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There is a point were it becomes too much. Like the brony who made a 3000 point sm bike army out of my little pony action figures. And preceded to never use any of his other armies ever again in favor of his special little $100 creation. But esisnkern stormtroopers? The Victoria praetorians? Dude that stuff rocks.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
There is a point were it becomes too much. Like the brony who made a 3000 point sm bike army out of my little pony action figures. And preceded to never use any of his other armies ever again in favor of his special little $100 creation. But esisnkern stormtroopers? The Victoria praetorians? Dude that stuff rocks.

Ok, I'd draw the line at My Little Pony. You couldn't pay me to play against that.

personally i use some 3rd party models if i prefer them. I think if someone is using crap looking models that are super cheap just to get an army there are 2 problems.

1. they are missing out on the aesthetic of the game
2. they are most likely a WAAC-er or similar and I wouldn't play with them anyways.


the primary reason i play warhammer is because of the models and fluff so using garbage models takes away from that. But that said there are tons of third party models that are awesome and fit perfect (they just usually are NOT cheaper)

Does a KIT Shelby Cobra look less impressive than the real deal???

If we were talking about black market copies I would agree with the OP. However, we are talking about 3rd party views of a fictional setting and game. If its clear to me what the model is compared to what GW has to offer, bring it to the game.

I used to only use GW parts and models. Then they stopped doing/sponsoring tournaments, so I really didn't have a reason not to start with third party stuff. So now I use a lot of Scibor and Raging Heroes minis/parts along with GW, but I do make sure it's very easy to identify whats what (which is the most important part IMO).

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I'm sorry but when I see Dreamforce dreadknights, colonial historical miniatures, and tier things if the like I just can't stand playing against them. I feel they don't fit the 40k aesthetic and are a cheap way into cheating what the hobby is. People spend not only time building and painting their mans, but time earning the money to buy the actual product. Those third part miniatures is kind of insulting to the people who saved for the real thing. What do you guys think?

I think this is backwards and elitist. If you want that sort of gratification join a Ferrari club.

The side of the box say for ages 16 and up. So what, you're gonna pack up your toys and cry about my converted marines? That is the most childish thing I've ever heard. Just because some people have the money to justify any exorbitant expense, doesn't mean that other people cannot engage in their own way.

I wish this was a real life conversation because I'd sit you down at the games table and whup your keister with paper tokens! But you probably wouldn't play against paper tokens would you? Too busy spreading grey poupon on your crusty rolls while running over poor people in your diamond plated canyonerro aren't you?

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
There is a point were it becomes too much. Like the brony who made a 3000 point sm bike army out of my little pony action figures. And preceded to never use any of his other armies ever again in favor of his special little $100 creation. But esisnkern stormtroopers? The Victoria praetorians? Dude that stuff rocks.

Ok, I'd draw the line at My Little Pony. You couldn't pay me to play against that.

I'm not a fan of MLP in any way, but I saw some converted MLP toys that looked like they'd be fantastic Space Marine counts-as. I'll see if I can find them again.

Ah, one quick Google Search for "space mareine" later...

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/054/8/b/space_mareine_squad_by_azurevine-d4qpbz0.jpg

Personally, being a furry or scaly or whatever they wanna call people whose Internet RP character is an anthropomorphic dragoness, my creations aren't from MLP but I know that some 40k gamers find them cringe-worthy. As a result, if you're not a fan of anthropomorphic animals, don't click the links, just move on and be glad that you'll never see them on a tabletop near you because I only play at home.

http://i.imgur.com/xPvIv7j.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vz481VT.jpg
^Sad story about this one. He's a character model based off a friend's RP character. I spent a total of over 24 hours working on him and him alone, including a 6-hour all-nighter painting session. I finally take some decent photos of the model, show them to said friend, and I get the following response: "Neat." To say I was devastated does not fully encompass the depth of the emotions involved. Over the span of 10 seconds, I went from being excited to know what he'd think of all that effort and expecting excitement and praise, to everything having gone black (no, the power didn't fail) while I felt like I never wanted to touch the hobby ever again and just as I was beginning to contemplate throwing out every one of my miniatures and never replacing them, I snapped out of it.

http://i.imgur.com/Q9cjstH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T2b27qj.png

http://i.imgur.com/sto09To.png

http://i.imgur.com/IA1TBT9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KoLusjJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tJgtvao.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hrnyni5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YC2aNaS.jpg
^has since received a less-damaged head

http://i.imgur.com/y7xQ3U2.jpg
^No, NOT a Chaos Grey Knight, just a Chapter Master in REALLY spiffy Terminator armor.

I think there's two discussions going on simultaniously here and they aren't equivalent.

My take on the OP is that he was concerned mostly about toys, or non-scifi miniatures being used a cheap proxies for a proper 40k army. I could see where that would be bothersome, especially if it was a recurring issue where the owner obviously had little or no intention of actually making something that looked appropriate to 40k.

