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 Ahtman wrote:
You can list anecdotal evidence all you want, but it doesn't really effect trends nor does it make research showing it is a problem disappear.

So only one side of the argument are permitted to use anecdotes?


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 Melissia wrote:
But Ahtman, the fact that research shows certain people here is wrong and deeply ignorant offends them, and we can't have thaaa~aat, they're a white guys!

Careful now, thats straying into gender and racial stereotyping!

 Kilkrazy wrote:

You implied it. However I am glad to see you resile from that position and admit that the white male is the dominant culture in the western world.

Where did I say that I ever had the position in question? Direct quotation please. You already got burned once using false interpretations.

Looking back at the list, this is all far less effective than simply pointing guys to http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ (NSFW)

Funnily enough, item 25:

Because it was created by a straight white man, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.

made me take the list LESS seriously. The 'straight white' bit sells it, because why not add race and sexual preference?

Looking at that list again from the video reminds me of the Wiki-wars as groups tried to re-write / define various topics.
This "check your privilege" fad is another media to hijack and stir up some controversy.
I like how the discussions have pointed out that your "privilege" mileage may vary depending on immediate surrounding audience.
The list seems more a means to throw a few statements out there and see what sticks.

Rather than pointing out male privilege / differences they could have had the opportunity to point out what is universally unacceptable for anyone to be targeted with.
I found many of the points a guy would be just as easily a target as a woman: so it has all the more support to abolish, it is a common experience.

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
Looking back at the list, this is all far less effective than simply pointing guys to http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ (NSFW)

Funnily enough, item 25:

Because it was created by a straight white man, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.

made me take the list LESS seriously. The 'straight white' bit sells it, because why not add race and sexual preference?

To be divisive... I mean inclusive. One love y'all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:


Rather than pointing out male privilege / differences they could have had the opportunity to point out what is universally unacceptable for anyone to be targeted with.

I think the truth is that plenty of it is universally unacceptable but the eventual conclusion of unrestricted communication. Haters gon hate is not justification, merely an acknowledgement of an eventuality when humans intermingle with pure anonymity.

 Talizvar wrote:

I found many of the points a guy would be just as easily a target as a woman: so it has all the more support to abolish, it is a common experience.

But other than censorship and restriction on access, what else hasn't been tried?

From my anecdotal experience, if someone is being annoying, abrasive, hostile, rude, loud, we kick that person from the team speak channel and continue playing the game. But generally, I would say I have a pretty high tolerance when it comes to language, but I would say offensive language (subjective) is annoying, when it's directed at someone it can generally be seen as harassment, especially if the other player complains. So kick that person from team speak and if they keep acting out, kick them from the server. That seems to work as a stop gap solution, forums seem to do that same thing.


You know when you have friends who have a kid and then they become really abrassive and whiny and develop a victim complex and no one else understands how hard it is to be a parent, that's what a lot of the commentary on gender comes off as with the whole entitlement and privelege stuff. I personally think a narrative is a more effective way to share one's worldview and subjective experience and hope that that leads to better understanding and treatment of "the other" .

Why aren't people paid for house work? Well they are in a way. You would be indirectly paid by the member who brings home a wage, but that puts a odd work boss idea in the relationship. Hmm.

^Thats a problem.

But Yeah I do not hate marxists. Infact I find communists interesting but in no way sensible. As they ignore alot of interesting things.

The problem is people shouldn't treat marriage in general as a business agreement. It should just be a marriage.

(This in terms of that idea you gave)

I do not agree with marxists. Even though are ideas do align on several parts, its just I do not believe in cultural marxism as working. Me and Karl Marx are complete oppposites in terms of belief in god and life. I do not like the current idea by these 'feminists' they aren't real feminists they attack and are rabid people. Yet most of them are men. Not women. A few are women, but they are special snowflakes and often do more harm than good.

No one is disagreeing with them when they say we need better games. But we don't need more female characters, we need better characters in general, including female. The other problem is harassment and no one disagrees on that front.

There will be harassment, but I don't think it is rampant as people make it out to be.

It maybe happening but there is not hundreds of millions of people that are being affected.We will always have people being hurt and damaged by idiots. We will get threats. But that is the problem with being a celebrity. If you put yourself out there and expect no one to harass you, then you are a fool.

