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2014/11/19 08:29:24
Subject: 1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle (Completed)
1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle
This is a practice game for a tournament (actually, the BAO which has already past). SabrX was just getting back into the game, and so I felt it was necessary to "educate" him on how good Eldar was in competitive play. Thus, I took out my seldomly-used Eldar army to give him some practice against a top-tier tournament army. After all, if you want to do well in tournament play, you better make sure your army can handle mechdar.
Now I wouldn't under-estimate SabrX's Sisters of Battle. For a "not-so-competitive" army, his army is actually very good. That is because he is running a very strong build in the 7th Edition meta - MSU-mech - and he is actually running an Apocalypse formation which makes all of his multi-melta sisters Relentless as well as give them some other special rules (at the time of the game, we both did not know that his formation was Apoc only).
However, I am running mechdar, the bane of rhino-spam. I will shred his immolators with ease. This is going to be a tough battle....for him. In my opinion, his sisters, while very good, will be a heavy underdog in this matchup.
1850 Mechdar Eldar (My list)
Farseer - Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Spirit Stone of Anath'lan - Shrouding, Prescience, Summoning
5x Retributors - 1x Heavy Flamer, 1x Heavy Bolter, 2x Multi-meltas
Immolator w/TL-Multi-melta
5x Retributors - 1x Heavy Flamer, 1x Heavy Bolter, 2x Multi-meltas
Immolator w/TL-Multi-melta
5x Retributors - 1x Heavy Flamer, 1x Heavy Bolter, 2x Multi-meltas
Immolator w/TL-Multi-melta
5x Retributors - 1x Heavy Flamer, 1x Heavy Bolter, 2x Multi-meltas
Immolator w/TL-Multi-melta
5x Retributors - 1x Heavy Flamer, 1x Heavy Bolter, 2x Multi-meltas
Immolator w/TL-Multi-melta
5x Retributors - 1x Heavy Flamer, 1x Heavy Bolter, 2x Multi-meltas
Immolator w/TL-Multi-melta
Note: His formation is actually for Apocalypse only. It gives all the units in it the Relentless special rule (relentless multi-meltas, yippee!) as well as a some other special rules. At the time of the game, we didn't know that it was Apoc only, but I was ok with him running it anyways. In short, it's all good.
1. Hold Your Objective #1.
2. Hold Your Objective #2.
3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #1.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #2.
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
6. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Bonuses - First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
This is probably going to be a rude awakening for the Sisters. My prediction? My Eldar is going to smash them. I'm going to leave them without a running tank by the end of the game. And I will grab all the objectives while doing so.
Why are Eldar going to win?
1. Serpent shields that ignore cover and are twin-linked will do nasty things to AV11 armor.
2. Eldar mobility is out of this world.
3. I've got 12 ObSec units to his 6. My ObSec units are much more durable.
4. Shrouding + Holo-fields + jink = 2+ cover for my wave serpents if they jink, 4+ cover if they don't.
5. I can add even more units through Summoning.
6. Ever try to kill a wraithknight with 2+ cover?
7. We're playing Big Guns. I've got 2 Heavy Support units. He's got 14!
8. Experience. I've got a large experience edge over my opponent. He sat out for most of 6th edition and is just starting to come back for 7th.
I'm the big bad wolf here and I expect to demolish my opponent. However, I will not think for a second that my opponent won't put up a fight. Although my army matches up well against his, I cannot under-estimate his army, lest I find myself in a hole and fighting from behind. His army is quite dangerous. So why does my opponent have a chance (however small)?
Why Sisters are going to win?
1. His formation. It is really good. It makes his sisters Relentless and I believe it gives them Rending. So Rending, Relentless Heavy Bolters and Heavy Flamers as well as Relentless Multi-meltas makes his Retributors super dangerous. Then he's also got this special attack that can be quite worrisome as well.
2. Loads of AP1 weapons. My wraithknights have got a lot to fear here. He's got enough meltas and exorcist S8 AP1 shots to potentially take out both of my wraithknights in 1 turn without cover!!! And even with my 2+/3+ cover saves, it just takes 1 melta shot to get through to potentially ruin my wave serpent's day.
3. Sneaky Dominions. Dominions can outflank/scout move. They've also got the ability to ignore cover with their Faith, so if I'm not careful, that may be a dead farseer/Warlord very easily. At the very least, he has a great chance to take out a serpent when they come in (if they outflank) or from their scout move.
