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Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



UK - Warwickshire

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Hoping someone walks in to your shops which have big "Games Workshop" signs and miniatures in the windows is a form of advertising. It's why GW shop keepers are trained to jump all over anyone who walks in the store to try and either get them in to an intro game if they've never played before or get them to buy something if they are a return customer. Instead of going for broad advertising in magazines/TV/bus stops they prefer getting hold of less people but in a more controlled environment.



I dont seem to have the same experience of GW stores as the rest of the world...
When I go into my local GW, (which might be 3-4 times in a year tops ; so I wouldnt class myself a regular, as theyve usually changed manager every time I go in.)
What I see first is the same locals that were there last time. Theres about 4 or 5 faces that seem to be part of the furniture, theyre not staff, just hang out there it seems.
The manager is most of the time sat at the painting table with these guys busy working at his latest project. While they all natter about whatever is the topic of the day... last time it was something about comic book plotlines... so isnt always hobby related.
I get left to browse the shelves with not much more than a hello from the manager,

If I want to purchase anything, I'm left to browse the shop, pick it up myself and take it to the till.. I could stand by the till for quite a while before the manager noticed I even wanted to buy something unless I vocally prompt him to do his job.
He makes no pressure for me to buy more or to buy anything really... I could be shop lifting for all he knows, I'm pretty sure his attention is mostly on the mini he's working on and the regulars he's chatting with while he's doin it. I only just got acknowledgement that I entered the store... seems I'm not part of the clique or something.

Who are these managers that pounce on customers? (its not just the one guy either... the shops had 3-4 different managers in as many visits... only one of them tried the hard sell... and frankly the guy was being a w*nker and I think he knew I thought so ; didnt make many sales funnily.

Is my local store the weird one? cus its so contrasting with the experiences I read about on dakka. I find them a bit... how should I say... overly relaxed and not even bothered if im buying anything atall. (maybe those regular faces buy so much that he doesnt need to give much of a toss...who knows)






This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 18:52:16


'Ain't nothing crazy about me but my brain. Right brain? Riight! No not you right brain! Right left brain? Right!... Okay then lets do this!! 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





This is similar to how my GW is, except the manager is better at interacting with customers. He doesn't try the hard sell, just chats with them and breaks his attention from the regulars while there are other customers in the store.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Toofast wrote:
This is similar to how my GW is, except the manager is better at interacting with customers. He doesn't try the hard sell, just chats with them and breaks his attention from the regulars while there are other customers in the store.

This is the problem that stores that follow the GW model face... People who are good at the hard sell leave customers not realising that they're copping the hard sell.

But those people are few and far between. For every salesman who is good at what they do, there's a dozen of the over-eager teenagers who try to sell you a battleforce to go with the pot of paint that you just walked in with, or spend 15 minutes loudly extolling the virtues of the latest release for an army that you have no interest in. And those sorts of salesmen hurt a business, because customers who encounter them often won't come back.

 
   
Made in ca
2nd Lieutenant





HairySticks wrote:


When I go into my local GW, (which might be 3-4 times in a year tops ; so I wouldnt class myself a regular, as theyve usually changed manager every time I go in.)



I would suggest that if every ~6 months there is a new manager, not going for the hard sell isn't doing them any favors in the sales department.
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



UK - Warwickshire

Maybe I've not given him a fair observation ; as stated I dont exactly go all the time, also I'l admit im not there for hours on end when I do. Generally I know what I wanted to buy, maybe will impulse buy something (paint), one instance I recall I wanted ork storm boyz. They had none... I walked away with a fighta bomma, a much more expensive kit. With zero interaction from the salesman (lol I'd talked myself out of some extra coin and to this day still didnt get those stormboyz!!)
Maybe theyre just good enough to know by the cut of my jib that im there to buy a specific thing and will lay the pennies down if theyve got it (will even talk myself into more expensive alternatives on occasion it seems)
(maybe I'm giving them too much credit hehehe)

'Ain't nothing crazy about me but my brain. Right brain? Riight! No not you right brain! Right left brain? Right!... Okay then lets do this!! 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator



Essex, UK

Red Bull is a TERRIBLE example. They have continual TV adverts in prime time. They have a several hundred million dollar marketing budget for events alone which sees their branding plastered all over Xtreme Sports, Music Events, Motor Racing... even a SPACE JUMP!

Red Bull spend second only to Coca Cola when it comes to marketing their product externally.

Games Workshop spend precisely zero.

