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I usually use one DC with Power Weapon, one with Power Fist, the other with Chainsword. Fist ones with bolter, other with pistol for maximum attack number.
DC without JP are useless imho, so I'd put that on everyone. However, i will magnetise the JP so they are easier to transport. I think adding a magnet to backpack too could be useful to swap JP and not-JP
My Furioso has magnetised arms too so i can hotswap them in the need.

For termies i don't know because i almost never used them

Speaking of Death company(i have only played a couple games before the new BA dex, and i am a flesh tearers player to be precise): the only time i would not give them jump packs is if i want them iin drop pods, Say Gabriel Seth, chaplain(eventually with valours edge, still have to see how it will work out, and 8 death company with Hammer,fist and rest chainswords, eventually 3 inferno pistols since i am already packing them in a drop pod. I would drop them with vanguard veterans with sanguinary priest, (8 of veterans to be precise) 5 of which have TH/SS combo, and 1 pair of lightning claws(not necessarily) while sargeant has a relic blade and storm shield(to maximize the initiative 5 from the baal strikeforce detachment i am thinking of using) and assault squad with 2 meltaguns and inferno pistol/power sword sargeant.. and drop the 2 death company/furioso dreads afterwards tl;dr I would play the BA assault elements all pods with a lot of melta or all jump packs in which case the relic jumppack is a must

Quick question: If you use the Flesh Tearers Relics from Shield of Baal: Exterminatus, are you prohibited from using Blood Angels relics or formations?

BA relics will only be prohibited in that detachment. You can take whichever formations you like. They are separate from the flesh tearers formation, even if still used as flesh tearers.

I'm also confused by the wording for Relics and Warlord Traits, so let me quote the relevant parts:

Any character with the Blood Angels Faction that can normally select from the Relics of Baal, and is part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book, can select a relic from those listed in their relevant section instead of from those listed in Codex: Blood Angels at the points cost shown.

Units chosen from the Archangels Detachment and Formations can also make use of the Relics and Warlord Traits listed below.

If your Warlord is part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book, you can choose to roll on the Warlord Traits table of the appropriate Faction in the following sections instead of those found in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules or listed in your codex.

Only units from these Detachments/Formations may pick the Relics and Traits, that is clear! So no Baal Strike Force with Archangel-Traits or Relics.

But the usage of 'can', 'can also' and 'you can choose' makes it sound as if a unit from an Exterminatus-formation/detachment may also use the Codex-Traits and Relics.
Perhaps it's because English is not my first language, but what am I missing?

Working on a list to include the Archangels Sanguine formation and a Fire Raptor:

Sanguine Formation:
Sternguard x10 - 10x Combis
Vanguards x10 - 2x Power Fists, 8x Power Weapons, 2x Storm Shields
Vanguards x10 - 2x Power Fists, 8x Power Weapons, 2x Storm Shields
Stormraven - Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

CAD:
2x Sanguinary Priests - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol
2x Tac Squads x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta
Fire Raptor Gunship
Predator - Twin-linked Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons

Leaves me with 63 pts for a 2k list. Any thoughts?

Martel732 wrote:I think librarians are still pretty valuable. Biomancy, divination, and sanguinius are all pretty useful.

What support units are going with the libbies?

Paradigm wrote:I'm going with TDA Libby or TDA Captain with TH/SS for my Archangels Detachment, and 2 Priests in HQ for my BSF Detachment at 1850, running with Pod Assualt Squads (sadly now at 9 men so the Priest can fit).

I assume then you're running termie units within the Archangels strike force? Or is it Van/Stern vets and a lone HQ deep? Can you expand on your thinking? I did consider podding assault marines as 9 man and a priest, but the mobility is too much to give up. I think if podding min squads with max special weapons is the way forward.


I'm thinking a bike Libby and bike priest in a bike squad might be useful. Perhaps go divination with plas, or biomancy with grav. Potentially a T8 librarian with iron arm is nice, with a staff he striking at S10 on the charge...

