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Hey guys vostroyanfirstclass and I could use your help with remedying a difficult trade situation.

Last week we agreed to the following deal below. Now The packages arrived today, and I noticed a few thing with vostroyanfirstclass's package:

1. There was 4 assault marines missing, and 2 devastators (vostroyanfirstclass agreed to send me the missing model so this one is fixed).
2. The Priests weren't the actual model but kit bashes from sanguinary guard (I was ok with this as they looked fine, and he valued them less then the model cost of actual priests)
3. The Dante model, although I told was converted, it just doesn't look right. (what should we do about this)
4. Finally now although when i asked Him if the fireraptor was a recast he said he couldn't be 100% sure it wasnt, but it came in the same trade as the NIB MK 3 Marines, so he valued it at $170, as did I, under the assumption that if the marine are legit FW then the fireraptor must be aswell. But the problem comes in now that I have verified it is actually a recast, due to various reasons. It was also missing a piece other then the mentioned glass.

Now I am ok with number 1 and 2, and number 3 isnt that big, but number 4 is huge, its the difference between $170 and $40 or so. I will post photos of the raptor and Seth. I am wondering what we should do. He says since he never said it was legit FW that he was ok to value it at $170, and he said he is not gonna budge on that, nor offer any compensation because that is what he bought/traded it for originally. I feel i should be given compensation because it is a recast when I was expecting the authentic thing, and he feels I deserve nothing.

Now to let you know, I have done many deals with vostroyanfirstclass in the past, which is why this is not a bad trader report, but rather we are wondering what you guys think about the situation. He is a stand up guys and we are friends. But we cannot settle this between ourselves and are asking for your help.

Pictures of the Raptor: http://imgur.com/a/RjMoR

Now the reasons why I suspect it is a recast, just so you know I have had recasts before so I have expereicne:
- The whole thing is resin not resin/plastic like the FW kits
- The problem with the casting, pieces not fitting together
- The smell and color of resin

What would you guys do if anything to fix this situation? Request a trade back, ask for additional models to make up for the raptor? Let us know what you think.

My Guard:

1x Storm Lord (painted)
2x FW Medusa's (Painted)
3x Leman Russ (Painted)
3x Hydra/Wyvern Conversions (Painted)
2x Chimeras (Not Painted)
2x Vendettas (Painted except for las cannons)
40x Veterans with 4 Sqaud Leaders (Painted)

For His Blood Angels:

HQ:
1 Sanguinius (painted)
1 Lemartes (painted)
5 Command Squad (1 painted)
1 Gabriel Seth
1 Captain Tycho (painted)

Elite:
3 Sanguinary Priests (painted)
1 Brother Corbulo
1 Brother Corbulo in Terminator Armor
6 Terminators TH/SS

Troops:
40 Assault Marines (double meltas per squad) (20 painted, rest base coated)
20 MkIII FW Iron Armors NIB

Fast Attacks:
1 Fire Raptor (use as storm eagle, base coated green as I took it from my DA but really light and can paint over really easily. Canopy cover missing but will send molded one instead)

Heavy Supports:
15 Devasdators (5-10 painted)
1x GK Rhino with GK doors.

Did you ask for photos prior to the trade?

 Swan-of-War wrote:
Did you ask for photos prior to the trade?

I did, but I coudln't tell the Raptor was recast in them.

to be fair, that doesnt seem to say it's 100% recast... I've bought lots of forgeworld that didnt fit together and needed extensive repair work. ive also bought lots of forgeworld that didnt have plastic.

that said, i also buy lots of recasts knowingly. ive also sold or traded them before but i always make sure to explicitlylet the buyer know. most times by the time i clean it up and prime it you can't tell, but its not fair to advertise it as real when its a recast (even if theyre basically the exact same thing)

I once bought a nice guitar off kijiji that was pricey but still a killer deal. 2 years later i decide to sell it. met the guy, made the transaction. upon getting it home and further investigation he was lead to believe it was a fake reproduction. his points made enough sense to me and i couldnt say 100% he was wrong so i reimbursed him.

in this case, i think the fair thing for your friend to do is reimburse you the difference between the new price and the recast price. if hes broke then he could compensate you in models.

on the other hand, if youre friends it wouldnt be the most insane thing to just let it slide. at the end of the day its still the model, its still usable. it looks fine to me, im sure a little TLC and itll be 100% good to go. if he wont compensate you in models or cash though, its a pretty douchey move. just because he got ripped off (if he actually did) doesnt mean he can pass that along.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, the cheapest fire raptor recast ive seen is 70-80bucks US, not the 40 you were stating. if you can find me a good recast for 40 bucks id be all over it lol

Yeah, like this man said, not at war or anything. Just am interested in what the community thinks of this situation and would approach this. Here are some parts from our convo we had on Facebook.