Yet their entire business model is centred around drawing in new customers. Ask any GW manager what their targets are, it isnt just a revenue point, they have to sell a certain number of starter boxes to new customers.

Again, I will go back to the point of the free publicity you could get by engaging with 'known' people who have an interest in their product. Why do I not see photos on their (non-existent) social media of the actor Ansel Elgort to name a recent example in a GW store? Or even on his own social media stream showing off product he has been sent directly by the GW marketing department?

They are missing so many avenues of promotion it hurts my brain. Yet they continue to up prices and bleed profits from their existing and shrinking customer base.

This won't change any time soon though, the current board clearly have a very firmly set vision of 'their hobby' and whilst the shareholders are being paid their very nice dividends there will be no pressure to change. However looking at the last 3 years of revenue and sales trends these dividends will not last long. And that is when pressure will be applied on the current board to actually join everyone else in 2015 and utilise modern retail business practises.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Well, there was the time Sylvestor McCoy (Radagast) was spotted buying a copy of Escpae from Goblin Town (with Radagast).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 22:21:58


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

AlexRae wrote:
Red Bull is a TERRIBLE example. They have continual TV adverts in prime time. They have a several hundred million dollar marketing budget for events alone which sees their branding plastered all over Xtreme Sports, Music Events, Motor Racing... even a SPACE JUMP!

Red Bull spend second only to Coca Cola when it comes to marketing their product externally.

Games Workshop spend precisely zero.


Ok, now read what I wrote and try again.

I didn't make any comparisons with Red Bull's direct advertising budget and GW's - I made a comparison between a company that spends money on indirect advertising poorly (GW) and one that does it very well (Red Bull.) I didn't mention, nor would I, on account of not being a fool, any comparison between how they spend their money on direct advertising.


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
2nd Lieutenant





 Azreal13 wrote:
AlexRae wrote:
Red Bull is a TERRIBLE example. They have continual TV adverts in prime time. They have a several hundred million dollar marketing budget for events alone which sees their branding plastered all over Xtreme Sports, Music Events, Motor Racing... even a SPACE JUMP!

Red Bull spend second only to Coca Cola when it comes to marketing their product externally.

Games Workshop spend precisely zero.


Ok, now read what I wrote and try again.

I didn't make any comparisons with Red Bull's direct advertising budget and GW's - I made a comparison between a company that spends money on indirect advertising poorly (GW) and one that does it very well (Red Bull.) I didn't mention, nor would I, on account of not being a fool, any comparison between how they spend their money on direct advertising.



I would argue that it's hard to call owning the F1 team indirect advertising given it means that the car is plastered with their logo, something other companies spend big money on.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

The thing is, indirect advertising only works if the company is known. In the case of Red Bull, if their indirect advertising works for them, it's because everybody has seen the ads and knows what Red Bull is.

Indirect advertising doesn't sell you the product. It just makes you more likely to remember the name.

 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Yet GW still persists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dawnbringer wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
AlexRae wrote:
Red Bull is a TERRIBLE example. They have continual TV adverts in prime time. They have a several hundred million dollar marketing budget for events alone which sees their branding plastered all over Xtreme Sports, Music Events, Motor Racing... even a SPACE JUMP!

Red Bull spend second only to Coca Cola when it comes to marketing their product externally.

Games Workshop spend precisely zero.


Ok, now read what I wrote and try again.

I didn't make any comparisons with Red Bull's direct advertising budget and GW's - I made a comparison between a company that spends money on indirect advertising poorly (GW) and one that does it very well (Red Bull.) I didn't mention, nor would I, on account of not being a fool, any comparison between how they spend their money on direct advertising.



I would argue that it's hard to call owning the F1 team indirect advertising given it means that the car is plastered with their logo, something other companies spend big money on.



They get their name mentioned every single time the team is mentioned, even on the BBC which is, by definition, a non-commercial broadcaster. You won't find any other sponsors name checked like Red Bull are every single time their car is mentioned, only the manufacturers that have teams or supply tyres, engines etc get anything like the same exposure.

All ways up, sponsorship is a form of indirect advertising by definition anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 22:47:45


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Long Jetty, The place is a dump

If GW is expected to continue the current operational profit regime, then all I can say they should expect to once again post a dreadful global sales decline of 11 million pounds+

I have heard that GW will post a full year sales loss of approximately 3 million pounds in the Australian sector. This plus that GW can't gut their Australian Operations any further unless they begin to shut stores and sack staff, they have reached and surpassed the tipping point in Australia.

