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 Ashiraya wrote:
You also get a 640 helmet from Ragnaros.

Not sure if it was worth it. It was a three-hour wipefest with grinding, respawning trash and so on.

Highmaul is feeling great so far though.

I think it is worth it if you're a mount collector (I am!).

I've been lvl. 100 for some time now and I haven't done the new MC yet, but I plan to before it gets taken away... as far as the trash is concerned, I thought I read that they were hotfixed to no longer respawn.

I also hope to get into Highmaul with my friends this weekend.

Whoever thought making Molten Core into a 40-man LFR thingie was a good idea needs to at least have a stern talking to. "Don't AoE the Firelords" is too complicated for random groups.

On the plus side, I got overkilled by The Butcher in Highmaul for 296 trillion damage yesterday, so apparently that's a thing.

 Ashiraya wrote:
You also get a 640 helmet from Ragnaros.

Not sure if it was worth it. It was a three-hour wipefest with grinding, respawning trash and so on.

Highmaul is feeling great so far though.

Highmaul is pretty but its also pretty boring... If you've got DPS thats aware enough not to stand in aoe effects on the ground then its really really really easy. Tank damage isn't overly high, but there is alot of damage that can go out to the raid if everyone isn't paying attention and right now healing is the weak spot.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Whoever thought making Molten Core into a 40-man LFR thingie was a good idea needs to at least have a stern talking to. "Don't AoE the Firelords" is too complicated for random groups.

On the plus side, I got overkilled by The Butcher in Highmaul for 296 trillion damage yesterday, so apparently that's a thing.

I think they made Molten Core into a 40 man LFR just to show all the people talking about the 'good old days' that the days weren't really that good.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
You also get a 640 helmet from Ragnaros.

Not sure if it was worth it. It was a three-hour wipefest with grinding, respawning trash and so on.

Highmaul is feeling great so far though.

I think it is worth it if you're a mount collector (I am!).

I've been lvl. 100 for some time now and I haven't done the new MC yet, but I plan to before it gets taken away... as far as the trash is concerned, I thought I read that they were hotfixed to no longer respawn.

I also hope to get into Highmaul with my friends this weekend.

Is that where that Corehound mount came from I keep seeing everyone on?

Sunken Temple was a fun zone, but it was *long*. Vanilla WoW had a trend in which the higher level a dungeon was, the more time it took to clear. Sunken Temple was the first instance where this became particularly noticeable. Stratholme dealt with it by allowing access to the "back door" and undead side. But both Blackrock Depths and Upper Blackrock were *very* long instances.

Blizzard noticed this, and TBC introduced shorter dungeons, which never have more than three or four bosses, with only a few small groups of trash mobs to clear in between (for the most part). This change has continued up to the present day.

It's notable that when UBRS was overhauled, they completely changed the instance. They didn't replace the mobs present in the instance. They changed the layout as well. Parts of it are familiar to old-timers. But huge chunks of it are no longer accessible. It's now a much faster instance to run than it was back in the day.

Oh no problem acknowledging the lenght of the older dungeons, you could easily spend 4+ hours (Maraudon) even in the lower level ones aan you had to have one seriously dedicated group to do a full run.
But having said that a lot of them were very well designed, with great boss fights, fun trash packs and cool events, remember the Pyramid stairs in Zul Farrak and the ensuing NPC fight? Great stuff.
I just think the option to upgrade some of the older ones would be a nice bonus to the game.

I ran iron docks and the level 91 dungeon a few times and to be frank, they were tediously unimaginative in most respects.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Whoever thought making Molten Core into a 40-man LFR thingie was a good idea needs to at least have a stern talking to. "Don't AoE the Firelords" is too complicated for random groups.

On the plus side, I got overkilled by The Butcher in Highmaul for 296 trillion damage yesterday, so apparently that's a thing.

I think they made Molten Core into a 40 man LFR just to show all the people talking about the 'good old days' that the days weren't really that good.