Everytime someone makes an account they risk being revealed to the public and being attacked personally.

It is an issue in terms of it happening, but it is not because it is rampant.

No one will argue that is a problem.

But it is happening on both sides of this GG situation. I don't think one side is suffering more than the other. Both are having harassment thrown at them.

In gaming everyone gets harassed by anons.

But this is a reaction to the twitter situation. where just about anyone can make an account on it,

You know. No we don't need better female characters. We need more. The few we have are surprisingly good. It is just that no matter how good they are, they can't hold up when we have so few of them.

Everyone can agree that we need better characters in general regardless of their gender. Both male and female characters in most games are terribly bland and poorly written.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Everyone can agree that we need better characters in general regardless of their gender. Both male and female characters in most games are terribly bland and poorly written.

This. I don't care what the gender is, just give me a well written engaging storyline and protagonist.

Case in point. Clementine of TWD is probably my favourite video game protagonist to date, or at least the first that comes to mind.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Everyone can agree that we need better characters in general regardless of their gender. Both male and female characters in most games are terribly bland and poorly written.

You know no. I don't think I will agree. I think that pulling that up is more a way to avoid talking about the problem. It's not that we don't have good enough characters (how do you even define a good character? Well you can't because what is good will be different from person to person and game to game.) I think the problem is we have fewer female characters then we have batman. (going by the last top 100) I think of it as a quantity problem.

If out of a hundred games, you have ten female characters and half of them are great, but you have ninety male characters and one in ten of them are great, you'll still have more great male characters than female characters, simply due to sheer numbers problems.

Amusingly enough, that's not a bad summary of the current situation, either.

 Melissia wrote:
If out of a hundred games, you have ten female characters and half of them are great, but you have ninety male characters and one in ten of them are great, you'll still have more great male characters than female characters, simply due to sheer numbers problems.

Amusingly enough, that's not a bad summary of the current situation, either.

Well there should be better characters in general.

Female characters will slowly start to come into the game design world.

A lot of people have been making a lot of female characters in games. They are starting to equalize.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
They seem to easily be able to do it with a whole LOT of men though.

There's nothing "easy" about it. You think organising the licenses to the names and likeness rites to hundreds of players across multiple professional codes is easy? No double that if you want to include women's leagues.

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

Is this the Payne residence?

Uhh! Chills. To this day.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
How does one cash in on this so called straight white male privilege?

I could sure as hell use every advantage I can get right now.

I was sure glad for my white male privilege when I lost my job in June. Man it was great to be so privileged while I got rejected time and time again for new jobs. So God-damned privileged. Went home every day thinking "Well, I'm Tumblr's natural enemy - a white cis het male - but so what 'cause everything will be ok! I don't need to work for anything, because I've got a great big heaping of privilege!".

Feth. That.

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:How does one cash in on this so called straight white male privilege?

I could sure as hell use every advantage I can get right now.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I was sure glad for my white male privilege when I lost my job in June. Man it was great to be so privileged while I got rejected time and time again for new jobs. So God-damned privileged. Went home every day thinking "Well, I'm Tumblr's natural enemy - a white cis het male - but so what 'cause everything will be ok! I don't need to work for anything, because I've got a great big heaping of privilege!".

Feth. That.

Are we doing this again?

White male 'privilege' in this particular context/scenario, is not about having something that others do not. So all the comments about, 'being a white male never helped me get ahead in life', or 'Being a white male doesn't stop you starving on the streets!' are showing a fundamental disconnect and absolute failure to grasp what is actually being discussed.

The white male 'privilege' is actually about not having something that someone else does. In other words, not being lucky [/sarcasm] enough to have the same sexual harassment, denigration, and assumptions made about you as some others do.

Nobody is asking you to apologise. Nobody is telling you that you have something you don't. Nobody is demanding you be ashamed for being a male. All they are trying to do is make you aware of how some other people how to suffer in ways that you do not. Because as the first point says, you do have the luxury to 'remain completely oblivious, or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming spaces'.

As for the next thing...

Sigvatr wrote:Everyone can agree that we need better characters in general regardless of their gender. Both male and female characters in most games are terribly bland and poorly written.