The second (and in my mind, totally separate) discussion here is about using high-quality, thematically appropriate third party models or bits to build or augment an army for use in 40k. I don't think the two discussions are equivalent. Perhaps the OP could clarify which direction he intended the discussion to take?

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Just doesn't do it for me. It's like proxying action figures in a game. I feel that if you should play something you should support the IP.

But GW don't support the IP do they? reducing choice, focussing primarily on different Chapters of Marines with different coloured armour and desperately trying to make them different, ignoring the established fluff to do so. Spending years not bothering to make models of units in their own game and then getting all upset when someone does so.

I play with GW figures and from huge range of manufacturers - many of whom make as good or better figures than GW.

Bobthehero wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:
... a bunch of bullgak

As someone who has an army of both Kriegsmen and Scions who are 100% GW, Find a better way to express this last sentiment. Something along the lines of "I disagree" would be good, motyak

I'm not sure what was snipped, but if was either calling me stupid or ugly, rest assured you are correct. While a Kriegsman army is GW legal it would consist of FW units, and would therefore be totally awesome. Likewise OOP or ignored GW models like Tallarans and Vostroyans would make a cool and unique army. The "you" I'm referring to (out my butt or course) is someone taking a handful each of plastic Cadians and Catachans and tossing them together on the table with no regard for fluff or presentation, but turning their nose up at 3rd party conversions.
Here is a tiny percentage of regiments in the IG, an even tinier sliver of which have ever gotten models made of them...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/439536-Artwork%2C%20Imperial%20Guard%2C%20Retro%20Review.html
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/439541-Artwork%2C%20Imperial%20Guard%2C%20Retro%20Review.html
Is someone seriously going to tell me cavemen, robots and amazons are cannon, but Dreamforge armor breaks the game for you?

insaniak wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
@insaniak The OP is a troll though, this thread had no other purpose.

The OP's reasons (whatever they may be) for starting a thread have no bearing on whether or not people responding to that thread should follow the rules of the site.
If we feel that a thread is genuinely unlikely to generate reasonable discussion, we'll lock it. This one wasn't locked because it's an interesting topic of discussion... provided people stick to the actual discussion.

I have a conspiracy theory that DMB is actually Tom Kirby, and he has threatened that if if the mods even bane him he will team with Hasbro to create a 40K/My Little Pony crossover game. Please no one contradict me; I want to have my fantasy, and besides if you try to dissuade me that means YOU'RE IN ON IT TOOOOOOO!

To answer the title of the thread since I can't see what Daly is posting.

To me, If the third party models and conversions are appropriate looking and add to the visuals of the army, it's fine. If they make no sense at all in the army, not so much. That said it's a pretty subjective question and it's likely different people will have different tolerances for this.

Moderately on topic...

Someone mentioned Raging Heroes - so I had a look once I had finished work.

Now, I feel that Anvil Industry do some seriously awesome marine models, and Dreamforge Isenkern as Deathkorps troops.




But seriously... Raging Heroes... seriously???



Where on Earth where you when I bought my Dark Eldar Wytch squads? I am in love....

I wish the rules were open enough where you could model first, and identify wargear based on how you modelled...

 Gitsplitta wrote:
I think there's two discussions going on simultaniously here and they aren't equivalent.

My take on the OP is that he was concerned mostly about toys, or non-scifi miniatures being used a cheap proxies for a proper 40k army. I could see where that would be bothersome, especially if it was a recurring issue where the owner obviously had little or no intention of actually making something that looked appropriate to 40k.

The second (and in my mind, totally separate) discussion here is about using high-quality, thematically appropriate third party models or bits to build or augment an army for use in 40k. I don't think the two discussions are equivalent. Perhaps the OP could clarify which direction he intended the discussion to take?

Indeed. Worse, the OP seems to be arguing against conversion and scratchbuild as a third way.

To illustrate the point on conversion & scratchbuilding, this is one of my converted Hellhounds:

Yeah, I kept the Chimera tracks and cab, along with the Promethium drums, but the rest is pretty much pure scratchbuild, not even 3rd party bitz.

I don't think I've taken any heat over it.

And then, there's my Hydra conversion:


Never taken any flak over that model, either.

I see no reason not to convert if that's what makes people happier. It's more in the original spirit of The GW Hobby (tm) than simiply buying things and building them OOTB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Boggy Man wrote:
While a Kriegsman army is GW legal it would consist of FW units, and would therefore be totally awesome. Likewise OOP or ignored GW models like Tallarans and Vostroyans would make a cool and unique army.