The problem for GW seems that they have saturated their market with too many releases, an appalling scattergun theology that has too many not knowing what is coming next.

Then again, when Tom Kirby is still the major share holder of the company and still part of the board, no wonder GW is in decline.

Also remember that at one point GW shares were 28+ British Pounds, a shocking state of decline for a once proud company.

But when you treat your Investors higher than the folks that actually spend money on product, then you deserve everything you get.


"Ultramarines are Wusses".... Chapter Master Achaylus Bonecrusher

 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 insaniak wrote:
The thing is, indirect advertising only works if the company is known. In the case of Red Bull, if their indirect advertising works for them, it's because everybody has seen the ads and knows what Red Bull is.
Indirect advertising doesn't sell you the product. It just makes you more likely to remember the name.
This has bothered me the most with them.
There is no public advertising to speak of.
To catch the eye of the general public and with little or no drive within FLGS to flog their wares it is becoming a crisis of not catching any eyeball time.
If they could at least put out a good live action movie or something.
Could you imagine getting the same people who put together "Guardians of the Universe"?
"Take my money please!" springs to mind.
Showing the glee of that racoon's face with the big gun and do the same for an Ork = blockbuster.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Achaylus72 wrote:
If GW is expected to continue the current operational profit regime, then all I can say they should expect to once again post a dreadful global sales decline of 11 million pounds+

I have heard that GW will post a full year sales loss of approximately 3 million pounds in the Australian sector. This plus that GW can't gut their Australian Operations any further unless they begin to shut stores and sack staff, they have reached and surpassed the tipping point in Australia.


Can I ask where? I seem to remember you posting similar things in another thread, but it emerged it was your turn of phrase and was actually more what you thought than what you heard.


The problem for GW seems that they have saturated their market with too many releases, an appalling scattergun theology that has too many not knowing what is coming next.

This isn't helping, no, but it isn't really the problem that's causing the major issues.


Then again, when Tom Kirby is still the major share holder of the company and still part of the board, no wonder GW is in decline.


He's not the majority share holder, he is the largest individual stakeholder, but there are institutions, at time of writing, that own a greater %.



Also remember that at one point GW shares were 28+ British Pounds, a shocking state of decline for a once proud company.

Nope, never, their high point was just under £9 about 10 years ago.


But when you treat your Investors higher than the folks that actually spend money on product, then you deserve everything you get.



This is actually the state of affairs for many publicly traded companies, it's just GW suck at it.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in au
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





oz

I dont know about you's but honestly i don't like being hounded whilst im shopping

Honestly i dont see why they dont advertise in like gaming magazines and whatnot

or just on tv

If their completely unwilling to invest a cent into advertising then honestly that just goes to show how much confidence they have in their product

and if wargaming became a bit more known and mainstream it would be less marginalised
   
Made in us
Imperial Agent Provocateur





Baltimore, MD

Years ago when I worked for GW I got a visit from the head of North American Retail Sandra Casey. I shared with her an idea I had to drive customers to the GW stores, that maybe have never been to one.

My idea was that we put a little flyer in the boxes of licensed GW video games saying that if the individual went to a GW store and got an introductory experience then the GW person would give them a code for some kind of exclusive digital gubin in whatever video game it was that brought them there.

Her answer was that it was an excellent idea, but that it was opposed to there business plan of advertising by word of mouth and so they would not even consider it. Quickly followed by asking me what I was doing to drive more customers to my store. They are quite determined not to advertise.

A bit later at one of the training events in Memphis I sat next to a lady from GW UK. I shared with her the same idea. She loved the idea and said she would take it back to the UK and see what the licensing guys had to say about it. I've not bought a GW licensed game in awhile. Anyone seen any evidence of this?

Kind of seems like a no brainer to me. There are quite a few people that play GW video games that have never heard of or experienced the table top game. Seems like one of the reasons to license video games (and other genre) is to find a new way to get people introduced to your products. I little flyer does have cost, but not that much cost. ;shrug Made sense to me.
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator



Essex, UK

That actually brings me back to my previous point of engaging with higher profile players of the game.