4. MSU to the max. He's got 2x the number of transports as I do and a lot more bodies than me. What he lacks in armor resiliency, he makes up for in increased number of units. I think I'll be fine if I can take out 3 transports a turn. However, if I only take out 1 or 2 transports a turn, then I may have some problems.
5. Veteran player. While SabrX hasn't played in a while, he is a veteran Sisters player who has been playing Sisters for a while now. So while he might not be as familiar with some of the 7E changes, he should be solid when it comes down to Sisters tactics. Also, SabrX used to run mechdar also. Thus, he has some experience with Eldar, both playing as and against.
1. Hold Your Objective #1.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #2.
Eldar:
2. Hold Your Objective #2.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #2.
Sisters advance.
1 unit of sisters disembark (or maybe they started off disembarked) and move up the ruins. They are holding Objective #1.
Instead of shooting, the immolators move flat-out, with the front one popping smoke.
Shooting by exorcists does jack and squat.
Eldar 1
Spoiler:
Wave serpents move. I disembark 1 unit of dire avengers.
The far-left serpent goes to grab my opponent's Objective #2.
My farseer casts Shrouding, taking 1W from Perils.
I am not able to kill his immo, shaking it and taking off 2HP's only.
I do, however, manage to get First Blood by killing a retributor immo.
I also shake and take off 2HP's from another immo.
Finally, I move one of my serpents flat-out onto my Objective #2. Since my serpents are Objective Secured, I take it from his exorcist.
Maelstrom VP's - Eldar: 2, Sisters: 1
My farseer then assaults the lead immo, immobilizing it and taking off 2HP's as well.
An ok turn for me. I was actually expecting to take out 3 transports this turn. Instead, I only take out 1 and manage to take off a couple of hull points from 3 other.
Sisters 2
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Sisters:
1. Hold Your Objective #1.
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Eldar:
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
6. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Dominions come in on my side of the table. They then disembark.
Oh sh*t! I forgot about their cover-ignoring Faith with 4 meltaguns and left my farseer within their threat range!
Sisters movement.
2 units of ObSec battle sisters disembark and prepare to deal with my serpent.
Retributors disembark on the other flank.
1 serpent goes down. The explosion takes out 2 sisters (from 2 different squads) and 1 dire avenger.
The girls then bolter the rest of my avengers to death.
On the other flank, retributors down another serpent and kill off 4 avengers. Ouch!
He also take off a couple of Hull Points (HP's) from 2 of my other serpents.
Wow....that was actually a very good turn of shooting for the sisters, taking out 2 wave serpents and almost 2 of my troops as well. It would have been perfect for SabrX, had his dominions not failed their Faith test to ignore cover against my Warlord farseer. Otherwise, Sisters are back into the game.
Eldar 2
Spoiler:
1 wraithknight (WK) comes in on the left flank. He goes after an exorcist.
The other WK goes after the retributors in the middle.
Serpents move on top of the impassable terrain (1 empty, 1 with troops in it).
Unfortunately for me, the serpent with the troops in it immobilizes itself.
My Warlord takes 1 Wound from Perils while casting his psychic power.
WK shoots down the exorcist.
I kill a few sisters. 1 unit breaks and falls back.
I kill 3 sisters here as well.
Farseer then assault the dominions, killing 1.
Other than the exorcist, I only kill 1 unit for 1-VP. My opponents has his Objective #1 as well as kills a unit, giving him 2-VP's.
Maelstrom VP's - Eldar: 3, Sisters: 3
Sisters 3
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Sisters:
1. Hold Your Objective #1.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #2.
Eldar:
2. Hold Your Objective #2.
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
So here is where we stand.
Sisters have lost 2 vehicles. They've got 2-3 damaged, but overall, they've still got 10 vehicles alive.
Mechdar has lost 2 serpents, with a 3rd one immobilized (I'll count that as 1/2). So I've only got 3-1/2 vehicles alive.
However, the main disparity is this. With the loss of those 2 vehicles, sisters have lost minimal firepower. Eldar, on the other hand, have lost about 1/3 of their AT firepower. That's where it's going to hit me the hardest. As Sisters lose vehicles, their offense does not go down all that much, but as Eldar lose vehicles, their offensive output goes down dramatically.
Looks like it's going to be a much tougher fight than I had anticipated.
Retributors go after my WK.
Sisters movement. The unit falling back regroups because they are now within range of Uriah (granting the Fearless).