Asherian Command wrote:
No one is disagreeing with them when they say we need better games. But we don't need more female characters, we need better characters in general, including female. The other problem is harassment and no one disagrees on that front.

No. If someone says, 'Hey, we should make sure that disabled people get equal treatment!', turning around replying, 'It's not about disabled people getting equal treatment, it's about everyone everywhere ever getting equal treatment!' is a very nice and convenient way of deflecting the issue. You get to hide behind a grand ideal, and belittle the other person for only looking at the small picture.

Unfortunately, what happens is that hiding behind, 'Justice for all', or in this case, 'Better video game characters for all' means that absolutely diddly squat actually happens. Because setting an insanely high goal is a good way of ensuring that nobody even tries to hit it. It's the difference between a country pledging to cut their coal power supply by twenty percent, or completely switching to green power. If you target the first, you might actually get somewhere, and take a step towards that eventual larger goal. If you just start off with the huge goal, nobody even bothers. And then nothing improves.

Big steps are made up of little steps. You want awesome characters in every game. Alright. Focus on getting more female characters in decent roles. Maybe then focus on trying to give all them slightly better back stories. Then focus on getting in a few FPS's that actually have storyline. One step at a time. Because if you just say, 'Screw putting more women in video games, you think too small! WE SHOULD MAKE EVERY GAME EVERYWHERE AMAZING' nothing will change.

A more cynical person might even be tempted to suggest that would be a deliberate motive for making such a patently absurd deflection in the first place.

Privilege shouldn't be such a radical concept. It's basically understanding that different people have had different life experiences then you.

 Ketara wrote:
Are we doing this again?

White male 'privilege' in this particular context/scenario, is not about having something that others do not. So all the comments about, 'being a white male never helped me get ahead in life', or 'Being a white male doesn't stop you starving on the streets!' are showing a fundamental disconnect and absolute failure to grasp what is actually being discussed.

The white male 'privilege' is actually about not having something that someone else does. In other words, not being lucky [/sarcasm] enough to have the same sexual harassment, denigration, and assumptions made about you as some others do.

Nobody is asking you to apologise. Nobody is telling you that you have something you don't. Nobody is demanding you be ashamed for being a male. All they are trying to do is make you aware of how some other people how to suffer in ways that you do not. Because as the first point says, you do have the luxury to 'remain completely oblivious, or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming spaces'.

Bull gak from start to finish. People suffer in many ways. No ways are more worthy than others. This is just another way to guilt white people and I'm fething sick of it. You can't just be. You can't just exist. You can't have problems and struggles unique to you, struggles that you have from birth that you cannot escape because some group of feth wits has decided that your colour or gender determines your standing in society. You've got to be put into a box of "privilege" that is utterly detached from real life, and fails to take into account specific circumstances because it's so damned broad.

White people differ across the whole world. Black people differ across the whole world. Women differ across the whole world. To try and say that certain groups have privilege based upon these enormously broad concepts (I am not the same as a white guy from Estonia, any more than that white guy from Estonia is different to another white guy in Canada) is complete lunacy.

And this:

"All they are trying to do is make you aware of how some other people how to suffer in ways that you do not."

This is the worst part of it. Some people suffer in different ways to me? Yeah, and I suffer in different ways to other people. Why are my sufferings (whatever they may be), somehow deemed "less than" because I'm white. Why are any sufferings suffered by white people - as if that distinction even MEANS anything given just how many different types of white people there are across the world; no race is a fething hive mind collective - any more or less worthy/different/important than anyone else's?

These pointless titles seek only to divide us further into utterly meaningless categories that solve no problems.

And I'm sick of it.

nomotog wrote:
Privilege shouldn't be such a radical concept. It's basically understanding that different people have had different life experiences then you.

And yet it is.

 Melissia wrote:

nomotog wrote:
Privilege shouldn't be such a radical concept. It's basically understanding that different people have had different life experiences then you.

And yet it is.

Maybe because people are treating it like a contest or challenge of some kind? Like the one with the most privilege wins or something, but it's not really about winning. It's more just about understanding.

nomotog wrote:
Privilege shouldn't be such a radical concept. It's basically understanding that different people have had different life experiences then you.

