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 Gangrel767 wrote:
I have played against Tau armies which use gundam toys and godzilla toys to represent riptides... not my favorite.

At least Godzilla actually looks like a Monstrous Creature

 jasper76 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
I have played against Tau armies which use gundam toys and godzilla toys to represent riptides... not my favorite.

At least Godzilla is a Monstrous Creature

Cards on the table time - The guy is a friend of mine that I have met through traveling in my area going to tournaments. He really is one of the best guys to have a game with, and really not a WAAC player as it might seem in my statement above. And honestly his whole army is very gundam themed, not only the non-GW models but the paint schemes and such on the GW models as well.

...BUT I do remember my first game against him and I said to myself "I can't believe I'm fighting ef-ing godzilla"

Median Trace wrote:
Effort and/or enthusiasm is all I require for the social contract to be fulfied by my standards. I enjoy a great looking army as much as I enjoy someone telling me all the cool things about their army.

I don't even mind if the army doesn't look great; as long as there is enthusiasm. The worst thing that can happen is when you get a game with one of those guys who just seem to hate everything about the hobby and the game; it just leaves you wondering why they even take part!

I love third party minis, use loads of them for my IG. I've used a few other ones for my Fallen Angels, and added wings to the helmet to give them a nice pre-Heresy knight look. They add loads of flavour.





As long as the weapons are WYSIWYG, I'm fine with it.

Also, you can't make Rough Riders without 3rd party minis, more or less.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
...BUT I do remember my first game against him and I said to myself "I can't believe I'm fighting ef-ing godzilla"

Tone is everything here; a sigh of disappointment or a squee of excitement completely changes what that quote means .

I remember a time when GW encouraged conversions and creativity. Behold! The most offensive conversion ever! (to the OP, unless the OP is just sad when people don't give GW monies.)

Isn't that a deodorant stick?

Glorious.

 Blacksails wrote:
Isn't that a deodorant stick?

Glorious.

It is! Plastic spoons also feature prominently. The 1st edition 40k Compendium has the article showing you how to make one of your own and rules for using it! I miss the old days.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I remember a time when GW encouraged conversions and creativity. Behold! The most offensive conversion ever! (to the OP, unless the OP is just sad when people don't give GW monies.)

WD used to have step by step instructions for stuff like that. Good ole days indeed!

He kinda has a point. though slightly. nothing is more immersion breaking then playing a game and suddenly noticing you are in the world of WW2 with Sherman fighting my rhinos.

But he is wrong in that what that is is proxies not 3rd party models and conversions.

And a great deal of 3rd party conversions and models look and match GW aesthetics considering a lot is based off of GW work. As well a lot of them are for things that GW does care about or are not making in the first place.

Though i do agree on Dream forge. the regular troopers dont look right in 40k

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
I have played against Tau armies which use gundam toys and godzilla toys to represent riptides... not my favorite.

At least Godzilla is a Monstrous Creature

Cards on the table time - The guy is a friend of mine that I have met through traveling in my area going to tournaments. He really is one of the best guys to have a game with, and really not a WAAC player as it might seem in my statement above. And honestly his whole army is very gundam themed, not only the non-GW models but the paint schemes and such on the GW models as well.

...BUT I do remember my first game against him and I said to myself "I can't believe I'm fighting ef-ing godzilla"

Would you have felt better if he was playing Tyranids?

 docdoom77 wrote:


It is! Plastic spoons also feature prominently. The 1st edition 40k Compendium has the article showing you how to make one of your own and rules for using it! I miss the old days.

Love it.

I can't really miss it, seeing as I started in '10, but it'd be nice if they did things like that again.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I remember a time when GW encouraged conversions and creativity. Behold! The most offensive conversion ever! (to the OP, unless the OP is just sad when people don't give GW monies.)

God, how did we go from that to Wood Elves being specifically required to use Citadel-brand Forests for their magic?

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Isn't that a deodorant stick?

Glorious.

It is! Plastic spoons also feature prominently. The 1st edition 40k Compendium has the article showing you how to make one of your own and rules for using it! I miss the old days.

That article does pretty much have a disclaimer that some people might find the idea of making models from junk offensive though. Right? They wanted to do an article on one of their other scratch builds, but they were too worried about it because so many of their scratch builds were rip offs of other popular sci fi brands.

I really like the paint job on that junk build though; the impression of texture on the panels, the free hand that creates the impression of panels, the painted grills, etc. My only complaint is the scale seems off compared to the marines surrounding it. I'd love it if everyone tried to get involved with the hobby to this level!