It takes a lot of firepower (practically his entire army shooting at it), but Sisters finally manage to bring down my WK (in 4+ ruins).
They take down another serpent as well.
Either my farseer breaks his dominions, or he hit-&-runs out of combat (with the Mantle of the Laughing God).
Eldar 3
Spoiler:
Dire avengers go after the Sisters.
Farseer moves towards the exorcist.
My ObSec serpent goes flat-out to take Objective #2 from the exorcist.
WK advances.
Avengers shoot down 1 out of 2 sisters. I should have wiped them out.
Shooting by dires and wave serpents wipe out 4 and 2 sisters.
Lone dire shoots down 1 sister.
WK then shoots at the exorcist but only manage to immobilize it.
My Warlord then makes the 8-9" charge....and fails to do anything.
Not a great turn for Eldar, but somehow, I do manage to kill a unit (not sure which) as well as grab my Objective #2 for 2-VP's. Sisters only manage to grab 1-VP (his Objective #1) because I am contesting his other objective (my Objective #2) with an ObSec unit.
Maelstrom VP's - Eldar: 5, Sisters: 4
Sisters 4
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Sisters:
2. Hold Your Objective #2.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #2.
Eldar:
3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #1.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #2.
Sisters movement. With Relentless multi-meltas, they turn towards my other WK, opting to ignore my lone dire avenger.
Here, sisters go after my serpent and Warlord.
Immolator tries to block off my objective and prepares to flame some dires to death.
Despite 2+ Shrouded cover saves (from my Warlord), Sisters still take down my wave serpent. 2 dires die in the explosion.
4 serpents down. 1 immobilized. 1 more serpent to go.
Exorcists and multi-meltas manage only to take off 1W from my WK.
Eldar 4
Spoiler:
This turn, I go after his ObSec sisters on his objective. My WK is actually on the same floor as his sisters.
Dires go after some sisters. I don't believe the immo shot at them last turn (don't remember why).
Eldar movement.
Wave serpent stuns/takes off 2HP's from an immolator....
....as well as shake/take off 2HP's from Uriah's ride.
Another subpar turn of shooting as my dires are only able to shoot down 1 out of 2 sisters.
So these dires are forced to finish the job instead of shooting at the closer sisters.
Dires run to make it into range of my opponent's Objective #2 and take it due to being ObSec.
My Warlod tubo-boosts into the ruins.
The WK shoots and then assaults the sisters, killing 3. However, I can't kill them off or send them fleeing to grab my opponent's Objective #1.
I get 1 Maelstrom VP this turn (opponent's Objective #2). My opponent doesn't get any.
Maelstrom VP's - Eldar: 6, Sisters: 4
Sisters 5
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Sisters:
2. Hold Your Objective #2.
3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #1.
Eldar:
3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #1.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective #2.
Overview of the top of Turn 5.
I've only got 2 serpents left, and I think both are immobilized. SabrX has still got a few transports alive, putting me in somewhat of a pickle. Other than my Warlord, I have no mobility left whereas my opponent still has a lot of mobility.
Immo goes to block off (and to take) my Objective #1.
Sisters go to refocus on my dires.
They go-to-ground and 1guys survives (despite a heavy flamer and lots of bolters)!
Sisters take care of the dires on my Objective #2.
Finally, my WK takes out his unit of battle sisters in assault.
Eldar 5
Spoiler:
WK and my Warlord venture out of the protection of the ruins.
Farseer summons for the very first time in this game. Unfortunately, the unit of plaguebearers mishap and my opponent places them where they will not be heard of again for the rest of this game.
Avengers move towards my objective.
They then shoot the immo in the arse and wreck it!
WK shoots down the exorcist.
Serpents kill an ObSec troop transport.
Finally, my Warlord assaults the immo and do 1HP of damage to it.
I fail to achieve either of my objectives this turn. SabrX gets my Objective #2.
Maelstrom VP's - Eldar: 6, Sisters: 5
The game would go on.....
Sisters 6
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Sisters:
1. Hold Your Objective #1.
2. Hold Your Objective #2.
Eldar:
1. Hold Your Objective #1.
6. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Overview of the top of Turn 6.
As it currently stands, SabrX has got 2 Big Gun objectives, with an ObSec unit heading towards a 3rd one. I don't have any, but I can pretty easily get to 3 of them.
Sisters move and disembark onto their Objective #1.
Unit of sisters regroup.
Sisters movement. They grab his Objective #2.
Mayday! Mayday! Dead Warlord down!
