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Kangodo wrote:
Didn't Kranon have actual rules?

Build-a-bear rules. It told you which wargear options he took from the Crimson Slaughter supplement... An approach I actually like and wish was more common as it allows you to build custom characters with elements of a unique character. More variety in theory.

I wonder how this RC-Formation will work out.

With making it a Formation it seems like we might no longer need an Overlord to unlock the Royal Court.

Royal Court was almost a formation anyway: Non FOC models who don't need to stick together. With any luck this will make them a little more flexible without stripping their current utility.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
As always the ups pricing make me wonder if i should continue this hobby or go chinese... Guess chinese for now...

Well, the codex is printed in China, so...

changemod wrote:
Build-a-bear rules. It told you which wargear options he took from the Crimson Slaughter supplement... An approach I actually like and wish was more common as it allows you to build custom characters with elements of a unique character. More variety in theory.

So like the HQ's from the Campaigns?

Royal Court was almost a formation anyway: Non FOC models who don't need to stick together. With any luck this will make them a little more flexible without stripping their current utility.

The big questions remain:
-Do we need to unlock it? That would be unique for a Formation.
-Are we keeping the Lords? Because I can see Crypteks becoming an HQ-choice, but have a hard time imagining it for Lords.
Unless we get Lords that upgrade to an Overlord, like the Brother-Captain from Grey Knights.
-What are the bonuses and requirements?
Keeping it as a 0-5 of both seems nice, but then I wonder why we'd ever take them as a regular slot (except for lame tournaments that ban Formations)

You know, I've imagined so many ways how they would handle the Royal Court.
And I have to say that I did not expect this, though it seems so obvious now!
One sad thing: An RC-Cryptek can never take a God Shackle :(

Kangodo wrote:
They surely fixed them, perhaps not enough to be tournament stuff.. But anything is better than their current implementation.
Same goes for the Praetorians.

The discount is nice, but I already have 2 Stalkers, 8 Lords, 5 Barges and 40 Immortals.
I do think it's sad we don't see a new model or unit in it.

I only have a Barge and 5 Immortals currently so I might pick one of those sets up.

We aren't getting any new units are we? So the only new model they could put in there would be the Lord and I guess that's a bit redundant with the CCB overlord in there.

Kangodo wrote:
Keeping it as a 0-5 of both seems nice, but then I wonder why we'd ever take them as a regular slot (except for lame tournaments that ban Formations)

If Crypteks are an HQ choice outside of the court formation, you could buy one for a small points game for maybe 50-60 points with wargear.


That Cryptek edition does bring up a big question though: If they can fit all their rules on an A5 deck of cards, why not just sell that deck of cards for seven bucks like the tactical cards?

(Because money)

changemod wrote:
If Crypteks are an HQ choice outside of the court formation, you could buy one for a small points game for maybe 50-60 points with wargear.

That would be a very cheap HQ, giving us more points for other stuff.
Though I really hope our named HQ's are finally getting boosted as I have all but Anrakyr.

That Cryptek edition does bring up a big question though: If they can fit all their rules on an A5 deck of cards, why not just sell that deck of cards for seven bucks like the tactical cards?
(Because money)

Well, they need something to force us to spend an additional 100 euro on a book.
That's less than 5! euro per card, really cheap.. Right?

 ImAGeek wrote:
I only have a Barge and 5 Immortals currently so I might pick one of those sets up.

We aren't getting any new units are we? So the only new model they could put in there would be the Lord and I guess that's a bit redundant with the CCB overlord in there.

Don't forget that Praetorians are also Lychguard.
And Immortals can also be turned into Deathmarks.

Not 100% sure about new models, the Blood Angels had new units that weren't in the set.
But they were, if I remember it correctly, released before the Codex.
Though they could always do something different now.

Blood Angels didn't get any new units though, they just got resculpts.

Anyhow, if we've got a lot of formations and a new FOC here, and the Mephrit FOC and a handful of formations back in Exterminatus... I guess they figure we already have our supplement. Not ideal, but at least it's some extended options.

Not as good as the Blood Angels ended up with from Exterminatus though: The main codex was horribly elites heavy, and between the Archangels Strike Force and various Elites formations you got enough options in Exterminatus to patch that up. At the end of the day if you had both things the only thing you lost out on was Assault Marines as Troops, forcing you to either go unbound or take a generic marines tax from their shiny new tactical box they'd released my what a strange coincidence.