What spreads word of mouth better than seeing cool involved in the hobby? And it costs nothing. I'm truly baffled by their backwards marketing plans.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





HairySticks wrote:I dont seem to have the same experience of GW stores as the rest of the world...
When I go into my local GW, (which might be 3-4 times in a year tops ; so I wouldnt class myself a regular, as theyve usually changed manager every time I go in.)
What I see first is the same locals that were there last time. Theres about 4 or 5 faces that seem to be part of the furniture, theyre not staff, just hang out there it seems.
The manager is most of the time sat at the painting table with these guys busy working at his latest project. While they all natter about whatever is the topic of the day... last time it was something about comic book plotlines... so isnt always hobby related.
I get left to browse the shelves with not much more than a hello from the manager,

I'd say that's a rarity. There's 3 stores I visit occasionally in my city (probably on average 3 or 4 times a year) and they have always had workers who come up to have a chat. And when I say always, I mean the past 19 years I've been in the hobby. We're talking dozens of different managers and workers and it's always been that way. Only a few would just say "hi" and let you go about your business.

That's in Australia, while living in the US I've also been to GW stores in Philly and (I think, my memory is poor ) just outside Washington and they were both the same, workers come up to have a chat.

mitch_rifle wrote:I dont know about you's but honestly i don't like being hounded whilst im shopping
Honestly, it's never bothered me. It's always puzzled me why it bothers other people so much. It doesn't interfere with my browsing in the slightest. I didn't even notice until a few years after I started collecting and a mate of mine told me that it annoys him. It's puzzled me why it bothers people so much... but then I guess I'm the sort of person who likes it when people are polite and say g'day g'day, how ya goin', what d'ya know, well strike a light

The really creepy one was this hobby store I used to frequent as a kid. The owner wouldn't even say hello unless you said it first and he'd just stare at you while you browsed the store. I'm sure he was just worried about kids stealing stuff but it was creepy as all hell and I never spent much time there. Much prefer someone chatting to me than that.

Honestly i dont see why they dont advertise in like gaming magazines and whatnot

or just on tv

If their completely unwilling to invest a cent into advertising then honestly that just goes to show how much confidence they have in their product

I can see why they don't bother with TV or magazines. It's a niche market which I think most people would just ignore in mainstream advertising. You can't compare it to red bull, where you walk in to any shop looking for a drink and you see red bull in the fridge lined up next to other drinks and so having good brand awareness can help sell your product. If someone saw a GW ad on TV they'd have to actively seek out a GW and frankly I think damned near everyone will see an ad for toy soldiers and not give a damn.

GW aren't the only wargaming company... none of them do mainstream advertising (at least not that I've seen). They all just stick to advertising in places where nerds will already be (advertising through strategy video games, advertising in stores, both independent stores and their own stores) and any mainstream advertising is left to random walk ins or customers word of mouth (where you have a better chance of explaining why wargames are cool instead of just being little man dollies on a TV or magazine ad).

The only form of mainstream advertising which I think would be useful is cheap starter sets in other stores like walmart, kmart, book stores, etc, but I think their prices are so high these days that it might not be effective anyway.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/24 01:52:53


 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator



Essex, UK

TV advertising is a proven failure for GW and unless they were launching 8th edition 40k it would be a big waste of time and money.

   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Yes, its a monumentally egregious mistake not to include a flyer for the LOTR/Hobbit SBG range in every Middle Earth dvd or video game.

Doubly so for Warhammer Fantasy and 40,000 licenced video games like Space Marine. Hell, as they own the IP for Warhammer GW could even make it a condition of the licence.

   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Once more - I never compared GW to Red Bull, I used Red Bull as an example of a company that does indirect marketing well, which GW does not. They do, however, appear to be in need of some shelf appeal alongside the other wargaming companies in the wargaming fridge.

It is perfectly feasible for GW to conduct effective indirect marketing without being a massive globally known household name - anything that encourages wargamers to speak favourably to other wargamers or potential wargamers about GW products could be considered to have done it's job.

It is largely unnecessary for a 70 year old man living in a very rural area in a country very distant from any of GW's key territories to hear about Warhammer. It is important that GW catch the eye of non-GW gamers, ex-GW gamers and potential GW gamers. The shops are a limited means of achieving that, and word of mouth appears to have been losing effectiveness dramatically recently.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Azreal13 wrote:
Once more - I never compared GW to Red Bull, I used Red Bull as an example of a company that does indirect marketing well, which GW does not.
Oh I know... it's just since we're talking about them I thought I'd use them as an example of why direct mainstream marketing would be more effective for a company that sells a drink vs a company that sells a product as niche as table top wargaming. I don't think wargaming companies should try to emulate music/movies/games/energy drink in the way of direct advertising. If they do direct advertising it'd probably be more aimed at parents as a way to get their kids out of the house and away from the computer

Gamers already complain about the operating costs of stores, I only imagine they'd complain even more about multi million dollar advertising campaigns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/24 02:13:13


 
   
Made in us
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

I got into the hobby because I saw an ad for the lord of the rings magazine on TV. While I don't think an ad for general GW products would work well that did, and I think if they advertised something like space hulk they would see a lot more people interested in it and being introduced to the wider hobby as a result.

