Necron release rumours (prices and pics in first post)

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**ClockworkZion**

Tokhuah wrote:
But not necesarily in the tournament aspect of the game because it has nothing to do with the fluff.

While true, the people writing the fluff now aren't the same ones writing the rules.

**nflagey**

oooh, my bad then, it's true that I usually do not see the *serious* tournaments as part of this game as I'm not into this aspect at all ... mea culpa
I would agree with the general feeling that GW may not show any interest in those tournaments, though I am convinced they support the competitive/friendly side of the game
after all, 40k/wfb are games and a winner there should be at the end of a battle
I know this might be an eternal debate, sorry to have jumped on it

**changemod**

The general assumption from Games Workshop is that you're going to collect and paint an army because you like it, then play games with it rather than that you analyse out a power build with no care for the theme of the army like you find all over the place at these big tournament scenes.

Given that it's a hobby where you need to spend about a thousand bucks and over a hundred hours to complete an army, this probably isn't an unfair representation of the average customer base.

**nflagey**

Changemod: you said it much better than me

**davethepak**

changemod wrote:
The general assumption from Games Workshop is that you're going to collect and paint an army because you like it, then play games with it rather than that you analyse out a power build with no care for the theme of the army like you find all over the place at these big tournament scenes.

Given that it's a hobby where you need to spend about a thousand bucks and over a hundred hours to complete an army, this probably isn't an unfair representation of the average customer base.

Good point.

I can also say, that being excited about playing games (i.e. a good rules) is an MOTIVATOR to build and paint an army, while bad rules (i.e. no fun to keep losing) is a DEMOTIVATOR to build and paint an army.

Back to the rumors -

While it sounds like we don't have a lot of new stuff in the book (oh, please, make flayed ones useful) the end of year nid units in WD really helped inject new life into the bugs, so here is hoping necrons may get new units later in the year.

Here is hoping it has good internal balance and a lot of solid options.

Would be nice to brush the dust off a bunch of units...

**bodazoka**

I am hoping mostly for a good change with the destroyers, they just look really cool. Having 3 x unit's of these in your army with D.Lords leading them would look sick.

**Galorian**

Requizen wrote:
Via Warseer:

A few more info after a better reading. And keep in mind I translate things so in the English version of the WD things may sound different, so please don't go berserk if after I say "Dance of Death" it's in reality Death Dance, Deadly Dance, Mortal Tango or Fatal Dubsteb in your WD.

Regarding the Decurion, I find the way it works for some of these formations not that clear. Formations are presented in boxes linked by lines. You can take 1 to 10 of the optional formations, and since there are only 9 total it's obvious you can take some more than one. But the way it's presented I'm actually wondering if you can take anything you want multiple time, or only the first three ones (which are the Destroyers, Praetorian and the Canoptek one). In a way it makes sense to not spam things like Trans Ctans or Obelisk, but in another it makes no sense to be limited to a single Deathmark unit yet spam things like Praetorians... WD, why you no clear?

Also WD refers to the Decurion itself as giving bonuses to the units composing it in addition to what the Formations do, but I never managed to find these bonuses listed anywhere.

Some precisions:
- I previously said the Canoptek formation includes 1 Spyder, but later in a pic it shows said formation with 1 UNIT of Spyders. So I don't know which page is right.
- I said the Praetorian formation included a Stalker, but actually after rereading it it's an UNIT of Stalkers.
- Heavy Destroyers are indeed their one unit now.
- Deathmarks and Flayed are indeed only 1 unit.
- Dommscythes are 2 to 4.
- Royal court MUST include at least one Lord and one Cryptek.
- Obyron can replace a Lord.
- Illuminator and Orikan can replace a Cryptek.

Regarding the CTans, WD seems to really make a difference between Shards of the Deceiver, Nightbringer, Trans CTan and the Vault. This is how their power work:
- During the shooting phase, chose an enemy unit.
- Roll a D6 or pick a card to determine the attack it suffers.
- The randomness represents the CTan basically doing whatever he wants when released on a battlefield.
- Each attack comes in 2 Flavors.
- The first one, supposedly already devastating, is used by the two shards and the Trans CTan.
- The second one, that appears to be the powerful Apocalypse effect, is for the Vault.

A bit worried for C'Tans now....

Well... it IS fluffy...