I miss atunements...

 Hulksmash wrote:

Is that where that Corehound mount came from I keep seeing everyone on?

Yes!

 Catyrpelius wrote:

I miss atunements...

Attunements were one if the dumbest things about vanilla WoW; they were often overly complicated affairs that didn't really prove anything other than you completed a long quest chain. Heroic dungeon keys in Outland were dumb too.

I understand the theory behind it, I just though it left a lot to be desired in practice.

Thats why I loved them! I loved the complicated/grindy/fiddly game that wow used to be.

I personally think we should bring back the days when only Paladins and Warlocks had mounts.

When WoW catered to the hardcore player they seemed to be better at retaining the player base. Now that they've substantially dumbed down the game the player base drops pretty quickly after an expansion. Hell on the server I'm on were already looseing people due to disintrest.

When does the Molten Core thing end? I'm only up to iLevel 611ish, but still want to get the achievement at least.

End of December, so you've got some time. I'm in the same boat. Only iLevel 607 right now. Going to need a little time before I can even run heroics....Because our regular dungeons take like 45 minutes in LFG...

 Hulksmash wrote:
End of December, so you've got some time. I'm in the same boat. Only iLevel 607 right now. Going to need a little time before I can even run heroics....Because our regular dungeons take like 45 minutes in LFG...

Did you get the ring that starts your legendary quest line?

If that's the one from Khadgar then yeah.

 Hulksmash wrote:
If that's the one from Khadgar then yeah.

Getting a first lvl ring from a jewel crafter is another good way to get a higher ilvl item

hey guys, what did you all use your free 90 boost on?
if I wanted a class that can handle multiple mobs with little downtime can you recommend one?

Affliction Warlock. Absolute easy mode.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
hey guys, what did you all use your free 90 boost on?
if I wanted a class that can handle multiple mobs with little downtime can you recommend one?

Paladin.

I haven't used my level boost yet.

WRT taking multiple mobs with little to no down time, my main is a prot warrior, and with gladiator stance I can basically farm nonstop with the Impending Victory talent. Ideally dealing with 2-3 enemies at a time.

 Ratius wrote:
Affliction Warlock. Absolute easy mode.

Not any more in my experience, and I started the expansion at iLvL 585. Everything takes ages to kill as affli because there just is no burst, and with the selfhealing nerfed having multiple mobs hitting you is bad news.

ive read that blood dk is pretty good at soloing multiple mobs.
is that still true at 90+

Blood DKs are and will always be good.

But then, I love the hell out of DKs and have 1 level 100, 1 level 96 and 3 level 90 DKs.

They are just so good in every way - free weapon enchants, fun gameplay yet simple enough for you to be able to focus on the raid mechanics as well, and awesome for RP.

 Catyrpelius wrote:
Thats why I loved them! I loved the complicated/grindy/fiddly game that wow used to be.

Grinding is not fun. It wasn't in vanilla and it isn't now. Most of the original attunements came down the RNG, which is a terrible way to decided whether or not a player could experience content they paid for.

I personally think we should bring back the days when only Paladins and Warlocks had mounts.

I think you might be remembering things a little different then they were... everyone had access to mounts, but warlocks and paladins had their epic quest chain to learn how to summon their class specific mounts. I admit, those quest chains were fun (especially the warlock one), but in the end you typically had to spend more gold to complete the quest chain then to outright buy an epic mount. You also needed people willing to help you, so if you didn't have that you were gak out of luck.

I would like to see a return to class-specific epic quest chains, like the priest Benediction quest.

When WoW catered to the hardcore player they seemed to be better at retaining the player base. Now that they've substantially dumbed down the game the player base drops pretty quickly after an expansion. Hell on the server I'm on were already looseing people due to disintrest.