Even putting that aside though there us NO justification for GWs measly or entire lack of presence at conventions and the like. That is where they should be going all out to try and draw attention back to them in an environment where everyone is already part of that niche market.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Gamers already complain about the operating costs of stores, I only imagine they'd complain even more about multi million dollar advertising campaigns.

Maybe instead of passing the costs off onto their customers GW could invest some profits rather than pay a dividend, or maybe even just invest the same amount they already are more wisely *cough*new website*cough*.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/24 02:23:17


 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Once more - I never compared GW to Red Bull, I used Red Bull as an example of a company that does indirect marketing well, which GW does not.
Oh I know... it's just since we're talking about them I thought I'd use them as an example of why direct mainstream marketing would be more effective for a company that sells a drink vs a company that sells a product as niche as table top wargaming. I don't think wargaming companies should try to emulate music/movies/games/energy drink in the way of direct advertising. If they do direct advertising it'd probably be more aimed at parents as a way to get their kids out of the house and away from the computer

Gamers already complain about the operating costs of stores, I only imagine they'd complain even more about multi million dollar advertising campaigns.


Fair enough.

Worth remembering that high caffeine energy drinks weren't really a thing before Red Bull, mind - they took a niche product with limited appeal and through nothing to speak of except judicious application of the advertising budget turned it into a god knows how many millions global market segment, and largely retained its position as the premium brand.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Azreal13 wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Once more - I never compared GW to Red Bull, I used Red Bull as an example of a company that does indirect marketing well, which GW does not.
Oh I know... it's just since we're talking about them I thought I'd use them as an example of why direct mainstream marketing would be more effective for a company that sells a drink vs a company that sells a product as niche as table top wargaming. I don't think wargaming companies should try to emulate music/movies/games/energy drink in the way of direct advertising. If they do direct advertising it'd probably be more aimed at parents as a way to get their kids out of the house and away from the computer

Gamers already complain about the operating costs of stores, I only imagine they'd complain even more about multi million dollar advertising campaigns.


Fair enough.

Worth remembering that high caffeine energy drinks weren't really a thing before Red Bull, mind - they took a niche product with limited appeal and through nothing to speak of except judicious application of the advertising budget turned it into a god knows how many millions global market segment, and largely retained its position as the premium brand.
That is true, though it's still a drink and a drink is always going to have (at least potential) mainstream appeal. You put it in fridges next to Coke and Mountain Dew and the advertising kicks in. Where as I think table top wargaming is always going to be a niche because I tend to think it's only ever going to appeal to a very specific type of person. Which doesn't necessarily mean TV/magazine/etc advertising won't work, but I can definitely see the reasoning to not wanting to pursue it,

After all, GW isn't the only table top wargaming company and as far as I'm aware, none of them advertise in the same way as you see is typical of movies/music/video games/food/drink/cars/etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/24 13:30:50


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

Anyone remember the D&D Saturday morning cartoon? Man, I'm old but that's an example of marketing.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Silver Spring, MD

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Once more - I never compared GW to Red Bull, I used Red Bull as an example of a company that does indirect marketing well, which GW does not.
Oh I know... it's just since we're talking about them I thought I'd use them as an example of why direct mainstream marketing would be more effective for a company that sells a drink vs a company that sells a product as niche as table top wargaming. I don't think wargaming companies should try to emulate music/movies/games/energy drink in the way of direct advertising. If they do direct advertising it'd probably be more aimed at parents as a way to get their kids out of the house and away from the computer

Gamers already complain about the operating costs of stores, I only imagine they'd complain even more about multi million dollar advertising campaigns.


Fair enough.

Worth remembering that high caffeine energy drinks weren't really a thing before Red Bull, mind - they took a niche product with limited appeal and through nothing to speak of except judicious application of the advertising budget turned it into a god knows how many millions global market segment, and largely retained its position as the premium brand.
That is true, though it's still a drink and a drink is always going to have (at least potential) mainstream appeal. You put it in fridges next to Coke and Mountain Dew and the advertising kicks in. Where as I think table top wargaming is always going to be a niche because I tend to think it's only ever going to appeal to a very specific type of person. Which doesn't necessarily mean TV/magazine/etc advertising won't work, but I can definitely see the reasoning to not wanting to pursue it,

After all, GW isn't the only table top wargaming company and as far as I'm aware, none of them advertise in the same way as you see is typical of movies/music/video games/food/drink/cars/etc.