That is the extent of their shooting, but taking down my Warlord was HUGE! It takes out my daemon summoning as well as Shrouding for my WK. More importantly, he struck a massive blow to my mobility. The only mobile unit I have left is my WK.
Eldar 6
Spoiler:
Dires go to claim my Objective #1.
I shoot down his Warlord's ride with immobilized serpents.
Ironically, the exploding objective takes out 2 of my dires.
WK assaults the retributor immo and wrecks it.
Currently, my opponents has both of his Objectives #1 and #2, fulfilling both of his Maelstrom requirements.
Fortunately for me, I've got both of my Maelstrom objectives as well, killing a couple of units and holding my Objective #1 with my dires.
Maelstrom VP's - Eldar: 8, Sisters: 7
On the Primary, we both have 2 objectives (he has his #1 and #2, I have my #1 and #2).
We both have Linebreaker. I have First Blood. He has my Warlord.
I will take the game if it ends now. We roll....and SabrX will get another chance to try to pull off a miracle.
Sisters 7
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Sisters:
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
6. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Eldar:
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
6. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
SabrX has no choice. Game will end this turn. He moves his Sisters over to grab the objective over my WK. He just needs 1 sister to survive my assault next turn to take the objective.
Uriah gets into an empty immolator and they try to get to my objective to contest.
Retributors grab an objective.
He kills both of my serpents to achieve both of his Maelstrom objectives.
Eldar 6
Spoiler:
My WK guns down 1 sister.
Avengers go and grab my Objective #1. Since they are ObSec, they wrestle it from the contesting immolator (with his Warlord in it).
WK then assaults....
....and wipes them out, thus giving me 1 Maelstrom VP.
We tie on the Secondary, the modified Maelstrom objectives.
I've got 2 of the Primary objectives.
SabrX has got 2 as well.
HOWEVER, he's killed 1 of my heavy supports (a wraithknight) for 1 bonus VP. I've killed about 9-10 of his heavies (2 exorcists, retributors and immolators) to actually take a dominating lead on the Primary.
I get First Blood but no Linebreaker (moved my WK out of LB to grab the objective). My opponent gets my Warlord as well as Linebreaker.
Don't be fooled by the final score. The game was actually much closer than the final score suggested. What I thought would have been an easy victory for Eldar turned out to be a tough, tough battle where Sisters' AV11 transports actually out-lasted mechdar wave serpents! The Apoc formation that SabrX used was really, really good. Relentless multi-meltas, when spammed, is really deadly to enemy mech. He actually caught me off-guard with how much damage he was able to accomplish with his shooting!
I can attribute my win to 3 key points:
1. SabrX failing to get off Ignore Cover on his dominions. Had he not failed that attempt, he had a good chance to kill my Warlord with 4 melta shots. Had he taken out my Warlord early, I would not have been able to cast Shrouding to protect both my serpents as well as my surviving wraithknight. This could have been a game-changer had his Faith power gone off.
2. Too many Heavy Supports for Sisters. This was just a bad matchup for my opponent as he started the game with a major handicap already. Now against a lesser, more inexperienced player with a less optimized list, yeah, you can probably get away with it. But not against a player of my caliber and experience and not against an army as highly-optimized as mine.
3. My experience. Even when I was down (and IMO, I was down for most of the game), I knew exactly what I had to do and I did it, always playing the mission and focusing on what I needed to focus on, flanking him on his weak side, and luring his units away from my objective (and dire avengers) by moving away from it. The key was not to get boxed in by his units, spread out, kill off his mobility to make it hard for him to get to the objectives and, of course, kill off his Heavy Supports to accumulate Big Gun points.
After our practice games, SabrX decided to change up his list for the BAO. Instead of going with the AV11 immolators, he opted to bring AV13 repressors and an Imperial Knight instead! I actually felt that he had a good chance to take Best Sisters Player there. Unfortunately for him, he had to go up against my flyer army in a Victory Points mission. So it was a VP mission between a MSU army with no anti-air against a flyer army with 6 flyers. Needless to say, I probably dashed his hopes for Best Sisters player. Oh well, there's always the LVO next year.
This message was edited 17 times. Last update was at 2014/11/26 18:02:19
yes powerful Eldar but they have alot of Rhino hulls to deploy against you.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2014/11/19 16:38:12
Subject: 1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle
Or is this just an old game that you're getting around to writing now.