And?

There are many people with different walks of life. I grew up in sururban town where everyone was pampered to all hell. But I also lived in a city for a few years outside of the bubble and pampering.

I didn't live a privilege life. Many dakknauts here probably don't either. As a lot of people here are or were in the military.

Living in the West is a bloody privilege, being rich and white. Is a privilege. Barely having the money to pay your taxes and under constant threat of being deported, is not privilege.

Being White does have perks, but I am less likely to get a job in my career because other people follow that in suite. Whites make up around 60% of the population of the United States.So no duh there will be difficulty in finding a career.

No. If someone says, 'Hey, we should make sure that disabled people get equal treatment!', turning around replying, 'It's not about disabled people getting equal treatment, it's about everyone everywhere ever getting equal treatment!' is a very nice and convenient way of deflecting the issue. You get to hide behind a grand ideal, and belittle the other person for only looking at the small picture.

Unfortunately, what happens is that hiding behind, 'Justice for all', or in this case, 'Better video game characters for all' means that absolutely diddly squat actually happens. Because setting an insanely high goal is a good way of ensuring that nobody even tries to hit it. It's the difference between a country pledging to cut their coal power supply by twenty percent, or completely switching to green power. If you target the first, you might actually get somewhere, and take a step towards that eventual larger goal. If you just start off with the huge goal, nobody even bothers. And then nothing improves.

Big steps are made up of little steps. You want awesome characters in every game. Alright. Focus on getting more female characters in decent roles. Maybe then focus on trying to give all them slightly better back stories. Then focus on getting in a few FPS's that actually have storyline. One step at a time. Because if you just say, 'Screw putting more women in video games, you think too small! WE SHOULD MAKE EVERY GAME EVERYWHERE AMAZING' nothing will change.

A more cynical person might even be tempted to suggest that would be a deliberate motive for making such a patently absurd deflection in the first place.

The problem with that frame of mind is that is ignoring many other facets. I mean fighting games in general have a gender split. Equal between men and women. Most point and click adventure games have female characters as main characters.

Puzzle games as well also have this. The FPS genre is the smallest genre but it makes the most amount of money. The easiest games to create are point and click games not FPS. FPS is a combination of point and click. There are more tools for the FPS genre. But they are more expensive to make than lets say a puzzle game.

The thing is that alot of the things I am talking about are happening. Games writing has gotten better. I think it would be a disservice to say it hasn't.

Games have slowly started to diversify because there are more women getting into higher positions and more shared ideas and talks among the writers and game creators.

Its not 1 to 9 ratio like some people in this thread have said. Its more 50 50.

Having seen all the indie work recently and the work of many of my colleagues. At least 80% of them had females in them.

Most triple A don't have that. And considering less Triple A games are made for a dying demographic that we call hardcore gamers. Which is a stupid marketing term that was used by the Younger Games Industry that really needs to shut up and die.

The Games Industry does not have an over abundance right now. Actually no I lied. We do. All the same characters are being pumped out.

I think this year in particular has seen the rise of many female characters in prominent positions. This year we had Bioshock Infinite Burial At Sea Episode 2, Alien Isolation, The Walking Dead Season 2, Game of Thrones (TellTale), and The Last of Us. That is 5 female characters in five triple A games.Game of thrones Telltale has many female characters that are the main characters.

This is the worst part of it. Some people suffer in different ways to me? Yeah, and I suffer in different ways to other people. Why are my sufferings (whatever they may be), somehow deemed "less than" because I'm white. Why are any sufferings suffered by white people - as if that distinction even MEANS anything given just how many different types of white people there are across the world; no race is a fething hive mind collective - any more or less worthy/different/important than anyone else's?

These pointless titles seek only to divide us further into utterly meaningless categories that solve no problems.

And I'm sick of it.

I agree.

There is a problem of saying this type of thing. (But that I mean saying Check your privilege) It just divides us even more. And causes tension. There is no need to say this. Some people are privileged but not in the way that has been talked about.

Wealth being the major one.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People suffer in many ways. No ways are more worthy than others.