The Archangels Orbital Intervention Force looks pretty interesting. Any combination of 3 termy units who can run and shoot from deep strike might make Tac termies more viable. I wonder if you could effectively run twice with assault terminators using that formation...I also assume TDA HQs from another detachment are free to join these units and benefit from the formation special rules (?).

exsanguis wrote:
Working on a list to include the Archangels Sanguine formation and a Fire Raptor:

Sanguine Formation:
Sternguard x10 - 10x Combis
Vanguards x10 - 2x Power Fists, 8x Power Weapons, 2x Storm Shields
Vanguards x10 - 2x Power Fists, 8x Power Weapons, 2x Storm Shields
Stormraven - Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

CAD:
2x Sanguinary Priests - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol
2x Tac Squads x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta
Fire Raptor Gunship
Predator - Twin-linked Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons

Leaves me with 63 pts for a 2k list. Any thoughts?

I've been trying to use that formation to my advantage as well. Maybe my list will give you some ideas. I'll explain my reasoning as well.

Sanguine Formation:
Sternguard x10 - 10x Combis(plasma/melta)
Vanguards x10 - 1x Power Fists, 2x Storm Shields with LC (One set on Sgt), 4x Powermaul, 3x Powerswords JPs
Vanguards x10 - 1x Power Fists, 2x Storm Shields with LC (One set on Sgt), 4x Powermaul, 3x Powerswords JPs
Stormraven - Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta, Extra Armor (Never get Crew stunned)

Baal Strike Force.
1x Sanguinary Priests - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol Power Sword Veritas Vitae warlord
1x Sanguinary Priests - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol CCW
Furioso Dreadnought Melta/Heavy Flamer Droppod Beacon
10x Tacticals HF, Flamer, Sgt w/ 2x HF Droppod Beacon
5x Scouts BP/CCW Sgt Meltabomb Camo Cloaks
5x Scouts BP/CCW Sgt Meltabomb Camo Cloaks
5x ASM 2x Melta Combi-Melta Droppod Beacon

The idea behind the list is to reduce my armies weakness to flyer by having the whole army on my opponents side of the table. The droppods will guide in my VV and SGV when they jump from the stormraven on turn 2. I have the options of bringing my flamer heavy tacticals turn one with dread support, or the melta heavy ASM with dread support. Notice the 2nd half of the army gets +1I on charge and give my warlord rerolls on the warlord table.

Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.

 Fayric wrote:
Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.

That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.

Kangodo wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.

That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.

This kind of stuff makes me look forward to a revamped psyker system for 8th ed.

Kangodo wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.

That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.

You may still swap a randomly generated power for the disciplines primaris. Technically you roll once on divination -swap it for Prescience, then go on to roll on sang and swap it for Quickening.

Edit: the relevant rule explaining primaris powers are on p23 of the rule book. Psychic focus (as you refer to) is a separate rule on p22.

Kangodo wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.

That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.

You're both right. Primaris powers can always be chosen as a substitute for any rolled power but if you happen to roll all of your on the same discipline you also get the primaris for free.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.

That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.

You're both right. Primaris powers can always be chosen as a substitute for any rolled power but if you happen to roll all of your on the same discipline you also get the primaris for free.

No we are not both right, he said I cant swap powers for primaris. this is in all ways wrong.

Since we're on the subject of psychic powers, anyone have any idea if Mephiston benefits from Psychic Focus for a discipline he takes his two randomly generated powers from?

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Since we're on the subject of psychic powers, anyone have any idea if Mephiston benefits from Psychic Focus for a discipline he takes his two randomly generated powers from?

D

Yes, he can get psychic focus. I'm at my parents' place now, so I can't give you a page number, but in the psychic phase section it states that powers psykers automatically get, that are not part of a discipline, do not count for the purposes of psychic focus.

 CrownAxe wrote:
You're both right. Primaris powers can always be chosen as a substitute for any rolled power but if you happen to roll all of your on the same discipline you also get the primaris for free.

You are right, I totally read over that part.

 evildrcheese wrote:

Paradigm wrote:I'm going with TDA Libby or TDA Captain with TH/SS for my Archangels Detachment, and 2 Priests in HQ for my BSF Detachment at 1850, running with Pod Assualt Squads (sadly now at 9 men so the Priest can fit).

I assume then you're running termie units within the Archangels strike force? Or is it Van/Stern vets and a lone HQ deep? Can you expand on your thinking? I did consider podding assault marines as 9 man and a priest, but the mobility is too much to give up. I think if podding min squads with max special weapons is the way forward.