I myself had a go at scratch building an upscaled mk1 chaos rhino and a cultist vindicator using the gobsmasha hull template. I hope this doesn't offend DMB (or other posters) too much.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I remember a time when GW encouraged conversions and creativity. Behold! The most offensive conversion ever! (to the OP, unless the OP is just sad when people don't give GW monies.)

Damn GW! Encouraging gamers to buy deodorant! The fiends!

 Desubot wrote:
He kinda has a point. though slightly. nothing is more immersion breaking then playing a game and suddenly noticing you are in the world of WW2 with Sherman fighting my rhinos.

But he is wrong in that what that is is proxies not 3rd party models and conversions.

And a great deal of 3rd party conversions and models look and match GW aesthetics considering a lot is based off of GW work. As well a lot of them are for things that GW does care about or are not making in the first place.

Though i do agree on Dream forge. the regular troopers dont look right in 40k

What does look right though?

In terms of guard its pretty fluffy for there to be so many planets that all have unique customs, weapons, uniforms and vehicles yet people still find some things that dont look like guard?

If someone used American indians with guns as an army would you say it doesnt fit the theme? Because its a regiment in one of the Guard Codex I have. That same codex has a German WW2 tank with some minor conversions featured in the hobby section.

I think the problem here is that you simply dont like the look of some models. Those dream forge troopers look 40k to me, as does an american soldier, as does sherman. Not liking them is one thing, but there is no theme in the Guard for example.

Its the Guard, they use cave men to fight their wars even. They actually take the time to gather up cave men, feed and prepare them and take them to battle zones armed with nothing but clubs etc, and a sherman breaks the theme?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I remember a time when GW encouraged conversions and creativity. Behold! The most offensive conversion ever! (to the OP, unless the OP is just sad when people don't give GW monies.)

Damn GW! Encouraging gamers to buy deodorant! The fiends!

Buy it, but not USE it. Deodorant is for modeling, darn it!

 Swastakowey wrote:

I think the problem here is that you simply dont like the look of some models. Those dream forge troopers look 40k to me, as does an american soldier, as does sherman. Not liking them is one thing, but there is no theme in the Guard for example.

Its the Guard, they use cave men to fight their wars even. They actually take the time to gather up cave men, feed and prepare them and take them to battle zones armed with nothing but clubs etc, and a sherman breaks the theme?

Keep thinking because you are wrong about why i dislike em.

I dislike dream forge troopers as looks nothing like anything established in fluff. and saying fluff wise that there are many variaty is a cop out to let people use what they want.

And dont get me wrong. I have zero issues actually playing with them. and bonus points if they are painted well.

A sherman is a sherman and it looks like a sherman which we know is a sherman and it being in the year 40k certainly breaks immersion.

 Desubot wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

I think the problem here is that you simply dont like the look of some models. Those dream forge troopers look 40k to me, as does an american soldier, as does sherman. Not liking them is one thing, but there is no theme in the Guard for example.

Its the Guard, they use cave men to fight their wars even. They actually take the time to gather up cave men, feed and prepare them and take them to battle zones armed with nothing but clubs etc, and a sherman breaks the theme?

Keep thinking because you are wrong about why i dislike em.

I dislike dream forge troopers as looks nothing like anything established in fluff. and saying fluff wise that there are many variaty is a cop out to let people use what they want.

And dont get me wrong. I have zero issues actually playing with them. and bonus points if they are painted well.

A sherman is a sherman and it looks like a sherman which we know is a sherman and it being in the year 40k certainly breaks immersion.

Its not a cop out... its in all the codices... its what made the guard the guard and always has.

What about them looks nothing like in the fluff? They are humans with guns. Thats a guardsmen. In fact they dont even need to ave a gun... or be human. That is the fluff. Not some cop out.

I just get annoyed when people say that a human with a gun, or a human tank breaks immersion or ruins the fluff, when its perfectly fluffy.

GW once had a huge Tallinn armored display that used historic bits and GW bits all over the place once. Looked awesome.

On the flip side, a KV-2 with some 40k bits (cannon barrel, gubbins, some aquilas) can easily make a convincing 40k model, seeing as the Ragnarok is pretty much a modified KV-2.

Giant box turret looks cool as hell, whether its reality or sci-fi.

 Swastakowey wrote:


Its not a cop out... its in all the codices... its what made the guard the guard and always has.

What about them looks nothing like in the fluff? They are humans with guns. Thats a guardsmen. In fact they dont even need to ave a gun... or be human. That is the fluff. Not some cop out.