...If they do rebox warriors, can they please at least fix the cheeks attached to sprues issue? That's a nightmare to clean up without damaging the head.

Ooh, that's what I ment
Though they did get "new" units in the Campaign.

@changemod: Not really sure about that.
The Necron inside me is happier with Exterminatus than the Blood Angel-player in me.
I think the Necrons got better Traits, Relics and Formations than the BA.
The BA-Formations seem to be more suited for Apocalypse.

changemod wrote:

...If they do rebox warriors, can they please at least fix the cheeks attached to sprues issue? That's a nightmare to clean up without damaging the head.

And can they be stood up please, not squatting?

I doubt we'll get new Warriors though, unfortunately.

I'm surprised Wraiths are still on 40mm, always thought they were too big for those.

Looking at the picture of the Cryptek edition codex, the top royal court card, as previously mentioned, shows the new lord model, an existing fine-cast lord model and the current Cryptek model.

That suggests that the rumors of a new Cryptek clampak are less likely to be accurate.
That is, unless, they repackaged the same fine-cast model as a plastic.

I suppose it is still possible that we will get a new cryptek model.
Due to the manufacturing lead time, the model may not have been available for the photo shoot (but the new lord model was??).


Also, wouldn't having the Royal Court be a formation of x Lords and Y Crypteks suggest that they would not be a separate HQ choice as well?
Unless this is a Formation with a specific command benefit beyond the ability to allow the members to join other squads.
Under the command benefit there is definitely text but only one paragraph.

Surely, can't be a formation that is expected to work on its own, right?

Kangodo wrote:
Ooh, that's what I ment
Though they did get "new" units in the Campaign.

@changemod: Not really sure about that.
The Necron inside me is happier with Exterminatus than the Blood Angel-player in me.
I think the Necrons got better Traits, Relics and Formations than the BA.
The BA-Formations seem to be more suited for Apocalypse.

Basically, you can ally and Archangels Strike Force or take one of the three terminator, veteran or death company formations and suddenly you have a bunch of Elites already and four Elites slots left in your main detachment.

Blood Angels got a lot of elite slot manipulation, Necrons got three pages of pretty cool rules and three mostly useless ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:

changemod wrote:

...If they do rebox warriors, can they please at least fix the cheeks attached to sprues issue? That's a nightmare to clean up without damaging the head.

And can they be stood up please, not squatting?

I doubt we'll get new Warriors though, unfortunately.

Hunched seems to be the natural Necrontyr posture, though the Overlords can confuse that issue slightly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chad Warden wrote:
I'm surprised Wraiths are still on 40mm, always thought they were too big for those.

Not really: They have quite wide contact points with their base and even on 40mm tend to fall over on the slight slopes Realm of Battle boards have.

I don't mind the hunch that like the Immortals have, but the Warriors are too far I think, and they all look he same, at least the Immortals have different poses.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don't mind the hunch that like the Immortals have, but the Warriors are too far I think, and they all look he same, at least the Immortals have different poses.

Honestly, I found my Warriors way more posable than the Immortals, who are forced to hold their arms in a precise manner to line up the cables connecting to their back.

I even have one guy in each Warrior squad in a close combat pose: Axe blade bayonet raised overhead for a strike.

I just mean the Warriors legs, they're all just stood with their legs spread. At least the Immortal legs are walking and stuff, although I agree the rest of the model is a bitch to pose.

changemod wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Keeping it as a 0-5 of both seems nice, but then I wonder why we'd ever take them as a regular slot (except for lame tournaments that ban Formations)

If Crypteks are an HQ choice outside of the court formation, you could buy one for a small points game for maybe 50-60 points with wargear.


That Cryptek edition does bring up a big question though: If they can fit all their rules on an A5 deck of cards, why not just sell that deck of cards for seven bucks like the tactical cards?

(Because money)

Why does everyone think the Royal Court is a formation? The description clearly states the cards are the UNITS in the codex. DE kept their court unit, no reason to think Necrons' will be changed to a formation.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

changemod wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Keeping it as a 0-5 of both seems nice, but then I wonder why we'd ever take them as a regular slot (except for lame tournaments that ban Formations)

If Crypteks are an HQ choice outside of the court formation, you could buy one for a small points game for maybe 50-60 points with wargear.


