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I recently decided that I'd like to take a break from 40k and try something new. So after a few agonizing hours of pondering whether to start up Warmahordes, or WHFB, I've decided to go with fantasy, and picked out Skaven to be my army. They look cool, and they're totally different from the play styles of my 40k armies (Chaos and Necrons). Now that I've decided that much, and decided on my first two purchases in that direction (Island of Blood box set and a codex) I've got a few questions.

First, what are the "average" games played at? In 40k, a 1.5-2k force is the usual, so you generally need another 500 pts of units beyond that to be able to "mix it up" a bit and avoid running the exact same army every game. I'd like to know how big I need to go.

Second, what are some good picks for units? Doomwheels look cool, as does the Screaming Bell.

Lastly, what are you supposed to use for slaves? They don't have their own models (from what I can tell), so I'd like to know the "correct" model choice for that.

Thanks in advance all

WHFB is played at slightly larger points totals than 40k, 1500-2500 is the norm.

I don't know Skaven well off the top of my head but internal balance in most WHFB books is pretty good; most of the stuff in your book works or can be made to work. I do know that most of your Core units have similar functions (quantity over quality), Jezails are a worthwhile purchase if you're going to be fighting any armoured units, and Doomwheels are your impulse/shock unit that fills the role heavy cavalry do in most armies.

As to slaves if I'm reading this correctly you should be fine just using Clanrat models if you differentiate your units (paint the slaves' heads blue or something)

In the Clanrat box, there's 10 models with armour on, and ten with no armour that look more slavey (there's one with manacles on its ankles, ones with whip scars etc) so you can use those as slaves.

Do wheels are pretty good I think, quite random and fun. The Bell isn't an optimal choice but that doesn't mean it's terrible or you shouldn't take it, you can still make it work.

The kind of 'netlist' for the rats from what I've seen is lots and lots of slaves, and the rare choice is usually a Doomwheel, a Hell Pit Abom, and 2 Warp Lightning Cannons.

I absolutely love the Stormvermin models, they're my favourite core kit GW make, so if I go Skaven I'm having lots of Stormvermin. And I think I'm going to avoid the mass slaves thing because that's too many models for me haha.

Just a note, none of this is based on any actual experience, but I'm considering Skaven too and this is what I've picked up so far from my research.

Most importantly, everyone I've spoken to has told me how much fun Skaven are to play!

Thanks for the replies guys. Now I'm just waitin for my stuff to arrive in the mail

Hoooooold up!!! I have 6000-6500 points of skaven so I can give you some pointers here.

First I'd like to point out its army books in fantasy no codex's here haha

Anyways basically it depends on your area what points levels you play. With my friends at home I play 2k or 2.5k (2.5k at the flgs)
Basic things you want:

Slaves - units of 40-50 with a 5 wide formation is a great tarpit unit (the best in the game arguably)

Clanrats - usually 25-30 as a bunker unit to hold onto your chieftain battle standard bearer and grey seer (if you have him on foot) equipt with hand weapon and shield everyday all day

Stormvermin - run these about 40 with a storm banner or razor banner and that's a pretty elite type choice for skaven (its not strong tho compared to other armies tougher choices but they are only 7 points each tho)

Plague monks - no armour but running then 35-40 with a plague banner is an awesome unit

Jezzails - not recommended at all they don't hit very often (and the $ of models is outrageous so just model some up with kroot arms on clanrats)

Censer bearers - situational unit but some people like them but they are pricey points wise for what they do

Globadiers - again situational and pricey

Gutter runners - units of 5-9 with slings and poisoned attacks are almost a must take as war machine hunters

Rat ogres - people harp on these a lot but they really aren't that bad. They are a little expensive and have no save but they are unable. If you aren't playing competitive then you'll be fine with running a unit of 6+ and you can boost them up with Skweel but the problem is he only gives them a regen save sometimes (depending what you roll)

Warp lightning cannon - these are excellent for the points cost (best for the points in the game some say) I'd buy 1 to start then get 2

Doomwheel - awesome unit and very fun pick one up for sure

Hellpit abomination - this thing is a beast, its such a good monster just watch out for flaming attacks (he won't get his 4+ regent against those) he has a chance to get back up when he has random movement, random attacks he's great

Screaming bell - some people like them some people don't. I'm not a huge fan but they can be fun its not the best or most competitive option tho

Plague furnace - fun unit cheaper than the screaming bell and is much more offensive. It lacks a save tho (only has magic resistance 2) so watch out for cannons. Gets pushed by 35-40 monks with the plague banner its a scary unit