Not quite, as the game hit its subscriber peak of 12 million in October 2010 at the end Wrath of the Lich King right before Cataclysm was released. WotLK was the start of the more accessible model of endgame and subscription skyrocketed through the course of the expansion with more people participating in the endgame than ever before. There is was nothing 'hardcore" about vanilla endgame: half the classes were useless (you want to be a paladin or priest? forget about everything else your class can do get ready to heal! You want to be a shaman? Good, stand there, buff everybody, and do nothing else), raids were boring trash-fests, and getting in them didn't take any real skill, just time sitting in front of the computer grinding away and everyone knows time invested =/= actual skill.

More people started playing as the game gradually did away with all the dumb gak that people like to claim was great (which obviously it wasn't, or we would still be doing it 10 years later). The numbers don't lie:



In the end, I had fun back in vanilla and there is no denying that it was a great game back then, but if you take off the rose-colored glasses it's pretty obvious that there were serious flaws with the model.

Not any more in my experience, and I started the expansion at iLvL 585. Everything takes ages to kill as affli because there just is no burst, and with the selfhealing nerfed having multiple mobs hitting you is bad news.

Ive had a different experience. Ive been levelling up starting with mostly cata gear as I never played mists and take on 5-6 mobs regularly as afflic. The voidwalkers taunts got a serious buff imo so groups of mobs shouldnt really make it to the lock and if one or two do youve still got survivability with drain, corr ticks, howl of T, portal jumping and sacrifice.
I did a test last night and took on 11 ogres simultaneously in Teledar(sp?).
Was a good fight but survived it fairly easily.
Granted afflic has no burst but it never did, dotting up multiple mobs and bleeding them over time as voidy holds aggro and you avoid them works great imo.

So this level 90 boost, can you buy the expansion, create a new toon, and THEN level it to 90? If so...I think Blizzard just got me back.

I've heard the numbers are far more reasonable when playing so that you don't see stupid gak like crits for 500m on trash mobs.

Yes FB you can.

The numbers did get significantly reduced, circa TBC I think. Im level 97 in mostly blues at this stage and Im about 150k hit points.
Crits dont go much above 3-4k for me and mob hit points at the moment are circa 50k with harder ones up about 200-250k (non instance obviously).

 Frankenberry wrote:
stupid gak like crits for 500m on trash mobs.

500m crits has not happened. The highest crit I have seen (without temporary things like the 1000% damage buff you get for the last phase of Ozumat) was back in 5.4 when I saw a Warlock in mostly heroic warforged gear stack all his cooldowns and Timeless Isle buffs, getting a 3 million Chaos Bolt on an Eternal Kilnmaster.

Garrosh on Heroic difficulty had to selfheal several times during the fight as otherwise his max health would have been too high for the game system.

Before the stat squish I had 670k hp in Frost and averaged 350k dps on a somewhat Patchwerk-ish fight (specifically Iron Juggernaut).

Right now, at 100, I have 270k-ish hp in Frost and I average around 20k dps with full raid buffs on a dummy.

As you can see, damage has been reduced a lot more than health. To make old content as soloable as before you take less and do more damage when fighting pre-MoP NPCs.

I got a 6 million Obliterate crit on heroic 25 Festergut this evening.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
stupid gak like crits for 500m on trash mobs.

500m crits has not happened. The highest crit I have seen (without temporary things like the 1000% damage buff you get for the last phase of Ozumat) was back in 5.4 when I saw a Warlock in mostly heroic warforged gear stack all his cooldowns and Timeless Isle buffs, getting a 3 million Chaos Bolt on an Eternal Kilnmaster.

Garrosh on Heroic difficulty had to selfheal several times during the fight as otherwise his max health would have been too high for the game system.

Before the stat squish I had 670k hp in Frost and averaged 350k dps on a somewhat Patchwerk-ish fight (specifically Iron Juggernaut).

Right now, at 100, I have 270k-ish hp in Frost and I average around 20k dps with full raid buffs on a dummy.

As you can see, damage has been reduced a lot more than health. To make old content as soloable as before you take less and do more damage when fighting pre-MoP NPCs.