Do you realize nobody said otherwise? Nobody is dismissing your suffering (or at least, nobody should be). People will however tell you to feth off if you are using your own suffering to dismiss, belittle or divert attention from other peoples suffering.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You've got to be put into a box of "privilege" that is utterly detached from real life, and fails to take into account specific circumstances because it's so damned broad.

I think you are mixing up having some privilege, and being better off. You can have more privilege than someone and still be way, way worse off. Wizardchan has lots of people for have many privileges yet still are way, way worse off than most people.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why are my sufferings (whatever they may be), somehow deemed "less than" because I'm white.

The real question is: “Why, when other people talk about their sufferings, do you feel the need to focus on comparing those to your sufferings, rather than on how you can help alleviate their sufferings”.

If you want to talk about your sufferings, tell about them on their own, not as a diversion in a conversation about someone else. Just go and create a different topic. I mean, do you see homosexual people hijacking discussions on racism to say “But we have problems too, so stop talking about your problems”? How do you think any outsider would react to this kind of stuff?

 Asherian Command wrote:

nomotog wrote:
Privilege shouldn't be such a radical concept. It's basically understanding that different people have had different life experiences then you.

And?

There are many people with different walks of life. I grew up in sururban town where everyone was pampered to all hell. But I also lived in a city for a few years outside of the bubble and pampering.

I didn't live a privilege life. Many dakknauts here probably don't either. As a lot of people here are or were in the military.

Living in the West is a bloody privilege, being rich and white. Is a privilege. Barely having the money to pay your taxes and under constant threat of being deported, is not privilege.

Being White does have perks, but I am less likely to get a job in my career because other people follow that in suite. Whites make up around 60% of the population of the United States.So no duh there will be difficulty in finding a career.

There isn't really an and. It's about understanding each others struggles. Like when someone says check your privilege it means stop and think about how your situation might be different then theirs and how they might come to different conclusion then you do about the same issue.

“Why, when other people talk about their sufferings, do you feel the need to focus on comparing those to your sufferings, rather than on how you can help alleviate their sufferings”.

Then Question I would ask is why do you sit around and complain and not do anything about it?

There are people right now, being shot and killed. And your complaining?

The reality is that we can't do everything. The reality is we can't give up our fortunes and our lives to help other people. We can set up charities and donate, but our lives should not be thrown away for someone thousands of miles away because they have it worse off. I don't want to sound like a prick. Which I am!

But it is not right to say that we are privileged to be white. I didn't choose to be white, I didn't choose to have more rights than other people.

I only have chosen one to be honest and help other people when I can and wherever possible.

We as human beings are usually selfish and wanting people to know about our pain. Its what we do.

This retains and repeats and repeats. There is no such thing as living a privileged life. WE are all pretty miserable. Some are more miserable than others. There are people of different color who do have it worse than someone like me. But it does not mean that I have some hidden privilege. That is false. I don't. I live my life quite honestly and most white people do as well. The problem is that people say that. And it all causes adversity and strife. That is a problem and should stop.

I see every human being as the same. There is only one race I care about, and that is the human one. Black White, Blue Orange, I don't care. They are human beings, saying black people are a different race from white people, is completely stupid and one that makes me laugh. They are a subspecies not a completely different race entirely. Someone who is African does not have four hearts and sixteen lungs, Africans have 1 heart and 2 lungs. Like me. (There may be some who might have defects) The only biggest difference between white and black, is one is white and one is black. End of Discussion.

Human Beings are all the same and are all miserable living.

There isn't really an and. It's about understanding each others struggles. Like when someone says check your privilege it means stop and think about how your situation might be different then theirs and how they might come to different conclusion then you do about the same issue.

That only causes difficultly. You should not say check your privilege white man!

You should say. There are other people who have it worse than you. Which I agree with. But I won't say check your privilege. Unless you are fething loaded. Then I will, but that is mostly because I hate rich people.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You've got to be put into a box of "privilege" that is utterly detached from real life, and fails to take into account specific circumstances because it's so damned broad.

I agree with this, especially when wealth plays a much bigger part than race or gender. Unless someone wants to argue a white homeless man is more privileged than Oprah

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Bull gak from start to finish. People suffer in many ways. No ways are more worthy than others. This is just another way to guilt white people and I'm fething sick of it.