It's really too bad PS is apoc only.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/19 16:40:04
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2014/11/19 16:59:30
Subject: 1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle
Or is this just an old game that you're getting around to writing now.
It's really too bad PS is apoc only.
Yeah, it's an older game. It's actually a double-header to the game that you just linked. We played both on the same day.
Mallich wrote: A "Big Guns Never Tire" game against an army with 14* Heavy Support units? When the other side only has 2?
*Prepares popcorn*
*Or 8, if someone argues that the immolators aren't the Retributors' dedicated transports.
Yeah, it's a major handicap for my opponent. I offered to change missions when we rolled for it, but he declined. Since we would have to go through a Big Guns (and a Purge the Alien) game anyways at the tournament, might as well get the practice for it now.
jy2 wrote: Yeah, it's an older game. It's actually a double-header to the game that you just linked. We played both on the same day.
Aha! Thanks.
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2014/11/19 17:54:56
Subject: 1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle
That's a nice looking Sisters list! How did he do at the BAO? Btw, you got lucky with your psychic powers! Shrouding on the first roll...ouch. I think this will be a win for the Eldar, though the Sisters will kill....3 Wave Serpents and a WK
13000
12000
:daemon 14000
:darkeldar 5000
2014/11/19 19:42:37
Subject: 1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle
He was aiming for Best Sisters player at the BAO. Unfortunately for him, he fell short.
Yeah, I hit the jackpot with my psychic powers. Shrouding was exactly the power that I wanted and I got it. Ironically, I have a higher tendency to get Shrouding than I do Invisibility on the Telepathy table.
I will say one thing though. Shrouding does have a downside, and that is it tends to discourage your units from spreading out. For mechdar, spreading out usually is a good thing. Thus, in a ways, Shrouding will tend to take away some of your tactical flexibility as you opt to castle up probably more often than you should.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2014/11/20 05:06:09
Subject: Re:1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle
Erg. As much as I really want the Sisters to win this one, Mechdar is a really hard army for them to beat. SabrX's best bet, I think, is to hopefully win the first turn and swamp the board with Immos. If he can cross the board without taking too many losses, then he'll hopefully be able to bring enough meltas to bear to start hurting Jy2's units.
Oh man, 6 wave serpents taking out some sisters?....
Good report!, Sisters army looks nicely painted none the less.
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
,
2014/11/30 20:20:11
Subject: 1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle (Completed)
Ironically, SabrX was the one to take out all of my transports by the end of the game. Still, his formation played a huge part in him doing so and his formation won't be legal in normal 40K, so I wouldn't expect the same performance from another Sister's army.
Nice rep, and quite an intense matchup. I reckon the maelstrom score was more relevant as to how the game went, but as you said he played with a handicap and you have the edge experience wise.
Still.... An eldar farseer summoning demons.... That's just wrong....
2014/12/01 20:25:35
Subject: Re:1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle (Completed)
Wondering if you forgot about Ghost helm, or if you'd simply blown the rest of your warp charges on powers that didn't go off. It's a rare event that my farseers take wounds from perils, as I almost always reserve one charge for that.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2014/12/01 23:10:20
Subject: Re:1850 Competitive - Jy2's Mechdar vs SabrX's Immo-spam Sisters of Battle (Completed)
SevenSins wrote: Nice rep, and quite an intense matchup. I reckon the maelstrom score was more relevant as to how the game went, but as you said he played with a handicap and you have the edge experience wise.
Still.... An eldar farseer summoning demons.... That's just wrong....
I also had the edge with ObSec units as most of his units, the retributors and their immos, were non-ObSec. Thus, I was able to grab the Maelstrom objectives over his units.
As for Summoning, that is the new fluff. Just gonna roll with it.
Dash2021 wrote: Wondering if you forgot about Ghost helm, or if you'd simply blown the rest of your warp charges on powers that didn't go off. It's a rare event that my farseers take wounds from perils, as I almost always reserve one charge for that.
I rarely play my Eldar nowadays so it is quite conceivable that I forgot to save dice for Perils (I've done it before). But usually, after taking a wound, I learn my lesson, at least for that game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 23:11:32
Wow, it's been a long time since we had this match. I love the Purge Squadron formation and wish it was legal. The combined shooting special rule isn't very useful, but have relentless Multi-melta are!
Thanks for the share! Once I'm not drowning in code, perhaps I can stop being on hiatus and finish posting my long overdue battle reports. Perhaps even play a few games with you.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
13000
12000
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