That Cryptek edition does bring up a big question though: If they can fit all their rules on an A5 deck of cards, why not just sell that deck of cards for seven bucks like the tactical cards?

(Because money)

Why does everyone think the Royal Court is a formation? The description clearly states the cards are the UNITS in the codex. DE kept their court unit, no reason to think Necrons' will be changed to a formation.

Because there's roughly seven more cards than actually needed to cover all the units and the FOC symbol in the corner is the formation symbol, not the HQ symbol.

changemod wrote:
Basically, you can ally and Archangels Strike Force or take one of the three terminator, veteran or death company formations and suddenly you have a bunch of Elites already and four Elites slots left in your main detachment.

Yeah, but do we want them?
That's like giving Necrons a Detachment that can take 5 HS with a restriction to Doomsday Arks.
The Orbital Intervention also requires THREE units of Terminators, the DC-Formation needs two Dreads, and it continues like that.
The "most interesting" ones are a formation that requires three Stormraven Gunships and the one that needs 30 Veterans in total.
Nevermind, the three Stormravens are from WD...

I also don't like any of the Relics, the Traits are 'meh' and the Formation-rules are okay-ish but way too little for these Apocalypse Formations.
After Champions of Fenris I was really excited, but now I am glad I didn't buy the book.

Now to the Necron-stuff:
Those Relics make me so happy that I almost need to cry.
Nearly all Traits are totally worth it in my opinion.
The Detachment is awesome and I would always take it over a CAD.
The C'tan Formation is incredibly awesome.
The other two are 'meh', a bit too expensive and restrictive (lacks AB's).

So in my opinion, as a Blood Angel ánd Necron-player, this book has more interesting stuff for Necrons than for BA.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Why does everyone think the Royal Court is a formation? The description clearly states the cards are the UNITS in the codex. DE kept their court unit, no reason to think Necrons' will be changed to a formation.

Do you see the two icons in the corner? It's the same as in other books:


It's the logo for a Formation, which leads me to believe (99.9999% sure) that it is a Formation.

130 € for a codex? Have they completely lost their mind? This is just mindnumbingly stupid, even by GW standards. I'm lost for words here.

 Kosake wrote:
130 € for a codex? Have they completely lost their mind? This is just mindnumbingly stupid, even by GW standards. I'm lost for words here.

We're the other special edition ones not that price too? I remember Space Wolves had an even more expensive super duper LE one.

Kangodo wrote:

changemod wrote:
Basically, you can ally and Archangels Strike Force or take one of the three terminator, veteran or death company formations and suddenly you have a bunch of Elites already and four Elites slots left in your main detachment.

Yeah, but do we want them?
That's like giving Necrons a Detachment that can take 5 HS with a restriction to Doomsday Arks.
The Orbital Intervention also requires THREE units of Terminators, the DC-Formation needs two Dreads, and it continues like that.
The "most interesting" ones are a formation that requires three Stormraven Gunships and the one that needs 30 Veterans in total.
Nevermind, the three Stormravens are from WD...

I also don't like any of the Relics, the Traits are 'meh' and the Formation-rules are okay-ish but way too little for these Apocalypse Formations.
After Champions of Fenris I was really excited, but now I am glad I didn't buy the book.

With an allied Archangels force you can take any two choices from Dreadnoughts, Terminators and Veterans, leaving you four slots open for Death Guard and Sangiunary Guard... So yes? It's a fairly ideal solution to the main issue with the codex. The formations are costly point sinks that tie you in to a dedicated theme, but they offer three themes so it's still tools to help out there.

Now to the Necron-stuff:
Those Relics make me so happy that I almost need to cry.
Nearly all Traits are totally worth it in my opinion.
The Detachment is awesome and I would always take it over a CAD.
The C'tan Formation is incredibly awesome.
The other two are 'meh', a bit too expensive and restrictive (lacks AB's).

So in my opinion, as a Blood Angel ánd Necron-player, this book has more interesting stuff for Necrons than for BA.

It's basically Solar Thermesite, C'tan stuff and a traits table with a buff for troops (Kinda forcing you to field at least 30 troops models to be worthwhile, not a huge downside but worth noting in that it limits list variation). It's neat toys, but doesn't fix any serious issues with the base codex and fits into three pages in a large book.