Hopefully it'll be a "random flavor of terrible death" kind of thing where you can be assured that the target is going to get a pounding whatever the result.

**angelofvengeance**

And thus, the curse of the Ward-dex is broken... Sounds fun but again- I'll wait for the codex is out.

**Tokhuah**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tokhuah wrote:
But not necesarily in the tournament aspect of the game because it has nothing to do with the fluff.

While true, the people writing the fluff now aren't the same ones writing the rules.

Agreed. It is amusing to read fluff about a devastating attack from something that in game could not kill more than a half-dozen space marines.

I would not count on a power bump from anything not getting a model box, so dig out those Destroyers boys and get ready for some mods!

**NecronLord3**

Red Corsair wrote:
NecronLord3 wrote:
As a corporation they don't care. The people writing the books and selling the models are acutely aware of how the units work in tournaments.

AHAHAHA thats gold... Wait... were you being serious?

Yes I am. There are different departments, teams and elements of GW as a company. Often there is a case of the right hand having no idea what the left hand is doing, even amongst those designing the rule books. It's a case of mismanagement but it does not mean that tournaments are entirely irrelevant to elements of GW.

**Red Corsair**

Except that in the absence of actually being a member first hand, we only have their actions to judge them by. Their actions say they don't care/support tournaments. Saying they care but are incompetent doesn't cut it.

**WarlordRob117**

Red Corsair wrote:
Except that in the absence of actually being a member first hand, we only have their actions to judge them by. Their actions say they don't care/support tournaments. Saying they care but are incompetent doesn't cut it.

I agree, but when their actions give actual prize support to FLGS and track purchases during events held for 40K/fantasy, thats kind of actually opposite of what you are saying.

**NecronLord3**

Red Corsair wrote:
Except that in the absence of actually being a member first hand, we only have their actions to judge them by. Their actions say they don't care/support tournaments. Saying they care but are incompetent doesn't cut it.

So when they provide prize support to events like the LVO or are in communication with Adepticon about the game and rules inquirers, these actions are what I judge them by. Do they support the tournaments like they did in the past? No but they created the competitve tournament scene and have allowed the independent events runners to take over. It's a resource that they don't have to commit any energy or time and effort to that is stronger today without them than it was 10 years ago when they were the ones doing it in some ways exclusively by themselves.

**Henshini**

Giving out support to tournaments is not the same as writing a rule set that functions well in tournaments.

**Nilok**

The left hand doesn't know or even agree with what the right hand is doing.

**Kid_Kyoto**

davethepak wrote:

While it sounds like we don't have a lot of new stuff in the book (oh, please, make flayed ones useful) the end of year nid units in WD really helped inject new life into the bugs, so here is hoping necrons may get new units later in the year.

Is this what we're reduced to? Resigned that new codexes will suck but hoping maybe later we can buy a suppliment that might be good?

He says he'll stop drinking and then maybe he'll get a job and stop hitting me...

**Accolade**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
davethepak wrote:

While it sounds like we don't have a lot of new stuff in the book (oh, please, make flayed ones useful) the end of year nid units in WD really helped inject new life into the bugs, so here is hoping necrons may get new units later in the year.

Is this what we're reduced to? Resigned that new codexes will suck but hoping maybe later we can buy a suppliment that might be good?

I remember when the switch from $35 to $50 for the new codexes was a crazy and infuriating change. Now you can pay double that to get a couple of formations that give you free special rules to make your units not suck as much.

**Red Corsair**

Henshini wrote:
Giving out support to tournaments is not the same as writing a rule set that functions well in tournaments.

Exactly, this promotes sales more then a healthy tournament set. Look, they are aware of events that HEAVILY alter their rules to be playable competitively while sitting on their hands and not FAQ'ing even the most obvious errors.... Like I said, their action demonstrate they could care less about tournament play.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
davethepak wrote:

While it sounds like we don't have a lot of new stuff in the book (oh, please, make flayed ones useful) the end of year nid units in WD really helped inject new life into the bugs, so here is hoping necrons may get new units later in the year.

Is this what we're reduced to? Resigned that new codexes will suck but hoping maybe later we can buy a suppliment that might be good?

He says he'll stop drinking and then maybe he'll get a job and stop hitting me...