Who said one type of suffering was more worthy than another? Somebody seems to be projecting a lot of rage from their personal life here.

You can't just be. You can't just exist. You can't have problems and struggles unique to you, struggles that you have from birth that you cannot escape because some group of feth wits has decided that your colour or gender determines your standing in society.

Yep, definitely channeling rage from real life here. Newsflash. People suffer all over the place in different places in different ways. Bizarely enough, being rich excludes you from being poor, being male excludes you from being female, being disabled prevents you from being abled, and being white excludes you from being black (except in very specific situations in Brazil). Each of those categories comes with it's own trials and tribulations.

In this specific case, being female comes with a whole batch of problems that the other category, 'men' do not have to suffer from. And comparatively speaking, 'men' do not suffer quite as many drawbacks for being the sex they are. There are some. But not as many. In exactly the same way a rich person has problems that a poor does not, and a black person often has problems a white person does not, based upon that specific attribute.

You've got to be put into a box of "privilege" that is utterly detached from real life, and fails to take into account specific circumstances because it's so damned broad.
White people differ across the whole world. Black people differ across the whole world. Women differ across the whole world. To try and say that certain groups have privilege based upon these enormously broad concepts (I am not the same as a white guy from Estonia, any more than that white guy from Estonia is different to another white guy in Canada) is complete lunacy.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Then Question I would ask is why do you sit around and complain and not do anything about it?

Why are you sitting around not doing anything about it?

 Asherian Command wrote:
The reality is that we can't do everything.

Then, do not. Just stop dismissing others.

 Asherian Command wrote:
But it is not right to say that we are privileged to be white. I didn't choose to be white, I didn't choose to have more rights than other people.

You know, the “official” privileges, those that were part of actual law and were abolished after our revolution, people also did not choose to have them. They were born with them. That was part of the problems with them.
Having privilege is not your fault, and it does not make you a bad person. What is a problem is not realizing your privilege. Because then you cannot understand other people's experience.

 Asherian Command wrote:
They are a subspecies not a completely different race entirely.

Those words are so loaded with ideology that if they had any kind of biological relevance at any point, it is long gone now. That is therefore completely irrelevant.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The only biggest difference between white and black, is one is white and one is black. End of Discussion.

And yet, in some places, whether you are white or black will lead to some very different experience, because society is made that way. If you do not see, or refuse to see, how your experience would have been different if you were a different skin color in that society, then you need to, wait for it… check your privilege .

 Asherian Command wrote:
You should not say check your privilege white man!

You should say. There are other people who have it worse than you.

No. Because if you are the typical wizard, and the black woman you are compared to is a well-adjusted, confident, smart with a though skin, you certainly have it worse than her. You still have privilege.
Similarly, if some straight black guy and some gay white guy talk together, they may both have to check their privilege. Because it is not about having to worse or better. It is about understanding each other better.

 Ketara wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Bull gak from start to finish. People suffer in many ways. No ways are more worthy than others. This is just another way to guilt white people and I'm fething sick of it.

Who said one type of suffering was more worthy than another? Somebody seems to be projecting a lot of rage from their personal life here.

The check your privilege is basically saying and implying that.

You can't just be. You can't just exist. You can't have problems and struggles unique to you, struggles that you have from birth that you cannot escape because some group of feth wits has decided that your colour or gender determines your standing in society.

Yep, definitely channeling rage from real life here. Newsflash. People suffer all over the place in different places in different ways. Bizarely enough, being rich excludes you from being poor, being male excludes you from being female, being disabled prevents you from being abled, and being white excludes you from being black (except in very specific situations in Brazil). Each of those categories comes with it's own trials and tribulations.

In this specific case, being female comes with a whole batch of problems that the other category, 'men' do not have to suffer from. And comparatively speaking, 'men' do not suffer quite as many drawbacks for being the sex they are. There are some. But not as many. In exactly the same way a rich person has problems that a poor does not, and a black person often has problems a white person does not, based upon that specific attribute.

And being male doesn't? How many times have I been thrown out of a potential job because I lacked oh what was it called again? Oh yeah lady parts? Apparently they don't want people that can type fast.

How many people have been not allowed to come to schools because they already have enough white males.