I got a 6 million Obliterate crit on heroic 25 Festergut this evening.

Yeah, I was just exaggerating is all. The over the top crap that MoP introduced stat wise is one of the things that killed my addiction, but now that things appear to be better managed and less silly, I think I might come back.

Been considering a change of pace too, maybe a realm change, race and faction change for my Paladin (Won't be doing the holy power bovine, perhaps a male Blood Elf.) and use the 90 boost to raise up a different horde toon.

Any suggestions? Haven't played since before the Siege of Orgimmar update in MoP...can't imagine much has changed.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

I personally think we should bring back the days when only Paladins and Warlocks had mounts.

I think you might be remembering things a little different then they were... everyone had access to mounts, but warlocks and paladins had their epic quest chain to learn how to summon their class specific mounts. I admit, those quest chains were fun (especially the warlock one), but in the end you typically had to spend more gold to complete the quest chain then to outright buy an epic mount. You also needed people willing to help you, so if you didn't have that you were gak out of luck.

I would like to see a return to class-specific epic quest chains, like the priest Benediction quest.

This, so much this! The Green Fire questline for Warlocks is one of the best quest lines Blizzard has ever designed IMO. More of it to everyone (except to Mages, feth those guys! ).

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:
Thats why I loved them! I loved the complicated/grindy/fiddly game that wow used to be.

Grinding is not fun. It wasn't in vanilla and it isn't now. Most of the original attunements came down the RNG, which is a terrible way to decided whether or not a player could experience content they paid for.

I personally think we should bring back the days when only Paladins and Warlocks had mounts.

I think you might be remembering things a little different then they were... everyone had access to mounts, but warlocks and paladins had their epic quest chain to learn how to summon their class specific mounts. I admit, those quest chains were fun (especially the warlock one), but in the end you typically had to spend more gold to complete the quest chain then to outright buy an epic mount. You also needed people willing to help you, so if you didn't have that you were gak out of luck.

I would like to see a return to class-specific epic quest chains, like the priest Benediction quest.

When WoW catered to the hardcore player they seemed to be better at retaining the player base. Now that they've substantially dumbed down the game the player base drops pretty quickly after an expansion. Hell on the server I'm on were already looseing people due to disintrest.

Not quite, as the game hit its subscriber peak of 12 million in October 2010 at the end Wrath of the Lich King right before Cataclysm was released. WotLK was the start of the more accessible model of endgame and subscription skyrocketed through the course of the expansion with more people participating in the endgame than ever before. There is was nothing 'hardcore" about vanilla endgame: half the classes were useless (you want to be a paladin or priest? forget about everything else your class can do get ready to heal! You want to be a shaman? Good, stand there, buff everybody, and do nothing else), raids were boring trash-fests, and getting in them didn't take any real skill, just time sitting in front of the computer grinding away and everyone knows time invested =/= actual skill.

More people started playing as the game gradually did away with all the dumb gak that people like to claim was great (which obviously it wasn't, or we would still be doing it 10 years later). The numbers don't lie:

Spoiler:

In the end, I had fun back in vanilla and there is no denying that it was a great game back then, but if you take off the rose-colored glasses it's pretty obvious that there were serious flaws with the model.

How were attunements down to RNG? Most of the early ones required that you just complete a chain of quests that usually just took you into dungeon somewhere. There was the server unlocking event for Temple of Ahn'Qiraq, but I don't think thats what you were talking about. Its something I really wish they would bring back. It's something that I saw occur on several servers and it was really interesting to be a part of.

Way back at the begining of the game not every class had acess to mounts... They changed it with either the first or the second major patch, I can't remember exactly which.

There used to be quest lines for all the really major abilities, the Paladin Resurection quest line was interesting.

So how are you guys doing in Brawler's Guild and Proving Grounds?

My best is wave 49 Endless (DPS) and I am currently trying to get Battletron down.