My Guard is composed of Tallarn models - I have well over 100 of them that I can field. Actually, I think it's closer to 200 Tallarn models. Definitely over 150. Hmm.. I may need to check.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
There is a point were it becomes too much. Like the brony who made a 3000 point sm bike army out of my little pony action figures. And preceded to never use any of his other armies ever again in favor of his special little $100 creation. But esisnkern stormtroopers? The Victoria praetorians? Dude that stuff rocks.

I think you're referring to a bretonnia army that a user here on dakka made with pony models.

he spent more on those than he would have spent on the models needed to play the game.

He also took Best general at a GT, and none of his opponents minded at all

He hasn't used the army since.

people need to lay off him, pony up, and start understanding the magic of freindship.
No pony is perfect, but his army was funny, and he's a good guy.
Thanks
Austin

how's this?

http://i.imgur.com/2A7Vido.jpg

 docdoom77 wrote:
I think what you buy is up to you and you can do whatever you please, but you might have more fun if you stepped off that high horse and let other people have their fun too.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using 3rd party materials. I love the variety it brings to the table.

In the end, it's your choice, but it's definitely not the one I would make.

It's silly to argue that someone else's miniatures somehow devalue yours on the tabletop.

I agree and disagree. I think 3rd party parts or single models here and there add to the visual experience.

However! I do get upset by chronic proxy players. I took the time to buy (and usually paint) the official model or a close 3rd party equivalent. When you constantly use DE skimmers turned onto there end as drop pods or someone's borrowed model(s) I start to get a bit peeved.

Somewhere a line does have to be drawn between paper cutouts and 100% GW/FW elitism. And as someone who does try to field mostly painted models it does make me frown when it is obvious you have no intent on even attempting to paint your army.

I know I am a bit of a snob but but I am okay with that because I suck at the actual game.

 SickSix wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I think what you buy is up to you and you can do whatever you please, but you might have more fun if you stepped off that high horse and let other people have their fun too.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using 3rd party materials. I love the variety it brings to the table.

In the end, it's your choice, but it's definitely not the one I would make.

It's silly to argue that someone else's miniatures somehow devalue yours on the tabletop.

I agree and disagree. I think 3rd party parts or single models here and there add to the visual experience.

However! I do get upset by chronic proxy players. I took the time to buy (and usually paint) the official model or a close 3rd party equivalent. When you constantly use DE skimmers turned onto there end as drop pods or someone's borrowed model(s) I start to get a bit peeved.

Somewhere a line does have to be drawn between paper cutouts and 100% GW/FW elitism. And as someone who does try to field mostly painted models it does make me frown when it is obvious you have no intent on even attempting to paint your army.

I know I am a bit of a snob but but I am okay with that because I suck at the actual game.

I have a much bigger grief with people who don't paint or even assemble their models.

I use plenty of 3rd party models and proxies, but they're always painted and fully assembled.

I've got no problem at all with conversions and substitutions. Just so long as they are done with some thought, care and effort.

 Boggy Man wrote:
While a Kriegsman army is GW legal it would consist of FW units, and would therefore be totally awesome. Likewise OOP or ignored GW models like Tallarans and Vostroyans would make a cool and unique army.

I've got 110 vostroyans. Including 4 las cannon teams, 4 autocannon teams, 9 flamers(melta) and 6 plasma gunners myself.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

And then, there's my Hydra conversion:


Never taken any flak over that model, either.

I see no reason not to convert if that's what makes people happier. It's more in the original spirit of The GW Hobby (tm) than simiply buying things and building them OOTB.

http://instantrimshot.com/

I keep telling you guys, I just hate painting. I love kitbashing and some light converting, but I really, really loathe painting. No excuses about not having enough time, or not being good enough to do an okay job, or not having enough space. I just have a deficit of fun when I paint.

Orktavius wrote:
in fairness, space marine backpacks are not combat packs full of storage....they are mini-nuclear reactors designed to power that hulking suit of power armor Just throwing that out there in defense of the classic marine backpack (though the conversions sounds quite cool so keep it up)

Aye, I hear you. When I first collected I actually built and painted 1500pts of blood angels without altering a single model. I guess I just got tired of looking at those packs and 80's-esque shoulder pads! Had to do something different the second time around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EVIL INC wrote:

I remember going to the grand opening in fairfax va. They pulled my models because I had used non-gw paints on them. As a youth, I was highly hurt. Likely the start of when I started to dislike them as a company.

JC Almighty that's a whole new level of ridiculousness! How could they even tell?

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:

I remember going to the grand opening in fairfax va. They pulled my models because I had used non-gw paints on them. As a youth, I was highly hurt. Likely the start of when I started to dislike them as a company.

JC Almighty that's a whole new level of ridiculousness! How could they even tell?

The only way that would have happened is if he encountered a particularly over-zealous staff member, in which case it would have been quickly resolved by talking to the manager. GW have never had a policy about only using their paint.

Reading this thread makes me want to go and build a Raven Guard battle company with these marines riding into battle in these rhinos.