It is a competitive world out there. And saying that white men have it good. You have no idea. We still face adversory because we are human beings. We constantly backstab, and kill each other if we rub each other the wrong way.

You've got to be put into a box of "privilege" that is utterly detached from real life, and fails to take into account specific circumstances because it's so damned broad.
White people differ across the whole world. Black people differ across the whole world. Women differ across the whole world. To try and say that certain groups have privilege based upon these enormously broad concepts (I am not the same as a white guy from Estonia, any more than that white guy from Estonia is different to another white guy in Canada) is complete lunacy.

That's why 'white privilege' is a stupid term, that only stupid people pay attention to. It's not that you have something others don't. It's that others have specific problems that you don't. Comprende, senor?

Then you agree. So don't use. Just put it under stupid terms that people use. Like Sheople, and White Cis Male. Also senor, there be strange folk abroad.

This is the worst part of it. Some people suffer in different ways to me? Yeah, and I suffer in different ways to other people. Why are my sufferings (whatever they may be), somehow deemed "less than" because I'm white. Why are any sufferings suffered by white people - as if that distinction even MEANS anything given just how many different types of white people there are across the world; no race is a fething hive mind collective - any more or less worthy/different/important than anyone else's?

Oh. Alright then. Might as well cancel all concerns about race, sex, age, and any other kind of discrimination or suffering. Because if somebody else is suffering in some way, recognising that first person's suffering would denigrate the second person's suffering. Right? I mean the concept of a scale of seriousness? Or the concept that you could *gasp* pay attention to MORE than one kind of suffering? Perish the thought!



What an absolute load of old crock.

Well we would only move forward if people you knew how to address it and weren't confrontational and say it is my fault for allowing my ancestors to be slave owners. Oh the wonderous memories. I am over hundred years old. I have even seen the great napoleonic wars. And Charlemane taking his scepter and becoming the king of the holy roman empire.

Because it is definately my fault that he didn't like the muslims that much.

If you can't tell. But this is satire and me saying this stupid, because I have been blamed before for being white. By people who identify as feminists. And you guessed it. They were white, Wait for it. Males!

So yes tell me. Oh the irony. The Sweet irony.

But jokes aside. It is a load of crock the whole situation that a bunch of white dudes all are telling me I am privileged you know people who have well paying jobs, and jobs that I wouldn't mind having.

ALA most of the men there were interestingly enough not very reliable or interested in world politics and don't know what they are talking about half the time.

nomotog wrote:
Privilege shouldn't be such a radical concept. It's basically understanding that different people have had different life experiences then you.

It's about presentation as well, though. Correct or not, when one person says "check your privilege", what the other person hears is "shut up, your opinion doesn't matter". So if you want to stop any reasoned debate, go ahead with the privileged comment. But if you want to actually have a meaningful conversation you should choose a different way of making your point.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Then Question I would ask is why do you sit around and complain and not do anything about it?

Why are you sitting around not doing anything about it?

I do. Its called charity.

Its called having lost half my family to other peoples wars.

Its called charity work. Working with people. I help other people. I do things. I don't sit my arse all day. I help people by saying hello, saying how are you. Helping people with problems. Doing my best to be a good human being.

Not someone who just ignores everyone on the road.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The reality is that we can't do everything.

Then, do not. Just stop dismissing others.

Pot meet kettle. You are very similar colors.

 Asherian Command wrote:
But it is not right to say that we are privileged to be white. I didn't choose to be white, I didn't choose to have more rights than other people.

You know, the “official” privileges, those that were part of actual law and were abolished after our revolution, people also did not choose to have them. They were born with them. That was part of the problems with them.
Having privilege is not your fault, and it does not make you a bad person. What is a problem is not realizing your privilege. Because then you cannot understand other people's experience.

^Yes because I have so much 'privilege'.

 Asherian Command wrote:
They are a subspecies not a completely different race entirely.

Those words are so loaded with ideology that if they had any kind of biological relevance at any point, it is long gone now. That is therefore completely irrelevant.

Tada!

Now you know what I am talking about.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The only biggest difference between white and black, is one is white and one is black. End of Discussion.