Warlords - cheap and effective generals I usually equipt them with armour of destiny and a halberd on a war litter and plop him in a unit of stormvermin, pretty cheap and effective

Chieftain - he will be your battle standard bearer, give him a talisman of preservation (or a 5+ ward if you give the seer the talisman of preservation) and halberd and put him in your bunker unit

Grey seer - usually give him the talisman of preservation and some magic items. Common ones include skalm, power scroll, earthing rod etc

Assassins - pretty expensive but you can give one the potion of strength and weeping blade for a nice little punch in your army

Warlock engineers - good cheap wizards. Most common is one without a wizard level and give him a doomrocket...that's the scariest 45 points you can spend (unless you blow yourself up or miss lol)

Plague priests - these are nice and give you access to the plague lore. I usually only take one to get access to the furnace but when I do give him a flail and a 5+ ward save

Vermin lord - over priced. Still fun sometimes I've used him a few times now

Special characters - meh usually all over priced. Queek is okay if you want to run some stronger stormvermin.

Weapon teams - only worth while ones are the warpfire thrower and the mortar but are super expensive. Some people like the rattling gun (it misfires the least the others misfire like crazy and can be bad lol)

Giant rats - best chaff unit in the game. A chaff unit is a redirect unit, a unit that blocks charges etc. For 23 points you normally want to run 2-4 of them per list depending on the points level. Use the giant rats included with the plague monks, doomwheels, and hellpit (I haven't bought any giant rats I've collected them from the other skaven kits I bought and have about 75 of them?)

I think that cover most of the units in the book (I might be missing something???)
Skaven are a great army and super fun to play. They are going to misfire and blow themselves up a lot. Run away and blow up (slaves) don't be afraid to sacrifice units. Everything in the skaven army is expendable haha

If you have any other questions just let me know I can help you as best as I can. Always glad to help someone who wants to join the verminous hordes

You have chosen well
If you don't mind the work involved you can separate armored rats vs unarmored for slaves.
I've never heard of anyone complain about the appearance as long as the units are easily distinguished and pointed out at the start.
Most play 2000-2500. With 2500 being the common. Because people like a few more toys. 2000 plays well. 1500 works well but some armies are handicapped more as the points get lower. Beauty of fantasy is it still plays well at anywhere from 1500 all the way to 3000.
Island of blood is always great and you can often trade the elves. Or sell them.
Most skaven items have a heavy random element but are a bit more powerful than the norm because of it.
Doom wheels are great. They movie 3d6 inches. Each turn the shoot 3 bolts of lightning at the closest model, friend or foe causing d6 wounds.
Warp lightning cannons and the hell pit abomination are great, though well hated.
Screaming bell has benefits and is fun but not the most competitive unit if that is your main goal.
All in all skaven are a great army, just remember one thing...
Skaven die, often in droves. Expect them to die for your win.

Great replies guys. I have a lot to think about for my next purchases. I ordered a battalion, a box of clanrats, a grey seer, and a doomwheel, in addition to the Island of Blood. Now to get that all built up!

Good luck with the raw numbers of paintjob *evil laugh*

 Lone Tower wrote:
Good luck with the raw numbers of paintjob *evil laugh*

A good trick for painting the verminous ones without going completely catatonic, is to get a hold of something the size of the GW Tank Brush. (just don't pay the frankly ridiculous GW priced one though!)
If you don't have anything like a spray gun/airbrush type thingy, then the big brush will save you loads of time! Just paint the entire freaking model brown, pick out the basic details, apply wash, and done!
With Fantasy, and especially with a true horde army, the only models you really want to spend the extra time on detailing are the front 2 ranks. The rest tend to simply blend together.

Also a fun thing to keep in mind: 13 is the sacred number of the Horned Rat!
If you want to be a little extra fluffy, it's always fun to build your units to 26 or 39 strong, and it might even bring you a little extra luck during a game too!


Oh, and never forget:
1. It's not "retreating" but rather it's simply "charging in the opposite direction."
2. It's not a "disastrous misfire," rather, it's simply a "catastrophic success!"
3. When all else fails, send more slaves!

Don't get Skaven, get me pictures of Spider-Man!

cheifbigredman has given you the best advice on the units but its up to you how you want to play them as their fluff means you can field a shooty, combat, monster, horde army.

as for painting it depends on your techniques and your motivation it really doesn't take to long i usually paint in batches of five so i get a rank done at a time

i myself play a horde you can see it at my shameless blog plug
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/402096.page

There's a lot of good info that's been posted here. Thanks a bunch guys, and I'll check out your P&M blog, as well, kencotter. I'm always up for looking at others work-in-progress, or finished, models, especially if they're armies I'm interested in