Yeah, Termies in the AA. Here's my rough 1850 list:

Archangels:

ML2 Librarian, TDA

10 Termies, 1 HF, 1 AC (combat squadded)

5 Sternguard, Pod or Rhino


Baal Strike Force:

2x Sang Priest

5x Death Co, JP

2x Tacticals, All The Flamers, Rhinos

2x Assaults, 9-men, 2x Meltas in each


Somewhere in there things may get swapped out for some SangGuard, a Dread or even Vanguard.

Not the best, but then it's not trying to be.

On page 105 there's details of Special Issue Wargear, one item is Hellfire Shells (not rounds, which the Sternguard have). Now I might be missing something but I can't find a unit that has access to these? Anyone else notice these?

They're Heavy 1, blast, Poisoned 2+.

D

Hmm, I do have one question!
One Terminator Sergeant may take the Relic-weapon from the Archangels, but does that also extend to Assault Terminators?
Their unit composition also has 4 Terminators and 1 Terminator Sergeant.

 evildrcheese wrote:
On page 105 there's details of Special Issue Wargear, one item is Hellfire Shells (not rounds, which the Sternguard have). Now I might be missing something but I can't find a unit that has access to these? Anyone else notice these?

They're Heavy 1, blast, Poisoned 2+.

D

An optional shot for Scout HBs, I believe.

it is ... actually makes the HB kinda worthwhile at a 5 point upgrade on top of the HB cost.

So it is...not bad. I'm planning on running CC Scouts, so not sure I'll ever use it. It is interesting though. Thanks for clearing that up.

D


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Paradigm wrote:I'm going with TDA Libby or TDA Captain with TH/SS for my Archangels Detachment, and 2 Priests in HQ for my BSF Detachment at 1850, running with Pod Assualt Squads (sadly now at 9 men so the Priest can fit).

I assume then you're running termie units within the Archangels strike force? Or is it Van/Stern vets and a lone HQ deep? Can you expand on your thinking? I did consider podding assault marines as 9 man and a priest, but the mobility is too much to give up. I think if podding min squads with max special weapons is the way forward.

Yeah, Termies in the AA. Here's my rough 1850 list:

Archangels:

ML2 Librarian, TDA

10 Termies, 1 HF, 1 AC (combat squadded)

5 Sternguard, Pod or Rhino


Baal Strike Force:

2x Sang Priest

5x Death Co, JP

2x Tacticals, All The Flamers, Rhinos

2x Assaults, 9-men, 2x Meltas in each


Somewhere in there things may get swapped out for some SangGuard, a Dread or even Vanguard.

Not the best, but then it's not trying to be.

Cool. I like it, not my cup of tea if I'm honest but I like the composition. Surprised to see a complete lack of power weapons/fists on the DC. Would two slightl larger squads (7 man with a few upgrades possibly serve you better?)

This new codex is really kicking me in the balls in terms of writing a list. I just can't make something I'm happy with.

D

This is a list that I think I'll be running on a tournament in January. In Sweden we're running with something called "subcomp" that tries to balance GWs not-so-great rules. That is why I'm not running three assault squads with triple meltashots

The idea is simple: the libby goes out scouting with the bikes so that I may (or may not) safely deep strike with everything. The priest drops with the full assault squad. And having the special jump pack enables a safer deep strike and the shoot snap-shot only rule when they land is boss!

Any ideas on how I might improve the list, or play the list?

Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment)
1647p (out of 1650p)

HQ

Librarian
Auspex, Bolt Pistol, Bolt Pistol, Gallian's Staff, Psyker (ML2), Space Marine bike, The Veritas Vitae

Sanguinary Priest
Auspex, Power weapon, The Angel's Wing

Elites

Death Company Squad
6x Death Company Marine, Jump Pack, Power Fist, Power axe

Dreadnought
Twin-linked autocannon, Twin-linked autocannon

Troops

Tactical Squad
Flamer, Heavy flamer, Combi-Flamer, 9x Tactical Marine
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad
Meltagun, 4x Tactical Marine
Razorback

Tactical Squad
4x Tactical Marine
Razorback

Fast Attack

Assault Squad
4x Assault Marines, 2x Meltagun, combimelta
Drop Pod

Assault Squad
9x Assault Marines, Jump Packs, 2x Meltagun, Combimelta

Scout Bike Squadron
Astartes Grenade Launcher, 2x Scout Biker, Locator Beacon

Heavy Support

Baal Predator
Heavy bolters

Predator
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Overcharged engines

trulsante wrote:
This is a list that I think I'll be running on a tournament in January. In Sweden we're running with something called "subcomp" that tries to balance GWs not-so-great rules. That is why I'm not running three assault squads with triple meltashots

The idea is simple: the libby goes out scouting with the bikes so that I may (or may not) safely deep strike with everything. The priest drops with the full assault squad. And having the special jump pack enables a safer deep strike and the shoot snap-shot only rule when they land is boss!