Conversion are an integral part of the hobby and the hobby is in no way 'GW games'. If an army looks good it looks good. If it has godzilla or optimus prime standing in for nids and knights then that is an entirely separate issue. Using dreamforge leviathans as knights is not just acceptable to me it's better. They are superbly detailed kits with mind boggling customization to them that you just don't see on GW kits


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:
The only way that would have happened is if he encountered a particularly over-zealous staff member, in which case it would have been quickly resolved by talking to the manager. GW have never had a policy about only using their paint.

Funnily enough after a friend and I blew some minds when we entered a local GWs monthly painting comp with stuff that was clearly not painted with GW paints the next comp had the 'must be painted with GW paints' rule quietly added to the description. Still haven't actually heard back about if that's enforced or not...

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I'm sorry but when I see Dreamforce dreadknights, colonial historical miniatures, and tier things if the like I just can't stand playing against them. I feel they don't fit the 40k aesthetic and are a cheap way into cheating what the hobby is. People spend not only time building and painting their mans, but time earning the money to buy the actual product. Those third part miniatures is kind of insulting to the people who saved for the real thing. What do you guys think?

I completely agree with you. People acting like it's their army and can model it as they wish is just completely against the spirit of games workshop.

edit: and am i the only one that thought the my little pony conversions looked pretty cool?

 Pouncey wrote:
I keep telling you guys, I just hate painting. I love kitbashing and some light converting, but I really, really loathe painting. No excuses about not having enough time, or not being good enough to do an okay job, or not having enough space. I just have a deficit of fun when I paint.

Understandable, its not for everyone. Some people love wargaming but hate painting. My recommendation is coloured primers and dipping. They allow you to make something look passable with far less effort than normally needed.

 Wulfmar wrote:
Moderately on topic...

Someone mentioned Raging Heroes - so I had a look once I had finished work.

Now, I feel that Anvil Industry do some seriously awesome marine models, and Dreamforge Isenkern as Deathkorps troops.




But seriously... Raging Heroes... seriously???

Spoiler:

Where on Earth where you when I bought my Dark Eldar Wytch squads? I am in love....

I know, right? The RH Dark Elves almost make me want to start playing Fantasy, just so I can field an army of them. Of course, I don't make anywhere near enough money to have that kind of disposable income over the next decade, but a guy can dream, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
how's this?

http://i.imgur.com/2A7Vido.jpg

Looks like the 4th Company of the Ultrasmurfs doing a Steel Rain deployment. Totally legit.

 insaniak wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:

I remember going to the grand opening in fairfax va. They pulled my models because I had used non-gw paints on them. As a youth, I was highly hurt. Likely the start of when I started to dislike them as a company.

JC Almighty that's a whole new level of ridiculousness! How could they even tell?

The only way that would have happened is if he encountered a particularly over-zealous staff member, in which case it would have been quickly resolved by talking to the manager. GW have never had a policy about only using their paint.

Unless you were using those paints in the store itself in which case it was the right thing to do because it causes issues regarding their insurance coverage. They KNOW their stuff is safe and approved under their policy....3rd party paints not so much. Otherwise....yeah....overzealous employee as no GW staffer REALLY gives a crap who's paint you used on your model. (unless it looks hideous and they want to give you advice on how to fix that....IE stop using toll paints timmy)

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I'm sorry but when I see Dreamforce dreadknights, colonial historical miniatures, and tier things if the like I just can't stand playing against them. I feel they don't fit the 40k aesthetic and are a cheap way into cheating what the hobby is. People spend not only time building and painting their mans, but time earning the money to buy the actual product. Those third part miniatures is kind of insulting to the people who saved for the real thing. What do you guys think?

I completely agree with you. People acting like it's their army and can model it as they wish is just completely against the spirit of games workshop.

edit: and am i the only one that thought the my little pony conversions looked pretty cool?

I wouldn't have chosen the army myself. But yeah I thought it was a well painted and modeled army that pulled of the concept well. I wouldn't want to play every game against it but I would be happy to play against it. I have no problem if someone wants to play only with 40k stuff or Only painted stuff or even refuses to play agaisnt unpainted/non 40k stuff as long as they dont try to enforce there personal standards of enjoyment upon others and don't pretend like they are superior due to how they play the hobby or act like someone is being a dick or insulting to them by not playing the same way they do.

I have genuinely heard things such as

"If someone pays less for their army than you then they have made you look like a fool and it shouldn't be allowed"

"People shouldn't be allowed to play with x and y"

"If someone doesn't buy the official product they are insulting everyone that does."

and so on. When you say stuff like that take a good hard look at the image you are portraying, if how someone wants to play a game doesn't mesh with how you want to just don't play against them. Then it doesn't affect you at all. Its just a game/hobby after all and your way isn't the only way to take part in it.