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 Grimdark wrote:

Never really liked flayed ones, never got into the ' they are crazy crazy space robots'

They aren't. It's reductio ad absurdum. All Necrons absolutely hate any living being or force of life in the entire universe and aim at fully eradicating life. Flayed Ones are not "crazy" (they are mindless robots after all), they are just one aspect of said hate for life and use the skins of their enemies in order to scare them - which is nothing but a very basic tactic and thus a good, rational idea.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Grimdark wrote:

Never really liked flayed ones, never got into the ' they are crazy crazy space robots'

They aren't. It's reductio ad absurdum. All Necrons absolutely hate any living being or force of life in the entire universe and aim at fully eradicating life. Flayed Ones are not "crazy" (they are mindless robots after all), they are just one aspect of said hate for life and use the skins of their enemies in order to scare them - which is nothing but a very basic tactic and thus a good, rational idea.

Yes they are. They're Necron who have been infected with the Flayer virus which drives them insane.

Yeah, the third edition book introduced a lot of cool things, but most of the story was crap except for the Nightbringer and Deceiver stuff.

Shame we lost Pariahs, but otherwise 5th edition was right to return to the original concept.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Grimdark wrote:

Never really liked flayed ones, never got into the ' they are crazy crazy space robots'

They aren't. It's reductio ad absurdum. All Necrons absolutely hate any living being or force of life in the entire universe and aim at fully eradicating life. Flayed Ones are not "crazy" (they are mindless robots after all), they are just one aspect of said hate for life and use the skins of their enemies in order to scare them - which is nothing but a very basic tactic and thus a good, rational idea.

Actually they were always crazy, even in the 3rd ed book.
In the 3rd ed codex, Flayed Ones were Necrons who wanted to be organic again, so they ripped the skins off of corpses (or the living!) in an attempt to become alive again. An error with their programming, if you will.
The fact that they scared the crap out of everything that sees them was a side effect.

The Flayer Virus is a 5th ed creation. The Flayer Virus was a "curse" placed upon the necrons by a C'tan, which gave them an insatiable hunger for flesh.

Just curious, but were flayed ones ever considered competitive? I never played a game with the previous codex (even though it was the first GW thing I ever purchased).

I don't know about competitive, but I've never owned any or used any. Don't strike me as being worth it.

I always found them subpar. Even in 3rd they weren't great. Immortals were always the better elite choice.
Which is a pity because I love the (3rd ed) models. They had a sort of Freddy Krueger vibe going for them, which works well with the eldritch murderous nightmare theme of the 3rd book.

The 5th ed Flayed Ones look like something from Dias de los Muertos. Hobos, to be exact.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Grimdark wrote:

Never really liked flayed ones, never got into the ' they are crazy crazy space robots'

They aren't. It's reductio ad absurdum. All Necrons absolutely hate any living being or force of life in the entire universe and aim at fully eradicating life. Flayed Ones are not "crazy" (they are mindless robots after all), they are just one aspect of said hate for life and use the skins of their enemies in order to scare them - which is nothing but a very basic tactic and thus a good, rational idea.

It's not a reductio ad absurdum. I was not trying to make fun of them or belittling them either.
They just strike me as too OTT with the Flayer Virus from 5th.

From your words I suppose you are a Trucron player.
I'm not, but as necrons players we can chill out and make fun of everyone else in the settings because Necrons are awesome robots and everybody else is not.

 Fafnir13 wrote:
Just curious, but were flayed ones ever considered competitive? I never played a game with the previous codex (even though it was the first GW thing I ever purchased).

Competitive? I don't think they were even useful...

Yes that is in fact the Deceiver. Now how about the text on the left hand side that everyone is clamouring for?

 Grimdark wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Grimdark wrote:

Never really liked flayed ones, never got into the ' they are crazy crazy space robots'

They aren't. It's reductio ad absurdum. All Necrons absolutely hate any living being or force of life in the entire universe and aim at fully eradicating life. Flayed Ones are not "crazy" (they are mindless robots after all), they are just one aspect of said hate for life and use the skins of their enemies in order to scare them - which is nothing but a very basic tactic and thus a good, rational idea.