Any ideas on how I might improve the list, or play the list?

Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment)
1647p (out of 1650p)

HQ

Librarian
Auspex, Bolt Pistol, Bolt Pistol, Gallian's Staff, Psyker (ML2), Space Marine bike, The Veritas Vitae

Sanguinary Priest
Auspex, Power weapon, The Angel's Wing

Elites

Death Company Squad
6x Death Company Marine, Jump Pack, Power Fist, Power axe

Dreadnought
Twin-linked autocannon, Twin-linked autocannon

Troops

Tactical Squad
Flamer, Heavy flamer, Combi-Flamer, 9x Tactical Marine
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad
Meltagun, 4x Tactical Marine
Razorback

Tactical Squad
4x Tactical Marine
Razorback

Fast Attack

Assault Squad
4x Assault Marines, 2x Meltagun, combimelta
Drop Pod

Assault Squad
9x Assault Marines, Jump Packs, 2x Meltagun, Combimelta

Scout Bike Squadron
Astartes Grenade Launcher, 2x Scout Biker, Locator Beacon

Heavy Support

Baal Predator
Heavy bolters

Predator
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Overcharged engines

Using standard CAD instead of the Baal Strike Force for a reason?

Ok, so breaking from competitive builds, i feel like a captain with a jump pack, fury of baal and an infernus pistol would be a solid 10/10 on the cool a$$ gunslinger scale. Reasonably effective too.

Because I value objective secure more than I value +1 on initiative. And all missions in the tourney have maelstrom either as a primary or as a secondary objective. But I'm inclined to just go screw it - let's kill everything before they can secure objectives!

trulsante wrote:
Because I value objective secure more than I value +1 on initiative. And all missions in the tourney have maelstrom either as a primary or as a secondary objective. But I'm inclined to just go screw it - let's kill everything before they can secure objectives!

It's hard to get FNP on BA objective secured units, so I don't think they are that valuable. I'll take the +1 init and go for tablings.

Martel732 wrote:

trulsante wrote:
Because I value objective secure more than I value +1 on initiative. And all missions in the tourney have maelstrom either as a primary or as a secondary objective. But I'm inclined to just go screw it - let's kill everything before they can secure objectives!

It's hard to get FNP on BA objective secured units, so I don't think they are that valuable. I'll take the +1 init and go for tablings.

Im securely in this camp. Playing objective games yesterday i rarely missed objective secured. Just kill anything that would contest you.

Also im debating the usefulness of command squads. 155 points buys you 5 vets with jump packs, a champion, apothecary and 3 melta guns. Having to use the company champion kinda blows (though hes basically a free ws5 power weapon) but in the grand scheme of things thats not a lot of points for a mobile melta unit that is fairly strong in assault and decently durable.

I'm going to try this first. It's a hybrid of my 6th edition mech BA list with new stuff. I'll explain some of the synergy at the end.

HQ - Mephiston
HQ - librarian, level 2, jump pack
EL - Furioso, frag cannon, heavy flamer, drop pod
EL - 10 Sternguard, 4 combi-plasma, meltabomb, rhino
EL - 9 Death Company, jump packs, fist, power axe
TR - 5 Tacticals, meltagun, Lazerback
TR - 5 scouts, snipers
FA - 5 ASM, 2 meltaguns, combi-melta, drop pod
FA - 5 ASM, 2 meltaguns, combi-melta, drop pod
HV - Vindicator, over charge engines, shield
HV - Predator, side Lascannons, over charge engines
HV - Predator, side lascannons, over charge engines

Now I want the ASM to hunt vehicles and then MC's. Mephiston attaches to one of them to present a serious threat in the backfield. I'll usually drop Mephiston with ASM and the Furioso on turn one. Mephiston and the Furioso present serious threats in the backfield from the get go. To prevent the enemy from just zooming out of their deployment zone or turning around to deal with Mephiston and the Furioso, the vindicator and two predators and Sternguard will threaten them from my deployment zone. The DC and Libby will act as cleanup as they jump up the table.