Its the generic sci fi armor. They are humes with guns and armor that looks right out of halo or infinity. There are aesthetic choices even in fluff and the 40k universe is dominated by gothic styles.


As to blacksails. a good conversion is another thing entirely. if you can convincingly convert something to look like it actually is part of 40k then theirs no issue. im talking about the guy that buys cheap (well relatively ) alternative models with no thought in even converting em to use them for gaming.

I've just seen this topic, and I think Charles Babbage said it best:

I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.

Closest I can come is that there's just been a sip or two too much kool-aid drunk.

I'm still quite fond of 40K and WFB fluff. One of the few aspects of GW I do still like; but not all of it, and some if what I do like diverges quite a bit from the narrow, rules-overshadowed stuff laid out in codexes. (Dan Abnett's inquisitor novels and Graham MacNeill's mechanicus novels have little of what you'd see in-game, beyond the occasional titan, leman russ, or cadian. In fact cadian kasrkin originated in Dan Abnett's Malleus, IIRC) And I'll be kerjiggered if I'm forced to spend goofy amounts of funds on GW's not-often-that-great models to use with their atrocious rules, just to dip into their vaunted IP.
That's the awful situation that too many 40K fans get themselves conditioned or indoctrinated into, IMO. That fluff and rules and models are utterly inseperable. One of the two most depressing statements I've heard from more than one GW fanboy is "I keep buying and playing 40K because I like the fluff". (Along with "I have to keep spending because I've spent too much already") You don't have to; and believe me it's very freeing when you realise that.

I have or know all the 40K fluff I need, and that's all I need from GW. I can find better, compatible rules and minis elsewhere. If that 'damages their IP', well, they'll be kerjiggered...

 Desubot wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Its not a cop out... its in all the codices... its what made the guard the guard and always has.

What about them looks nothing like in the fluff? They are humans with guns. Thats a guardsmen. In fact they dont even need to ave a gun... or be human. That is the fluff. Not some cop out.

Its the generic sci fi armor. They are humes with guns and armor that looks right out of halo or infinity. There are aesthetic choices even in fluff and the 40k universe is dominated by gothic styles.


As to blacksails. a good conversion is another thing entirely. if you can convincingly convert something to look like it actually is part of 40k then theirs no issue. im talking about the guy that buys cheap (well relatively ) alternative models with no thought in even converting em to use them for gaming.

You realise this post effectively outlines your arguments as "everything is ok as long as I say it is" right? You're saying that because someone's vision of their army differs from what you think it should, but fits your ideas, then it's ok, but if it doesn't look how you think it should, then you have a problem?

40K is engineered deliberately to leave big enough gaps to accommodate pretty much anything. Hell, even the OP constantly posts about his Space Kossacks, not really anything particularly gothic or grim dark about red faced men in furry hats.

Sure, I wouldn't really appreciate someone buying a load of 1/35 tanks and sticking them down on the table and calling them Leman Russes, but my perception from the OP it isn't as much about those sorts of people as the sorts who spend immense time, effort and expense tracking down parts and kits in order to realise their vision of an army, rather than thoughtlessly buy models off the shelf, because the OP has some sort of very specific, homogenised, sanitised visions of what he wants his 40K to be and can't handle others who may have different ideas.

gak models will always look like gak, GW or not, great models will always look awesome, GW or not.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Its not a cop out... its in all the codices... its what made the guard the guard and always has.

What about them looks nothing like in the fluff? They are humans with guns. Thats a guardsmen. In fact they dont even need to ave a gun... or be human. That is the fluff. Not some cop out.

Its the generic sci fi armor. They are humes with guns and armor that looks right out of halo or infinity. There are aesthetic choices even in fluff and the 40k universe is dominated by gothic styles.


As to blacksails. a good conversion is another thing entirely. if you can convincingly convert something to look like it actually is part of 40k then theirs no issue. im talking about the guy that buys cheap (well relatively ) alternative models with no thought in even converting em to use them for gaming.

You realise this post effectively outlines your arguments as "everything is ok as long as I say it is" right? You're saying that because someone's vision of their army differs from what you think it should, but fits your ideas, then it's ok, but if it doesn't look how you think it should, then you have a problem?

40K is engineered deliberately to leave big enough gaps to accommodate pretty much anything. Hell, even the OP constantly posts about his Space Kossacks, not really anything particularly gothic or grim dark about red faced men in furry hats.