It's not a reductio ad absurdum. I was not trying to make fun of them or belittling them either.
They just strike me as too OTT with the Flayer Virus from 5th.

From your words I suppose you are a Trucron player.
I'm not, but as necrons players we can chill out and make fun of everyone else in the settings because Necrons are awesome robots and everybody else is not.

They've always been crazy though, truecron or not.

changemod wrote:
Yeah, the third edition book introduced a lot of cool things, but most of the story was crap except for the Nightbringer and Deceiver stuff.

Shame we lost Pariahs, but otherwise 5th edition was right to return to the original concept.

You're making it sound as if there was such a different concept for the Necrons between the 3rd and 5th editions... I mean, before the 3rd edition Codex there was hardly anything. Then the third came in with all that C'tan stuff and hatred for life. Now the 5th one tried to create a bit more character, but sadly enough removed some of the coolest stuff from the 3rd edition. I mean: bro-punch?

Looking at old Flayed One stats now...

Okay, so they have one less attack, but a 3+ save, initiative 4 (Yes, Necrons were allowed to have Initiative scores worth a damn if combat specialists once) and an ability that makes you take a leadership test, and if you fail they basically have Invisibility in combat. They can also take an upgrade that gives them a gauss-like effect against vehicles.

Squad size 4-10.

Otherwise the same. An improvement and I'd take them over the modern ones... But they're also five points more expensive and thus not actually particularly worthwhile. Could do pretty good against Orks, I guess.

I gotto say that I like the idea of the formation and the set units in each grouping. It does remind me of Space Marine 2nd Ed (Epic), which was a system I liked. I wish they'd do one for Tyranids based upon the size Hive Node/Hexagon structure. That was inspired.

Only downside is mandatory Tomb Blades. They're the herpiest, derpiest models in the Necron range (yes, even worse than the FineCost Flayed Ones).

 ImAGeek wrote:
I do like that Lord model though.

Yes he is quite nice. And we finally have a model with an actual scythe.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I do like that Lord model though.

Yes he is quite nice. And we finally have a model with an actual scythe.

They've always had Scythes. A Warscythe is an actual polearm and is straightened out because the farm tool would be hilariously impractical.

Which actually makes it kinda funny that the Edge of Eternity gets Precision Strikes for being an optimal shape for killing wheat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Only downside is mandatory Tomb Blades. They're the herpiest, derpiest models in the Necron range (yes, even worse than the FineCost Flayed Ones).

You can convert Annihilation Barge pilots into them, if it helps. Mine turned out pretty good when I did that.

changemod wrote:
They've always had Scythes.

changemod wrote:
... is straightened out...

So... not a scythe then.

I know they've always been called "War Scythes", but they have never been actual scythes. Just bladed pole-arms. As for being impractical... who cares? This is 40K. That and, well, Zasalamel. Look him up.

changemod wrote:
You can convert Annihilation Barge pilots into them, if it helps. Mine turned out pretty good when I did that.

I just have general problems with "robots driving robots". Destroyers made sense as their lower halves were converted into vehicles. Why would the Necrons ever need to "pilot" anything. Their big walkers should be autonomous. So should their fliers. Their transport should be a mobile portal, not Trade Federation Droid dispensers. The Command Barge I can live with, as it's the Lord standing on one as it flies, but it shouldn't have those dipppy crew members with their feet waving in the air.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

changemod wrote:
They've always had Scythes.

changemod wrote:
... is straightened out...

So... not a scythe then.

I know they've always been called "War Scythes", but they have never been actual scythes. Just bladed pole-arms.

Which is what a Warscythe is, as I just tried to tell you.

They're an actual, real life, historical weapon. Most widely used in Poland.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

changemod wrote:
They've always had Scythes.

changemod wrote:
... is straightened out...

So... not a scythe then.

I know they've always been called "War Scythes", but they have never been actual scythes. Just bladed pole-arms. As for being impractical... who cares? This is 40K. That and, well, Zasalamel. Look him up.

changemod wrote:
You can convert Annihilation Barge pilots into them, if it helps. Mine turned out pretty good when I did that.