*picture of the sanguinary priests n heroes n stuff(also sent more will provide when relevant/on request)*
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/10799326_10205091135179546_117709435_n.jpg?oh=ea559c9130af8c1ed6086cb7a4a0127b&oe=5480E2D7&__gda__=1417669155_83f400b12143e464ef59f026c05df2bc

*pictures of the fire raptor I provided*
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/10799733_10205077733524513_228985093_n.jpg?oh=43525c9838969b917584dd0d87f3ec97&oe=5480ACA8&__gda__=1417714972_c51c988f01ce9d29296f63674546d97a
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t34.0-12/10416892_10205077733444511_1072848727_n.jpg?oh=e47cb18c8063d74f37dd5a6ca523ce6f&oe=5480A043&__gda__=1417714734_e690d42213250454f3dd0e75dcbfc48c
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/10799733_10205077733484512_1474777780_n.jpg?oh=cba5a2bb882c7e391a6eacb262550e32&oe=547FAD42&__gda__=1417731347_a4e993e6bfb881799a994c34797a7b8e
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t34.0-12/10751864_10205077733564514_2058897905_n.jpg?oh=1e37fc510859faf224191a445f3a6d05&oe=547FAA7B&__gda__=1417733195_d08c2d88a2311a0b3fcdcbe63bb0f7b4


1) here is what I said regarding the fire raptor:

Kevin Armitage
"it is legit FW?"

Ken Wei
"I got it in a trade. BUTTTT I got it in the same trade with the same guy who gave me all my 100% legit MKIII
and i sent pictures"

i didn't peel off the paint
and i didn't do anythign with it
as far as could tell
the resin is LIGHTER than recasts
since recasts are all darker
shade of resin
and we had this conversation
in the past

the resin is lighter, I got it in a trade which I informed you, however it's from the guy who gave me legit FW stuff as well
those are facts
I told you said facts
and I really am not sure if it even is recast or not lol
since i've never seen recasts done in that colour resin
I am not a con artist or a scammer by any means
if anything, I am quite unhappy about you trying to pressure me to add money or more models to a trade and insisting I was not only 50$ short but 100$ short
when facts stated otherwise


2) the gabriel seth & sanguinary priests:
yeah
the stuff that dont have models
basically
i sent you the pictures for them right?
priests have wings
the brother corbulo has a special resin jump pack
and the brother corbulo in terminator armour + cup
and gabriel seth i switched out the torso for
a better looking one
^What that meant was I switched out the body section of the model for a better looking one which I did. If you look on GW site, the chainsword arm and the cool looking backpack are the same ones that come from the original model. Just the head and body was switched that means I scrapped a gabriel seth and a death company model to make that but I'll admit I was kind of vague in stating this so I'll give this to you.

as for the sanguinary priests since they have no real models (1 pose resin and crap looking) were conversions

let me finish first. I will send you either a full box of assault marines OR whatever to make up for the cost of the missing guys
and as far as gabriel seth, I didn't use parts from a cheaper kit to kit bash him
i used his own metal kit
PLUS converted parts from a death company captain
so I don't see how its not fair
and he does look better with a helmet on than with one off (but thats debatable and taste dependent)
thats why i valued him at GW retail price
the sanguinary priests i didn't value at retail price
i valued at 40$ for 3
the fire raptor I valued it at what I paid for it
i traded for it + the 20 MKII marines + 400$
my lizard men army
i calculated it at 170 for that trade


3) regarding the assault marines and parts missing:
the missing canopy I covered up at top stating it was missing, I said I added additional FW inquisitor door for it
the devastators and assault marines missing I will make up for

OP, you are being unreasonable here.

Not being happy with the models is entirely your fault, unless the other person gave you misleading pictures. It is your responsibility as a buyer to carefully look at the pictures and make sure the models are exactly what you want, and if you didn't ask for better pictures (or ask for pictures at all) then you're effectively saying that you don't care about the details as long as they match the label. The fact that you think a model "doesn't look right" does not mean you get a refund.

Getting a recast model is also entirely your fault. You asked if it was a recast, the other person said they weren't sure. You decided to buy it at that price anyway, knowing that it might be a recast. This isn't a case of a dishonest seller, it's a case of you regretting a trade because you didn't get a "fair" price. You agreed to $170, that's the end of it. Consider it a lesson that, if you care so strongly about getting a legitimate model, you should only buy models that are 100% guaranteed to be legitimate and never accept trades that could be recasts.

The thing with me is, taking a double hit on the raptor is kind of unfair for me. So if I reimburse him, then I would have to be reimbursed myself in all fairness right?
Also, a trade back is kind of meh since I am bringing this to a tourney and already bought models to add to the IGs.
I can add money/ models as compensation but has to be within reason and justifiable by me.

seeing the post I'm going to side with vostroyan on this one.
i still say that just because you got ripped off doesnt mean you can pass it along, but you clearly told him you werent sure.

if you got it in a trade and everythying else was legit, it looks fine and you made lots of comments about it... what else can you do? even if you DID strip it... how could you be sure?

he knew it wasn't 100%... made the trade anyways.
if stuff was missing, reimburse him for that. move on.

i still want to find a 40 dollar recast fire raptor.

VostroyanFirstClass wrote:
The thing with me is, taking a double hit on the raptor is kind of unfair for me. So if I reimburse him, then I would have to be reimbursed myself in all fairness right?
Also, a trade back is kind of meh since I am bringing this to a tourney and already bought models to add to the IGs.
I can add money/ models as compensation but has to be within reason and justifiable by me.

