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Hi, this situation presented itself in the last game I played against a friend of mine. I think we ruled it correctly, but I want to make sure we got it right.

I was playing Wood Elves, and he was playing Bretonnia.

On the left flank I had a unit of 6 waywatchers placed to intercept some pegasi knights. We had a large model of a water spring there, which we agreed being Impassable Terrain.
Since the terrain's base was wider than 6 cm, I deployed my waywatchers as a 3x2 unit, placing them next the spring, (at 1'' of distance and slightly angling them towards the center of the battlefield, but keeping the pegasi within the front arc).
My reasoning for this positioning was the following:

1 - if the pegasi charge, they have to charge on the front.
2 - since the skirmisher unit shrinks when charged, there is no way the pegasi can physically reach the unit, as the impassable terrain gets in the way.
3 - therefore, if the pegasi charge the waywatchers, they have no way to complete the charge, and so it fails.

We talked a little about this and we quickly agreed that this was the case (and that it was silly, as the pegasi were close enough to complete a flank charge). My waywatchers then proceeded to destroy the knights in a couple of turns, while staying completely safe.

Were we correct?

You were perfectly correct
I would also never play against you

Why, thanks for implying I'm TFG, when in fact I actually suggested my friend charged on the flank, since he could fit them there.

Glad we ruled it correctly.

Personally, I don't have any problem with what you did.

Using terrain to your advantage is one of the marks of a good player.

In my mind flying units can go over certain impassable terrain depending on the terrain, but for all purposes with current rules, you are right.

 TanKoL wrote:
You were perfectly correct
I would also never play against you

Why? Because he knows how to use terrain to his advantage? Or because he knows how to position his troops?

 Brennonjw wrote:
In my mind flying units can go over certain impassable terrain depending on the terrain, but for all purposes with current rules, you are right.

they can cross over terrain or friendly/enemy units to complete a charge if they have the fly rule. what prohibited this charge was the fact that when they chrage into combat they have to be able to land. If there wasnt room for his bases to fit then they couldnt land to get into combat

Keep in mind that if he can get one guy into contact, and it's possible for you to close the door on the charging unit that is blocked, you're forced to close the door instead of him.

I find very few instances of where terrain blocks all charges, and with flyers, he should have just lined up another angle.

You can also position the skirmishers on the corner of a unit, so that one model is blocking it. When the unit gets charged,, they contract on the centre, causing an automatically failed charge.

Vetril wrote:
Hi, this situation presented itself in the last game I played against a friend of mine. I think we ruled it correctly, but I want to make sure we got it right.

I was playing Wood Elves, and he was playing Bretonnia.

On the left flank I had a unit of 6 waywatchers placed to intercept some pegasi knights. We had a large model of a water spring there, which we agreed being Impassable Terrain.
Since the terrain's base was wider than 6 cm, I deployed my waywatchers as a 3x2 unit, placing them next the spring, (at 1'' of distance and slightly angling them towards the center of the battlefield, but keeping the pegasi within the front arc).
My reasoning for this positioning was the following:

1 - if the pegasi charge, they have to charge on the front.
2 - since the skirmisher unit shrinks when charged, there is no way the pegasi can physically reach the unit, as the impassable terrain gets in the way.
3 - therefore, if the pegasi charge the waywatchers, they have no way to complete the charge, and so it fails.

We talked a little about this and we quickly agreed that this was the case (and that it was silly, as the pegasi were close enough to complete a flank charge). My waywatchers then proceeded to destroy the knights in a couple of turns, while staying completely safe.

Were we correct?

Yeah, you are correct, well played there!

You actually might want to check page 22 because if he can't close the door to you but is still able to make contact you now have to close the door so did not play it right

TinTip wrote:
You actually might want to check page 22 because if he can't close the door to you but is still able to make contact you now have to close the door so did not play it right

The entire situation pictured is caused by the contracting of skirmishers meaning that the charge can be declared, but when they shrink(immediately as the charge is declared), the charge becomes impossible to complete.

How is it now impossible? The unit will be a min of 1.5" away fr the terrain and thus the pegasus' knights should be able to touch the unit forcing them to close the door

TinTip wrote:
How is it now impossible? The unit will be a min of 1.5" away fr the terrain and thus the pegasus' knights should be able to touch the unit forcing them to close the door

About an inch, and when the charge is declared, their position towards the spring means that the shrink puts them in a position which does not give the pegasi enough room to fit. If the centre of the unit is behind the impassable, the charge is impossible. Especially if the unit is 1" away.

Most tourney's I've played at have ruled that you can still complete the charge as at the time of declaration. it was a valid target and the lack of rules makes it confusing as to what actually happens. You stay in the same facing you would've originally hit though, there is no way you can hit a different part of the unit.

I'm struggling to see why they could not complete the charge.
It is difficult without seeing the terrain and placement.
As long as 1 model can touch another the charge can be completed as it is maximized for space. It doesn't need to be only centered.

TTTTPPP
WWW
Does that make sense, I may be missing something in your situation because it is hard to see without a picture.
Now if the corner can't touch and still be 1" away then you are correct.
Not sue why he wouldn't just reform to fit for a charge next turn or land behind and charge again, or just leave the unit to hide and go do something else. but it's easy to speculate when you aren't there.

 Throt wrote:
I'm struggling to see why they could not complete the charge.
It is difficult without seeing the terrain and placement.
As long as 1 model can touch another the charge can be completed as it is maximized for space. It doesn't need to be only centered.

TTTTPPP
WWW
Does that make sense, I may be missing something in your situation because it is hard to see without a picture.
Now if the corner can't touch and still be 1" away then you are correct.
Not sue why he wouldn't just reform to fit for a charge next turn or land behind and charge again, or just leave the unit to hide and go do something else. but it's easy to speculate when you aren't there.

In the situation pictured, the centre of the way watchers is behind impassable with what I presume to be one model visible to the pegs due to angling.

The moment the charge is declared, the unit contracts around the central model, resulting in them all being behind the impassable, an inch away from it.

As such, the peg knights cannot fit in any way to successfully complete the charge, resulting in an automatic failed charge.

I do something similar every time I use shades. I march them an inch away from a unit, so that one model is blocking the unit at an obnoxious angle. The unit either doesn't move, or charges the shades. But when it charges the shades, they shrink round the central model, rendering the charge impossible to complete.

Ah, gotcha. Sneaky sneaky.
I would probably play it that since the charge was available and the purpose of grouping the models is for convenience of combat that one edge or the other would be grouped towards rather than the specific center.
Just my opinion and how I'd play it though.
Full credit though. That is definitely a tough match up to have scenery that is just the right size for that to happen.

Edit because I just thought of something...
Although technically since the pressed formation shrinks when the charge is declared and before the charge distance is rolled couldn't it be possibly argued that as the unit shrinks it is now placing the majority of the Pegasus in the flank and closing the door would swing the Pegasus around after the corner hits a back model.?