I just have general problems with "robots driving robots". Destroyers made sense as their lower halves were converted into vehicles. Why would the Necrons ever need to "pilot" anything. Their big walkers should be autonomous. So should their fliers. Their transport should be a mobile portal, not Trade Federation Droid dispensers. The Command Barge I can live with, as it's the Lord standing on one as it flies, but it shouldn't have those dipppy crew members with their feet waving in the air.

It sort of makes sense. They still have their warmachines after biotransference, and it's cheaper to just put pilots in the existing warmachines instead of modifying them to be completely autonomous.
That said, I do have some gripes with a couple of the designs.

First gripe - The barges. Why two pilots? For what reason does it need two?
Second Gripe - The exposed cockpit in the flyer. It's not open topped, and it looks stupid. It's basically a glaring feth-me hole.

I would also like to see some "post-biotransference" vehicle designs, fully automated, or at least integrated with a necron.

changemod wrote:
Which is what a Warscythe is, as I just tried to tell you.

They're an actual, real life, historical weapon. Most widely used in Poland.

I see.

Nevertheless, rule-of-cool means that a scythe that looks like a scythe is way cooler than a scythe that doesn't look like a scythe.

Yeah what's up with just the picture of the Deciever and no rules.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

It sort of makes sense. They still have their warmachines after biotransference, and it's cheaper to just put pilots in the existing warmachines instead of modifying them to be completely autonomous.
That said, I do have some gripes with a couple of the designs.

First gripe - The barges. Why two pilots? For what reason does it need two?

Annie Barge has a Pilot and a Gunner. Catacomb Command Barge has a pilot and a guy who wishes his Phaeron would stop messing around back there and let them put the gun back on.

I would also like to see some "post-biotransference" vehicle designs, fully automated, or at least integrated with a necron.

Take a Dreadnought base, and stick the Annihilation Barge onto it upside down with no pilots.

Here is hoping the book and units are good.

Overall, the Decurion thing looks a bit....well, unless all the units are good, you are paying the "praetorian tax" on many things.
(paying for crap units to ride along with the units you wanted).

Also, wow, who ever thought relentless was useful on incredibly subpar assault units. I think they got stuck on the word "relentless" sounding cool for an army of implacable robots....
Don't get me wrong, wraiths with heavy / rapid fire weapons would be awesome.

The fact someone things that relentless and move through cover are significantly valuable for necrons does not bode well for the decurions.
(when you have to rationalize the rule in the text "now just wait, it does not suck as bad as you think...." maybe you picked the wrong USR...).

Hopefully too many things won't get the trygon treatment (ask a nid player) and I ctan will be usable again.

Here is hoping.

As noted by changemod:



I guess I am one of the few Necron players who does not like this new version of the OL...

Halberds, glaives and spears are all scythes now. Nice.

I would like to see a version that is shooting off energies, sort of like the Transcendent C'tan, not a middle ages farming implement.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Can you still take ghost arks though?

Restrictions=none

So assuming they stay dedicated transports (which I assume they would be considering they aren't in the robot flow chart) then every unit that can take one normally can take one in the formation

This is exciting. I can see myself expanding my crons a flow chart box at a time. I'm not even fussed about the new rules, until a month ago we had no unique detachments or formations so having a new way to build my army makes me light up

A Scythe is not a halberd and a halberd is not a scythe. None of whom are comparable to a spear.

A scythe used in warfare was also called a Fauchard and the difference between a scythe and a glaive was that the cutting edge was concave. They saw widespread use as well as they were cheap and easy to fashion with some simple changes to the farming implement.

A halberd is significantly different to both of them consisting instead of a blade, an axe head on top and a hook/hammer.

1524 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair

Fighting with Scythes.

...........................................................

Anyway - we normally get rule leaks after the WD release right? I've got 3 AB's and a CCB, waiting to see just how badly we get hit with the nerf bat.

Damn. That flow chart is making me want to start a Necron force too...but have too many "evil" armies already. I kinda hope they make a chart like that for all the armies really.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Damn. That flow chart is making me want to start a Necron force too...but have too many "evil" armies already. I kinda hope they make a chart like that for all the armies really.

It's a flow chart for what looks like to be a super formation. So if others get super formations they might see something similar.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
but have too many "evil" armies already.

How many Imperium of Man armies do you have?

Kind of curious how Tourney's are gonna respond to that "big" formation.