KK, don't ever stop

you are easily my favorite poster on dakka

**WarlordRob117**

Red Corsair wrote:
Henshini wrote:
Giving out support to tournaments is not the same as writing a rule set that functions well in tournaments.

Exactly, this promotes sales more then a healthy tournament set. Look, they are aware of events that HEAVILY alter their rules to be playable competitively while sitting on their hands and not FAQ'ing even the most obvious errors.... Like I said, their action demonstrate they could care less about tournament play.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
davethepak wrote:

While it sounds like we don't have a lot of new stuff in the book (oh, please, make flayed ones useful) the end of year nid units in WD really helped inject new life into the bugs, so here is hoping necrons may get new units later in the year.

Is this what we're reduced to? Resigned that new codexes will suck but hoping maybe later we can buy a suppliment that might be good?

He says he'll stop drinking and then maybe he'll get a job and stop hitting me...

KK, don't ever stop you are easily my favorite poster on dakka

Im sorry you guys feel this way then, because this rule set is not hard to follow in a tournament setting. We have events all over the globe for 40K that not only help contribute to the sales but actually require a fair amount of support to get off the ground. Not to mention that supplements, while adding to the money machine, also give a competative edge to any army...
Even in this case with the new necron stuff coming out... yes its going to be a cash grab, but thats how commericalism works.

If this gets you that bent out of shape then I would suggest another hobby because this stuff isnt going to change, and its not just GW that does it anymore either.

**Nyghoma**

Is this what we're reduced to? Resigned that new codexes will suck but hoping maybe later we can buy a supplement that might be good?

Outside of detachment taxes, or the necessity to buy multiples of the same expensive kits, these rumors are quite tame. I'm excited about the new army load outs and the C'tan dynamics.

I think it's brilliant if GW actually made the Vault stronger than the Trans. The Vault is a bigger target (which would make more sense), and it sells more kits (good for GW, not for the consumer). Any tech that can hold and harness something as potent as a Shard, should have a devastating effect. Hopefully it will have wounds instead of HP, or at least be a mighty bulwark/ignore melta/lance with high AV (ala Aquila) for palatability.

The randomness of the powers also makes more sense, in sync with cannon. As long as all the results are equally savage, brutal, and demoralizing to your opponent, the nuances in the randomness may be ancillary. This makes C'tans a bit "Rara Avis". Rumored MSS changes leave me less than comfortable.

I feel like our current 'dex lacked upgrade options on the unit level. Meaning, other than HQs, we were/are pigeonholed in inflexible, rigid design. We don't have the versatility of upgrade options that say, Space Marine sergeants have, or any Imperium vehicle for that matter. Not very forthcoming for a race older than time, and the alleged axiomatic vertex of technology and doomsday devices.

He says he'll stop drinking and then maybe he'll get a job and stop hitting me...

Shhheeeesh...ever see femdom porn? Women love that smut!!! It a predisposition, hardwired into their very fabric!

Just joshing...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Accolade wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
davethepak wrote:

While it sounds like we don't have a lot of new stuff in the book (oh, please, make flayed ones useful) the end of year nid units in WD really helped inject new life into the bugs, so here is hoping necrons may get new units later in the year.

Is this what we're reduced to? Resigned that new codexes will suck but hoping maybe later we can buy a suppliment that might be good?

I remember when the switch from $35 to $50 for the new codexes was a crazy and infuriating change. Now you can pay double that to get a couple of formations that give you free special rules to make your units not suck as much.

Welcome to the Free Market.

That's what happens when your company goes public.

Until we have a hardcore, philanthropist golden goose wargamer pinch out a gem, we will all be succinctly acquiescent.

**nflagey**

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
This is from the new White Dwarf.
The Decurion Detachment is a new way of organizing Necrons. Formations are broken down into three groups, Command, Core, and Auxiliary.