Don't add anything. OP is just trying to extort additional money because they don't like the mistake they made and want someone else to pay for it.

At the very least, Vostroyan owes you for the missing models. Anything beyond that would be out of his own good will.

It doesn't seem like he misrepresented the Fireraptor. He told you up front what he thought, so in this case, caveat emptor..

twinner wrote:
Hey guys vostroyanfirstclass and I could use your help with remedying a difficult trade situation.

Last week we agreed to the following deal below. Now The packages arrived today, and I noticed a few thing with vostroyanfirstclass's package:

1. There was 4 assault marines missing, and 2 devastators (vostroyanfirstclass agreed to send me the missing model so this one is fixed).

He needs to give what is agreed and sounds like he is.

2. The Priests weren't the actual model but kit bashes from sanguinary guard (I was ok with this as they looked fine, and he valued them less then the model cost of actual priests)

If you're ok with it then why is it even on the list?

3. The Dante model, although I told was converted, it just doesn't look right. (what should we do about this)

He told you it was converted. Ask for pics and if you need more from a different angle ask for those also. This is your own fault. Vostroyan shouldn't need to do anything about this.

4. Finally now although when i asked Him if the fireraptor was a recast he said he couldn't be 100% sure it wasnt, but it came in the same trade as the NIB MK 3 Marines, so he valued it at $170, as did I, under the assumption that if the marine are legit FW then the fireraptor must be aswell. But the problem comes in now that I have verified it is actually a recast, due to various reasons. It was also missing a piece other then the mentioned glass.

You knew it could be and still agreed to the price. Deal is done. If I value a toilet paper roll at $50 and you agree to it you can't ask for money back once you get it. Haggling over the price and value of goods happens before the trade is complete not after. It sounds like Vostroyan covered his bases and you are nit picking at this point.

Final Verdict is the trade was done in good faith and aside from sending the models that were agreed on or an acceptable substitute nothing else needs to be done.

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback, Him and said we would leave it up to you guys. So I will only request the missing model.

This only adds so much to the discussion, but the colour of the resin has no bearing on its legitimacy. The grey colouring is an additive, and getting the same colour out of it every time is not really an exact science. If you look at enough kits, even of good old GW plastic, you'll find all kinds of stuff that looks different.

The fire raptor looks legit from the pics.

looks better than some of the recasts I have seen, however some of the recasts I have seen also look better than FW stuff...so keep in mind FW is not always that great.

fwiw- you two seem quite amicable in how you are handling your dispute, well done and classy to both of you.

So what I am sending:
a set of 5 FW bolters as well as the assault marines
and whatever bits and ends I can find :3
Thank you for all the help friends!!

As a brand new member here I want to say "Attaboy" to both of you! Very cool to see things handled this way.

Yeah guys, like I said we wanted the communities opinion. I was not trying to squeeze anything out of him, this is our 5th deal and we didn't know how to handle the situation. So instead of fighting we consulted you guys.

Prefaces:
I am an Admin on Bartertown.
Bartertown has specific rules regarding pics, etc.
When I trade OFF of Bartertown, regardless where, I follow the Bartertown rules (personally) and ask any relevant questions to ensure that the other party has followed them, as well.
Most of Bartertown's rules are "common sense" rules for trading.

...and most importantly...

I understand that we. Are. Not. On. Bartertown. LOL


That said, Bartertown has a rule that is is the responsibility of each trader to wholly and accurately represent his items, regardless as to whether or not his trade partner asked. This is one of those "common sense" rules. If my stuff is assembled crappily and horribly painted, just saying "assembled and painted" isn't enough. I need to let him know they're crap.

So...



This image covers two points:
1) It does NOT look like the quality casting you should expect from Forgeworld.
2) This view was not provided by the owner before the trade. Seeing it, the OP would surely have seen a warning sign or QUALITY, if not recasting.

Of course, I"m not saying VFC purposefully misled him. On the contrary; he has a good reputation and no reason to. I'm just saying that this is something that should have been mentioned for BOTH reasons above.

My personal opinion is that VFC should find a way to make up for it. I think $40 is a bit low value, but there has to me SOME reasonable middle ground.

Eric

Look at the nose seams. Ugh. It's not good.


In terms of resolution, at a minimum, all items that were promised should be delivered at no additional charge.

As far as the recast goes, if this image was provided upfront, then that does a fair job of representing the model in terms of build quality and/or potential recast. Picture of the bottom isn't seen often during play, so it's not unreasonable to not take a picture of it. If the seller feels bad about taking $170 for a $40 recast, then they might throw the other guy a bone to take the sting out of it.

In my area there is a person recasting tons of FW so........Becareful of any trades for British Columbia, Canada

Forgeworld is a very varying company. I have purchased many legit FW models and the resin color is never the same. My FW Scorpion had different color resin within the same kit.

FQ quality is never 100% either I have gotten some really nicely cast models from FW and some others that had so many problems from miscasts to warping that I just sell or trade the model for a loss. I have gotten knock-offs that are better quality than FW and some that are worse.

You could always contact FW and explain you bought what you thought was a FW model and received a fake and see what they do.