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2014/12/13 07:19:32
Subject: Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
Given this is 40k is there really anything that is truly out of place on the table as far as conversions go ?
Conversions show the games community is enthusiastic enough about the game to want to innovate. It would get kind of stale to always see the same thing on the table constantly.
Ive seen people do mauler-fiend conversions with Cryx Colossals, coke-cans converted to drop pods that actually look like drop pods and recently orkanauts and stompa's made out of transformers, gundam kits, mr potatoheads, old school tv monitors and computer monitors, plastic bowls and tanks built around ROLLER SKATES that all fit the aesthetic.
Also GW breaks their own aesthetic at times. Like in the case of Ork units which all seem to have the same design (it though lore wise it says no two ork war-engines look the same).
Also there are some units you have make a conversion for as the model for it is not sold like in the case of the Battle-Fortress, Skull-Hammer, Kustom Stompas and the super heavy Ork Bommers.
And then there are units that have nice rules, but people don't like the way they look. Seen a lot of dream-forge converted Dread-Knight's because people don't agree with the way the normal dread-knight looks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/13 08:12:29
2014/12/13 08:32:31
Subject: Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
No problem with any other firms miniatures. I only use GW myself more out of laziness but I actually like to see different brands on the table. Shows effort I think.
Also have no objection to someone using paper to try out new models or if they can't afford an army and want to try it out I have no objection to using a completely surrogate army.
It's only a game!
EAT - SLEEP - FARM - REPEAT
2014/12/13 09:07:46
Subject: Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
I remember going to the grand opening in fairfax va. They pulled my models because I had used non-gw paints on them. As a youth, I was highly hurt. Likely the start of when I started to dislike them as a company.
JC Almighty that's a whole new level of ridiculousness! How could they even tell?
The only way that would have happened is if he encountered a particularly over-zealous staff member, in which case it would have been quickly resolved by talking to the manager. GW have never had a policy about only using their paint
.
Unless you were using those paints in the store itself in which case it was the right thing to do because it causes issues regarding their insurance coverage. They KNOW their stuff is safe and approved under their policy....3rd party paints not so much. Otherwise....yeah....overzealous employee as no GW staffer REALLY gives a crap who's paint you used on your model. (unless it looks hideous and they want to give you advice on how to fix that....IE stop using toll paints timmy)
Lol. Yeah, we used to tell customers who hadn't bought their stuff from us we couldn't handle their items all the time because we weren't insured in case we broke it.
Wasn't true then, isn't now.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
As long as the item is an accurate representation of the desired unit/vehicle and the unit can blend/justified in the 40k universe, I am not too concerned with 3rd party choices.
I would enjoy attempting to make a hover-tank out of a bottle, but these days the designs of body-wash bottles don't appear to be as suitable, I'll have to recon some more shops.
2014/12/13 11:44:01
Subject: Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
I have always felt that one of the few genuine advantages of 40K over other games was that the size of the background and the large playerbase made it possible for people to invent and use all kinds of unofficial stuff, including comedy units like the Pony army and the Hello Kitty Marines.
So...the entire Milky Way galaxy is your backdrop with a billion, billion worlds with all sorts of civilizations and crazy stuff...and you have a problem with people using different miniatures.
Edited by insaniak. Please see Dakka's rule #1
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/13 12:45:07
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points)
2014/12/13 15:11:36
Subject: Re:Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
jonolikespie wrote: Reading this thread makes me want to go and build a Raven Guard battle company with these marines riding into battle in these rhinos.
Both of which look stunning I will add. At the risk of going off topic, would you mind telling me who produces those marines, or are they kitbashed?
I let the dogs out
2014/12/13 15:14:37
Subject: Re:Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
jonolikespie wrote: Reading this thread makes me want to go and build a Raven Guard battle company with these marines riding into battle in these rhinos.
Both of which look stunning I will add. At the risk of going off topic, would you mind telling me who produces those marines, or are they kitbashed?
Anvil Industries.
I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a
2014/12/13 16:54:44
Subject: Re:Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
jonolikespie wrote: Reading this thread makes me want to go and build a Raven Guard battle company with these marines riding into battle in these rhinos.
Both of which look stunning I will add. At the risk of going off topic, would you mind telling me who produces those marines, or are they kitbashed?
Rhino seems a bit plain to me, but wow, those marines!
Edit: AND ofcourse they're in the UK :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/13 16:55:22
To the last handful of posts, and in the spirit of 'GW tanks are slightly modified RL tanks': The 'marines' are Anvil, but the 'rhino' looks like an M113.
On that note, I've been thinking of revamping my Epic armies lately. Second-hand, metal, mark III rhinos from the Epic: Armageddon release can still be got sometimes, but with nothing like the regularity and cheap prices of plastic mark I rhinos from earlier iterations of the game. Problem is I like the mkIII much more than the mkI, which I'm not very fond of at all. I was thinking of getting 6mm M113s and modding them a little, but then I saw the Onslaught Miniatures Juno. Now, TBH, I sometimes have just a little trouble completely accepting different proxy designs that aren't OFFISHUL STC-APPROVED, and there's something a bit Taurus-ish about the four tracks, but it took me a couple of seconds to fall in love with them. I'd consider these better than GW's mkIII design, and I'm even debating selling the OOP mkIII rhino-chassis vehicles I have to pay for 'em. Further fluff justification? A roving chapter loses many rhinos to scrapcode before happening upon a long-lost forgeworld with newly rediscovered, superior, pre-Mars-approved STC designs. Job's a good 'un.