And yet, in some places, whether you are white or black will lead to some very different experience, because society is made that way. If you do not see, or refuse to see, how your experience would have been different if you were a different skin color in that society, then you need to, wait for it… check your privilege .

I already have. and it is nonexistant.

What privileges do I have. That I should all be concerned with.

None. I don't have any benefits. People look at me strangely on the bus all the time. When I walk down the street people ask me If I got any weed in my backpack, because I am white. So I clearly must have some. (Answer: Nope I don't.)

 Asherian Command wrote:
You should not say check your privilege white man!

You should say. There are other people who have it worse than you.

No. Because if you are the typical wizard, and the black woman you are compared to is a well-adjusted, confident, smart with a though skin, you certainly have it worse than her. You still have privilege.
Similarly, if some straight black guy and some gay white guy talk together, they may both have to check their privilege. Because it is not about having to worse or better. It is about understanding each other better.

Am I saying that? No!

There are certain regions in the world where there are white people who are shot and killed and murdered, and many other things. There are white people who go without food for months. Sometimes they have to scavenge for food. Sometimes they are in the middle of a warzone. And should I say white cis scum to one of them?

Privilge is out of reality. White Males and White Females Do not have it better. There are people who die everyday. Death is not sexist or racist. It visits us all. Some sooner than others based on where you are on the world map.

The thing is that you are all using strawman arguments to make that point. So no wonder why I would stand here and say that is wrong .

Human beings everywhere are killed.

So stop saying that just because I am white means I have privileged.

Instead check your own. Because you Live in europe and the west.

Americans have better than anyone else. Stop kidding yourselves. You all have privileges. You all have rights. Your rights are not violated like someone in the east.

So do not equate to them.

They have it worse. Your problems are minuscule compared to the ones the world faces. There are women in the world who face death for wanting to go to school. You complain that there is no representation of women in games. Yet there are. You should be more concerned that those women do not get a chance for education.

For that I step back from this conversation. Because some of you won't learn that. There are bigger fish to fry. Than video games. Leave it to us. The ones in the industry to solve. We know about it. We talk about it. We are changing it. So why fuss, if you don't see the results yet?

I understand this is a thread for that. But its not that big of an issue. Privilege is a stupid idea. And always will be. Especially when it comes from someone that lives in the west.

 DarkLink wrote:

nomotog wrote:
Privilege shouldn't be such a radical concept. It's basically understanding that different people have had different life experiences then you.

It's about presentation as well, though. Correct or not, when one person says "check your privilege", what the other person hears is "shut up, your opinion doesn't matter". So if you want to stop any reasoned debate, go ahead with the privileged comment. But if you want to actually have a meaningful conversation you should choose a different way of making your point.

The problem is expecting people to explain a complex problem hundreds, if not thousands of times. "Check your privilege" is, essentially, a shorthand, because the problem comes up time and time and time and time again.

At some point, explaining the same, well established trend shouldn't be the expected thing. People should instead be expected to know it themselves, rather than expecting others to enlighten their ignorance.

 Melissia wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:

nomotog wrote:
Privilege shouldn't be such a radical concept. It's basically understanding that different people have had different life experiences then you.

It's about presentation as well, though. Correct or not, when one person says "check your privilege", what the other person hears is "shut up, your opinion doesn't matter". So if you want to stop any reasoned debate, go ahead with the privileged comment. But if you want to actually have a meaningful conversation you should choose a different way of making your point.

The problem is expecting people to explain a complex problem hundreds, if not thousands of times. "Check your privilege" is, essentially, a shorthand, because the problem comes up time and time and time and time again.

At some point, explaining the same, well established trend shouldn't be the expected thing. People should instead be expected to know it themselves, rather than expecting others to enlighten their ignorance.

That doesn't help a situation though.

That makes it worse.

Saying check your privilege is a put down. Very childish and uncalled for.

If they don't know it. Then you should explain it.

People get my name wrong all the time. I do not expect them to know my name if they haven't met me before.

I explain to them how it is pronounced. But I won't get offended if someone gets my name wrong.

If someone says a fact wrong. I educate them. I don't put them down. I say thats all in good, but that fact is actually kind of wrong. And explain it to them. Kindly. And well. Not through putdowns or childish speech.