Command
Royal Court (0-1 per Reclamation Legion)
*1 Overlord/ Imotekh
*1-3 Lords
*1-3 Crypteks

Core
Reclamation Legion 1+
*1 Overlord
*0-2 Lychguard
*1-4 Immortals
*2-8 Necron Warriors
*1-3 Tomb Blades
*0-3 Monoliths

Auxiliary 1-10 choices per Reclamation Legion
Destroyer Cult
*Destroyer Lord
*3 Destroyers
*0-1 Heavy Destroyers

Judicator Battalion
*1 Triarch Stalkers
*2 Triarch Praetorians

Annihilation Nexus
*2 Annihilation Barges
*1 Doomsday Ark

Flayed Ones
*1 Flayed Ones

Deathmarks
*1 Deathmarks

Canoptek Harvest
*1 Canoptek Spyder
*1 Canoptek Wraiths
*1 Canoptek Scarabs

Star-God
*1 C'tan Shard of the Deceiver, Nightbringer, Transcedent C'tan, or Tesseract Vault

Living Tomb
*1 Obelisk
*0-2 Monoliths

Deathbringer Flight
* 2-4 Doom Scythes

**Drakmord**

So if you take a Royal Court, you still need another Overlord as part of the Core group? That's how it reads to me at least.

I also wonder if Phaeron will do something different now with the Decurion formation giving a Relentless bubble.

**H.B.M.C.**

AduroT wrote:
Oh man, I'd be all over some sweet Necron dice!

Some glowy green dice would be fun.

BlaxicanX wrote:
nflagey wrote:
Oh so *you* think someone writing about fungus-based organisms launching invasions while fighting with each other, or about metallic skeleton with reminiscence of ancient Egypt, or about Ridley Scott's Alien like creatures, ... do not care about how the game is played, including tournaments?
Do you know what a non-sequitur is?

I'd first question if he even understood what he wrote. That was impressive!

**davethepak**

Can we PLEASE take the "they care", "no they don't", "yes, they do", "No they don't" to another thread?

Please?

Thank you in advance.

Now, regarding these latest rumors - very interesting.

The grouping by ....type (canoptek, praetorian, etc.) might have some merit, if the new units have ANY kind of synergy.

I love the ctan personally, and really hope they are viable on the table top. Supposedly they were in the WD battlereport, do we have any info ANYWHERE on the specific powers?

**changemod**

Dangit, if the Destroyer Cult is any good I'll want to run it because Destroyers are cool....but I only have 5 and 3 heavy because obviously I wouldn't want more than one unit with the current codex.

Oh well, at least I'm capable of most of the other ones I have any reason to care about.

**Anpu-adom**

DavePak,
I agree. Not only does it make a fair amount of sense... and hopefully there will be synergy within the Auxiliary Choices. Praetorians with their Stalker. Deathmarks on their own. Canoptek's together, etc. Fits better with the fluff... for example, Zahndrek didn't use Deathmarks. Someone out of favor with the Silent King wouldn't be able to call upon the Praetorians, etc. Love the Destroyer Cult.

Just to be clear, though... people are saying that this is the 'Formation' rather than the CAD. Right? I can't see anyone taking too many of the Auxilary Choices in a 'normal' sized 40k game. Using current points totals, the core and command are over 500 points, bare bones. It's closer to 1,000 points usefully equipped. I guess that would give you room for up to 2 auxiliary choices.

Not that I'm believing any of this until the book is in my hands. Gamestore confirmed a call from GW saying that it'll be the 31st.

**Gunther**

This seems inflexible and geared for large games as each of the groups is 300+ points except for flayed ones or deathmarks.
I suppose the FOC will remain better suited for small games say 1500 or less.

It is interesting that the core group includes tomb blades, lychguard and monoliths but not wraiths, scarabs, ABs.
Looks like the codex plays entirely different than today or we are seeing the on-set of the nerf beating.

Why would anyone need/want to take 3 monoliths under any circumstances? Necronium Lance?

**BlackArmour**

well ..... one of the Best Blood Angels Formations requires nearly 1000 points worth of models just to gain the useful benefits from it.

Formations like that cause a double win for GW its both a way to make the formations manageable and not broken annnnnd make you buy models you might not have in order to use them.

**DarknessEternal**

davethepak wrote:
Can we PLEASE take the "they care", "no they don't", "yes, they do", "No they don't" to another thread?

Considering it's being participated in by a Mod, probably not.

Enjoy dakka.

**Accolade**

Show me on the doll where the bad mods touched you.

It's sad that there will (probably) not be any more releases for Necrons with this new codex; they're definitely getting the Grey Knights treatment. Although this release is important in that it marks the complete transition of softcovers into hardcover books, so I'm quite curious what will come next. It shouldn't take that long since this release was fairly minimal in new content.