Sure, I wouldn't really appreciate someone buying a load of 1/35 tanks and sticking them down on the table and calling them Leman Russes, but my perception from the OP it isn't as much about those sorts of people as the sorts who spend immense time, effort and expense tracking down parts and kits in order to realise their vision of an army, rather than thoughtlessly buy models off the shelf, because the OP has some sort of very specific, homogenised, sanitised visions of what he wants his 40K to be and can't handle others who may have different ideas.

gak models will always look like gak, GW or not, great models will always look awesome, GW or not.

Well Yeah im saying i partially agree with OP (oh god why) that IMO certain 3rd party models and proxy armies completely break immersion for me.
and i certainly dont have to except that your custom fluff of female space marines of the 13th secret legion. i can appreciate the time and effort that went into making and painting them but i cant help but roll my eyes at all the "reasons" it should exist.

Its also the reason i dislike dream forge troopers. they look way sci fi tastic with no real connection to the 40k fluff besides guy with guns.
Sure you could come up with a million reasons as to why they are the only ones decked out in halo armor but it doesn't mean i have to accept it.

There's definitely points on a graph here - I mean Hello Kitty Marines are not to be considered from the same viewpoint as a custom guard regiment featuring parts from half a dozen third parties in order to get the look just right!

Not to disparage anyone's Hello Kitty Marines, but even those who are fans would have to admit they make suspension of disbelief tough!

That's probably my line in the sand, I'm not a humourless person, I don't take 40K seriously in any way, but I do find something mildly offensive about "comedy" army concepts. They're like slogan T Shirts, they may be amusing on first look, but when they've been through the laundry three of four times and everyone you know has seen it, they start to lose their appeal.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Its not a cop out... its in all the codices... its what made the guard the guard and always has.

What about them looks nothing like in the fluff? They are humans with guns. Thats a guardsmen. In fact they dont even need to ave a gun... or be human. That is the fluff. Not some cop out.

Its the generic sci fi armor. They are humes with guns and armor that looks right out of halo or infinity. There are aesthetic choices even in fluff and the 40k universe is dominated by gothic styles.


As to blacksails. a good conversion is another thing entirely. if you can convincingly convert something to look like it actually is part of 40k then theirs no issue. im talking about the guy that buys cheap (well relatively ) alternative models with no thought in even converting em to use them for gaming.

You realise this post effectively outlines your arguments as "everything is ok as long as I say it is" right? You're saying that because someone's vision of their army differs from what you think it should, but fits your ideas, then it's ok, but if it doesn't look how you think it should, then you have a problem?

40K is engineered deliberately to leave big enough gaps to accommodate pretty much anything. Hell, even the OP constantly posts about his Space Kossacks, not really anything particularly gothic or grim dark about red faced men in furry hats.

Sure, I wouldn't really appreciate someone buying a load of 1/35 tanks and sticking them down on the table and calling them Leman Russes, but my perception from the OP it isn't as much about those sorts of people as the sorts who spend immense time, effort and expense tracking down parts and kits in order to realise their vision of an army, rather than thoughtlessly buy models off the shelf, because the OP has some sort of very specific, homogenised, sanitised visions of what he wants his 40K to be and can't handle others who may have different ideas.

gak models will always look like gak, GW or not, great models will always look awesome, GW or not.

I knew you followed my posts! Cheers mate!

What does red faced mean?

Also Cossacks are Eastern European... Everything is grimdark about Eastern Europe!

 Azreal13 wrote:
There's definitely points on a graph here - I mean Hello Kitty Marines are not to be considered from the same viewpoint as a custom guard regiment featuring parts from half a dozen third parties in order to get the look just right!

Not to disparage anyone's Hello Kitty Marines, but even those who are fans would have to admit they make suspension of disbelief tough!

That's probably my line in the sand, I'm not a humourless person, I don't take 40K seriously in any way, but I do find something mildly offensive about "comedy" army concepts. They're like slogan T Shirts, they may be amusing on first look, but when they've been through the laundry three of four times and everyone you know has seen it, they start to lose their appeal.

Indeed. i may defend the point but im no where near serious about 40k enough to give an actuall damn about it ( aka i wont play you because of X)

Also For all that is delicious please do not take my defending a DMB thread as me white knighting GW.

I like my alternative models and bits as much as the next guy. massive for Victoria Mad robo and anvil and all the others that pop up here.

 Desubot wrote:

Also For all that is delicious please do not take my defending a DMB thread as me white knighting GW.

Nah, we'll just call you a DMB White Knight.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Blacksails wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Also For all that is delicious please do not take my defending a DMB thread as me white knighting GW.

Nah, we'll just call you a DMB White Knight.

. My hero!!