If that is actually, somehow, some kind of blow to poor defenceless likkle GW (aw bless) and their IP, it's their own fault. Even if I was talking about in-production 40K models, same thing.
Seriously, why people keep reponding to the post of this user, looks like poeple need more time in the internet to learn and indentify trolls, even i, as a purist (each modelo to his gamesystem where it belongs) i find annoying this post, stop feeding the troll please
2014/12/13 18:17:07
Subject: Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
Assuming it is one, the only way a troll post works is if people actually post the expected responses, like yours, or start falling out with each other.
Ignoring a post or taking it at face value and actually discussing the points raised maturely are equally valid ways of dealing with it, because neither will get the troll the result he desires.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
jreilly89 wrote: . Pleases don't post if you're not interested in contributing to the actual topic.
Once again.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2014/12/13 18:47:38
Subject: Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
I think as long as they fit the universe (no medieval knights 40k game), I am completely okay with third party and conversions. I've seen some that are WAY cooler than the original models
I have no issues with 3rd party or conversions myself. It's actually nice to see something someone has obviously put a bit of effort to making across the table.
jreilly89 wrote: I think as long as they fit the universe (no medieval knights 40k game), I am completely okay with third party and conversions. I've seen some that are WAY cooler than the original models
This can still fit in in some cases with Space Marines and Imperial Guard. Should at least have a little work done to them, but still a valid theme within the setting since the worlds have different levels of technology anyway.
n0t_u wrote: I have no issues with 3rd party or conversions myself. It's actually nice to see something someone has obviously put a bit of effort to making across the table.
jreilly89 wrote: I think as long as they fit the universe (no medieval knights 40k game), I am completely okay with third party and conversions. I've seen some that are WAY cooler than the original models
This can still fit in in some cases with Space Marines and Imperial Guard. Should at least have a little work done to them, but still a valid theme within the setting since the worlds have different levels of technology anyway.
Cultists cuz they have little access to better weapons, but even Imperial Guard get Lasguns.
n0t_u wrote: I have no issues with 3rd party or conversions myself. It's actually nice to see something someone has obviously put a bit of effort to making across the table.
jreilly89 wrote: I think as long as they fit the universe (no medieval knights 40k game), I am completely okay with third party and conversions. I've seen some that are WAY cooler than the original models
This can still fit in in some cases with Space Marines and Imperial Guard. Should at least have a little work done to them, but still a valid theme within the setting since the worlds have different levels of technology anyway.
Cultists cuz they have little access to better weapons, but even Imperial Guard get Lasguns.
A μ-class or feudal world is a classification of world existing in a technologically medieval state. The most advanced such worlds possess black powder weaponry. The tithes from these planets are slightly more than those of Feral Worlds (generally from Solutio Prima to Solutio Extremis), thanks to the development of agriculture. A feudal world typically has a population of 10,000,000 to 500,000,000 people.
Not everyone has technology good enough for lasguns, a PDF for a feudal world would probably use muskets. They'd probably be given lasguns once they became part of the guard probably, but it's not unheard of for imperial forces to have crossbows and such.
n0t_u wrote: I have no issues with 3rd party or conversions myself. It's actually nice to see something someone has obviously put a bit of effort to making across the table.
jreilly89 wrote: I think as long as they fit the universe (no medieval knights 40k game), I am completely okay with third party and conversions. I've seen some that are WAY cooler than the original models
This can still fit in in some cases with Space Marines and Imperial Guard. Should at least have a little work done to them, but still a valid theme within the setting since the worlds have different levels of technology anyway.
Cultists cuz they have little access to better weapons, but even Imperial Guard get Lasguns.
A μ-class or feudal world is a classification of world existing in a technologically medieval state. The most advanced such worlds possess black powder weaponry. The tithes from these planets are slightly more than those of Feral Worlds (generally from Solutio Prima to Solutio Extremis), thanks to the development of agriculture. A feudal world typically has a population of 10,000,000 to 500,000,000 people.
Not everyone has technology good enough for lasguns, a PDF for a feudal world would probably use muskets. They'd probably be given lasguns once they became part of the guard probably, but it's not unheard of for imperial forces to have crossbows and such.
I suppose its because I think of the IG more in terms of their miniatures than the lore, but the idea of a Leman Russ rolling around with a squad of crossbow guardsmen kind of makes my brain itch. From a lore perspective, I get the feudal world, but its just like "Why? Why would I play this when I can have a damn boltgun?"
n0t_u wrote: I have no issues with 3rd party or conversions myself. It's actually nice to see something someone has obviously put a bit of effort to making across the table.
jreilly89 wrote: I think as long as they fit the universe (no medieval knights 40k game), I am completely okay with third party and conversions. I've seen some that are WAY cooler than the original models
This can still fit in in some cases with Space Marines and Imperial Guard. Should at least have a little work done to them, but still a valid theme within the setting since the worlds have different levels of technology anyway.