I am going to try my damnedest to get that Cryptek Edition.

This is the only Army I'll buy the special edition for, it's my first love in Warhammer 40k.

I just hope it doesn't sell out!

 Sasori wrote:
I am going to try my damnedest to get that Cryptek Edition.

This is the only Army I'll buy the special edition for, it's my first love in Warhammer 40k.

I just hope it doesn't sell out!

I wouldn't worry about it. Hardback editions of books later released as softcover sell out shockingly fast, but the special edition codices hang around for a while.

You can still get the Blood Angels one, for example.

changemod wrote:
With an allied Archangels force you can take any two choices from Dreadnoughts, Terminators and Veterans, leaving you four slots open for Death Guard and Sangiunary Guard... So yes? It's a fairly ideal solution to the main issue with the codex. The formations are costly point sinks that tie you in to a dedicated theme, but they offer three themes so it's still tools to help out there.

I always compare it to the Fenris-book.
A Detachment with 6 Elite-slots and +1WS on a lot of units.
Their Formations are pretty small and cheap, having an average of around 3-4 units with great rules.
I hoped that BA/Necron-formations would be like that too, small additions you add to your army.
But now they turned out to be entire armies on their own.

Blood Angels do not really have a problem in their Elite-slot, since you probably wouldn't take four elite-slots anyway.
And if you did, it wouldn't be Veterans or Dreads.
The issue lies more in the HQ-slot, now that Priests and Chaplains are HQ's and they replace the Librarians and SC's I always loved to take.
I would have been so happy with the CotGW-Detachment, giving me 4 HQ and 8 Elites. Too bad they need to be Space Wolves-Faction.

It's basically Solar Thermesite, C'tan stuff and a traits table with a buff for troops (Kinda forcing you to field at least 30 troops models to be worthwhile, not a huge downside but worth noting in that it limits list variation). It's neat toys, but doesn't fix any serious issues with the base codex and fits into three pages in a large book.

Let's not forget the amazing Edge of Eternity and the God Shackle.
So far, from different fora, I have seen more excited Necron-players than Blood Angel-players.
That is basically what I am saying: The Necron in me is happier than the BA, even though the 60 euro is still too much for only three pages of Necron-stuff.

I wouldn't call it a limitation.
People with minimal troops are better off with the CAD, while people with large Troops gain a lot of value out of the Detachment.
It gives a viable option that really promotes an already popular build.
Stuff like that is what I would like to see more: "Oh, you like AV-13 lists? Here, have a Detachment that helps you!"

Kangodo wrote:
Let's not forget the amazing Edge of Eternity and the God Shackle.

God Shackle is C'tan stuff.

As for the Edge: It's mostly useless unless you use the"Always Hits on 2+" interpretation. Hitting someone before they can use a strength 10 weapon is nice, but how often is that going to come up when you're not in a challenge?

I thought you referred to the Formation
Well, I use the "All hits are Precision Hits"-interpretation.
It allows me to kill the Sergeant in a Challenge and allocate the remaining wounds to the IC with a Powerfist, or hidden Powerfists against certain armies.

Perhaps I value it more because I also play BA and often fight BT and Orks.
ID'ing two Nobs with Power Klaws can really save the day for my CCB.

I value these three Relics much higher than "PE that costs you an arm and a leg", "possible ID against MC's", "Ignore SitW", "Poison immune" and the Baelsor.
The best of them is probably the Poisoned Boltgun.

Boxset is right at 20% off the price of the models or like 5% off if you don't include the lychguard/praetorians. If it's available as a normal retailer item and you can get another 20-25% off it's a pretty solid deal for the box set. Especially when 2 is likely to net you a nice 1,500pt force depending on the new point values. Pretty solid actually.

changemod wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Let's not forget the amazing Edge of Eternity and the God Shackle.

God Shackle is C'tan stuff.

As for the Edge: It's mostly useless unless you use the"Always Hits on 2+" interpretation. Hitting someone before they can use a strength 10 weapon is nice, but how often is that going to come up when you're not in a challenge?

With Edge of Eternity, you can use it on a barge lord and sweep attack at 2+ with precision strikes, killing the powerfist/melta bomb Sargent every time.. Well... at least for now.

My cup runneth over.