And this is exactly why GW needs their specialist games and a robust stable of tie-in video games. You can advertise for a video game, and people will understand it immediately. You can advertise for a (relatively) straightforward board game, and people will understand that too. You reel people in with more accessible products, and then they're introduced to the wider game universe.

Trying to run a TV or magazine advert for 7th edition 40k is a loser right out of the gate. An ad for Space Hulk (digital or physical game, either way) actually has a chance of working.

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 agnosto wrote:
Anyone remember the D&D Saturday morning cartoon? Man, I'm old but that's an example of marketing.


And the D&D comic book.

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 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
And this is exactly why GW needs their specialist games and a robust stable of tie-in video games. You can advertise for a video game, and people will understand it immediately. You can advertise for a (relatively) straightforward board game, and people will understand that too. You reel people in with more accessible products, and then they're introduced to the wider game universe.

Trying to run a TV or magazine advert for 7th edition 40k is a loser right out of the gate. An ad for Space Hulk (digital or physical game, either way) actually has a chance of working.
Definitely agree. I have always thought GW was very short sighted in not supporting specialist games and downright moronic when they axed them all. They created these awesome expansive universes in 40k and WHFB but instead of exploiting them with lots of board games and spin offs (I mean come on, Aeronautica Imperialis was a great game) they've gone tunnel vision on the core games.
   
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AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Spoiler:
 Azreal13 wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Once more - I never compared GW to Red Bull, I used Red Bull as an example of a company that does indirect marketing well, which GW does not.
Oh I know... it's just since we're talking about them I thought I'd use them as an example of why direct mainstream marketing would be more effective for a company that sells a drink vs a company that sells a product as niche as table top wargaming. I don't think wargaming companies should try to emulate music/movies/games/energy drink in the way of direct advertising. If they do direct advertising it'd probably be more aimed at parents as a way to get their kids out of the house and away from the computer

Gamers already complain about the operating costs of stores, I only imagine they'd complain even more about multi million dollar advertising campaigns.


Fair enough.

Worth remembering that high caffeine energy drinks weren't really a thing before Red Bull, mind - they took a niche product with limited appeal and through nothing to speak of except judicious application of the advertising budget turned it into a god knows how many millions global market segment, and largely retained its position as the premium brand
.
That is true, though it's still a drink and a drink is always going to have (at least potential) mainstream appeal. You put it in fridges next to Coke and Mountain Dew and the advertising kicks in. Where as I think table top wargaming is always going to be a niche because I tend to think it's only ever going to appeal to a very specific type of person. Which doesn't necessarily mean TV/magazine/etc advertising won't work, but I can definitely see the reasoning to not wanting to pursue it,

After all, GW isn't the only table top wargaming company and as far as I'm aware, none of them advertise in the same way as you see is typical of movies/music/video games/food/drink/cars/etc.


Realistically, despite the big strides many appear to have taken, none of the other bigger names (PP, Wyrd, CB etc..) have the finances to support a decent advertising campaign.

Frankly, GW likely don't, and I agree that just throwing cash at the telly people wouldn't be efficient use of cash. There's lots of other options though - I think the strongest has already been hinted at by others, which is to use license tie-ins. The chap who suggested the content code redeemable in store had a good idea, one could also piggy back on the greater finances in the video game industry and have a campaign for a game with conventional advertising and use that as a way of gaining brand awareness.

An old fashioned Saturday morning kids show could have legs too - albeit I think once that path is started down, Space Marine action figures and Golden Throne play sets could be in a much more imminent future than many of us are comfortable with!

While it is right to say that wargaming is a niche hobby, it is probably a mistake to assume it can only ever be niche. You're right that wargamers tend to be a very specific mix of science and creative which isn't all that common, but it is very easy to underestimate just how staggeringly unaware the population at large can be. I've been asked by customers "how long have you been here, I thought this was a shoe shop?" when working in a location that had been owned and operated by a cell phone retailer for over a decade. I've spent small fortunes on advertising my own business and got little or no response to it, and when analysing why, discovered situations where it was substantially easier for a customer to have been totally informed, but they still somehow contrived to miss what was right under their nose.

This leads me to believe that there are many potential gamers out there who are just completely unaware that they're interested in tabletop games, and those are the people you'd try and reach.

How is a massively complex question, but it is probably one GW should try and answer.

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