Cultists cuz they have little access to better weapons, but even Imperial Guard get Lasguns.
A μ-class or feudal world is a classification of world existing in a technologically medieval state. The most advanced such worlds possess black powder weaponry. The tithes from these planets are slightly more than those of Feral Worlds (generally from Solutio Prima to Solutio Extremis), thanks to the development of agriculture. A feudal world typically has a population of 10,000,000 to 500,000,000 people.
Not everyone has technology good enough for lasguns, a PDF for a feudal world would probably use muskets. They'd probably be given lasguns once they became part of the guard probably, but it's not unheard of for imperial forces to have crossbows and such.
I suppose its because I think of the IG more in terms of their miniatures than the lore, but the idea of a Leman Russ rolling around with a squad of crossbow guardsmen kind of makes my brain itch. From a lore perspective, I get the feudal world, but its just like "Why? Why would I play this when I can have a damn boltgun?"
They'd probably make a Leman Russ like the steam tank if they wanted to put effort into it. But it's about wanting a theme because you like it.
If the mods and paint are done well and everything fits the theme then all is good. How else was I going to get my Warscythe wielding Fembot Necron Overlord?
Worth mentioning is the "dad rule". Dads are allowed to have one jacked up unit as long as it was 100% done by their kids.
Paradigm for a happy relationship with Games Workshop: Burn the books and take the models to a different game.
2014/12/14 11:16:43
Subject: Re:Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
jreilly89 wrote: the idea of a Leman Russ rolling around with a squad of crossbow guardsmen kind of makes my brain itch. From a lore perspective, I get the feudal world, but its just like "Why? Why would I play this when I can have a damn boltgun?"
From what I gathered, the worlds in question that use crossbows wouldn't be in possession of anything like a main battle tank either. Feudal worlds and their lack of tech aside, I find the lost / almost lost / declining technological knowledge of the imperium theme to be totally unbelievable though. e.g. Ability to manufacture the Vanquisher Cannon is almost forgotten, that was always one that made me laugh. "Can we redesign this by lengthening a regular battle cannon." "No sir that would be impossible."
I let the dogs out
2014/03/15 09:13:17
Subject: Re:Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
"Can't we redesign this by lengthening the cannon - "
"You would tinker with the Omnissiah's sacred designs?"
"No, I just meant - "
"Lexmechanic Threllix! Fetch my servitor-creating axe!"
I actually quite like the idea of feudal/feral worlders given very specialized training and then dumped on a battlefield. They might be wearing plate armor and be wielding crude swords, they might not know how to speak Low Gothic coherently or what a voidship really is, but they know they serve the Emperor and after a few crash courses, they know how to use the Lee-Man Rhuss to make things explode.
2014/12/14 13:28:41
Subject: Re:Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
I actually quite like the idea of feudal/feral worlders given very specialized training and then dumped on a battlefield
Also an afterthought: I suppose there's nothing to say that they couldn't be very effective suped-up crossbows. Anyone who doubts that possibility hasn't been on the receiving end of a wookie bowcaster. Or Rambo for that matter.
I let the dogs out
2014/12/14 13:35:56
Subject: Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
Frankenberry wrote:So...the entire Milky Way galaxy is your backdrop with a billion, billion worlds with all sorts of civilizations and crazy stuff...and you have a problem with people using different miniatures.
Hell, the galaxy apparently isn't even big enough to fit Tau in, people reject them even though they're a fully-supported miniature range from GW and have been in the game for well over a decade literally just because they don't have spikes and skulls on the models. You really expect people like that to accept anything that isn't "offishul"?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/14 14:09:21
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
2014/12/14 14:35:32
Subject: Re:Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
Conversions must look like what they are meant to be, and they must look cool. Those are the only two rules that should matter when it comes to non-GW miniatures to play 40k. And those "used" to be rules that GW supported in places like White Dwarf.
Hell, the galaxy apparently isn't even big enough to fit Tau in, people reject them even though they're a fully-supported miniature range from GW and have been in the game for well over a decade literally just because they don't have spikes and skulls on the models. You really expect people like that to accept anything that isn't "offishul"?
The absolute truth. I was around when Tau were released. People went nuts about them not fitting in, when they are not any esthetically different than Eldar when it comes to " Grimdark".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/14 14:40:02
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2014/12/14 15:43:00
Subject: Anyone else feel that third party models and conversions take away from the game?
Above post is correct, I remember it quite clearly.
I like how the tau look myself, but not there codex fluff, now the novels and audio books that have covered them, and to a lesser extent dawn of war, that I like.
Not good guys in the modern sense, but in 40k, bloody hippies in comparison.
On topic, despite ot being a troll, he has raised a fair point, if that breaks his ssuspension of disbelief, fine, shouldn't try to impose the view on others, heavily converted armies look Damn good when done right
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