of my list will be a ton of footslogging boyz.
- OK *brings a bunch of marines, cultists, spawns and a single drake. And the game happens to be close and interesting with everyone enjoying it*

That nets the general idea. I might bring a truck or two. Stormboyz, maybe a wagon or stuff like that. But it's nothing the opponent can't overcome. I might try out a wierdboy or a sag mek, or whatever. I like inserting something new one at a time. It feels different, interesting and doesn't automatically invalidate the army if a make a list-building mistake with the unit i have no experience using.

And when the opponent just says:
- Sure, fun game it is!
- I'm gona bring lots of marines in rhinos.
- Good, good...*twirls mustache and laughs maniaccally than brings 3 imperial knights and a smashfether and the game happens to end on turn 4 with all marines dead and not a single thing lost on the other side*

...it's just not the right way if you ask me. Some people just try to make a tournament out of every single game they play.

It works only if people have multiple armies and multiple additional units from the same codex, and makes 0 sense for armies which have very few good units.

IMO the white scar list was for fun. No tigurius or divination librarian, no escape hatch to add extra range centurions, he runs a freaking dreadnought and no librarian or THcannon or any other useful unit from the sm codex. List has 0 ally. I don't know how the list could be made more friendly in an enviroment that accepts the use of Knights.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
It sounds like the 2 of you have drastically different ideas about what a "friendly" game is. usually in a friendly game I will bring some oddball stuff I don't normally field or try silly tactics just for the heck of it.

And that's the fundamental problem with the pre-game negotiation that's required now to play 40k. Different people have vastly different ideas about what constitutes "fair" and "fun." The game should have some kind of even playing field to start with.

I fail to see how needing to have a discussion on what you arn your opponent want from the game is in any way a hinderance. Are you saying that, prior to this being 'neccessary', you would just walk up to the table in silence, maybe exchange comments about the weather, and get on with the game with little/no communication.

koooaei wrote:- Let's play a fun game!
- Ok, i'll exchange my 5-th and 6-th wave serpent for an imperial Knight.
- Yaaaay...

To avoid such situations i usually tell the general idea of my list to the opponent beforehand. For example:
- The core of my list will be a ton of footslogging boyz.
- OK *brings a bunch of marines, cultists, spawns and a single drake. And the game happens to be close and interesting with everyone enjoying it*

That nets the general idea. I might bring a truck or two. Stormboyz, maybe a wagon or stuff like that. But it's nothing the opponent can't overcome. I might try out a wierdboy or a sag mek, or whatever. I like inserting something new one at a time. It feels different, interesting and doesn't automatically invalidate the army if a make a list-building mistake with the unit i have no experience using.

And when the opponent just says:
- Sure, fun game it is!
- I'm gona bring lots of marines in rhinos.
- Good, good...*twirls mustache and laughs maniaccally than brings 3 imperial knights and a smashfether and the game happens to end on turn 4 with all marines dead and not a single thing lost on the other side*

...it's just not the right way if you ask me. Some people just try to make a tournament out of every single game they play.

Have an exalt!

Makumba wrote:It works only if people have multiple armies and multiple additional units from the same codex, and makes 0 sense for armies which have very few good units.

IMO the white scar list was for fun. No tigurius or divination librarian, no escape hatch to add extra range centurions, he runs a freaking dreadnought and no librarian or THcannon or any other useful unit from the sm codex. List has 0 ally. I don't know how the list could be made more friendly in an enviroment that accepts the use of Knights.

If you think that a fun/friendly list in this context still involves playing the same copy-paste netlist and maximum optimisation, I fear you may have missed the point.

 zombiekila707 wrote:
Yeah seems like a painful list... But a draw you should be proud! Friendly or not that's a tough fight i would be interested in your ork list.

Im sure nothing could kill some of that stuff (2 knights and 2 storm talons a orks nightmare ) but still love to hear that list!

My list was:
3 MANZ in a truck
Warboss in mega armor

2x 20 Choppa boys w/nob w/ PK (1 mob in a naked BW)
1x 30 Choppa boys on foot / nob PK / attached pain boy

Dakkajet
3x defcoptas w/ rockits

7 tank bustas w/2 squigs in a truck

10 flash gits in a BW
KFF mech in wagon with gits

5 Knutson blasta kannons w/3 grots each

Coptas, jet, and 20 boys mob in reserve. I got the infiltraite warlord thing and moved up the MANZ, tank bustas, and 30 boy mob

He had initiative. Lost the tank bustas right away from a massive attack by the bikers, and the 2 knights. 1 MANZ took a wound. Drop pod alph strike meltas the back of the git BW

My first turn got into assault with the bikers and scissors a Sargent maybe took a couple of bikes too. Erased the alpha striking marines in assault. Nothing else damaged.

Turn 2
He started blasting the kannons. Lost some grots. Lost 2 MANZ to marine fire frm a bunker. Lost a good number of grots. Lost the entire 30 boy squad to fire and stomps from knights.

Bring on jet and do some damage to knights. Coptas do some damage to dreadnought. Gits take out one centurion.

Turn 3
Everything is too far for him to reach basically. Dreadnought and some marines finish off MANZ and warboss. Grots abandon guns. I got real lucky on bike assault on the gits in a wagon and take them down to 3 bikes and the chapter master.

Rest of the game I scurry around trying to not die and pickup tactical points. Ends in a draw.

Communication is key... in any game. You can have the same disappointment and discussions in a game of football, where it is 11 vs 11. Competitiveness, ambition ruin a game as soon as not everyone considers "friendly game" to be without any ambition and just for having a good time.